English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2015-11-19 (page 2 of 4)

« first day (1834 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3081 days later) »

1:00 AM

wait... how did caster/castel go to chester. THat's a change that happened in OF to MF, 'ca-' -> 'che-'

The names are confusing.

> Coptic Egyptian appeared in the fourth century AD and survived as a living language until the sixteenth century AD, when European scholars traveled to Egypt to learn it from native speakers during the Renaissance. It probably survived in the Egyptian countryside as a spoken language for several centuries after that. The Bohairic dialect of Coptic is still used by the Egyptian Christian Churches.

@Mitch Considering that was already ceaster in OE, then perhaps that would explain it?

oh. right. so the same rule popped up in different contexts/times?

Mmm.

Good question, I see your point now.

But it may not be the same change.

right.

It may be cea → che.

1:03 AM

oh.

And in fact it did not always become che.

Cf Leicester.

ka -> kya -> cha ?

Why the yod?

I don't know how OE came to ceaster anyway.

@Cerberus I think that's ME -> ModE

OK.

So what was Leicester in OE?

And in ME?

1:04 AM

@Cerberus that's what I interpret 'cea-' as 'kya-'

Hmm OK.

@Cerberus 'ley tshester'

That is how it was pronounced?

Cf. also Lancaster.

so inch, chester, street, any others?

> [OE. ceaster:—*ceæster:—*cæster:—prehist. OE. *cæstra (5–6th c.) fem., a. L. castra pl. neuter, ‘camp’, often applied to places in Britain which had been originally Roman encampments. (For the phonology, cf. Sievers Ags. Gram. 1886, §75. 1.)
This is one of the best ascertained of the Latin words adopted by the Angles and Saxons during the conquest of Britain. Still existing as the proper name, or part of the name, of many places. In Cumbria, Lancashire, Yorkshire, and some counties south of these, it appears as -caster, without palatalization. The history of the form written -cester, of w…

1:08 AM

be-donka-donk

So you mentioned palatalisation.

We should consult Sievers.

who is Sievers?

it's surprising that German doesn't also have a 'Kaster' type word.

> From above: (For the phonology, cf. Sievers Ags. Gram. 1886, §75. 1.)

given its roman occupation (at least in the west and south

like bavaria

Only a tiny part was occupied, and probably for much shorter time?

1:11 AM

Ags. = altgermanisches?

In Dutch, we have -trecht and -tricht and -drecht from traiectum in city names.

@Mitch Ah, probably!

the germans ruined everything for the latins.

@Mitch (I was thinking something Latin...)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Good evening

@Cerberus I can't think in Latin. all those endings.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 hey

1:24 AM

Good evening.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Have you heard about the Pushbullet débâcle?

@Mitch When will it end?

@Cerberus not soon enough

I remember when taking french class, you get to the point where you dream in the foreign language it's not foreign anymore.

Yeah, kind of.

Or daydream.

Anyway, I remember this dream I had, and it was in French. But I was doing so badly...I couldn't say anything.

in the dream.

because it was in French.

Understandable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I haven't heard about the pushbullet debacle.....

1:28 AM

and I couldn't remember any french words.

so I couldn't think anything

I not seldom catch myself explaining something to someone in a foreign language in my head, when I'm e.g. biking to work.

It may be a language I barely speak.

Like French or Latin.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The developer promised two years ago that he wouldn't put existing features from the free version behind a paywall.

lots of thought isn't linguistic at all.

Have I made that point here before?

You can guess what he did this week. And how people reacted.

@Mitch Probably, and I agree.

for what software?

Pushbullet lets you effortlessly send notes, links, files, anything from your PC to your phone, and vice versa.

1:30 AM

@Cerberus oh ha ha it was some kids.

And it's push, so it happens instantly.

I'm getting sick of the need for software for things that should just be done as a matter of course nowadays.

all this talk of 'the cloud'. it should by now just be

@Mitch I often recite the first couple of lines from the Odyssey in my mind when I can't sleep. I noticed that I can continue to do so while thinking about completely unrelated things, but I can't think in a language while "reciting".

whatever it is accessible everywhere without having to think about it.

it's effing 2015 fer crissakes.

Yeah.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:32 AM

I hardly call that a debacle. They have bills to pay. They could have, e.g., just shut down the service.

You can get some of that by installing extra software.

@Cerberus ?? I can't do anything else while reciting

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or they could have put additional features in the Pro version, not existing features. Besides, the dev said it cost him about €50/month to keep the service running.

@Mitch Not even walking?

@Cerberus oh sure, physical things.

Or imagining the colour red?

1:34 AM

hm... sure I can do that and think words

Is there a text or poem of which you know a few lines by heart?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

€50/month is surely only the hosting fees, and that seems implausible. What about the developer time? QA? Marketing? Translations?

@Mitch Now recite a couple of lines in your mind and switch between red and green for each line.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It's his own number, and he didn't say hosting: he said to keep the service running. But anyway, even if it were €1000, I don't begrudge him an income from his software. But he should not have removed existing features from the free version, that's a no no.

but I can't, say, solve a queadratic equation and sing a song at the same time.

hard enough to listen at the same time.

Because math is language?

Or because it is difficult to do?

How about playing a game like Threes or 2048 while singing a song?

Or driving while talking?

It makes it harder, but it is possible.

1:37 AM

yeah I thought that too but ...

The linguistic and geometric "parts" of our brain can be used simultaneously, to some extent.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Enh. He made a promise he couldn't keep. Or he changed his mind based on new information. I can see that free users are disappointed, but.... I have little sympathy.

but thinking two different things...that's hard...how about visualizing a pathway and reciting?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I didn't think you would.

But either way I think it is clear that many users really hate it when you remove existing features, unless it's a beta app.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Sure.

1:39 AM

@Mitch You think visualising and doing are different in this respect?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But unless they paid for those features, I don't really feel that the dev has any obligation to keep the feature set the same, as long as they don't turn it into malware.

@Mitch I'm sure I can recite in my head while e.g. visualising a path around a map.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not an obligation, but...it is kind of a slap in the face.

People feel insulted.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It seems some people are upset with the tone of the announcement. They perceive it as a veiled threat.

Mmm I didn't get that impression?

The announcement was not threatening, was it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Android central calls it a shakedown.

Android police used similar language

I didn't think it was threatening.

1:42 AM

People said, at first I was excited when I read the announcement, but then I clicked the link to see what features where in the free version, and I saw he removed things. Then I got mad.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah. Well, ask for a refund.

Legally, nooöne has a leg to stand on.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Switch to some other service. Write your own. Etc.

Wow, I only now realised that Dutch and English have the exact same expression!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Also: this is a good lesson on always using Free (Libre) software.

1:44 AM

Hij heeft geen poot om op te staan = he had no paw to stand on.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Agreed.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is what people said they were going to do.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

With Free software your existing features cannot be removed.

I know.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The cloud has weakened free software's position lately.

Yeah.

But not everywhere.

Cf. the ascent of Owncloud.

I switched to it.

From Dropbox.

And I plan to move my Google calendar thither too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

A younger me would have done the same.

1:46 AM

The switch was incredibly easy, by the way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Now I don't have time for that.

@Cerberus I don't have a paw to stand on

It took me maybe ten minutes.

Open a free account at some host in Germany. I picked Blaucloud.

Install the Windows app.

Install the Android app.

Done!

@Mitch I do!

You pour, pawless square.

Uncool man, uncool

Hey, I commiserated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:50 AM

@Cerberus Yeah... that's the start. There are many other factors I need to consider. I'll keep it in mind... but honestly if Google starts fucking up so much that I need a new cloud, then there's a good chance I'll need a whole new phone ecosystem.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah I can't switch away from the Play Store or Gmail.

But one can always use two services at the same time, like Whatsapp, SMS, and Telegram.

I use all three without issues.

With Owncloud, I was able to at least take away part of my cloud in my own hands. No need to switch all parts at once.

"we have to wake up and smell the falafel" - republicans are idiots

Huh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus true.

listening to TV

idiots saying idiotic things on idiotic tv

1:53 AM

TV is idiotic. QED.

I can't switch away from Gmail, if only because of the address; and I need my contacts in Gmail, so I can't move those either.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Um, hello!

But my calendar I could remove from Google's grip without problems. The only thing is that it has to be 100% reliable.

Hello!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

How's it going?

Not well.

Someone flagged Reg, of all people, and he was suspended.

Then we got an invasion of people.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

That's preposterous.

1:56 AM

it was weird.

but it happened

People who never come here but now decided that we were bad.

Then Rob was suspended.

also weird

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh my.

Then, later, out of nothing, Kit disowned Rob and me.

Kit was never present here until the disowning.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I was reading some of that.

Around the star there.

1:57 AM

She removed all protesting lines and kept up her own.

Oh, well, we've seen it all before.

It was going on for hours.

All because of how the chat flag system works.

Over some joke of Reg's in which is joking used taboo words like "fag".

But, yeah, this has happened before in many rooms. It will blow over as usual.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Yikes.

I hope we won't lose Reg and/or Rob over this.

6

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I doubt it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's one thing for someone to flag Reg calling someone a fag. Sure, he's joking. Sure, maybe someone should try to ascertain that first. But on the surface it is offensive. So getting that one wrong is understandable.

But it was just ridiculous that his other two messages were flagged.

But there is something wrong with community management if they manage to antagonise so many of the top 20 users of a site over the years.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, and then there were even more that were flagged, lines by other people, right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:01 AM

@Cerberus Then Rob compared the flaggers to ISIS and got flagged + suspended.

Like about how censorship was similar to how fundamentalists react to alcohol by punishing people.

Yeah, that.

glowers

looks at shoes

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Now you're up to date.

It's too long to read the entire transcript, and too much like 2011.

I think flags are ... hear me out ... kind of an extreme luxury.

2:03 AM

Speaking of 'shoes', why is it English uses the same word for what we put on horses' feet, while other languages use variants of 'zapata'?

we wouldn't notice the lack of them if we never had them

Yeah.

Because spammers can't make chat accounts anyway.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 so the terrorists won.

Where we need more power for flagging is on the main site.

It takes a bit long to remove spam there.

@KitZ.Fox I feel like I'm being insulted somehow, like you calling me 'horse feet'.

2:05 AM

Just so you know, @Cerb, I cleaned the single stars from the earlier flagging, I didn't clean the stars during our discussion.

@Cerberus yes, I was thinking in that direction.

You already lied about disliking me.

I don't care.

Although I heard that the earlier discussion had a similar problem where folks were monkeying with the stars to slant the wall toward their position.

those flags need to be more dynamic, like the chat ones currently are.

Trusted users should be able to one-shot spam on the main site, I would say.

It would make Tom very happy.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

2:06 AM

Ad astra per aspera.

With a severe punishment for one-shotting anything that isn't spam.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Cerberus I agree with that.

@Cerberus I'm offended that you have accused me of lying.

@KitZ.Fox nope. that was (I'm inferring) just Jasper starring things left and right.

@Mitch I'm talking about clearing stars. Jasper can't do that.

2:07 AM

oh. I was talking about where the stars came from (I don't think people were ganging up on anybody with them, just Jasper innocently doing it)

Now. About shoes. Is there a connection between 'shoes' and 'zapata'?

or 'sabot' or the other romantic variants?

@KitZ.Fox You mean they use iron-words but we use shoe-words?

No known cognates outside Germanic,

@KitZ.Fox Now you're pretending to care about the room all of a sudden. You only came here to disown Rob and me, after not participating in the room for a very long time.

@tchrist I don't know what you mean?

2:08 AM

But whatever.

Subject closed.

@tchrist zapata/sabot has something to do with iron?

Zapato is shoe in Spanish. Zapata is tennis shoe. Herradura is horseshoe, with ferrrous roots.

Oh, I see. That's interesting.

There is a word, ferrier.

Looks like we adopted shoe as a generic foot covering, from horseshoe. Where did zapato come from then?

@tchrist I have a friend who is a ferrier.

2:11 AM

Something like that. Connected.

@KitZ.Fox I don't see the horse-foot-thing meaning in the oldest shoe cognates (Schuh)

what's a good romance etymological dictionary?

@KitZ.Fox Turkish.

what is the provenance of sabot/zapato?

@Mitch OK. I don't read etymologies very well.

33 secs ago, by tchrist

@KitZ.Fox Turkish.

2:13 AM

OK, so zabata.

Turkish, so...delightful?

Guess it's nobody's business but the Turks'.

haha

sabot is cognate with ciabatta.

did you know that ciabatta was invented (as a bread) in like 1980.

really? because of the shape or the hardness or both maybe?

“Zapato” y “galocha” son dos palabras que entran en Europa con la venida de las lenguas de los canteros caucásicos y de Asia Menor, durante la Edad Media.

2:15 AM

I wonder if ciabatta is somehow related to challah, but I can't remember why I had the thought originally.

@tchrist Middle Ages?

Yes

@KitZ.Fox probably shape

> La Real Academia Española supo que en alguna lengua de oriente medio, para designar tal objeto de cuero que recubría todo el pie, la fonética encontrada era algo así como “sabat, o çabat o zabat o zapat”, y, dada la similitud fonética, fijó la etimología.

I'm kind of surprised I could read most of that.

> En la etimología de la palabra “zapato” nos encontramos con dificultades que algún académico resolvió en un “pispás”, dando como solución apodíctica que procede de la palabra turca “zabata” sin más explicaciones, y se quedó tan fresco, para que todos los que consultáramos esa palabra, tragáramos esta etimología oficial de la Real Academia.

2:17 AM

chaussettes or is it chaussures are viennoiseries

Fijó is just "fixed" in the preterite.

pispas? missteps?

I don't get that word.

Slang for in an instant.

I don't know where it comes from.

sounds turkish

Huh. I had no idea shoes were so interesting.

So what are horseshoes again?

2:19 AM

Iron fixture thingies.

you said that comes from iron roots?

I see.

Ferraduras until recently.

Pronunciation changed not that long ago.

Like maybe if we had called them "hard irons" instead of "horse shoes".

Yes.

I can't decide if I should crease these pants or not. What's correct for business casual?

2:20 AM

There's a verb, herrar, which means to put those on horses.

horseshoes are a recent invention so probably not an 'original' word...

What's herrar like?

They're made of hierro, which is what iron ended up getting spelled.

So to iron a horse?

sort of

Yeah.

> 1. tr. Ajustar y clavar las herraduras a las caballerías, o los callos a los bueyes.
2. tr. Marcar con un hierro candente los ganados, los artefactos, etc.
3. tr. Marcar con un hierro candente a esclavos y delincuentes, para señalar su condición social, y también como castigo de estos últimos.
4. tr. Guarnecer de hierro un artefacto.
5. tr. desus. Poner a alguien prisiones de hierro.

2:21 AM

Clavar, I like that.

Nail.

growls clavar, clavar

Like cleave.

> "PiP My Pet" uses facial recognition technology to match lost & found pets. Download the free app to help lost cats & dogs find their way home.

play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.visage.pip2

Wonder how well that works.

Now it's bed time, adios!

So about the pants. Anybody know?

Take someone prisoner in irons.

I would.

I don't wear pants much though.

2:23 AM

@Cerberus all our pets are being surveilled now.

Skirts? Should I go with a skirt instead?

No.

You should wear pants.

I meant I hate winter when I have to.

Oh.

@Mitch Always. At least it doesn't get very good reviews, so I'm still somewhat safe.

I wore shorts on Sunday even, but it was 63.

2:24 AM

@KitZ.Fox hm.. is there a pattern here? Are you going horseriding with Spanish speakers?

La vaquera misma.

@Mitch It's possible. I've never been on an executive retreat before.

Is that what they do on executive retreats?

The binderberger group?

I think they bang drugs in the room.

I want to not know what that doesn't mean.

dang it. drums. drums.

drums n the woods

2:26 AM

This isn't going to work. However, I am not going to panic.

I'm sure you have something nice to wear.

When people say don't panic, I get nervous

Spelunking.

wait, are you really going on an executive retreat?

I have one pair of interview pants. I have a nice skirt. I have plenty of crisp blousees.

@Mitch Yes.

I need one more something to wear on my legs.

2:28 AM

oh. jeans and ripped t-shirts.

If you have a nice skirt that you enjoy wearing, that's ok. A few ladies do wear skirts at the mothership.

Yes! I should have thought of that!

not bought ripped, but worn threadbare kind of ripped

But they tend to be older.

@tchrist It's for the nighttime business casual.

And I am older.

Oh. Oh! I think I might have one other pair of interview pants.

2:29 AM

I don't want to say anything that might seem like a male sexist pig here.

Since I lost ten pounds(!)

That's nice, but are you sure I can't return them to you?

I've decided they don't fit me.

@tchrist I don't follow. I don't know executive etiquette, so do you think I'm making a faux pas?

@tchrist Is that where they went? I was running from zombies, so I didn't see.

faux pas by wearing business casual? no I think that's expected. actually depends on the company

I don't think it would be rude/weird to ask.

@KitZ.Fox There is a "cultural language" in business regarding what women wear what and why, one that I am completely ignorant of.

0

Q: Thank you very much for your or you're

is it Thank you very much for your or Thank you very much for you're

The needful wants done.

2:35 AM

@Mitch It was stated on the admittedly very skimpy agenda.

so yes, business casual? do you already have those kinds of outfits?

kinda. I did some shopping a couple weeks ago when I got the invite, but I've had a lot to do.

what you wear to work everyday isn't considered business casual?

I wear exercise clothes and jeans and stuff.

I can't fit in this suit. Don't know when I ever could. Probably pre-children. Or maybe it shrank in the closet.

that's casual but I guess not business casual

2:43 AM

I'm going to wear a grey wool skirt. That will look classic and smart.

nice

And will absolutely not go with this striped blouse...

I'm not sure I'm executive material.

I have no idea. plaid and stripes and checks, I'd wear them all.

actually no. I wouldn't wear any of them.

various shades of khaki

It's just stylistically wrong. Oh! But I have a cashmere sweater. Classic, smart, soft, and expensive.

pearls? that's maybe too much

2:46 AM

That would be good for nighttime, but I don't own any.

Just an ankh and a slab of lapis.

I think that's all that's left of my neckwear.

I wish I could get away with boots, but that's probably too casual.

I should have asked the CIO what she's wearing.

Well, I'll figure it out. Didn't mean to go on such a tangent. Apologies.

ok shoes are turkish

er.. zapatos

what was pispas?

6 hours later…

user174558

8:57 AM

What's the big deal about being removed as a room owner anyway? One doesn't get to use the powers associated very much, and one does not get paid.

user174558

And the same goes for being removed as a moderator.

user174558

9:25 AM

@user685252 Hello you are skullpatrol.

user174558

Not funny to have so many user accounts.

« first day (1834 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3081 days later) »

Transcript for

Nov '1519

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...

phrase-requests pronunciation single-word-requests synonyms

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile