English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

18:02

They don't make monsters like they used to

aedia λ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Awwh!

Matt Эллен

I noticed something similar with an oven ready meal at Tesco: they had poshed up the packaging, but removed the bacon.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

what?!

Matt Эллен

I know!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

what kind of monster removes bacon!!?!?!?!?!?!

Matt Эллен

18:04

they're capitalist pigs

torturing the poor and unable to cook

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hm, I suppose a pig might be opposed to food containing bacon

Matt Эллен

maybe

RegDwigнt

Mmmmmhhhh, pigs.

I actually saw a disgusting movie yesterday, well the first scene anyway, in which a pig gets brutally killed on camera.

I am told the rest is even harder to sit through.

Matt Эллен

what is the film?

RegDwigнt

imdb.com/title/tt0103793

It's Haneke. Who recently won an Oscar, I believe?

Matt Эллен

18:12

sounds gruesome

RegDwigнt

Quite celebrated and all.

This is his early work, though not the earliest it would appear.

> From the director of The Piano Teacher and Caché

Actually hold on, WTF is that, Caché is from 2005 and this one's from 1992.

IMDb is a conspiracy!

Matt Эллен

:O

RegDwigнt

So anyway, I actually recorded Caché once, and it sat on the hard disk for like a year, but I never watched it, and then I needed space and wiped it out. I have now recorded this Benny's thing, too, and it just might face the same fate.

Matt Эллен

like a child's artwork

thrown to the wolves

RegDwigнt

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Matt Эллен

18:19

exactly

KitFox

@RegDwigнt What a jerk.

RegDwigнt

Teehee.

That's the whole point, honey.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Jeez. Who needs Google when you've got Reg here to provide any appropriate clip or link or whatever at a moment's notice.

RegDwigнt

I think he has a, like, ten-minute bit where he just talks about hitting 2-year-olds. And it's hilarious.

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KitFox

A 3-year-old girl was accidentally shot on Wednesday.

In my hometown.

RegDwigнt

18:27

That's not it, BTW. He has so many bits about children.

@KitFox guns don't kill people!

KitFox

Yeah. I don't think that stuff is very funny.

Particularly when it's someone talking about their own children.

RegDwigнt

To each his own.

There are many ladies in the audience who laugh their asses off, but his wife filed for divorce.

KitFox

@RegDwigнt Guns discharging when they are dropped on the floor accidentally kill people.

Or put them in critical condition anyway.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox guns don't drop themselves on floors!

KitFox

What kind of idiot has a loaded gun anywhere near a toddler?

Or in a house with a teenager, for that matter.

RegDwigнt

18:31

I actually like the "guns don't kill people" argument. A lot. Because even its fiercest opponents, like caricature hippies all frothing at the mouth, even those don't get how ridiculous it really is. They try to fight it on all kinds of levels except on the most obvious one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt it's bullets that kill people. duh.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 haha, yeah that too.

But no, what I mean is, when you say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" -- you are really making the completely wrong comparison. A false dichotomy. But everyone happily accepts it, like an axiom or something, even the opponents, so everyone then has their own made-up statistics and it never leads anywhere. Ever.

And that's why the argument is so compelling. It works. Everyone accepts it even when they pretend not to.

KitFox

Huh. I hadn't thought of that.

Matt Эллен

!!define abberant

KitSox

@MattЭллен My pocket dictionary just isn't good enough for you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:36

@RegDwigнt I wouldn't say that everyone accepts it.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox Yeah. So now think of this: "guns don't kill people, people kill people" -- you could say that about anything. That's why it rings so true in the first place. Anything works there. "Bare hands don't kill people, people kill people". See?

KitFox

There are a lot of accidental shootings here, way more than homicides. I don't care who or what is doing the killing. No guns means no accidents.

@RegDwigнt Oh, I don't think it rings true. I think it is a stupid thing to say.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What I am saying is when you make a comparison between people with guns and people without, to whichever end, you've already accepted the wrong premise.

You should be comparing people with guns to people with bare hands instead.

Or people with knives.

Or people with bats.

KitFox

And my point is that there are plenty of gun fatalities that are accidents.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt I think most people opposed to guns don't think it rings true. It's a statement that might have some truth to it, but its truth is irrelevant. It's a red herring followed by a tautology.

KitFox

18:38

Accidents that would never happen if a person didn't have a gun.

Matt Эллен

I don't know of a bat that ever killed another bat by swinging a person.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 well go to reddit or youtube and try and find that kind of argument there. Hint: you won't.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt Yes. People with knives|bats|bare hands|swords are all "people without guns"

KitFox

People who want to kill someone will kill someone even without a gun.

RegDwigнt

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah I know I'm explaining it a bit contradictorily (is that a word?), I'm in improv mode here. I hope the gist is still clear.

KitFox

18:40

I think we are all enthusiastically agreeing with each other.

Matt Эллен

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Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I think even that is a stretch. I think people who want to kill someone may kill someone without a gun. But they may decide that the alternatives are not practical and give up on it.

KitFox

In that kind of British "no, you go first" through a doorway sort of way.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox no no no. I agree with you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt I think you're over-simplifying the gun-control debate. And the arguments involved.

KitFox

18:41

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, that is the argument about automatic weapons. You can kill first graders with a gun, but you can kill many more of them with an automatic rifle.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox except there I agree with Mr Shiny.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 and I think it oversimplifies itself. Quickly and invariably, every single time.

I've witnessed it a thousand times too many.

Matt Эллен

I don't have a gun therefore you don't need one

KitFox

I'm probably the only one here who owns a gun.

And the only American.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Not just that. Let's say I was really mad and wanted to kill my neighbour. I might just shoot him. But if I don't have any gun at all, I might decide that attacking him with some other weapon is prone to failure.

KitFox

Coincidence? I think not.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And you probably wouldn't kill your neighbor even if you got into fisticuffs with him.

Most people will stop before using their bare hands to murder a person.

RegDwigнt

18:43

Number of guns per capita by country

Another misleading metric.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Let's assume that I wanted him dead. I could try to beat him to death. Or stab him. or poison him. Only I don't know how to poison people. And he might be much stronger than me or a better fighter. etc.

KitFox

Guns are more likely to be fatal, they act faster, and they keep distance between you and the other person.

Guns are less personal.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Yeah, exactly. It's way easier to actually achieve the kill if you have a machine designed for that purpose.

KitFox

And therefore, less satisfying.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox that is a good observation.

Not often heard.

The one before that, yes, but not this conclusion.

In other news, Australian police may now actually ask you to show them your face if they want to identify you. Crazy!

KitFox

18:49

Well, I didn't mean to murder the conversation.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox Sorry but we all already agreed to agree.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Here is an article that claims that the guns do, in fact, kill people (because had the guns not been there, the resulting actions by the people would not have been death, but rather no death, or merely injury)

tchrist

@AndrewLeach We need it for the dumb typo-questions, too.

There is no lasting value to be had there.

@RegDwigнt That’s because somebody forgot to convert from Imperial again.

RegDwigнt

Yeah, too few people convert from Imperial to Islam.

KitFox

I have now been asked for references. I suppose that means an offer is forthcoming?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:57

@KitFox assuming your references don't shaft you ;p

RegDwigнt

And assuming it's not reverences.

tchrist

@KitFox They just want to know whether you can be trusted to work with pointers.

KitFox

Oh crap.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That reminds me that a 3-year-old shot and killed his mother last year in my home state.

> These deaths, quite obviously, could have been avoided had any adult, at any point in time, exercised even a modicum of discretion concerning the availability of their firearm.

Here here

This is the crux of my objection to current firearm legislation.

Guns should at a minimum require a license.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Of course it’s reverences: the priesthood is always involved whenever there’s an objective crux to be had.

Or even a symbolic one.

Or a metaphoric one.

Or a mythologic one.

In short, they’re into cruxicities.

KitFox

wonders if her lawn darts are illegal

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:02

@KitFox probably

KitFox

Damn it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, it's weird, isn't it, that in the US Kinder Surprise Eggs are banned, but they make guns for children.

RegDwigнt

KitFox

Actual guns for children. Not even pretend ones.

RegDwigнt

Apparently moms demand action. And I think I have that on tape!

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Jez

19:50

dunno what to eat tonight

want fatty, should eat healthy

Matt Эллен

@Jez deep fried vegetables. you're welcome

Johan Larsson

@RegDwigнt yep AK-47 accept no substitute.

Robusto

20:42

@BraddSzonye Looks like a boring set of problems to solve. All you have when done is a bunch of numbers.

Matt Эллен

bunches of flowers are much more likely to help

Robusto

@JohanLarsson If you can hit anything with it.

Strictly a spray & pray weapon.

Johan Larsson

not sure I agree but I'm no expert

I have tried one once but I tested spray mode

Robusto

Oct 30 '12 at 12:47, by Robusto

Feb 11 at 2:32, by Robusto

AK on the left, ACR (based on AR-15) on the right, standing, no support, 60 yards.

Johan Larsson

ok, we had AK5 in the military, same ammo, excellent precision ime

Robusto

20:52

I just didn't like the feel of it. Cheek weld felt off, like I had to make myself into a hunchback to line up the sights.

KitFox

It's because you're so tall.

hustles off to write NaNo

tchrist

I’ve just lost a 2nd cousin at age 47. Mom’s already lost plenty, including a couple of her first cousins who were each other’s ¾-brothers.

Robusto

21:17

That sucks. Sorry to hear it.

tchrist

It keeps happening.

And my job to see it through.

But I don’t have to like it.

Robusto

Lately, I really like create new HTML elements… and since I’m not really fantasious, I simply called the directive to upload file: uploader. It’s possible to use it almost everywhere, but in a form.. Now why would I listen to anything this non-"fantasious" person had to say?

tchrist

lasciate ogne speranza

I’m not going back for the funeral, as I didn’t know her well, and GOD DAMN IT I just got back from a funeral. But her mom is mine’s best friend, so it’s tough. She still runs a big farm in SW Wisconsin, with two sons doing most of the hard work. Maybe some sons-in-law, too.

Johan Larsson

A friend offered after-work today

Three hours of lifting rocks, sledge hammering etc.

Robusto

21:34

Par-tay!

Johan Larsson

It was actually better than most couples dinners I have attended

Robusto

I despise having company forced on me. I think I'm old enough that I've earned the right not to let other people bore me in public gatherings.

That said, I did attend a wedding recently. The horror.

Johan Larsson

Are the last words of Apocalypse now the horror or a horror?

Robusto

The wedding itself was mildly entertaining, it being a Jewish wedding and all, but the reception put my wife and me at a table with a bunch of people we didn't know who didn't have much of anything interesting to talk about.

@JohanLarsson I believe they are as I stated it: The horror.

Johan Larsson

great movie, feels like three movies, guess it took a while to make.

Robusto

21:48

@JohanLarsson Actually, we're both wrong. It's actually "horror"—but that's not the last word of the film.

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Johan Larsson

Studio Canal blocked it in my country, I blocked Studio Canal right back.

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