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9:00 PM
Ave is probably a correct ablative.
 
@FifaEarthCup2014 "Push" is an appropriate word for the context. However, the sentence might be better if you phrased it as "Your motorcycle can pass through this tunnel, as long as you don't drive it but merely push it" (with "drive" and "push", rather than "drive" and "pushing").
 
> abl. sing. avi and ave
Yup.
You know about the "i declination", right?
 
@TheodoreBroda Oh. I see. Parallelism in action. :D
 
c c
@medica fun fact I learned recently, puttin water on your face, reduce heart rate
 
@FifaEarthCup2014 Exactly!
 
9:01 PM
!!youtube walk like an egyptian
 
@cc called vasovagal response
 
Oh, how does that work?
 
@medica Please no aquatic ape theories!
 
@FifaEarthCup2014 In the UK we ride motorbikes, rather than drive them. Not sure about other countries.
 
c c
9:02 PM
right, yes, it's a reflex, the body prepares itself to be in water and minimize efforts
 
@tchrist :-)
 
We are neither pinnipeds nor cetaceans.
But we still react that way. It is . . . odd.
 
@AndrewLeach Oh, I see. I think you are correct.
 
@AndrewLeach We only drive cattle!
 
yes, those infernal combustions engines haven't reach our shores
 
9:03 PM
Which does not involve touching them with our pudenda.
 
@AndrewLeach I don’t think you can “drive” a bike. And I can’t tell you why.
 
You need an engine.
 
c c
this is why some police troops use water jet :)
 
@Cerberus Or drove them.
 
You drive cattle that you're not sitting on, and an engine is much like a cow.
@tchrist Well, my ancestors obviously never did, but some people still drive cattle!
 
9:04 PM
@Cerberus Bikes in a motorcross have engines.
 
@cc yep
 
One more thing, I am a bit confused when I have to use "instead of" and "rather than". Consider the following message: "Your motorcycle can pass through this tunnel as long as you push/walk it (instead of)/(rather than) ride it."
 
@tchrist Which is why I think Andrew rides his.
 
@cc very handy in drowning, too well, I mean in helping to save drowning victims. anyway...
 
@Cerberus While on the topic of Latin, I would like your opinion on how to best translate "first-year" or "freshman" (used as an adjective) to Latin. My guess is "anni primi", but I don't know if using the genitive would make it seem like the first year that the institution is opening, and not the first year of a person attending that institutuon.
 
9:05 PM
@Cerberus Andrew has cattle?
 
@FifaEarthCup2014 Both perfectly fine, but use a gerund, riding it.
 
A drover droves his kine. :)
 
@TheodoreBroda Umm I'd need to see a sentence.
@tchrist Oh, funny.
@JanusBahsJacquet A motorbike.
Or at least he talks about one, so he has one in mind.
 
@Cerberus No, no. Even a bike with an engine cannot be driven; it can only be ridden.
 
@tchrist Okay, well, there you go.
 
9:07 PM
But I cannot say why.
You drive a tractor, but ride on a lawnmower.
 
I think it's because any power source that you're not sitting on is like cattle.
 
but a motor bike can drive by
 
@skullpatrol don't forget that in the US, people don't die at home anymore; a lot of people are brought in at the end of life where in bygone days would have just died at home.
 
@tchrist do I only push a push mower?
 
A tractor is based on a vehicle that used to have its source of power at the front: cows or horses?
 
9:08 PM
@Cerberus The reason I asked you this was because I will be running for the student senate when my college freshman year commences in August. I was going to make a poster with me wearing a toga candida as a joke, with a caption reading "Theodore for freshman senator" in Latin. However, I have had difficulty translating that phrase.
 
@tchrist Perhaps it's something to do with exposure.
 
I'm hungry... it's been very instructional. Thanks @tchrist et al. Will be doing more deleting now (I hope)
 
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh I suppose. If it isn’t the kind you sit on.
@TheodoreBroda Oh good, candid photos here we come!
 
@TheodoreBroda Ah, nice!
 
@TheodoreBroda Just use novus.
 
9:10 PM
@medica what was the age of the youngest death you've witnessed?
 
@TheodoreBroda You could say senator primi anni: it would be just as clear English senator of the first year.
 
@Cerberus A freshman senator is an incoming one. Maybe that could be made to work.
 
I don't really know how this school system works...
 
@skullpatrol Do negatives count? And why so morbid?
 
@TheodoreBroda If you really want an adjective, you could coin one: senator primannualis would be perfectly comprehensible (though it’s not listed in dictionaries).
 
9:11 PM
@tchrist prebirth?
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Good suggestion! I do like logodaedaly.
 
@skullpatrol yes
 
We has an assessor primus in school, which was a student who concerned himself with things regarding the younger students.
 
@skullpatrol babies a few days old
 
Head boy. Lead apprentice.
 
9:12 PM
@Cerberus Sounds like a fancy Latin word for bully.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet However, classical Latin usually prefers several short words over a single long one...
 
@Cerberus As should we all.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet It does have to do with derrières!
 
@tchrist I meant "freshman" in the sense of "first year at college", not "first term in office" (although it would be my first term). They have a quota for freshman candidates, which was why I was using the term.
 
@tchrist True.
@TheodoreBroda I think Tchrist's suggestion of "novus" is not such a bad idea.
 
9:14 PM
@Cerberus True … but there are quite a few other, similar compounds with prim(i/o)-.
 
Certainly!
 
I’m going to go grab some Thai.
 
Yay food.
 
And then go to the marmers farket right by there.
 
@tchrist the formula for IQ is division by 0 at birth :-)
 
9:15 PM
@skullpatrol yeah, we don't count those who die in utero as witnessed deaths for obvious reasons... they're in utero, they can't be visually observed to die.
 
The word novus was used with consuls in Latin.
 
Would the Romans have called you Theodorus or Theodoros, I wonder (or, heaven forbid, Deodonum)? To naturalise or not to naturalise …
 
Probably Theodorus.
Not sure how old Adeodatus is...
 
Is he the god’s gift?
Or does he just adore them? :)
 
Naturally.
 
9:17 PM
God’s gift to high school politics, clearly. ;-)
 
Maybe he’s their golden boy.
 
On a similar note, would it be possible to use pro to mean running/standing for office in Latin (as in Theodore for senator)? Or would you use the preposition ad? Also, how do you say running for an office in Latin (the only word involving candidates that I could find was candidatus)? Usually, when you are a candidate, you are a candidate for something. Does this prepositional equivalent exist in Latin?
 
@tchrist He sings, he moves with grace, he entertains, no gesture out of place?
 
Now I must go shock my neighbourhood by running past their windows in my running outfit.
 
@tchrist, did I catch in passing that kuldeep (sister rape guy) has been banned now?
 
9:17 PM
His Mexican friends call him Theodorito.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet I go by Theodorus Barbatus. Not your classical tria nomina, but still...
 
@medica He has, yes. If you look at his profile page, it’s written at the top. Until May 25th next year.
 
@tchrist That means "Doritos of the gods".
 
@JanusBahsJacquet I'm not very sorry. what did he do this time?
 
@TheodoreBroda Crunchy. Tastes good with salsa.
 
9:19 PM
@medica “Voting irregularities” (whatever precisely that means in this case).
 
> “Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and taste good with milk.”
 
@TheodoreBroda I think you would usually say something like let Theodore be senator!. Normally, when someone has been elected, you would use a copula, like Theodorus senator creatus est.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Fraud. Socks.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet ohhh, juicy... one less to scam the system.
 
Or voting rings or some such. There are a bunch of different scams.
 
9:20 PM
@TheodoreBroda Theodorus Barbatus senatori primannuali
 
I don't think they would use a dative, nor pro.
 
Ablative?
 
@tchrist why would anyone use voting rings for rep points? It seems so insignificant.
 
Nor an ablative.
Perhaps a dative with senatus, but not with senator.
 
@medica Because they are children obsessed.
Maybe even manqués.
 
9:22 PM
@tchrist hmm... i guess. It is pretty childish.
 
@Cerberus Could I say "Candidatus senatorius primannualis/primi anni", instead?
 
Sounds good to me!
 
Yup, that’s probably the best.
(I keep wanting to put the whole thing in the essive … damn language doesn’t have nearly enough cases!)
 
@Cerberus Yes, it's a beautiful 1996 Chevy Suburban.
 
@Cerberus wondering, should "primi anni" be "anni primi"?
 
9:26 PM
@TheodoreBroda Just realised from your Latin moniker—you must be of Polish descent, then?
 
@TheodoreBroda You could use ambio as a verb, Theodorus ambit senatum.
@JanusBahsJacquet Essive?? Parbleu, what is that again?
@Mahnax Great!
@medica Both word orders are perfectly fine!
 
@Cerberus Heh. It's awful on gas. ~600km on a ~130L tank.
 
Wow!!
 
@Cerberus The case used to describe who or what something is, basically equivalent to ‘as X’ in English.
 
Pretty horrible. But gas is probably not super expensive, what does 1L cost you?
 
9:28 PM
Very useful case.
 
Ah, a subject complement and/or apposition?
 
I can't wait to be living in the city, where public transport actually works. Driving this thing is like burning money.
@Cerberus About $1.25 right now.
 
Right, it's twice as much here.
 
But I've seen gas as low as $0.88/L in the past couple years.
 
For short distances, you should be fine, right?
Wowie.
 
9:29 PM
@Cerberus Exactly. I only usually drive it to work, rarely to the city.
 
OK.
 
Multas gratias vobis ago, @JanusBahsJacquet et @Cerberus!
 
Gas is cheaper in the US.
 
@Cerberus Not necessarily a subject complement. In Finnish, for example, you could say, “Lapsena asuin vanhempien kanssa” (lapsena = essive of lapsi ‘kid’), “As a kid, I lived with my parents”).
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Are you Finnish?
 
9:30 PM
@TheodoreBroda Sit felix tuus ambitus!
 
@Mahnax Heavens no—that would be far too cold for me, most of the year!
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Ah OK, so what other languages do with prepositions or cases and/or word order.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Haha, OK. Interesting that you know Finnish then—it's not common.
 
I'll let you Finns alone for now, while I burn some other fuels. Bye!
 
See you later, Cerberus!
 
9:32 PM
@Mahnax Knowing random things in random (preferably obscure, if possible) languages is a passion of mine. :-)
Have a good run, @Cerberus
 
Gratias.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Cool! I'm planning to work on my Finnish this summer.
 
excurrit
 
How much have you got to work with already? Osaatko keskustella tavallisissa keskuteluissa?
 
@JanusBahsJacquet I had to GT that. I can only say some very basic things.
Plus I haven't touched it in a year.
 
9:38 PM
Still needs work, then. Mine is much the same (I was drawing a blank for keskustelu, had to look it up!). Took me about two years of semi-regular classes and about three weeks in Helsinki to feel like I was even remotely conversant, and that was about five years ago. So much of it is just gone now.
It’s a lovely wee lingo, though.
 
I have really good pronunciation, though, just due to growing up with lots of exposure to it.
@JanusBahsJacquet Yeah. I have a few books to work with, and I'm hoping that as I study, stuff comes back to me.
 
Lots of exposure? In Canada? I presume that makes you of Finnish origin somehow?
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, my dad was Finnish. I've gone to Finland to visit relatives a number of times.
He passed away a number of years ago, unfortunately, but my mom still speaks a good deal of Finnish—when she has to.
 
Sounds a familiar tale—I know a couple of Finnish-descendent people from New York, and they all speak some broken Finnish too, but only because their parents occasionally had to speak it with relatives and they picked up bits and pieces.
 
Yeah. I'm hoping to get to a level beyond "broken" and into "competent".
 
9:44 PM
That’ll take a while—be forewarned!
 
Tiedän.
:)
 
9:56 PM
-2
Q: Is "At which address should I come?" correct?

user3580455The sentence is, At which address should I come? Which preposition should be used? Can I use "on"?

Is that question specifically targeted at porn stars, I wonder?
 
c c
@RegDwigнt ok :D
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Only those tasteful porn stars who avoid ending sentences with a preposition.
 
@TheodoreBroda Naturally. One must have style, e’er as one comes.
 
Hello again.
 
That was a quick run!
 
10:07 PM
@JanusBahsJacquet You were the only one to propose the logical sentence "Where do I go?" Everyone was so enamored by the prepositional placement that they neglected to address the come/go distinction.
@JanusBahsJacquet Obviously it was quick; if it wasn't, it would be a walk.
 
@TheodoreBroda Nah, that Abhi-something feller said it first.
 
Thank you.
 
@TheodoreBroda You haven’t seen me run. ;-)
 
I totally had a 1536
Then a line of blues ruins everything
 
@Alraxite What game is that?
 
10:10 PM
Pesky blues.
 
@TheodoreBroda 2048
 
@TheodoreBroda threesjs.com
 
Oh! Not 2048, then.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet You that slow?
@Alraxite Well done!! So close to a 1536!
 
@Cerberus Thanks!
I'm surprised you remember this game.
 
10:13 PM
@Cerberus Nah, not really … just couldn’t think of a better comeback. Not particularly fast either, but decent. Usually aim for 5 km in about 24 minutes or so.
 
Ah, well, I ran about 5 km in 32 minutes or so.
I see no point in going faster, and I take short walking breaks.
@Alraxite Why! I still dream it.
 
Do you remember your score?
I know it was 60k+
I mean the tiles then.
 
I think I made it to 80k+, not sure.
 
Oh.
OK.
 
Your icons were tiles to me for ages.
I wanted to slide you around all the time.
 
10:16 PM
@Cerberus I know. cause you were always posting random 20k numbers.
> 30.258
 
@Cerberus I refuse to let myself take breaks (’cause once I start walking, I never get back to running properly again). Rarely run longer than about 7 km, though. I keep trying to get in proper good shape, but life keeps throwing me off—most recently, my good bout of going to the gym and being active was thwarted by a rollerskating accident, so my hands and knees have been bandaged for three weeks. :-/
 
@Alraxite Hehe true.
 
@Cerberus Is that a euphemism?!
 
Yeah, I'm not sure either!
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Oh, no! That's horrible. How are your hands and knees now?
I do start running again, after 30 seconds or so.
 
10:19 PM
He probably meant, 'slide them'.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet If so, I am unaware of it. Your icons, they are square. They look like tiles. Tiles need to be slid. You know the Tetris Effect?
@Alraxite Nope.
 
Well, one hand is unbandaged; the other will be in another two days or so, I think (it’s mostly healed, just still a bit thin-skinned). Knees will probably take a bit longer.
 
Ah, OK. Got it.
 
Ouch!
Are your knees infected?
 
@Cerberus Yeah, I got the intended meaning. But “I wanted to slide you around all the time” just sounds so much like a euphemism for something much dirtier.
 
10:20 PM
Tsk!
 
No, not infected—just healing more slowly, because the bandages have to be tighter on the knees (so they don’t slide off), meaning less air to help it heal
 
But, sure, I'd love to slide you guys around the other way.... wink
 
@Cerberus <-- I interpreted this as that you got my (above posted) board all the time.
 
Except that I'm probably on the brink of not being allowed to slide other people around any more, so we'd have to be quick!
@Alraxite Ohh no, anything over 60k was very rare.
 
10:21 PM
@Cerberus Recent dates going well, then?
 
Yes, I think so.
The only thing is that I absolutely love language, and my date is not really into languages. Not that his Dutch isn't impeccable, at least in speech, but...
 
Ooh, good for you! Same guy as last time? Or have there been half a dozen different ones in between? (You with your dates …)
 
Haha, yes.
 
But that’s why you come here, surely?
 
Exactly.
So I have different "outlets" for different urges.
 
10:23 PM
My ex was also rather indifferent to the whole language thing—didn’t make too much of a difference, except he sometimes had to tell me to shut up about it. :-þ
 
Haha.
Hmm.
But...isn't it hard when someone isn't really into something you can talk for hours about with friends?
I mean, it doesn't have to be about hardcore linguistics.
 
Not necessarily. Just find other stuff you have in common and can talk about for hours. And eventually, you’ll probably manage to win him over to the linguistic side, too. That’s what usually happens. ;-)
 
Haha, does it?
Smart plan.
 
Anyways. It’s half twelve now, and I have an Ancient Greek exam tomorrow (that I haven’t prepared for in any way whatsoever—spent all my time brushing up on my nonexistent Vedic and slightly less nonexistent Avestan for my Indo-Iranian exam yesterday), so I should probably scoot off to bed. :-)
 
Ohhh you have an Ancient-Greek exam!
What is it about?
Why didn't you say so earlier??
 
10:30 PM
Well, you learn to start appreciating each other’s interests gradually—and languages are such a universal thing that almost everyone has at least some interest in, so it’s easy to get sucked into.
 
That's true: he did bring up the topic of U and non U language, so that's something I can work with.
And we are both historians, so that is another favourite topic.
I want an Ancient-Greek exam too!!
(Oh, and he didn't do Latin or Greek in school...)
But I'm bitching.
 
Yeah, I do. I don’t know what it’ll be about yet, but probably the Odyssey (or possibly Pindar). It’s not too bad—I get a piece of text, then I have to read it out loud, translate it, answer some questions about syntax/morphology/stuff, and then etymologise perhaps half a dozen words or so, giving other Indo-European cognates. Get half an hour of preparation, then an hour of examination.
 
Pindar?
Pindar is not easy!
 
Nah, but it’s not that hard either. There’s much worse. And I get time to prepare.
 
And for the Odyssey your Homeric vocabulary needs to be up to date...
 
10:33 PM
The piece of text I get is only about ten lines or so.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet With a dictionary?
 
And it’s all text that we’ve read during the semester, not unknown text.
 
Ah OK, ten lines is doable.
 
Yup, I’m allowed a (non-etymological) dictionary.
 
Ohh OK, read text, that changes things. Then it's fine.
Can you take a picture of the exam?
Or is it oral?
 
10:34 PM
Yeah, it’s oral
 
Ah OK.
My Pindar is extremely rusty.
But I wish you good luck. Not that you'll need it.
 
Mine too—I can’t even remember what the text we read by him was about …
I’ll skim it tomorrow.
 
Hmm.
I remember lots of references to the historic background that you just had to know, or look up in commentaries.
 
I’m fairly confident about Greek, though. Toward the end of the semester, I felt like I could almost read unknown passages in Homer without looking words up and actually make good sense of it. Some words were just unknown, of course, but most of it I could translate without looking anything up.
 
Great! Homer is all about getting used to the vocabulary.
 
10:36 PM
It was Vedic that was my nightmare, ’cause there wasn’t a single line in my entire curriculum there where I didn’t have to look up at least three words. And the ‘lines’ in the Vedas are usually less than six words each!
 
Heh.
Is it very different from Sanskrit?
Not that I know Sanskrit.
All I know is that it has lots of a's.
 
No, it is Sanskrit, just a very archaic variant of it.
 
Ahh OK.
 
Yup, a’s everywhere.
 
How did Vedic go?
And what is Greek thes?
Theta epsilon sigma.
 
10:39 PM
Better than I’d hoped—I got an easy text, managed most of it without too many issues (thought Sū́riaḥ would be a goddess, i.e., feminine—but it turned out to be a he, which meant I’d gotten devó devī́ a bit backwards). And my Avestan got me up to an A.
Θες? That’s just the 2sg aor of τιθήμι, isn’t it? Or 2sg aor imp or something like that.
 
Imp, yes. Ding!
 
So it's not want?
 
If by that you mean imperative, not imperfect.
Same form as hes and dos.
 
@terdon Nope, it’s put!
 
Hello Hellas!
 
10:40 PM
Yes, imperative
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Damn.
 
I use impf or ipf for imperfect. :-)
 
OK I see your conjugations are in order, you will pass.
 
@Cerberus Hello Ολλας
 
Haha.
That's not what they say en Helladi, is it?
@terdon What would want be in New Greek?
 
10:41 PM
@terdon The AG form of θέλω is, IIRC, εθέλλω (which is also why the aorist is ήθελα and not έθελα in MG).
 
Νο, Ολλανδία for the country and youŕe an Ολλανδός.
 
AG?
 
Ancient Greek
 
@terdon Ah, yes.
Ah.
@JanusBahsJacquet Ethelô.
But thelô also exists.
 
Oh, I thought it was two … getting it mixed up with βάλλω and its ilk, probably.
 
10:43 PM
@Cerberus Θες
Well, Θέλεις; actually but Θες is an alternative.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Hmm does êthela exist? I didn't know it had a pseudo-sigmatic aorist, I only know êthelêsa...I think.
@JanusBahsJacquet Perhaps that form exists, could be Homeric?
@terdon Ah OK, interesting contraction.
 
Well, I don’t rightly know what the AG form is—but in MG, it’s ήθελα
 
OK that I do not speak.
 
Nope, seems AG only had ἐθέλησα, while MG only has ήθελα. They must have made up a sigmatic aorist along the way to go with the -ye/o-presents so common in resonant roots.
No, wait, that’s nonsense. Root aorist, not sigmatic aorist.
 
By resonant you mean mlnr?
 
10:48 PM
ἔβαλον, not ἔβαλλον.
Yup
 
That's not a root aorist?
 
Especially λ, since that’s where it’s clearest
 
A thematic aorist?
A root aorist is where the ending comes immediately after the root.
Like ebên.
 
Yes, you’re right. Thematic, not root.
I was thinking of ἔβαλα, which looks more like a root aorist.
 
There are yod presents that have a pseudo-sigmatic aorist, though. Like angello, êngeila.
But...root aorists never end on -a, do they?
 
10:52 PM
Gah, I’m too tired to think straight! I was mixing up root aorists and root perfects.
 
Ahh.
 
giggles
 
So a root perfect, is that like... augment + root + -a?
Or can root perfects have reduplication, like opôpa?
@tchrist Tsk.
 
Oh, dear. What of this chat?
 
10:54 PM
Root perfects are simply root + a; no augment, no reduplication. They’re quite rare in Greek, but relatively common in Indo-Iranian.
 
Ohh...
 
@Cerberus Can’t VTC chatsters.
 
Do we even have that in Greek? I guess the augment can be left out in Greek sometimes, notably epically, such as in Homer.
 
The only one I can think of is οἶδα, and that’s no longer even a true perfect.
 
@tchrist "Added to flag to close dialog", what does that even mean?
Ah, yes.
OK oida is as you say.
 
10:55 PM
 
At least, I don't think there is a hidden contracted augment there.
 
@tchrist Clearly, we’re not, no.
Nope, no hidden augment. It is straight from *u̯oi̯d-h₂(e).
 
@tchrist Since when do we flag to close questions, rather than either one or the other?
 
@Cerberus The flagging is for those who can’t vote to close.
 
@JanusBahsJacquet Right. So are all perfects ending from the a-laryngal?
@tchrist Oh, OK. I see.
 
10:57 PM
I think the blatant thing is for our write-in candidate, but I have no low-powered sock to test with.
 
Only the 1sg and 2sg (*sth₂e).
 
Yeah OK.
(But not the plural a's?)
 
3sg is just *e, which is how the two can be distinguished in Indo-Iranian: 1sg has a short vowel, 3sg has a long vowel (by Grassman’s Law)
 
Which "the two"?
Oh, those two forms in I.I.
So why no laryngal in 3sg?
And how about the pluperfect?
 

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