English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

16:00

@AndrewLeach Foreign policy, like which points? Tax policy: they want to pay less taxes to London? But then they will also receive less money from London, too, won't they? And Scotland is poor, so won't that be a net loss for their economy?

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Always about the oil. Couldn’t England just invade Kuwait or something to make up for it?

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Won't they get some of the offshore platforms?

Andrew Leach

Foreign policy like nuclear weapons.

tchrist

Or Norway. Norway’s closer.

Cerberus

Nuclear weapons are important to the Scotch?

tchrist

16:01

How about the Faroe Islands? They’re not doing anything important.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus they want rid of them. the UK store a bunch up there

Andrew Leach

Absence of nuclear weapons. It's a pity they get Faslane.

tchrist

@MattЭллен So do the Americans.

Cerberus

Matt Эллен

commute

Cerberus

16:02

@MattЭллен They don't want them physically present, is that the issue? Or do they not want to be part of a state that has nuclear weapons at all?

OK bye!

Mitch

@Cerberus "Yo, I'll tell you what the Scots want, what they really, really want"

Cerberus

@Cerberus Why won't Scotland get most of the northern platforms?

tchrist

He’s going to sing! He’s going to sing!

Cerberus

@Mitch That's a song, isn't it? hides

Mitch

@Cerberus You're looking at a beautiful babbling brook with moss covered stony banks. Pick a rock. Turn it over. See that worm? pick up the worm. See those maggots? Brush them aside. See that putrescent gore they're all living off of? Underneath that is Scotland.

Andrew Leach

16:03

@Cerberus They will. But they won't be winning for much longer.

Cerberus

@Mitch Ummm...

tchrist

@Cerberus I guess that rules out Maine.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Because all those platforms are almost dry?

Andrew Leach

Yup. Forty years at most. And it's downhill all the way to zero.

Mitch

@Cerberus Of course below that is the rest of England!

Cerberus

16:04

Note that -ing in Dutch is not a present participle, only a gerund or some other fringe categories.

@tchrist ?

@AndrewLeach Still a heck of a long time, and the Scotch part of the North Sea / Artic Sea is very large...

They may find new oil?

Mitch

@Cerberus You're sidestepping the issue which is that present participles in Dutch are in -Dutch-.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach And how about the southern wells, to be controlled by the UK, won't those dry up as well?

@Mitch Tell that to Andrew!

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus Possibly, but it will be far more expensive to extract than the existing fields (they did the low-hanging fruit first).

Cerberus

Okay.

I'm still puzzled about the main reasons why Scotland wants independence.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus I got the message across :-)

Mitch

16:07

@AndrewLeach swarming with low hanging fruit flies

Cerberus

You did!

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus I'm not sure that even the SNP know. Apart from "We can, so there!"

Mitch

@Cerberus Really? Why does Belgium want to split into two?

Cerberus

"Hey, let's lose our main source of money, which is a friendly country with a culture very similar to ours".

Mitch

Exactly. That's my point.

Cerberus

16:08

@Mitch Because Flanders is rich and wants to get rid of poor Wallonia.

Mainly.

KitFox

Braveheart. Too much Braveheart.

Mitch

@KitFox Oh right, and that mostly..

Cerberus

Wallonia doesn't want to split up, not really.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus Whereas Scotland is a net recipient in the UK and wants to cut off the hand that pays it.

Cerberus

And Brussels can't even be split up.

@AndrewLeach Exactly. So that bothers me.

I'm not sure about the Basques.

Andrew Leach

16:10

Depends who is wearing them.

Cerberus

I think it is at least partially a cultural reason in NI.

Friesland doesn't really want independence.

It is a bit like Scotland: northern, agrarian, but very proud. Fairly poor.

They do speak a different language.

kingdomoffrisia.webs.com

> The Kingdom of Frisia is an independent and sovereign micronation. The Kingdom operates as a government in exile, with its embassy and its current territorial enclave located within The Netherlands. The Kingdom of Frisia is not in any way associated with The Province of Fryslan, Friesland, Ost-Friesland, The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway or any of their government(s) offices or officers.

> The Kingdom claims the territory of the original Magna Frisia, which consists parts of the current countries Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands.

tchrist

@Mitch Because they don’t speak the same lingua, and were never real nātiōnēs to start with.

Cerberus

Plural?

tchrist

Well, ok.

Maybe a real natio.

Andrew Leach

Perhaps that's what is wrong with Scotland.

The Picts are revolting against the Saxons.

tchrist

16:15

If language is a proxy for culture, then this is like mixing vinegar and oil.

People would prefer to keep them in separate bottles until ready for war.

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Now??

tchrist

Are there any good examples of countries that comprise several culturally distinct nation-states within them each with its own distinct language and culture?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus Venera. Though I guess you've looked it up in wiki by now.

tchrist

That have worked out, I mean.

Switzerland?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yes.

Just like in English and German and French.

tchrist

16:17

@RegDwighт How quaint: a deer name!

RegDwighт

@tchrist not so fast. STDs, for example, are venerical diseases.

Andrew Leach

@Cerberus Yes. After a thousand years, they've been given just enough rope.

tchrist

> A monk there was, one made for mastery, / An outrider, who loved his venery.

@AndrewLeach A thousand years? Who still remembers anything after a thousand years?

Andrew Leach

Probably the Picts.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Venery would be the nominative plural of Venera.

tchrist

16:20

So much intersexion between our cultures.

Mitch

@KitFox k thx picts pls

tchrist

Separate cultures seem to like to have their own nations.

@RegDwighт Wait: more than one Venus?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I've not. Thanks!

@RegDwighт Not quite the same, but OK.

RegDwighт

@tchrist hate to break the news to you, but there's more than one Tom, too.

tchrist

Multiple Veneres! Oh my!

Cerberus

16:23

@tchrist How large do the alloglottic populations have to be, and how "successful" does the state have to be?

tchrist

Stupid feminine -us word.

RegDwighт

There's so many Veneres that some de Veneres are to host the Oscars.

tchrist

@RegDwighт That’s just what she calls her harem.

@Cerberus Fair question.

RegDwighт

They have to put them somewhere, so why not the Kodak Theater.

Sorry, it's not Kodak no more.

tchrist

What, where they’re fishing for salmon?

RegDwighт

16:24

Rushdie, yes.

tchrist

Best not mention that one.

RegDwighт

Fatwa lot of good will it do you.

tchrist

I mean, a lot of people want Limbaugh to die, but the NSA scans this log.

RegDwighт

The NSA can't begin to comprehend this room. Chill.

Cerberus

Many states exist or have existed with significant alloglottic populations.

tchrist

16:25

And we do our best to keep it that way.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus QED

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Alethes esti.

tchrist

@Cerberus Could you try that in English or Latin please, not Greek?

RegDwighт

Alethes eesti.

Cerberus

You don't know allo- and glott-/gloss-?

Latin is not fit for making long words.

tchrist

16:26

Hurts my head. Alopecia.

RegDwighт

Eesti

Eesti Vabariik on riik Põhja-Euroopas. Eesti piirneb põhjas üle Soome lahe Soome Vabariigiga, läänes üle Läänemere Rootsi Kuningriigiga, lõunas Läti Vabariigiga ja idas Venemaa Föderatsiooniga. Eesti pindala on tänapäeval 45 227 ruutkilomeetrit, Teise maailmasõja eel oli see praegusest suurem. Kaugemas ajaloos oli nüüdne Eesti Vabariigi territoorium üks osa Liivimaa territooriumist ning kuulus osaliselt või täielikult Taani, Rootsi, Saksa ja Vene riikide koosseisu. Eesti territooriumi põlisrahvas on eestlased. Tänapäeval on Eesti demokraatlik parlamentaarne vabariik. Eesti Vabariigi terr...

tchrist

Bachelor’s buttons!

Cerberus

Estonian language?

RegDwighт

You're Estonian language.

Cerberus

Related to Suomi, yes, yes.

RegDwighт

16:27

It says riik right there.

You of all people should be able to tell rijk from taal.

tchrist

If you mean multilingual, why not say it?

@RegDwighт Haven’t you eaten yet?

Cerberus

@RegDwighт The country, then.

Andrew Leach

Need to go. Nice chatting again (it may not be as long an absence next time: beware!)

RegDwighт

@tchrist I have not. Why what you have on offer?

@AndrewLeach CU

Cerberus

@AndrewLeach Bai! And Yay!

tchrist

16:28

I have fresh tomatoes to go on a Swiss-cheese sandwich. That’s what I just had at least.

RegDwighт

Well I'm taking them.

Aim well.

tchrist

My neighbors are jealous.

RegDwighт

Neighbors are always jealous. That's their job. Their definition.

tchrist

Oh, you have an HOA too, eh?

RegDwighт

I am too lazy to google that.

tchrist

16:30

Ho Moaners Association

RegDwighт

BTW BRB watering tomatoes.

tchrist

They’re all filled with hoes and moaners.

And people moaning about your hoeing.

And your fences.

And the color of your trim.

And the length of your grass.

And its species.

And the number of trees that are not on your property.

And the foxes.

And the type of wood used in your gate.

And whether your stone walls are cracking.

And what you are going to do about it.

Cerberus

@tchrist So can you make your conditions a bit more specific?

How large do the groups have to be?

How successful does the state have to be?

tchrist

I just find that the “countries” that haven’t had a good long-term marriage of cultures have been those of recent vintage that got pasted together by some external power.

And they don’t like it.

So they file for divorce at the nationalist level.

Cerberus

To some extent, yes.

But most Western-Europea countries ought to be used to it now, and yet they keep complaining.

Belgium is about the same age as your country...

Slightly younger.

tchrist

16:34

But Belgium was there before it became a country.

America was not.

Cerberus

That is true.

tchrist

It’s fresh and new, not old wine in new bottles.

Cerberus

So I guess it is 200 years older, under Spanish and Austrian rule.

And yet they keep complaining.

tchrist

Older.

Been people there since like forever.

Cerberus

Not really.

tchrist

16:35

Same people are still there.

Like with Cataluña and the Basque Country. Or countries.

Cerberus

It was not a unit in any way before ca. 1600.

tchrist

This is all probably relevant to the Middle East and Africa, too.

Cerberus

But anyway, I've given you one of many counter-examples, i.e. countries that still continue to have problems with certain groups even after centuries.

tchrist

What, Finland?

Cerberus

Belgium!

tchrist

16:37

Sigh.

They are still not talking the same language.

And so are not the same culture.

Is Switzerland? I don’t know. I’ve only spent much time in the French part.

I still think of Belgium as Flanders plus some piece of France.

Shoot me.

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't understand, you were talking about people with different languages living together "successfully" in the same state?

There are few problems about autonomy in Switzerland.

Just as there are few in the Netherlands.

Train collides with truck. Train wins.

17 people were hurt, but not seriously hurt.

tchrist

17:15

@Cerberus I didn't think there were.

Cerberus

17:43

Remember, the installer is watching the camera for the checksum it generated, so you have to scan it using your own phone.

RegDwighт

17:59

Okay this takes the cake for the awesomest bug ever:

Xerox photocopiers randomly alter numbers in scanned documents

tchrist

@RegDwighт O.M.F.G.!

KitFox

> Several mails I got suggest that the xerox machines use JBIG2 for compression. This algorithm creates a dictionary of image patches it finds “similar”. Those patches then get reused instead of the original image data, as long as the error generated by them is not “too high”. Makes sense.

That seems like a reasonable explanation. It's what I thought when I looked at the first example.

tchrist

It may be a reasonable explanation, but that doesn’t make it reasonable behavior. :)

Or produce reasonable results.

KitFox

Because OP says "random" numbers, but they aren't. They are numbers from elsewhere on the picture.

In the first example. And OCR-type errors in the other examples.

tchrist

“Random” is an unfortunate word.

MετάEd

18:16

@RegDwighт Wow.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Wow! Impressive.

That's pretty stupid.

A very crude compressive algorithm that works OK on non-symbolic images but creates misleading artefacts in images containing small symbols.

MετάEd

@KitFox Right. It's an apparently unsystematic alteration

Cerberus

Set it to a much smaller size.

RegDwighт

Turning a 21.11 into a 14.13 is quite an artefact.

Cerberus

It's huge.

And misleading.

tchrist

18:22

Look out, Mars Landers!

Cerberus

Most artefacts are either one or the other, but not both.

tchrist

Call it 25% accurate.

RegDwighт

Whoseever idea was it to call artefacts arteFACTS?

tchrist

aren’tfacts

RegDwighт

Artelies.

Cerberus

18:24

You know what facere means...to do, make.

KitFox

Anyone promoting their arteopinions as artefacts in a way that is...

RegDwighт

Art makers, right.

Cerberus

Event though you missed your Latinum!

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I never missed it. Perhaps shed a tear once.

Cerberus

Fact-um = the passive past participle, "made, done".

RegDwighт

18:25

This is getting off-topic real fast.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Navigated around it in a weird curve, then?

Yay, rain!

tchrist

@Cerberus Someday you’re going to get flagged for that, just as soon as we have text-to-speech for Latin.

RegDwighт

Who gives a flying fact.

tchrist

It’s artificial, right?

Cerberus

Hmm?

tchrist

18:27

Officially and all?

Is it not the product of artifice?

Cerberus

Palestinians are very photogenic.

RegDwighт

I see cabbages.

Cerberus

Boy grabbing shirt of father who was peacefully protesting against Israeli land grabs but is now being deported by Israelians.

RegDwighт

Well they grabbed the land, he grabs the shirt. I'd say they're quits.

tchrist

If an artifex though his arts should craft something of artifice, is this not a true artifact despite being artificial?

Cerberus

18:29

secure.avaaz.org/en/palestines_nonviolent_hope_ed2

tchrist

@Cerberus It’s the night-vision goggles that do it.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Except that the son grabbed what is his.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus it is not his shirt.

@tchrist I will google for "slow clap" some other time.

tchrist

macbook# oed artif | wc -l
      29
macbook# oed artef | wc -l
       4

Why???

Cerberus

@RegDwighт But it is still his.

@tchrist ?

RegDwighт

18:31

Well now that he's grabbed it, it is.

That's how it works.

Cerberus

His father is his.

RegDwighт

So my bicycle is yours because I am your acquaintance?

tchrist

@Cerberus Hobgoblins, my dear. It’s the hobgoblins again.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I know you see me that way, but I am not really your father.

tchrist

Quoth Darth Doggie.

Cerberus

18:33

It's OK to look up to me, though.

RegDwighт

So your father's wife is also your wife?

That sure saves on the wedding costs.

Cerberus

Not your wife, but still something of yours. Your mother.

tchrist

@RegDwighт And the bedding costs.

Ooh, he just said tu madre.

RegDwighт

Y tu mama tambien.

Cerberus

Todas!

tchrist

18:34

No, yo no mamo mucho.

RegDwighт

That's because you're no marinero, just a capitan.

tchrist

Ni en cuanto a la chupada.

searches for Lollipop Quartet

RegDwighт

Search for Pontifex Quartet, too.

See, even the Pontifex is not so bold as to call himself Pontifacts.

tchrist

What’s that, the Trinity Plus One?

RegDwighт

Who're you, the Wachowski Starship?

That's another one Cerberus won't get.

tchrist

18:37

Yeah, but you don’t have to rub it in.

Cerberus

I will get food instead.

@tchrist Preferably not the food.

tchrist

a gathering of angels appeared above his head

and sang to him a song of hope, and this is what they said:

Come flail away, come flail away, come flail away at me, babe

MετάEd

@tchrist <- 'Scuse me while I kiss this guy.

tchrist

averts his eyes

Never, ever keep your eyes open when being kissed. Never.

KitFox

Unless you aren't into it.

tchrist

18:42

Ok, small dogs don’t count.

Big dogs, I dunno. Ask @Cerb.

See what I mean?

Cerberus

What?

I wonder why we have the instinct to close our eyes during kissing.

Johan Larsson

in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, May 2 at 20:19, by FredOverflow

Scope like an Egyptian

tchrist

But just then the song climaxes in a weird screamgasm and the band takes a break. The crowd responds with the ultimate compliment, chanting “Niu bi!” and pumping their fists. The phrase can be roughly translated as “fuck yeah!” but it literally means “cow’s vagina.”

> “Do you know any Perl?” Li asked him. Perl is a programming language often used to analyze genomic data. Zhao admitted he did not; in fact, he had no programming skills at all. Li handed him a massive textbook, Programming Perl. There were only two weeks left in the camp, so this would get rid of the kid for good.

> A few days later, Zhao returned. “I finished it,” he said. “The problems are kind of boring. Do you have anything harder? ”Perl is a famously complicated language that takes university students a full year to learn. So Li gave him a large DNA data set and a complicated statistical problem. That should do it. But Zhao returned later that day. “Finished.” Not only was it finished—and correct—but Zhao had even built a slick interface on top of the data.

Ok, they just lost all cred for their pet genius.

“famously complicated language that takes uni students a full year to learn”?

What is this, the short-bus university?

Good thing my books are sold by weight not by volume, as some settling of contents may have occurred during shipping.

RegDwighт

19:00

BTW, did you make sure to celebrate today's 1st second of the 2nd minute of the 3rd hour of the 5th day of the 8th month of the 13th year of the 21st century?

tchrist

> There was no Chinese IQ test.

@RegDwighт heh

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт damn. I didn't even notice

RegDwighт

I am told that will never happen again. Ever.

tchrist

> If this is right, then the difference between a brilliant 150-IQ person and an average 100-IQ person comes down to DNA typos at perhaps 100 of those 10,000 places.

They use brillant to mean normal, and they use average to mean stupid.

RegDwighт

3pt is pretty normal where I come from.

tchrist

19:02

Definitely pandering to the masses.

Z=+3 you mean? Yeah, it’s normal for good people in our industry.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт indeed, but there will be other ways to notice numerological coincidence

tchrist

Wait, or is that three pints?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Many other ways.

tchrist

macbook# units '3 brpints' floz
	* 57.645714
	/ 0.017347343

Floozies.

Matt Эллен

1 second of the 2nd minute of the 3rd hour of the 5th day of the 8th month of the year 132134

KitFox

19:04

OK, I missed that one.

Oh. Dur.

corrects parsing algorithm

Matt Эллен

or just celebrate every morning at 11:23:58

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен by that date calendars will have been replaced with, um, flying cars.

People will have been replaced with flying cars, too.

Matt Эллен

Earth will be cybertron

RegDwighт

And this chat will still be incomprehensible.

KitFox

> We know the government is already cracking down on LGBT Russians, arresting and fining their own citizens for nothing more than publicly supporting LGBT equality.

Man, you have to admire the way propaganda is put together.

tchrist

19:11

@KitFox Which way?

KitFox

Every way.

tchrist

Hm.

Lose.

KitFox

Loose?

RegDwighт

Lose is German for lottery tickets.

Matt Эллен

What is German German for?

Mahnax

19:13

@KitFox I learned an interesting—but perhaps untrue—factoid about propaganda at Suomenlinna back in July.

KitFox

@Mahnax Did it involve me having sex with anyone? Those are generally true.

Matt Эллен

:D

Mahnax

@KitFox Not unless you had sex with some French and British officials during the Crimean war.

KitFox

Oh. I did, as a matter of fact.

I was a very sexy Russian agent.

Mahnax

Well, perhaps I shall go on. Suomenlinna was built to be an "undefeatable island fortress".

When the Crimean war happened, it was under Russian control, and they weren't really prepared for any sort of attacks. It had old cannons, few people, etc.

KitFox

19:16

Do go on.

Mahnax

So France and England sent a bunch of boats over to it, shelled the living daylights out of the place for 48 hours (out of the range of Suomenlinna's old cannons, of course), and then sailed back home, boasting about "the defeat of the undefeatable fortress".

Johan Larsson

in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 mins ago, by Tom W

At last, a worthy use of hacking http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23575249

Mahnax

This—apparently—was one of the earliest examples of European propaganda.

Or so saith the guide.

KitFox

Oh.

That's not as interesting as how I caused unrest in Europe. But whatever. Your story is truer.

Mahnax

Hehe.

MετάEd

19:20

@JohanLarsson Reading between the lines, this is a Bluetooth device.

KitFox

So but Sevastopol, though. I mean, the Crimean War was pretty interesting in very many ways.

Johan Larsson

@MετάEd because of the pin?

Matt Эллен

Oh! Crimea river

MετάEd

@JohanLarsson Yes and the limited distance.

tchrist

moons your river

KitFox

19:23

@MattЭллен thwack

MετάEd

@JohanLarsson Oh. It is in the article. "The limited range of bluetooth"

So the range is 1, 10, or 100 meters depending on the power class, but probably 10 meters.

Matt Эллен

:D

MετάEd

@JohanLarsson So basically you can be hacked by your upstairs neighbor.

Johan Larsson

They should make a 1000 m with 400V, could come in handy for toilets I think.

Long distance bidet.

KitFox

Hahaha

Cerberus

19:38

@Mahnax Very nice. It looks less impenetrable in the satellite picture, though.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson So I don't have to go to France to wash my socks?

Robusto

Did anyone see the edit someone made, the comment for which was "My editering"?

KitFox

I did.

Robusto

That is the self-assuredness of the truly ignorant speaking.

KitFox

I thought it was funny.

Johan Larsson

19:43

@Mitch :)

Robusto

I agree.

KitFox

Really? Like my sense of humoring is returning?

Robusto

Hahahahaha.

No. Not like that.

Mitch

@tchrist ha ha. they trolled you directly.

@Robusto I can't because it's correctly stemmed to 'edit'.

Robusto

Can't? Or won't?

KitFox

19:48

sad panda

Mitch

@Robusto mayn't.

Robusto

That's loser talk.

Mitch

Lose lips sink...what the hell are you doing without lips?

RegDwighт

@JohanLarsson Long distance bidet, you say?

Johan Larsson

Is it yours? How many bars?

RegDwighт

19:55

It's not a cell phone, silly.

Johan Larsson

24 MPa industrial strength gets the job done. Then you can also cut some metal.

RegDwighт

It's an American Standard SaniStand.

Sanistand

Sanistand was a urinal for women manufactured by Japanese toilet maker giant TOTO from 1951 to 1971 and by American Standard from 1950 to 1973. It appeared in a bathroom for female athletes during the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo. The urinal encouraged women to urinate from a standing position, without the need to sit on a shared seat. See also *Female urination device *Pollee External links * [http://www.toto.co.jp/tips/2000/03/20.htm TOTO Library article, March 20, 2000] * [http://www.toto.co.jp/kids/alacarte/04.htm TOTO Kids article on female urinals] * [http://www.rrmatic.org/girls/...

> The urinal encouraged women to urinate from a standing position

That's what feminism will get you.

Johan Larsson

We had that in Sweden a couple of years ago, some kind of portable device to use. I never tried it.

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: Fate had other ideas

posted on August 05, 2013 by sgdi

There once was a sad man from Florence Whose tears were descending like torrents All of his life He’d wanted a wife He now had a husband called Laurence

Mitch

@RegDwighт Ok, so what's a GoGirl? Simply put, GoGirl is the way to stand up to crowded, disgusting, distant or non-existent bathrooms. It's a female urination device (sometimes called a FUD) that allows you to pee while standing up. It's neat. It's discreet. It's hygienic

RegDwighт

20:09

Yeah yeah I know these.

Mitch

Cerberus

Yay!

RegDwighт

I totally misread that as "Go Girls are whiners".

True story.

Freud's underwear will do that to you.

And that's it from me, must get up real early tomorrow.

Buona notte.

Robusto

"It's a female urination device (sometimes called a FUD)." Funny, I thought FUD stood for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Well, I guess that describes female urination too.

Johan Larsson

yeah same thing

KitFox

20:23

@RegDwighт I misread it as "Go Girls are wieners."

Later.

Cerberus

20:37

@Robusto Like having the latest version of Windows...

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