English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

6:00 PM

From time to time, I do rather enjoy writing using a style that considers the use of a period before the end of one’s thought to be an admission of moral failure:

Given how within a few scant hours of when you posted your own adamantine — but by no means discourteous whatsoever — position on the notion that due source citation should be a matter not of exigency but of courtesy, The Powers That Be have seen fit to update our Help Center’s section on how They expect us to properly cite text which has been elsewhence copypasted into an SE posting, I cannot help but wonder whether said update may have in part mediated and perhaps even mollified your adamance with regard to this sensitive matter which is now under fruitful discussion here on ELU’s Meta. — tchrist 2 mins ago

Plus how often does one legitimately get to use elsewhence anyway? :)

I furthermore believe that the collocation of elsewhence copypasted has hitherto never been seen on the Internet.

KitFox

Wow.

I just don't know what to say to that.

oerkelens

6:16 PM

Good [insert your appropriate part of the day here] peeps!

@tchrist: you seem to have silenced the room :)

tchrist

@KitFox Did you forget to take a breath now and again while reading? :)

@oerkelens People are out of breath.

KitFox

@oerkelens Hullo!

@tchrist Oh, that's what happened.

tchrist

Thus spake Polonius.

oerkelens

It's a good thing I read fast - that way I am never out of breath before the full stop. :D

Almost never, that is

KitFox

@tchrist Ophelia.

tchrist

6:22 PM

Nice.

KitFox

Fourth line reeks, but I never got back to revise it.

8 of 18 use cases.

sighs

Andrew Leach

@KitFox Just done. I can edit in some examples, if it's needed.

tchrist

Mar 25 '13 at 13:09, by tchrist

“That reminds me of how I despite diligent and even prayer-filled attempts to rid myself of such traumatic experiences to this very
day still recall in dreams sleeping and waking those interminably long and bleary-eyed nights sequestered chez Larry in Mountain
View this past July during which I would cobble together tortuous monstrosities of innumerable clauses and moods and styles and
dubious-at-best antecedents bereft of periods or even semi-colons, chthonic monstrosities long since banished to the nethermost

KitFox

@AndrewLeach Oh? Already? Thank you!

tchrist

You’ll have to click on the link. It has truncated nearly the entire sentence.

KitFox

6:25 PM

Oh. I rather liked how it ended with "banished to the nethermost".

tchrist

> “That reminds me of how I despite diligent and even prayer-filled attempts to rid
myself of such traumatic experiences to this very day still recall in dreams
sleeping and waking those interminably long and bleary-eyed nights sequestered
chez Larry in Mountain View this past July during which I would cobble together
tortuous monstrosities of innumerable clauses and moods and styles and dubious-at-best
antecedents bereft of periods or even semi-colons, chthonic monstrosities long
since banished to the nethermost depths of RCS purgatory whence they cry out in

Don’t forget to breathe!

Note how it has not just a single period, it has just a single comma as well.

KitFox

I was just about to remark on the comma.

tchrist

It is a bit messy.

I could remove it and all the.

KitFox

Be still my cyanotic lips.

tchrist

I call it my “Immured with the Walls” sentence. :)

NB: with not within.

KitFox

6:29 PM

How droll.

I believe I once implied that I had had sexual relations with that man.

tchrist

I wrote that nearly 20 years ago.

KitFox

10 of 18.

I may be gaining momentum.

oerkelens

It reminds me of the time when, and this is long ago, in school I had upset a teacher enough to find myself ordered to write a four-page essay. I used a handful of comma;s and one full stop. He was my teacher of Dutch, and he could not find a single error, punctuation or otherwise.

tchrist

I should like to feed it to a constituency parser.

KitFox

It reminds me of my mother.

Mitch

6:32 PM

My mother? Let me tell you about my mother.

add that to Jarvis's auto response like 'stop -> hammertime'

tchrist

I have grown laconic in my dotage.

Mitch

There was a study done...

Andrew Leach

Laconic is good. I was always being asked to pad out my essays at school.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Oddly enough, no such request was ever made of me.

Andrew Leach

I'd never have guessed :)

tchrist

6:35 PM

People use my books as doorstops.

Mitch

But it was more of the reverse...an analysis of vocab usage by Agatha Christie over the lifetime of her books, one could almost ... what's the word... argh...you know... figure out... determine... prescribe that's closer diagnose that's it! diagnose that at some point she had developed Alzheimer's.

Andrew Leach

Do O'R do hardbacks?

Mitch

@AndrewLeach terse.

KitFox

My profs hated that I would hand in a three-page essay for a five-page assignment and they couldn't mark me down because that shit was tight.

Andrew Leach

Exactly.

KitFox

6:36 PM

"Get in and get out" is my motto.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach Vita longa, ars brevis

Andrew Leach

Essay writing for Marines.

KitFox

@AndrewLeach I think that's semper fi.

Or maybe [sic] semper tyrannis.

Mitch

"It depends" That works for everything.

oerkelens

@KitFox Never did that for any language, but my history teacher hated it when I answered in a couple of words instead of the expected half page... "Give a short description of the main causes of WWII" - so I answered "WWI". Dropped history as soon as I could.

KitFox

6:39 PM

hee hee

"American imperialism"

"Didn't some Duke get assassinated?"

oerkelens

@KitFox That was WWI, not II :P

KitFox

Hence the joke.

oerkelens

Yeah, but it would give the teacher an opportunity to give bad marks :P

KitFox

Oh. So you think American imperialism really was one of the roots of WWII?

miffed

oerkelens

@KitFox :X

If you forget to deny one of many fallacies, you logically agree?

KitFox

6:43 PM

Yes, in the sense that it gives me a reason to tease you.

oerkelens

:P

I'm just getting re-acclimatized after two weeks of Indian English and I'm getting teased :(

KitFox

Oh, sorry.

oerkelens

No need to feel sorry for that :)

KitFox

I am not meaning to be teasing you in such a teasing manner.

oerkelens

Well, as per my understanding your intentions were not malicious :)

KitFox

6:45 PM

I am overwhelmed by your emoticons.

And stuck on this use case. brb

oerkelens

I should de-learn my emoticon-overuse... it took me years to build up an emoticon-vocabulary, and now I tend to forget they are not rendered graphically in most places. And I am to lazy to include pictures...

KitFox

I try to write in stage directions instead.

grins, tongue lolling

oerkelens

:D

oops, I did it again

_smacks self_
_exit left_

KitFox

why are your underscores not working?

oerkelens

that was what I was just about to ask...

KitFox

6:56 PM

checks underscores

oerkelens

one line

KitFox

Hrm.

oerkelens

_first line_
_and a second one_

KitFox

Oh, did you multiline?

oerkelens

yups

KitFox

6:57 PM

It won't work that way.

oerkelens

I know better than to ask "why?"

KitFox

enjoys stating the obvious

something something something dark side.

Is "note is not displayed" or "note is removed from display" clearer?

You click the delete icon, and ...

I guess removed.

oerkelens

I can take my pick of answers from my own quick-answer list for my own bugs...

Depends - was the note visible at first? Then it is removed.

KitFox

It was visible, and you are removing it.

oerkelens

"Not displayed" gives me the impression it never was visible in the first place

KitFox

6:59 PM

Yeah, OK. Thanks.

Andrew Leach

But "no longer displayed" works.

#Justsayin.

oerkelens

From an end-user point of view, I like to think that if I "remove" something by clicking a button, it is actually destroyed. No longer displayed makes me think you are secretely keeping it, just hiding it from me.

KitFox

It's for use case.

Johan Larsson

@Reg I think bra 0 - ger 1, think it will be a boring game

Andrew Leach

Oh, what? Is that football thingy not over yet?!

JSBձոգչ

7:05 PM

@JohanLarsson nothing involving bras can be that boring

Matt Эллен

@AndrewLeach semi finals

KitFox

considers this

oerkelens

I never thought I'd root for Germany, but the day has actually come

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен So only four games to go!

oerkelens

I want to see a Dutch-German final

Revenge for 1974

Matt Эллен

7:07 PM

@AndrewLeach I think so!

KitFox

Revenge for Piangi.

Andrew Leach

Fine. I'll crawl back under my stone. I've got things to work on anyway.

KitFox

@AndrewLeach Your answer looks good.

Andrew Leach

Thanks. :)

KitFox

Time to fly. See you!

oerkelens

7:12 PM

:w

waves

Matt Эллен

CU

Mitch

8:03 PM

@KitFox In the Pacific.

Damkerng T.

Germany 1 - Brazil 0

Robusto

8:21 PM

It's over.

Damkerng T.

Germany 2 - Brazil 0

Germany 3 - Brazil 0

Mitch

4-0

I feel a disturbance in the Force. Millions of Brazilians crying

@Robusto It barely just started.

Matt Эллен

at 4-0 I don't see how it can keep going

Damkerng T.

I feel sorry for them.

Matt Эллен

maybe the Brazilians have a bet on?

tchrist

8:30 PM

@Mitch Estão em luto por tudo isso, sabes?

Johan Larsson

5-0

tchrist

En alegría fueron, pero ya en llanto regresan llorando.

Como chuva da primavera caem as suas lágrimas.

Cerberus

Hello.

What's wrong with Brazil?

Damkerng T.

I don't know. Everything happened so fast!

Cerberus

5–0 is a high score.

Mitch

8:41 PM

@oerkelens How about logical fallacies?

@tchrist It's their place and Germans win all the time. Let the Wookie win.

@Cerberus There's still a chance to come from behind!

there's no effing way

Cerberus

OK.

tchrist

Ni canción alguna cantarán regresando.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus defense is broken

RegDwigнt

@JohanLarsson come again? So sure about that? :P

See, that is why I never bet on games in advance.

Only afterwards.

And seriously, anyone who hasn't been watching: you just missed the best 16 minutes in the history of anything ever.

Johan Larsson

picked the winner 3/3

also game boring (over) now

RegDwigнt

8:50 PM

The German record is (from 2002, I think?) 8:0.

Against Saudi Arabia.

tchrist

Ite, missa est.

Cerberus

Saudi Arabia, sure.

But Brazil?

RegDwigнt

But of course they will fondly remember that game against the Swedes, just a couple months back.

And they are well advised to remember it.

Germany led 4:0 for 62 minutes.

Then Sweden scored. Then three minutes later, they scored again.

TRiG

Buzzfeed has a collection of 18 unusual words. Six I knew; one it would not have occurred to me to call unusual.

Cerberus

Johan destroyed them.

RegDwigнt

8:52 PM

And the German team basically disintegrated.

So ten minutes later, the Swedes scored again.

And then three minutes later, again.

4:4 was how it ended.

@Cerberus yeah I'm certain he of all people here will remember that game.

But I must be off for the second half, and so must you.

Room closed.

freezes room

Cerberus

Nooo...

Mitch

so so cold

tchrist

@TRiG I missed seven.

Be fine chaps and upvote Andrew:

2

A: What to do about missing source attributions?

The help text at How to reference material written by others is common to all sites. Here’s Math.SE’s version for comparison — it still has the Hemingway quote. That means that it’s a site-wide norm and expected of all posters on every Stack Exchange site. It’s certainly no more difficult to re...

@TRiG Fard is obsolete this side of the Orkneys.

@TRiG Indeed, I use several of those in routine conversation.

Cerberus

Like tmesis.

The ones that weren't "hilarious" I knew.

tchrist

Amongst others.

Cerberus

9:02 PM

Widdershins.

tchrist

Frisson, crepuscular, and sybarite are wholly unremarkable.

Catawumpus belongs to a jocular register.

Cerberus

Yeah.

I do have to admit I got the etymology of crepuscular wrong.

tchrist

Übermorgan und Bildungsroman are from the Sachsens.

Cerberus

Yes, Bildungsroman is unremarkable and foreign.

Overmorgen is unremarkable as such, but I didn't know there was an English word.

tchrist

And callipygian is nearly famous.

Cerberus

9:06 PM

I had forgotten what it meant again, except that it was something "funny".

tchrist

@Cerberus ’Tis overmorrow in Ænglespeech, and scant used since then.

Cerberus

I sawrit.

tchrist

They’ve somewhat overappropriated raphe.

> ǁ raphe ² /ˈreɪfiː/.

Also 8 rapha, 8–9 rhaphe, 20 raphé. Pl. raphæ.

Etymology: mod.L., a. Gr. ῥαφή seam, suture (of the skull, a wound, etc.).

1. Anat. A line of union between the two halves of an organ or part of the body, having the appearance of a seam. Also, a median plane between two halves of a part of the brain, esp. that of the medulla oblongata and that of the tegmentum of the mid-brain.

2. Bot. a. In certain ovules, a cord connecting the hilum with the chalaza, and usually appearing as a ridge. b. In the Umbelliferæ, the line of junction or suture between the carpels. c. A m…

Cf. philtrum

Cerberus

>
The raphe nucleus is a moderate-size cluster of nuclei found in the brain stem which releases serotonin to the rest of the brain. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants are believed to act at these nuclei.
The buccal raphe which is on the cheek and evidence of the fusion of the maxillary and mandibular processes.
The lingual raphe on the tongue. Obvious physical evidence of the lingual raphe includes the frenulum (also called the frenum), or band of mucous membrane that is visible under the tongue attaching it to the floor of the mouth. If this raphe is too tight at…

tchrist

> 2. Bot. a. In certain ovules, a cord connecting the hilum with the chalaza, and usually appearing as a ridge. b. In the Umbelliferæ, the line of junction or suture between the carpels. c. A median line or rib on the valves of diatoms.

Wow, like every one of those has a fancy word or three in it.

> ǁ chalaza /kəˈleɪzə/. Pl. chalazæ.

Etymology: mod.L., a. Gr. χάλαζα hail, any small lump or knot like a hail-stone. Cf. Fr. chalaze.

1. Zool. Each of the two membranous twisted strings by which the yolk-bag of an egg is bound to the lining membrane at the ends of the shell, and kept near the middle of the albumen, with the germinating point uppermost; the tread or treadle.
2. Bot. A spot on the seed where the nucleus joins the integuments.

Mitch

9:17 PM

@tchrist "That's not a word"

Those zoologists just make up stuff.

tchrist

I’m having the hardest of times wrapping my head around its pronunciation.

Mitch

kuh-lay-zuh... that's how they say to pronounce it but the spelling doesn't look that way.

tchrist

The Spanish pronounce that word the way it is spelled: /tʃɑˈlɑθɑ/.

chalaza. (Del gr. χάλαζα, galladura del huevo). 1. f. Cada uno de los dos filamentos que sostienen la yema del huevo en medio de la clara.

Arguably it should now be jalaza, but that’s water under the bridge.

/kəˈleɪzə/ is a long ways from /tʃɑˈlɑθɑ/.

Johan Larsson

9:35 PM

7-0

Cerberus

Wow.

Jason Marsh

Have you ever said "I love you" to your mum or dad?

I honestly have never said it to them before and I'm currently 22 years old

user116848

Hi again guys

user116848

---------> is here

user116848

:)

Jason Marsh

9:43 PM

hi

user116848

So the army guy is here I see

Jason Marsh

Yeah

I'm a Marine than a army guy

user116848

@Cerberus So can you give me good alternatives of "I see" when people are explaining something and we 'nod' etc.

Jason Marsh

"Uh huh"

Cerberus

Right.

OK.

That makes sense.

Jason Marsh

9:50 PM

In America, they say "Uh huh" all the time.

Cerberus

Everywhere.

user116848

I see :)

Jason Marsh

Roger that.

user116848

Jason can I ask you something? Just speak your mind, I will not mind. Right?

Jason Marsh

Uh huh.

I love cake, uh huh.

user116848

9:51 PM

What's your opinion on Pakistanis. Just asking?

user116848

:)

user116848

Not all bad right? :D

Jason Marsh

Uh huh, I don't know. Very nice and welcoming country.

user116848

Oh, I see. Thanks. America is very nice too. Haha.

Jason Marsh

I don't have any extensive idea about thereof country, however its name sounds a bit like Parkinson's disease though.

Sorry if it threatened you.

user116848

9:54 PM

No it's okay dude.

Jason Marsh

No offense, I wanted to crack some joke.

user116848

Yeah I can see that :)

Jason Marsh

Roger that.

user116848

Roger :)

user116848

So in movies they say "Whats your 20". So you know the 10 codes?

Jason Marsh

9:57 PM

I have no idea.

user116848

I guess being an marine corps guy you might know them.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus we forgot to qualify this year though

user116848

@Cerberus So "mm hmm" is better or "uh huh"? when writing acknowledgements.

Jason Marsh

Uh oh, your guess is wrong.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Forgot?

Johan Larsson

9:59 PM

tried and failed

Cerberus

@Arrowfar Umm there is little difference.

user116848

What is?

Cerberus

Ah.

Then what match between Sweden and Germany was Reg talking about?

Jason Marsh

Americans tend to use a filler such as "You know what I'm saying?" so in a context.

US Guy: Hey, I'd like to order a BigMac set with extra bacon in it, " U know wut am saying?"

McDonalds' guy: Uh huh, 1 BigMac set with extra bacon. Would you like diet coke with it? You know what I am saying?

Can you see the routine?

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus think it was qualification for European Cup-thing

user116848

10:03 PM

@JasonMarsh Yeah.

user116848

a sound in written form meaning agreement, 'yes', can also be used as a coy/sexy way of agreeing
1) 'you really like those chips dont you?' 'mm hmm.'

2) 'yo baby, you like when i touch you liek that?' 'mm hmm.' http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mmhmm

Jason Marsh

If you've ever watched a cartoon called "Pok'monsterz", they put a sound into written form such as PikaPika meaning of agreement "yes"

Ash: Pikachu, go and attack that creature!
Pickachu: PickaPicka!

user116848

lol

Jason Marsh

what's your real name?

RegDwigнt

user116848

10:12 PM

@JasonMarsh Mine?

Jason Marsh

Ye

MarshMarsh! (Yes Yes!)

user116848

Farooq

user116848

Yeah that's my name :)

Jason Marsh

Be honest with me, are you slightly against America in general?

user116848

i usually go by the nick name here .

user116848

10:17 PM

Me no. But some people here are you know.

user116848

You? What's your mindset? On all of this.

Jason Marsh

You might have already guessed, I am an American myself, you know?

I love my country! GO USA!

Could you tell me more about Pakistan?

user116848

10:32 PM

Nothing much. As I notice, people here just do their work and go to their home blah blah. Nothing extraordinary you know.

RegDwigнt

►

user116848

But here more and more people are pursuing higher education you know.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson O OK.

Johan Larsson

how can the OCD-joke only have four stars?

Jason Marsh

►

This is American

Look at how unhealthy food he is craving for

user116848

10:40 PM

@Cerberus Cerbs you have been here today for so long? haha. Watching football lately?

Cerberus

@Arrowfar What do you mean by "for so long"?

I usually leave my computer on 24/7.

Although I'm back on a time lock now, so my computer automatically shuts off when it's bed time...

user116848

@Cerberus I mean usually you come and go frequently. Your avatar goes blank. No?

user116848

It's a good thing though

Cerberus

Goes blank?

You mean it fades to a lighter shade?

That happens when you don't talk for a while.

It has happened to me several times today.

user116848

Yeah "blank" haha. I couldnt find the right word.

Mitch

10:47 PM

Ha ha

user116848

:D

Mitch

There's a shirt story about Stalin and his inner group, Beria, Zhukov? Et al.

Jason Marsh

hehe

You know, He He is an alternative to Ha ha

user116848

Yeah. I am not that stupid :)

Mitch

And there's a management guru working in group dynamics and team building...

And he gets them all Stalin include to lie in the floor...

user116848

10:50 PM

@Mitch What are you saying? I don't get it.

Mitch

In a circle, with your head laying on the previous guy's stomach

user116848

So it's a very slow written joke :D

Mitch

And then he instructs them each in order to say 'ha'

tchrist

@Mitch Laying what?

Mitch

Then around the circle again each saying 'ha ha'

Then again adding one more ha each time,

Until they're all laughing out of control, tears streaming down their faces, uncontrollable hilarity all around.

user116848

10:52 PM

@KitFox So who's the elephant in this room? :D
Just "mentioned" the elephant. That's the exercise/joke, right?

Mitch

Except for Stalin.

The End.

user116848

Yay!

KitFox

@Arrowfar Yes.

Mitch

Whee!

user116848

Stalin seems like a dry person

Mitch

10:53 PM

Stalin stories are funny. Except when they're nit

tchrist

@Kit Is this an ELL migration candidate?

Johan Larsson

@Arrowfar :)

tchrist

0

Q: Word order of participial modiﬁers and proper nouns

This is a follow-up to this earlier question. I want to say that I met a person and they were drunk at the time. Which should I use: I saw intoxicated John. I saw the intoxicated John. I saw John intoxicated. I know I could say I saw John, who was intoxicated, but I want to say it with one cl...

It’s a bit broad.

But very basic.

KitFox

Basic for what's correct. It's interesting how the meanings shift with different orderings.

I would say as it is, it would be good for ELL. I don't mind it here either though.

tchrist

k

user116848

10:57 PM

TTFN guys

Jason Marsh

@Arrowfar Here is a question for you to solve, otherwise you fail the immigration exam and must go back to wherever you come from.

1) Ping a female member in this chatroom.

user116848

@JasonMarsh I already did. You didn't notice?

user116848

Now you failed. haha

user116848

Good thing I noticed your question before going.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…