« first day (1335 days earlier)      last day (3589 days later) » 

3:00 PM
@KitFox Respiratory diseases, sure.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm just prompting Kit for an explanation if she wants without coming right out and asking her for one.
 
@Mitch I'm just trying to change the subject into a philosophical debate
 
@Cerberus What? That doesn't even make sense. Why would you only get respiratory diseases that way?
 
@MattЭллен Yes, also, you should get rid of all your cash (I'll send you an address to send to). While you're at it, money is a corrupting influence. I care about you so you should give it away. I'll take care of it.
 
It's not rocket science. Your body picks up random bits of stuff, transports it to your immuno areas, tries out some antibodies for those things. It doesn't do it better if you are exposed to lots of pathogens, it just does it more.
 
3:02 PM
@Mitch you're a true friend
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Philosophical debate never solved anything. (your turn)
 
@KitFox Normally, germs cannot penetrate your skin.
 
hands over wallet
sorry, I've used the notes as tissues
 
@MattЭллен I don't want to sound immodest...
 
@Cerberus They enter through your mucus membranes or cuts.
 
3:02 PM
@KitFox but it learns how to handle the ones it has conquered no?
 
And your digestive system is very good at killing other germs in small quantities.
 
@JohanLarsson Maybe.
 
@Mitch Philosophical debates never dissolved anything either. But there's always a first time.
 
@KitFox But that's difficult.
 
@MattЭллен Oh, is that why they’re rolled up into little cylinders?
 
3:03 PM
@Cerberus Not if you touch your face.
 
Your face has skin?
 
@tchrist ah... don't let sniffer dogs near those ones
 
@Cerberus Pick your nose, wipe your eyes, bite your fingernail.
Scratch your scalp.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The universal solution to debate is water. It's a science thing.
 
beneath fingers nails is where worm eggs lie
 
3:04 PM
@KitFox If you rub ten E. coli bacteria into your eye, you won't get sick, right?
 
@MattЭллен Lovecraft?
 
@KitFox wipes Matt's bills on just made open cuts
 
@Cerberus It depends.
 
You also won't get sick if you eat a small number of salmonella bacteria.
 
@tchrist some children's book about hygiene
 
3:05 PM
I think I read you need to eat millions for them to overcome your initial immune response.
 
@KitFox Is it OK to eat your own lice? I'm asking for a friend.
 
There’s skin and there’s skin. Some skin is more permeable than other bits.
 
@Mitch Yes.
 
@Mitch Not if you’re a vegetarian.
 
@Cerberus That's not true. You just need enough in the right spot.
 
3:06 PM
@Cerberus just eat around them. It'll be fine
 
@KitFox Whew.
 
Besides, millions of bacteria is still small enough that you can't see it.
 
I mean OK I'll tell them.
 
But, in general, for you to get sick, you either need to eat a fairly large quantity of germs (if they can penetrate your digestive system), or you need to rub them into a cut, or, if it is a respiratory disease, you only need to touch an object and rub your hand against a respiratory organ (or be sneezed at).
 
As long as you are laughing, it will be OK though.
 
3:08 PM
@KitFox No, I read you really need to eat lots of salmonella bacteria to get sick, not just a few.
 
You just need enough in the right spot.
 
Round about the cauldron go,
In the poisoned entrails throw.
Toad, that under cold stone
Days and nights has thirty-one
Sweltered venom sleeping got,
Boil thou first i’ th’ charmèd pot.
 
@KitFox Of course. But it's hard for a dry object to pick up millions of the same bacteria in a brush.
 
Lice, all lice! Nothing but filthy lice!
 
@Cerberus Actually, the study re: the 5s rule found that hard, dry surfaces like linoleum were the worst case scenario for dropped food. Bacteria transfer was best achieved there.
 
3:10 PM
@Cerberus Your fingers are not a dry object.
 
> The organism enters through the digestive tract and must be ingested in large numbers to cause disease in healthy adults.
An infectious process can only begin after living salmonellae (not only their toxins) reach the gastrointestinal tract. Some of the microorganisms are killed in the stomach, while the surviving salmonellae enter the small intestine and multiply in tissues (localized form). Gastric acidity is responsible for the destruction of the majority of ingested bacteria, however Salmonella has evolved a degree of tolerance to acidic environments that allows a subset of ingested b
From Wikipedia.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You are talking about an actual study?
 
@Cerberus yes.
 
but how much is a large number translated into a meal of chicken?
 
It was mentioned at the start of this whole conversation.
 
@KitFox A candy bar dropped on dry pavement is relatively dry.
 
3:12 PM
or is it 5s?
 
@Cerberus You realize this counters your argument that you will only get respiratory illnesses this way.
 
Plase cite your source — Matt Эллен ♦ Feb 26 at 9:17
The user never returned.
I flagged it as LQ.
Which nobody else agreed with.
Now what?
 
discuss some germs?
 
@MattЭллен Shall we just kill it for plagiarism, or like, what like?
 
@tchrist yes. thanks for reminding me
 
3:14 PM
kthxbai
 
@MattЭллен No.
I already fixed it.
 
@KitFox Oh, I didn’t see your edit.
 
I just did it.
 
Ah.
I’ve been editing in attributions when I could find them, and leaving notes only when I could not.
 
@KitFox Umm straw man? I absolutely did not say that.
 
3:18 PM
18 mins ago, by Cerberus
@KitFox Respiratory diseases, sure.
 
I said that most diseases you can get from eating things require that you eat more than a few bacteria, respiratory diseases excepted.
 
You didn't say anything about eating things. We weren't talking about eating things.
We were talking about picking up bacteria and transferring it past your skin boundary by touching your mucus membranes.
 
From what I read, for most germs, not enough bacteria will enter your body if you just touch money and then your face.
 
@KitFox Cerb is actually presenting two ideas at once. One, the "your skin blocks infection" one, and two: a chocolate bar dropped on the street is safe to eat because the street is dry.
 
OK. I'm done now.
turns back to writing use cases
 
3:21 PM
@Cerberus That doesn't make much sense. It will always depend on your immune system and idiosyncrasies.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because, for most germs, merely touching an object and licking your finger will not be enough: you need large numbers of bacteria.
@terdon All this is about healthy adults.
 
Do you think there aren't large numbers of bacteria on your fingertip?
 
Licking your finger will rarely be enough, the mouth is a very hostile environment.
 
@KitFox There are, but not of the right kind, most of the time.
 
I would guess (without really knowing) that sticking the finger up your nose would be a good deal more dangerous.
 
3:22 PM
Otherwise, we would get sick every day from licking our fingers, wouldn't we?
@terdon Which most of us also do every day.
Present company excepted, of course.
 
Yes. And get infections. Every day. Whether or not they result in symptoms is another matter.
 
This is why we wash our hands.
But really, I don't need to understand your point of view, I need to write use cases.
 
@terdon Well, there you go. It's just not something to worry about.
 
Not what I said.
 
It is what I said!
stamps foot
 
3:25 PM
It all depends. Yes, as a general rule, there is no need for paranoia over this. However, it is entirely possible to get an infection by licking your finger or sticking it in your nose. That it doesn't happen every time does not mean it doesn't happen at all. Or even often.
 
Well, I think those infections are mostly respiratory diseases, at least in the West.
It's easy to pick up the flu or a cold from licking your finger if it touched a door knob that someone else touched.
 
@Cerberus I don't know where you get that idea. Do you mean air-borne pathogens?
 
Respiratory diseases are often also air-borne, but what I mean is diseases that mainly affect your throat, nose, lungs.
The flu, a cold.
 
@Cerberus Oh? Sources? Both of those are viral diseases (actually, the same disease) so they may well half a pretty long half life on such objects. I have no idea why you think that would be specific to respiratory diseases though.
 
3:29 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What if you rub a chocolate bar on your skin? What does your philosophy say about that?
 
@Mitch It would probably kill him.
 
@Mitch The Milk Chocolate must Melt in Your Mouth, Not in Your Hands
 
@terdon I think it is because they are "designed" to be easily spread through small quantities, and because they specialise in penetrating the barriers of your throat/etc.?
 
@KitFox I don't see any. Basically you're telling me about magic about which only you know the rules.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oww the sand worm!
 
3:31 PM
@Cerberus They all are really. It's very hard to make such generalizations and probably impossible to do so based on the type of symptom rather than the class of bug.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Love it!
 
Good morning, all ye blind men. And hello to you too, elephant.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The Oracle has Spoken.
 
@tchrist There's an elephant here?
 
@KitFox Yes, but they don’t know it.
 
3:33 PM
room topic changed to English Language & Usage: Whatever you do, don't mention the elephant (no tags)
 
The Oracle is kinda full of itself, what with all the capitals. Acts like it knows everything. And when it doesn't it's just evasive or cryptic. Probably wears a beret.
@tchrist Wait, is the elephant the candy bar?
 
0
Q: What's a common name for creating and removing objects?

Konrad VilterstenI'm about to name a method in my software. It's going to perform two tasks that are, more or less, inseparable from each other. The first one is to create a table in a database. The second one is to remove. It might sound pointless to do that but the aim of the test is to verify whether that can ...

Can that be salvaged?
Or should we just get the L out of it?
Condestruction.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What's the title of the book on the bedside table?
 
Naming, including naming programming variables/classes
 
@terdon I thought so.
 
3:36 PM
@terdon That is what I have read: it's easy to catch the flu or a cold from door knobs, hard to catch most other diseases, in the West.
 
If it can be made into something that is not variable naming, but could be used for variable naming, then maybe.
 
Plus it's just silly, he can name it shazoo, why not. And what's wrong with management?
 
@Cerberus Why do you keep saying "in the West"?
 
@terdon Management are the problem, not the answer.
 
@Cerberus Not saying it's wrong. Just sounds strange.
 
3:39 PM
> The University of Ballart microbiologist ...

So, with a global team of colleagues — and a stash of 1280 polymer and cotton-based banknotes from Australia, New Zealand, Burkina Faso, China, Ireland, the Netherlands, Nigeria, the US, Mexico and Britain — he put the idea under the microscope.
...
So do banknotes carry dangerous levels of bacteria?
Well, it looks like it's a myth.
...
The result?
About 15 per cent of the banknotes we studied in Australia had E. coli on them. Staph aureus — 22 per cent. We never found any salmonella. Overseas we found a little in China, America, Ireland and B
@KitFox Because I only read about hygiene in the West with respect to touching money and stuff.
 
@Cerberus So? Who said anything about banknotes? Also, bear in mind that that suggests 22-37% of banknotes do carry potentially harmful bacteria. Not that it means that is a public health concern, just that they're there.
 
People were talking about handling money here.
 
@Mitch I can't make it out
 
The article does not suggest that there are harmful numbers of bacteria on bank notes.
The fact that bacteria are there is what news outlets keep repeating. My point is that there are germs everywhere and that that very fact is not enough to make you sick.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think it says Books for Dukes upside-down.
Not Dukes. Something else.
 
3:48 PM
@Mitch Arrakis for Dummies
 
Oh. Yeah.
 
@Cerberus Oh yes, of course. And there is a hell of a lot of unfounded paranoia about it too. My argument was against your strange, to me, distinction between respiratory and non- diseases.
 
Ah OK.
@terdon Well, we'd have to look it up. But you will probably agree that the claim makes sense that it's much easier to catch the flu and a cold from door knobs than, say, E. coli?
 
@Cerberus Well yes but that's just cause E. coli is a bacterium and needs to survive while flu is a virus which are much hardier creatures.
 
Right, but surely not all viral diseases spread so quickly?
Like...a viral eye infection?
HIV?
 
3:57 PM
@Cerberus No, the rate can vary a lot. It depends on how aggressive the virus is, its incubation period, your own cells and various other things.
 
But also on what it's normal method of infecting people is. If it can infect you through couching, then it's very contagious.
And I think there is a connection between the method and what parts of your body it affects.
And for some reason viruses that affect your respiratory system are quick to spread, right? Or at least the common ones.
Which is why people get so worked up about bird flu.
 
Isn't that very loud?
 
Is there an elephant in the room? I feel like I must be missing something.
 
@Cerberus I have no idea about that.
@Cerberus I have never understood why people got so worked up about that. Apart from Halliburton managing to sell a pretty pointless vaccine that is.
 
4:06 PM
@terdon Well, you will agree that colds and the flu spread quickly, through the air and door knobs.
 
Dunno about door knobs, that's your datum, not mine. I just don't know anything that would contradict it off the top of my head.
 
I need to get a gold badge without getting a silver or bronze.
 
user116848
Hi guys :)
 
Off-topic: Your rep and the -99-ending badge count are being envied!! — Neeku 1 min ago
 
@terdon I read everywhere, and not in random scare-craze newspaper articles, that it's easy to catch a cold from door knobs.
 
4:08 PM
@Cerberus And I'm not saying it's wrong! As I said, I don't know anything that would contradict it off the top of my head.
 
@terdon Those who caught the bird flu were expected to have a high chance of dying, and, if it developed a way of spreading as fast as regular human influenza, then we would have a dangerous epidemic that stood a chance of quickly killing many.
@terdon OK OK!
I'm glad you agree there is some paranoia about germs in the West in general.
 
@Cerberus Bird flu being a case in point!
 
I don't know!
 
@terdon It fizzled out, but I don't know whether it was reasonable to expect that it would.
 
4:10 PM
> Studies have found that the survival time for both kinds of viruses varies greatly, from a few seconds to 48 hours. The reasons have to do with a number of factors, including the type of surface, humidity and temperature.

For example, cold and flu viruses survive longer on inanimate surfaces that are nonporous, like metal, plastic and wood, and less on porous surfaces, like clothing, paper and tissue. Most flu viruses can live one to two days on nonporous surfaces, and 8 to 12 hours on porous surfaces. But a 2006 study found that avian influenza seemed particularly hardy, surviving as lo
 
This is really weird. I keep getting pinged twice whenever you ping me @cerb.
 
user116848
What about mad cow disease? It was very dangerous too.
 
@Arrowfar “was”?
 
user116848
Is?
 
user116848
Still? I don't know of any.
 
4:11 PM
Completely different beast. No comparison whatsoever.
The pathogen here is a protein, not a virus or bacterium. Fascinating stuff but very very different.
 
@terdon bacterium != virus != prion
 
Exactly.
 
@tchrist What that doesn't say, however, is whether there was enough of the virus there to actually make you sick. I believe there is, most of the time, but that is a crucial point.
@terdon Even when I don't correct my lines?
 
@terdon Are you in two rooms at once? You'll probably get pinged from the tab itself and the sidebar.
 
@AndrewLeach Huh? I'm in many but I just checked and it happens even if I ping myself.
@terdon Like now.
 
user116848
4:13 PM
You can also get flu from 'stress' you know. Not necessarily door knobs. :)
 
@Arrowfar No you can't!
 
user116848
@terdon Why not?
 
Stress can affect your immune system, making you more susceptible to diseases but it cannot cause flu.
 
Exactly.
 
user116848
@terdon Yeah but weak immune system makes you catch flu easily.
 
4:16 PM
@Arrowfar It makes it easier yes. However, in order to catch the flu you need to be infected by a virus. Stress alone won't do it.
Weird, the double pinging thing seems to have gone away after I restarted my browser.
 
user116848
Yeah. That is true.
 
@terdon Test
No! Dammit.
 
@tchrist I now wonder whether it is always the case that flu and cold viruses can survive on your skin for only a few minutes. I expected longer.
 
user116848
So why can't we mention the elephant here?
 
@terdon You had two tabs open.
/flags the pachymentioner
 
4:17 PM
The same room twice?
 
@tchrist Give me some credit!
 
I'll have you know I'm an orc with a cold, not an elephant
 
@terdon Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
 
And no I don't and it still happens... I guess there must be another instance running somewhere but I sure don't see it.
 
@terdon Ask no quarter nor give none.
 
4:18 PM
And then you'll be a man my son?
Or is that Hamlet?
 
Benedícame, padre.
 
Whatshisname, the idiot who was killed behind the curtain.
 
@terdon Polonius.
 
With the best line of all of Shakespeare: Oh! I am slain!.
Yup, that's him.
 
As brevity is the soul of wit. . . .
Wit’s soul = brevity
 
4:20 PM
I mean, seriously, some kid drives a sword through your stomach and you say that? What's wrong with Aaaaargh fuuuck!
 
Understatement is alright, I suppose
 
@terdon You must not have seen the first Hobbit movie. Consider the Great Goblin’s last words in the film after Gandalf runs him through with Glamdring: “That’ll do it.”
 
Hah.
 
This is really weird. I'm getting double pinged by each message. In multiple rooms. I don't seem to have any other browser instances running.
 
Dame Edna to the end.
 
4:21 PM
Short=witty.
 
@tchrist Huh? I missed that! And I did see it (unfortunately).
 
user116848
So are we allowed to use the "f" word in here?
 
This business is well ended.
My liege, and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night night, and time is time,
Were nothing but to waste night, day and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief: your noble son is mad:
Mad call I it; for, to define true madness,
What is't but to be nothing else but mad?
But let that go.
 
user116848
:)
 
Brevity is not his forte.
 
4:23 PM
@Arrowfar Only if you don't call it the f word.
 
user116848
haha
 
@tchrist Is it yours?
 
@Cerberus Softly, softly.
 
That's Hamlet isn't it?
 
No, ’tis Polonius.
 
4:23 PM
Let me answer that: "no".
 
@tchrist Meant the play, not the character.
 
Brevity is my piano.
 
Yet you always seem to prefer the organ.
 
@Cerberus stops using doorknobs
 
@terdon And what man does not?
The castrate alone, I fear.
I always thought there was something funny about Al Capone.
 
4:25 PM
wonders how to get out of here
 
@Mitch Gloves?
 
@tchrist He was a big joker.
 
user116848
@Cerberus May be Cerbs has a OCD.
 
@Arrowfar Ya think?
 
user116848
Yeah :D
 
4:26 PM
@terdon orders gloves on line. have delivery person put on my desk
 
Mirabile visu
 
It always bugged me that it was called disorder. Obsessive compulsive order sounds so much, well, neater.
7
 
> Sacht, sacht, die Türe zu.
 
@terdon You obviously have that, OCO.
 
@terdon You’re just the guy to stick the hyphen in anal-retentive.
 
user116848
4:27 PM
I have a little bit of OCD too. I often do things twice. All jokes aside.
 
@tchrist I wish, way out of my league I'm afraid.
 
@Arrowfar I hate that. You get home and find you already bought the book.
 
user116848
Yeah.
 
@Arrowfar Oh, do I?
 
user116848
4:28 PM
@Cerberus It was a joke. You know your talk about flu from the door knobs. :)
 
@Mitch Unless you want to live a phobic life and wear a mouth cap in public, there is no avoiding colds or the flu virus, I think, so it's better to just give up...although they do say that washing your hands after touching door knobs / before eating may help against cold (not entirely sure).
 
user116848
Like I said OCD.
 
@Arrowfar Ah Ok! Well, I am probably the least hygienic person in this room, possibly together with Terdon, so look at the others for OCD!
 
user116848
hehe
 
user116848
@Cerberus Sorry dude if I offended you :-D
 
4:30 PM
@Cerberus Yay for that!
 
Yay indeed!
 
user116848
Yay!
 
@Arrowfar You did not, it was just unexpected after the conversation that was going on.
 
user116848
I see.
 
@Arrowfar That's not OCD. OCD is when you wash your hands three times every time you hear a siren. It's a phobia if you wash your hands after touching any dorknob (or just wearing gloves).
 
user116848
4:31 PM
Yeah.
 
@Cerberus delivery made. but can use doorknob. don't have enough for tip
Now instead of phobia or OCD I'm having anxiety attack
 
user116848
Anxiety of what?
 
I'm also anarthrous.
Anxiety is just anxiety. That's why it's so bad. If you just had a phobia of spiders, you could just step on it.
 
@Mitch What you like to buy an article?
 
@Mitch Huh, wha?
@Mitch Bare footed?
 
user116848
4:39 PM
My browsing is crashing. I'll be back guys.
 
@Cerberus I don't have enough to tip the delivery guy bringing me gloves (who opened the door for me because I had no gloves) but if I did have enough, I'd be giving him disease carrying money.
@Cerberus anxious yet again
 
@Mitch Ahh such a difficult life.
But worry not, you will get those viruses anyway, if you lead a somewhat normal life.
 
@Cerberus Exactly, and I blame you. If it weren't for other people I wouldn't have all these hangups.
or viruses.
 
I apologize.
But I assure you your life expectancy is still high!
At least, ceteris paribus.
in English Language Learners, 1 min ago, by snailboat
Homophone air oars don't enter fear much with calm pre hent shin, butt they look kine dove silly :-)
 
user116848
Yeah a person with very poor English would talk like that. hehe
 
4:55 PM
Dart's clay were.
 
user116848
berry berry
 
user116848
:D
 
5:06 PM
eat ease.
 
user116848
But its mentally challenging to write like this, right? With correct words and all.
 
eat ease!
Yes, I agree.
It's fun though :D
 
5:27 PM
@Kit Don’t be distracted, but I’m sure you would have done a better job (and more tactful) than I did on the citation meta question. But I’m a bum and you have a job, so this way at least something was put out there. Given that Shog changed the help text in response, I feel like TPTB agree about explicit attribution.
But it is not going to be easy to convince people.
I don’t understand why you believe that “established reference works or sites of long standing” should somehow be exempted from the requirement of proper attribution. I see nothing in the SE Policy on References to support this notion — and everything to the contrary. Even the OED expects attribution. Furthermore, if what you are claiming were in fact true, then we would be stuck with everyone making their own personal decisions about what is and is not in that exempt category of recognition or longstandingness — which I’m sure you recognize is hopelessly subjective and therefore unworkable. — tchrist 4 mins ago
Ok, who slipped me the nicey-nice juice in my coffee this morning?
This question appears to be off-topic as currently worded because it is about the naming of identifiers in a computer program. However, it might be salvageable if somewhat reworded to place emphasis on English proper, then relegating the programming-relevant portion to an example at the end of the main question. It might also be something more appropriate to the Programmers SE site. — tchrist 3 mins ago
OMG I just typed ent moot!
macbook# ent moot
Where ent is my CLI program that pops up an OED entry.
Treebeard would be honored.
if (errno == ENOENT) {
     croak("Get a wife!");
}
 
5:51 PM
do you think MS are more evil than Apple are?
 
@tchrist I'm not distracted. I appreciate that you did it and we're rochambeauing to decide who should write the endorsing answer.
 
@KitFox Ok thanks.
Meanwhile, I’m practising my courtesan skills.
 
I'm sorry it is taking so long, but in the next day or two, one of us will post an answer succinctly supporting your position and giving a couple of clear examples and guidelines on how to support it.
 
No sorry needed.
 

« first day (1335 days earlier)      last day (3589 days later) »