English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2015-11-19 (page 1 of 4)

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12:00 AM

@Cerberus I don't know why you think that I disliked you, nor why you think the reason we haven't spoken in a year has anything to do with me. I've been in chat.

@JasperLoy oh. You should try tinder or whatever online dating thing. I think that is the way it works these days on the Internet (there's no doing anything without the internet)

@KitZ.Fox Dividis et imperas.

user174558

@Mitch I will say more about Maria. First there was Maria 1, then Maria 2, and then no Maria. That is all.

@KitZ.Fox It was long before that, and you know it.

@KitZ.Fox Do you even know the difference between intellectual honesty and dishonesty? Or is it just about winning your petty little argument?

12:01 AM

@Cerberus I don't. I don't know what you are talking about.

Haha. Incredible.

user174558

@cerberus What is the reason Kit would dislike you?

I never found out, but about two years ago she began to often respond aggressively to me in conversations here.

Being a non-player here, the plot to this story is going in the direction of a tragedy, not a comedy

user174558

@Cerberus See, you never found out.

12:03 AM

I even asked her directly at the time, but she ignored my question.

@Mitch No, it's a farce.

@JasperLoy I never found out why. But her behaviour was 100% clear. She hated me.

Well, @Kit, how about this. Would it make you happy if I deleted my account? Would you lose any sleep over that?

Good point, @Mitch. Let's bring it back on-topic. If anyone has a problem with my decisions, you can take it to Meta or email team@stackexchange.com. No harm, no foul.

@Robusto Don't.

user174558

12:03 AM

@Cerberus That is a very vague statement. So it doesn't mean anything.

It means everything.

She won't even admit that she dislikes Rob.

Innocence herself.

But I've said all I had to say.

user174558

@Robusto Well, you can't afford to lose 100k, but I can afford to lose 20k, so don't delete your account!

user174558

@Cerberus She did not say she did not dislike Rob.

I have had others, who shall go nameless, ask me if other others, also nameless, if one was upset with the other because of not talking. That's tragic

@JasperLoy He asked her, and she evaded it.

12:05 AM

What's the catch-all these days. Still Do balrogs have wings?

user174558

@Cerberus But she did not evade your question.

Intellectual dishonesty is the mark of the failed scientist.

@KitZ.Fox You haven't been in chat for a year. Why return now, on this bleak day?

A certain bird comes to mind.

But never mind.

user174558

@Cerberus Because this chat was full of flags?

Shit

12:06 AM

I am done with this subject.

user174558

@Robusto More the mark of politicians.

No one is trying

@Robusto Let's talk about Old English.

@JasperLoy Nobody expects politicians to have scruples.

@Robusto Did Old English have any Latin word that had already been incorporated into the language?

user174558

12:07 AM

@Cerberus We should not avoid talking about our problems. We must face them.

OK. I have to go. If we can't get this chat back on-topic, I'm going to have to freeze it while I put the boys to bed. So what do you think - want to talk about Old English?

@JasperLoy Have I not just done so?

@Cerberus yes! Street

What is the topic, incomprehensibility?

user174558

@Cerberus Yeah, but no need to talk about Old English. You can continue to talk anything you want, no need to use Old English as an excuse to change the topic.

12:08 AM

Incomprehensibility and Old English.

<Latin strata used ~300AD

@JasperLoy If I want to talk about OE, why shouldn't I?

Excellent, thank you.

@Mitch Good find.

Wait! I like the OE talk.

There's another one

12:09 AM

Is that the earliest you can find?

It is very early, indeed.

'Road' would be too easy. But the sound changes don't work

I'm not sure OE even existed that early.

Road is from Latin??

City names don't count but....

I don't think road is a borrowing directly from rota

For wheel

I made up 300ad

You don't think, but...?

Yikes, you meanie.

You know, this is bullshit, folks. Have a nice life. I won't live under a dictatorship of incompetence.

12:11 AM

But it was there from earliest written OE and not in any other Germanic so must be directly from latin

@Robusto You won't care any more next week!

@Robusto Don't do anything rash. As a personal favour to me.

@Mitch Yes, that makes sense.

But something about 'town' ....

And when can OE be distinguished as such? From 500ish?

'Castra' -> 'crater' in town names ?

Are you pulling all those out of your hat?

Or are you looking them up?

12:13 AM

From memory I think that was OE but thinking logically it looks like it came from old French

Not that it matters.

Memory, good.

Oops, Chester

All from hat

Not making them up

Ahh chester, I have heard that.

Perhaps through castellum.

Looking up is for wimps.

Which is from castra.

Or perhaps directly.

12:14 AM

looks up to see who wrote that first

user174558

Castrate?

Looking up is for wimps and the non-lazy.

Castle?

user174558

Now someone will come in and flag me.

Phonological not wrong, but that ... Well could have come to English more than one way

Castle is pronounced like it did not come from OF

user174558

12:16 AM

Robusto, Cerberus and Mitch have never changed their avatars.

But Chester does

I have too

user174558

I remember you said yours was very mathematical.

Well not that you could tell

I redid the colors very slightly

Castel is from castellum, which is from castra.

For aesthetics

Really.

user174558

12:17 AM

Someone is messing with the stars.

Who cares about stars.

We chat. That is what we do.

Still not caring.

user174558

Only I care about the stars.

user174558

Once a soprano told a conductor she was a star and should not be criticised, and he told her there are only stars in the sky...

I care that the light from the city at night is such that you can't see the Milky Way

That's the definition of a wag

Or is it a fop

Or a bon motier

@JasperLoy Usually, conductors are no less diva-like that sopranos...

user174558

12:21 AM

Milky Way = MW = Merriam Webster

@Mitch Ah, no, road is of course related to ride.

The altos are just jealous

And Rad.

Inch is from Latin.

I should have guessed.

12:21 AM

And wheel

@tchrist Uncia.

Jinx

Yes.

user174558

A newcomer would think that tchrist = Jesus Christ.

Use a better font.

12:22 AM

14

A: Why is 1/12 called an "uncia" in Latin?

All etymological dictionaries (Walde, Meillet) say that uncia is derived from Proto-Indo-European **oi-nos*, "one", the same stem as Latin unus, "one", and English one/an. (This stem at some point replaced in many languages the older stem used for "one", sem-, as reflected in English (through Lat...

user174558

'Racism has done more harm than libraries' gets 6 stars, LOL.

user174558

You get stars for saying shit these days.

> STREET: One of the few words in use in England continuously from Roman times. An early and widespread Germanic borrowing (Old Frisian strete, Old Saxon strata, Middle Dutch strate, Dutch straat, Old High German straza, German Strasse, Swedish stråt, Danish sträde "street"). The Latin is also the source of Spanish estrada, Old French estrée, Italian strada.

"The normal term in OE for a paved way or Roman road, later extended to other roads, urban streets, and in SE dialects to a street of dwellings, a straggling village or hamlet" [Cambridge Dictionary of English Place-Names]. Originally …

@Mitch Ding!

user174558

@cerberus Did I tell you before that when I first came here, I thought you were an old, old man?

@JasperLoy frags

12:26 AM

@JasperLoy Why?

> CASTLE: This word also had come to Old English as ceaster and formed the -caster and -chester in place names. Spanish alcazar "castle" is from Arabic al-qasr, from Latin castrum.

user174558

@Cerberus I don't know. Maybe you seem very learned, like a scholar.

Haha thanks, I guess...

But aren't we all?

> CHESTER: Cestre (1086), from Old English Legacæstir (735) "City of the Legions," from Old English ceaster "Roman town or city," from Latin castrum "fortified place" (see castle (n.)).

user174558

Dutch girls are very pretty. Too bad you don't like them, lol.

So @Mitch Chester had already been borrowed from Latin in Old-English times (or before).

@JasperLoy I thought that was pretty funny

user174558

12:28 AM

@Mitch Therefore, it should have a star.

@Cerberus ha ha!

Hey, it's serious business, you've won!

A word already borrowed in Proto-Germanic harrumpf

You really had to rub it in, didn't you?

@Cerberus nice. two for two

I didn't know about 'inch'

user174558

I am going to sleep, good night. poof

@tchrist Was Inch already used in Old English?

@JasperLoy Good night.

You poofed too slow!

12:32 AM

@Cerberus ynch

OK.

> C. 1000 Laws of Æthelbert c. 67 ― ʒife ofer ynce, scilling; æt twam yncum, tweʒen.
C. 1000 Laws of Ælfred c 45 ― Wund inces lang.
C. 1000 in Sal. & Sat. (Kemble) 180 ― He [Adam] wæs vi and cx ynca lang.

Does that count as Old?

Yes.

On the brink...

12:33 AM

Ælfred and Æthelbert didn't speak Chaucer.

Nor William?

Middle English required the Norman Invasion.

@Cerberus what? it was borrowed from proto-italic into ... proto low german? does dutch have something like it? go through your names for small towns

@Mitch Nah, borrowed by Proto-Germanic from Latin.

@tchrist gawd they can't spell

12:34 AM

I don't think there was any contact between Proto-Italic and Proto-Germanic?

@Mitch vi users

They lived in different regions.

I don't even know when Proto-Germanic "emerged".

@Cerberus those guys were barely running through the woods when the latins were destroying carthage

@Cerberus when? i thought 'where' was much further east

when is such a guess if they don't write

@Mitch Probably!

when did futhark come out?

12:39 AM

@Mitch Yes, much further east, but then I don't know where PI originates.

much further further east

Perhaps it was already formed in Asia?

pripyet marches.

@Mitch Kinda personal question.

not very auspicious beginnings

12:40 AM

That's where all of us IE chaps come from.

@tchrist ha ha. so modest

@Cerberus whereas the .. were sumerians considered semites?

Umm.

I think so?

No, I think not.

The Akkadians were Semites.

Sumerian is an isolate.

I actually don't know where the Semites came from.

Arcadians weren't.

Not the classical ones, at least.

But before the Greeks came?

yes, wikipedia says sumerian was an isolate. but babylonian and akkadian were semitic

12:44 AM

Yeah.

@tchrist They weren't semitic?

@Mitch Don't think so.

Certainly not!

Arcadia is in Greece.

What is the hypothesised place of origin of the Semite-Hamite family anyway?

I think the Finnic-Ugric family's is also central Asia.

@Cerberus wikipedia says north of caucasus... basically Cossack territory but 3500BC

Yes.

There are several hypotheses, but they're all roughly in the same region. Around and/or north(-west) of the Caspian Sea.

12:52 AM

@Cerberus again wikipedia is saying arabian peninsula/levantnorth africa, but I find the lattr hard to belive because Egyptian civilization getting in the way

But Egyptian was Semitic-Hamitic.

Isn't it?

wiki says it is afroasiatic not semitic-hamitic

Afroasiatic languages

Afroasiatic (Afro-Asiatic), also known as Afrasian and traditionally as Hamito-Semitic (Chamito-Semitic), is a large language family of several hundred related languages and dialects. It comprises about 300 or so living languages and dialects, according to the 2009 Ethnologue estimate. It includes languages spoken predominantly in the Middle East, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and parts of the Sahel. Afroasiatic languages have 350+ million native speakers, the fourth largest number of any language family. It has six branches: Berber, Chadic, Cushitic, Egyptian, Omotic and Semitic. The most...

@Mitch La même chose.

ha ha

the same

name

If you will permit me the Anglicism.

12:54 AM

er different names for the same thing

nous sommes tous les franglais

Eh! oui.

Or is it Eh ! oui. ?

ben oui!

I always wonder why they say ben.

what, with a space?

And how they pronounce it exactly.

Yes, space or no space.

12:59 AM

abut the afroasiatic/hamitosemitic thing..I have a lot of rethinking to do. I never knew. well, egyptiancoptic is 'hamitic' or different enough that it's not like hebrew/arabic

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