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12:11 AM
@Cerberus What's sad is that things that are supposed to help kids are a source of nastiness.
@MετάEd Ben-Gay is some sort of heating sports cream, right?
But humanity has mostly won the battle of emancipation.
Do you think so?
The battle against religion has also been won.
12:13 AM
If it had, there would not be the atmosphere that that article is talking about.
Let me put it this way: the enemy has been mortally wounded and will only lose more strength over time, not gain.
I wish you would refine your battle a bit.
I still think that it needn’t be religion that is the real problem here.
Perhaps not.
Although you look at the crap in the Middle East, and then I backpedal.
The Middle East is backward.
12:16 AM
To us sybarites, no doubt that is so. :)
Social change hasn't come from thence since the Middle Ages.
Possibly the early Renaissance.
I think if I had come across the name “Pascal Tessier”, knowing it was an American but not the sex, I might hesitate about whether to say he or she, since Americans think Pascal is a girl’s name. Probably doesn’t help the lad, that.
That's weird.
Social change from the Middle East, from the Arabs, or from the Moslems?
Ehh those two coincide.
12:19 AM
That would be three, and yes, I can do Venn diagrams, too. :)
@tchrist There used to be TV ads.
I don’t know much of it.
Meaning, social change.
I thought you meant, "social change, did it come from the Arabs, or from the Moslems?".
From the MidEast/Arabs/Moslems.
Chance not change?
That is something else.
Something worth pondering, though.
Nearly all Arabs having been Moslems for more than a millennium, the difference is not relevant here.
12:21 AM
Am I spelling that right?
I'm on weirdo meds dithering my brain.
Spelling what right?
I think many alternative spellings are used.
Ok. I would pronounce it Muslim.
Muslim is probably more common.
12:22 AM
@MετάEd Did the product go away, or just the ads?
Cf. Muhammad, Mohamed, Mohamet, Mahomet...etc. etc.
They do a lot of stories on NPR about that part of the world, and the subcontinent.
It is incredible what goes on there, or what doesn’t.
The new generation, I don’t know. They seem so hopeful.
It is an explosive region.
It won't stabilise for a while.
12:24 AM
Not sure it ever will.
The first step in fixing it would probably be to remove Israel.
Don’t know that stasis is a natural or inevitable end state.
Go Iran Go!
If they can’t nuke ’em, nobody can.
That really does not go over well.
Nobody can.
Only a peaceful removal would work, and that will never happen.
@tchrist According to Google it's still there.
Dunno about the ads. I never watch TV.
Unless someday "we" stop supporting Israel.
12:26 AM
If only Israel would not be threatening to annihilate all the countries around it.
I would be touchy too if somebody told me I should not exist.
It is a vicious circle.
And you got Jaspered.
The only stuff about Israel that really freaks me out is the ultras.
And we can thank England.
12:27 AM
The Jews came and bought the land. Friction grew. The Jews felt threatened. They started treating their neighbours worse. Arabs started to become more violent against Israel. Etc.
@MετάEd Because there will always be England?
@MετάEd Yeah...God, they were stupid.
> Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Moving large numbers of organisms across a long distance in a short period of time is sure to create great destruction.
Or is that resort? I forget.
12:30 AM
Except possibly to a lifeless area.
You prefer countries where women are property, where there is no democratically elected government? Israel is the best thing that ever happened to that part of the country: they are not in the Middle Ages.
Everyone is.
Or so it feels like.
Yes, I can carve out exceptions.
But not many.
They are partly in the Middle Ages...women sit in special compartments on certain bus lines in Israelian Jerusalem.
I told you the Israeli ultras bugged me.
I don't dislike Israelian society more than Arab societies, but it is in the wrong place at the wrong time.
And I would have expected more of a Western society.
I would like to suggest, in the nicest way possible, that you consider using Israeli not *Israelian. Honest.
Oh well. At least it isn’t Israelite. That would be explosive.
12:35 AM
I have no preference. We mostly use Israeli and Israelisch in Dutch, so I thought Israelian would be nice for a change.
But I couldn't care less, to be honest.
I say it because it sounds a bit, well, NNS.
As long as I am not routinely referring to Dutchmen as "prostitutes" and Americans as "fatties", I think I'm doing all right.
I haven’t heard/seen/read it before.
I know.
I didn't think it was in use.
You know Dutchmen who are prostitutes? I thought you lived in the female-strumpet zone.
12:38 AM
I don't know any personally. But I might use the word "prostitute" instead of "Dutchman" if I wanted to provoke people or something.
There are certainly more provocative synonyms. Whore usually does the trick. Or turns.
The old flourish of strumpets rides again.
A: How are silent letters important?

CerberusThere are several reasons, three of which stand out: If you keep the original spelling, connections to the same word used in other languages remain intact. In honest and psychology, for example, this makes it easier for people to communicate across English, French, Latin, Greek, etc. In German,...

@simchona Awwwww!
12:40 AM
I need one more reopen-vote, please...
@Cerberus uh no nota at all. There are a number of Arabs that are Christian (mostly in Syria, Lebanon and Israel. Also, the great majority of Muslims are non-Arab. There are more Muslims in -each- of India and Pakistan and Iran and Indonesia than there are Arabs. (all those places are decidedly not Arabs. I don't know if Egyptians and west are considered Arabs or not.
@simchona So that's how you see yourself, huh?
@Cerberus Done
@Cerberus Cute and cuddly? Yes.
@sim What species?
I can't reopen there!!
12:41 AM
@Mitch Of course, but we were talking about the Middle East.
In very general terms.
@tchrist Fennec foxes
The distinction was really not relevant there.
@simchona Thanks!
Last one:
And in the Middle East in very general terms I would include all those Arab Christians, and on the other hand the Turks and Iranians
I was wondering whether it was Vulpes, and it appears so.
12:42 AM
@Mitch Well, you tried. That's good enough for me.
@simchona But whyyyy?
Don’t hold out on us!
@simchona Kit's daughter.
@tchrist Because there were only like, three in the photoset I found
The last one you have to look at a while to convince yourself to go down the canine not the feline branch. Strange.
12:44 AM
What is the rep cap again?
“All the better to hear you with, my dear!”
12:48 AM
hides in forest
hides in Fornost
Was it called that?
That, too.
It was in the north...
That was the English translation.
12:51 AM
The Breelanders called it Deadman’s Dike.
Norbury of the Kings was what the hobbits called it.
I always read Fornost as a riff on Far North.
I remember none other than the elven name.
I can't think of any other name with for.
sneezes really hard, 4 times
No doubt there are many.
12:54 AM
Yeah, like that.
The Ice Bay of Forochel.
@tchrist I know that name. What was it again? A palace or something?
The Forgotten Caves. :)
Forlindon and Forochel I can locate.
Formenos was the stronghold of the Fëanorians in Valinor.
12:55 AM
Ah, I knew it.
In the north, in fact.
That's why they walked to Middle Earth over the northern ice.
Forodwaith = Northerland
There aren’t all that many, which surprises me a tad given the importance of the North.
> ‘Deadmen’s Dike, you say. So it has been called for long years; but its right name, Barliman, is Fornost Erain, Norbury of the Kings.’ [Gandalf]
12:59 AM
Right, right.
Fornost = north fortress, Erain = pl of Aran.
I don’t know that they did genitive plurals in Sindarin the way they did in Quenya.
They weren’t all that case-minded, it seems, in the newer Sindarin.
Did you ever bother to learn Tolkien's tongues?
Well, I didn’t bother not to, would be more like it.
Morphemes and morphology stick with you, whether you will or nill.
Ered Mithrin and such instantly translate without thinking.
I have more trouble with Smaug and Sméagol, frankly.
Since I have no Old English to speak of.
Oh, and smials.
All three of which are related.
But to real languages, not invented ones.
I was 10.
I had read it 13 times before I turned 13.
1:05 AM
I liked the history more than the language.
I do not know the first time.
Q: The other meanings of twopence

LynneI'm a 66 y.o. Still working lady, marred three grown up children and grandchildren, and today I learn the "other" meaning of twopence. I've really enjoyed reading all the comments, which show you are never to old to learn. As many of you write, mothers would use a nick name for 'private' parts ...

I may have been 12?
And I never reread the entire book later.
1:05 AM
She’s spelt tuppence wrong.
@tchrist When Ian McKellen was interviewed he was asked to give the "correct" pronunciation of Smeagol. He pronounced it wrong, of course.
Yes, I know.
Bovered me.
But he does better at Fíli and Kíli than Armitage does.
I mean, what the fuck do they think the long mark is for, anyway?
Did you notice that Dáin and Thráin became convention diphthongs?
What the fuck do they know about diphthongs either?
Seems to me so did Glóin.
Who is no longer a glowin’ glede.
But some Bored of the Rings Groiner.
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey is casting doubt all over Jackson's TLoTR in retrospect.
1:10 AM
Really? Hm.
There was some interview about how some cast members (plural) just never could get the pronunciations down.
I think most people read it with their own invented pronunciations, and those get stuck.
@tchrist You sound surprised.
Surprised, sure.
Because I do not see what is new there.
Jackson has always been dull with his over-indulgence.
@tchrist I even have many names that I wouldn't pronounce at all. Or even spell. I just recognise their word shapes.
Now and then he gets things right, of course.
It is a Hollywood film, what do you expect?
Or a film intended for a mass audience anyway.
1:13 AM
The first of the three films was certainly the best.
Still pales in comparison to the book.
@Cerberus Of whom half are below average.
Of course.
And the average is looooooow.
If you stand 3 or 4 standard deviations above the mean, just imagine those below it.
It is very hard.
Salvor Hardin!
1:16 AM
Ding ding ding.
I'm a little behind.
Lots of exercise?
Salve aedia!
1:19 AM
I think that should technically be salva...
@Cerberus looooooow spelled backwards is woooooool.
@Cerberus Do you put salva on your aching joints?
No no.
I might!
He is just avoiding the v-word.
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiæ,
vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevæ,
ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
in hac lacrimarum valle.
1:20 AM
@Cerberus *whiny
Church Latin is getting all medieval on @Cerb's ass.
Yeah, I can't even look at that.
spits on his own foot
Oh wait.
Tu imperative doesn’t switch, does it?
1:23 AM
You would think that it would be subjunctive, 3rd person.
But it has all those te thingies.
For some reason, the tu-imperative is just salva, not I dunno, non salves or something.
The Romance tongues kept that odd model.
I was thinking it was like "May the Queen salve".
But it is probably vocative, so well, no.
Salvus is an adjective.
It is not a verb there?
Although it might be a verb...
It's complicated.
Then it should be salve in the vocative.
There is salvus, salvare, and salvēre.
1:27 AM
If it is salvus.
I don't recall letters addressed to women, so I don't know what one would use with them.
Surely Regina is vocative, so if salvus is applying to her, oh drat. She's feminine.
Which is back to salva.
Even if it is vocative.
Yes, but who knows what Church Latin does...
What is it supposed to mean then?
And there is the possibility that it became a fixed expression, even.
1:30 AM
You put the i in salva, turning it into saliva. Dumb doggy.
Sage advice, that.
Just a bit dyslexic.
Okay, it appears both occur.
Even if one of his heads is dumb, he still has one left over to bark.
And one to bite.
Both occur?
The standard expression salve is from salvere.
So it is a verb.
1:32 AM
Salvus sis, satin' salve, and others are from salvus. But that is the adverb, not the vocative.
So that is the tu-imperative of salvere.
@Rob See salvia. You aren’t a gardener, eh?
Q: Is this sentence "She rushed out, her hair awry" literal?

user36663I am questioning this, because I think that I would say it like this "She rushed out with her hair awry". I would say "with", but I'm not sure about it.

Gen ref.
Look up awry.
It's also NARQ. What is (or isn't) "literal" about it?
@simchona Pardon?
Let's just close it as WTF?
1:37 AM
Nebber mind.
@Cerb Hm, they say “presumably”.
Do you mean "literary"? This construction is indeed a bit literary, and it is called an absolute construction. — Cerberus 10 secs ago
@tchrist Yeah, well, I trust Witionary this much, and Lewis & Short that much.
I consulted the latter.
Yeah yeah. It’s downstairs. . . somewhere.
How come nobody else can ever arrange my books the way I want them arranged?
How come nobody ever arranges my books, including myself?
One of my favorite songs.
1:43 AM
M,I can recognize what a personal attack is and what not and surely reason is not important for me unless geeks and non geeks try offensive language suitable for high school ages. I agree with you about my problems in grammar as a non native English speaker but surely I can recognize which time problematic reactions by some famous Ids here is because of my grammar or because of taking it personal or anything else. I do not want to be judgmental as I wrote my ideas about it in two topics in meta site. In this case I think my grammar is enough clear to understand the meaning of the context. — SnowFlake 1 hour ago
@Sim I think that that person is, um, unbalanced. Shoulder chip. Kinda wacko.
Just listen.
I am tempted to vote to delete that question.
@Cerberus Which?
1:46 AM
I never saw the “racist and sexist language” that that user claims to have been attacked with. Did that actually happen, or is it just a delusion?
The one you linked to.
Delusion based on not being able to understand English fully.
> Having once again reviewed the content of the comments, I see absolutely no grounds for your claim that you were discriminated against due to your gender (which is not stated anywhere, and therefore difficult to establish) or your race (which is also not stated anywhere, and therefore difficult to establish).
From Kit's answer to the meta question.
> As for the offensive language, I believe you misunderstood the commenter and were confused by the use-mention distinction. This set off a wicked spiral as everyone jumped on the bandwagon to attempt to clarify what was being said.
Thank you.
1:48 AM
@sim It is hard to wade through that. I feel like it wears me down.
Okay, can anyone convince me not to vote to delete that question?
So I may have averted my eyes before reading Kit’s answer, wanting just to run away.
@Cerberus Easy: You never delete questions.
@tchrist This could be a monumental moment of monumentalness.
1:50 AM
You’re the Good Cop of Hippocrates who first does no harm.
You're not exactly convincing me.
@Cerberus has a cock for Aesculapius.
Keep your cocks to yourself, thank you.
I'm not a morning person.
1:51 AM
I voted too.
@Cerberus I only have the one. It's all I need.
Tchrist, you know your duty.
I have an alarm clock.
Surely the morning would raise your interests.
The only thing the morning raises is my ire.
1:53 AM
You don't wake up with wood?
No. I don't wake up in the morning.
But you do wake up, yes?
Good, that’s the 2nd time you picked up on the proffered line today.
I leave for five minutes, and it becomes a sausage fest?
@tchrist I was ignoring your innuendo.
No need for Rob to explicate.
1:54 AM
Our sausages could use a buttered bun.
@Cerberus What, an Italian enema?
@Robusto ! That is no way to talk to people.
And now we have shitty coffee.
closes tab
@Cerberus What? I'm talking about food. You telling me you don't eat?
1:55 AM
Not in the morning! How hard can it be?
Never mind.
Stop that.
Yay, it is gone.
@Cerberus I don't know! How hard does it get?
Ave rooster of the hood.
1:56 AM
Dot's right.
Are not roosters aves?
Or maybe that is a grandpa rooster I’m greeting.
Phew, that deletion gave her a rep boost.
@tchrist But the vocative is not ave...
@Cerberus It is if it is a grandpa rooster. :)
Then, yes.
With all those chicks he keeps, you figure some are his grandchickies.
1:59 AM
Wow, the Obama emails are getting downright creepy. Just got one titled "Where's your family from?"
None of your effin' business.
Why did you tell them your address?
Robert --

I was brought to this country from Mexico when I was 2 years old.

I am an undocumented immigrant -- and I am living proof that our immigration system is broken.

For the first 17 years of my life, I slept on a couch. My mom worked three jobs to support our family.

I worked hard, too. I did my homework, participated in class, and earned the opportunity go to college. But after I enrolled, state law changed and many undocumented immigrants were forced to drop out. Suddenly they could no longer afford the education they were eager to work for.
I was brought to this country by my mother, who already lived in it.
Just thought you might want to know.
And did you know Newark => Wanker? True.
Annoying. Does everybody get weird e-mails like that from their president?
If they ever contributed, yes.
It sounds more like regular fraudulent spam.
But it's bed time.
2:04 AM
I know, right?
I must say goodbye.
Au revoir.
Sneak wolf.
Lakes flown.
By the way, Indians came from Asia too, so the letter should just shut up.
2:05 AM
Ask elf now.
The dog poofed but nothing happened.
He does that.
It’s like the opposite of Kit, sitting down at the bottom of the zombie stack with her invisible icon.
He stays on top but isn’t here.
A: What does "up she rises" mean in the sea shanty "Drunken Sailor"?

triggI'm amazed that nobody has noted the transparent crudity of this shanty. The "drunken sailor" refers to a member of the crew suffereing erectile disfunction as a result of over indulgence and shanty suggests methods of solving it - hence "Hooray and up she rises"

? Really? I think not.
A: What does "up she rises" mean in the sea shanty "Drunken Sailor"?

ghoppeAccording to dauntlessprivateers.org, there are five types of shanties: Capstan shanties: Sung while raising anchor. Also known as "stamp and go chanties" because sailors would stomp the deck while turning the capstan. Halyard shanties (Long Drag Shanty): Sung to the raising and lowering of sai...

In spite of the research and the image, this doesn't really answer the question.
Right, what is rising?
Hellion’s is better, but is short and has no pictures.
2:39 AM
Pruning the bad coffee, I see.
It always draws flies.
2:53 AM
Best pour 'em out before the coffee graveyard accumulates and gets moldy. Not that that's ever happened to me.
I must to sleep, perchance to readjust my schedule.
3:08 AM
6 hours later…
9:16 AM
gooooooooooooooooood morning Viet U
2 hours later…
10:59 AM
@Kit The fox vanished?

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