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15:00
You Spaniard! You traitor!
Cymreig is Welsh, I think
Jez
Jez
@MattЭллен not an appropriate answer to the question :-)
Hehe.
@MattЭллен raig.
All colonies are belong to the Spanish Main!
15:00
Actually, raeg.
@Jez grio
Or the Spanish Reich.
> After being informed about the matter by the Director of the GCSB on September 17, the Prime Minister referred the Bureau’s actions to the Inspector-General, Hon Paul Neazor.
@DavidWallace Is using "Hon" without the dot normal in Kiwiland?
It's probably just a typo?
I thought that was standard in UK and related?
I'm hungry. What's for lunch?
Jez
Jez
@KitFox mon cerveau éclate quand je dois parler une autre langue! :-)
@KitFox Piñatas.
Jez
Jez
15:04
mal pour mon cerveau
What kind of veau?
Hey, growing is painful.
You think that creating new neural connections is going to be pain free?
Learning hurts. That's what makes it hot.
Jez
Jez
yes, unless there's something seriously wrong with your brain
Well, there's your problem right there.
A complete misunderstanding about what neural plasticity feels like.
Jez
Jez
you haven't heard of poetic language usage then
Anyway, I think it would be interesting to put KitFox's proposition that Spanish takeover would be fine to a national poll.
i think you are in a very small minority
15:07
> I will miss the fact that Russians are not afraid of what we in America nervously call “the L-word,” or the messes it can get you into.
@KitFox Only for suspensions, i.e. abbreviations ending in the final letter of the word, like Mr and such.
Jez
Jez
and not just amongst americans; amongst humans
what is the L word?
Jez
Jez
whether you like it or not, people feel an attachment to their mother tongue
So it's vs but v., see?
@Jez Yes, I can feel it.
It's probably the swelling from this cold I have.
Jez
Jez
15:09
so funny i forgot to laugh
@MattЭллен Huh? Context?
@Cerberus it's from Reg's article about Leaving Moscow
@Jez Must be your tongue is attached to something too.
@MattЭллен He wrote an article?? Where?
And could it be "Leaving"?
@Cerberus no no :D sorry, I mean the one he showed us, not the one he wrote
@MattЭллен love. Duh.
Jez
Jez
15:10
i thought it was "lewd"
@RegDwighт oh! well I didn't know Americans had a problem with it
@MattЭллен it's not much of a problem compared to Spanish, say.
It's a nice article though.
I could relate to probably nine things out of ten.
15:12
I'm around half way through...
@Jez I think you are right. But I also think most Americans wouldn't take the idea of a Spanish takeover seriously.
@RegDwighт It's interesting so far
@Jez I have no feeling of like or dislike about people's attachment to their native tongue.
@Cerberus why people add yellow thing with explanation? Joke no funny anymore.
15:15
@RegDwighт Yeah I didn't get that either.
You may disregard the yellow thing.
Fun fact: anything prefixed with "fun fact" is neither fun nor a fact.
And I still need to figure out what I want for lunch.
@KitFox Piñatas.
@RegDwighт Agreed.
@RegDwighт Does that same logic apply to interesting factoids?
Jez
Jez
15:15
@Cerberus lol, love it
@RegDwighт Where am I going to get a pinyata?
@KitFox yes, it applies directly to said factoids' foreheads.
Hahaha.
@KitFox And FAQs!
> The page cannot be displayed because an internal server error has occurred.
Uh oh.
15:18
> The page can be displayed because an internal server error has occurred.
Gotta run.
Lators.
I think I need some lunch before I tackle this. BBL.
CU!
the server has been doing a lot of introspection recently and has come to the conclusion that you're not treating it with respect and has decided to leave.
Is this really new?
I thought scientists had been using similar statistical analysis for ages??
If not, why on earth not??
Secondly, this isn't the Holy Grail, far from it: you still need to lay out the correct causal dependencies and independencies, or you won't filter out the right things.
Jez
Jez
gawd, reading through this staff handbook is tedious.
im struggling not to fall asleep
And you can never be sure to have all the relevant factors anyway.
> Called the high-dimensional propensity score algorithm (hd-PS), it is a tool for improving not randomized clinical trials but broader observational studies, in which researchers watch a large pool of participants and look for correlations—like the fact that wine drinkers live longer than other drinkers.
Observational studies are cheaper and easier than clinical trials. Unfortunately, the data they yield are rife with confounder problems, but researchers can improve the data by adjusting for suspected confounders and removing the bias they introduce.
15:48
You should talk to Vit about it.
@KitFox That's what the Aztecs said.
@MattЭллен Damn, server, don't be like that. I can change. Just give me a chance.
@tchrist laughs
@Cerberus "The distinction between the two terms 'participle' and 'gerund'
isn't really applicable to Modern English. It's a traditional one
based on Latin morphology and syntax." [John Lawler](http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/gerund.html)
@tchrist I reject Lawler's limited dogmatic approach.
You can use a different terminology and system. That's fine.
Lawler doesn't seem to get the bigger picture.
@tchrist In any case, if you didn't feel like applying this distinction, then why did you use the word "gerund"?
@Cerberus So for you it is a gerund when used as a noun or adverb, and a participle when used as an adjective or verb? Or something like that?
@Cerberus I removed it because I didn't want to confuse matters.
15:56
@tchrist No, it is noun v. adjective.
What about an adverb?
It can't be an adverb.
It can be a predicative adjective.
Like any other adjective.
Well, not any.
But many.
@Cerberus Looking into this more closely, you will see a syntactic surprise.
By the way, I am not saying that the conventional distinction works in 100 % of cases. But it works in the large majority of cases. I don't think any linguistic instrument works in 100 % of cases anyway. It's not a problem.
@tchrist I doubt it.
I might not object to calling a predicative adjective "adverbial".
But I would not call it an adverb.
@Cerberus Isn't it the same as saying "by looking in this more closely, you will see a syntactic surprise"?
16:02
@tchrist In a way, yes.
Are you attaching looking to you or to see?
But what does that prove?
@MattЭллен Turns out, he was missing an assembly.
@tchrist I feel that the boundary between syntax and semantics is a bit more rigid than allowing such "proof".
You didn't answer my question.
16:03
@KitFox aye, they get quite attached to those. like comforters
@tchrist According to traditional grammar, it modifies you in the participial use.
@MattЭллен Apparently something else is broken now too...oh ffs. I forgot to update the database sprocs.
With by, it's different.
I don't see why by moves the attachment.
And yet it does.
I presume that by "attachment" you mean which word modifies which.
16:06
I do.
> Red with shame, she lowered her gaze.
This is a standard example of a predicative adjective.
Would you want to call "red" an adverb here?
> She came in late.
Etc. etc.
Red attaches to she.
Yes, there is something adverbial about these adjectives; but this is an issue with adjectives in general, not with participles in particular, although they are admittedly often used predicatively.
@tchrist Yes or no?
Yes or no, what?
Is it an adverb?
16:09
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
I can not do something red, where the manner of doing is red.
I am just explaining the how and why of traditional grammar.
@tchrist So yes or no?
The man downstairs is still waiting.
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
So you refuse to answer?
I am intrigued by the notion that you have made downstairs an adjective there. It's a where question.
I have done nothing but answer you for an hour.
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
Where did you type yes or no?
16:12
Yes or no, what?
I don't know what you are talking about.
Be clear.
5 mins ago, by Cerberus
Would you want to call "red" an adverb here?
I typed "yes or no" because you typed "yes or no".
Notice "you".
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
What would you call it there?
16:13
Looks like a color to me.
Part of speech?
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
Well, if you're too scared to even take up a proper position, then we're not getting anywhere.
I keep giving you my answer.
Quote it.
16:15
You refuse to process it.
Your problem.
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
"I call it an x there" or "yes" or "no" would do.
Strange.
I am perfectly clear about what I am saying.
If you prefer to call anything that attaches to a noun an adjective, so be it.
Can you rephrase it to fit one of the three answers I so kindly pre-typed for you?
I am not interesting in what "I" prefer to call it.
Why don't you just type the answer you want me to give, and be done with it?
I want to know what you would call it.
I don't care which answer you give; I just need a position to work with.
I was trying to show you how problematic and complex this issue is by giving you a difficult (presumably) example.
16:17
I am content to do whatever you tell me to do.
Fine.
Then accept that traditional grammar has a fairly useful model here.
Is that OK?
I'm not saying that novel Anglo-Saxon linguistics doesn't have models that are consistent and workable enough as well.
I have never before entertained the notion that red might be an adverb.
So your answer is no?
Surely you don't want me to ascribe your refusal to give me a clear answer to cowardice...
Once was enough.
I will assume "no", then.
16:21
That will please you.
In that case, don't you feel that my "red" sentence uses the same construction as your "looking" (without "by") sentence?
I can't put "by" in front of "red".
By the way, if you would be more coöperative, we could solve this in a much quicker fashion.
@tchrist So you feel the construction is different?
> Looking red with shame, she lowered her gaze.
> Red with shame, she lowered her gaze.
"Looking" is not exactly the right register there, but it will do.
And it is redundant and therefore a bit ugly.
But it is still possible.
Mike carefully cleaned the catfish he'd caught, removing its deadly spines before skinning it.
Please attach "removing".
Attach?
16:25
Attach.
I don't know what you mean by that.
At first I thought you meant "modified".
That will do.
Now I have no idea any more.
I cannot modify a word.
@Cerberus He's making a play on words.
One word modifies another word.
@Robusto You think so? He has been using this word in various contexts.
16:27
Does "removing" modify "caught"?
Yes or no.
According to traditional grammar, it modifies both Mike and cleaned, because a predicative adjective or participle does just that, by definition.
@Cerberus "Attach" is an antonym of "remove" — I haven't been following your whole argument, but within the confines of that sentence, I took it to be an attempt to humorously express a point, yes.
It modifies "cleaned", you say?
What is "cleaned" if not a verb?
And thus "removing" needs must be a verb modifier, for it modifies a verb.
@Robusto Yes, I thought that was what you meant, but that pun was probably unintentional. Still funny.
We do not call verb modifiers "adjectives" where I come from.
16:29
@tchrist Have you heard of predicative adjectives?
And have you looked at the examples I posted?
She came in late.
Etc.
We arrived first.
If you think that "removing" modifies "Mike", then you have a very strange idea of grammar.
It is another VP acting as an adverb, trivially proven by inserting the implicit "by".
Or perhaps you just shouldn't judge what you don't understand, such as conventional grammar.
And "by" proves nothing.
Can you be any more of an ass? Try.
And you are ignoring my laboriously illustrated explanation of how conventional grammar treats predicative adjectives.
So I think this topic is closed.
/ignore @Cerberus
16:32
And "you have a very strange idea of grammar" is not a very nice thing to say in a discussion of grammar.
closes topic
topic tries to burst open
flattens bulge
stamps on it
topic's bulge is suppressed
Whew.
That was easier than I expected.
Boys, boys, boys. Let's just try to be nice, huh?
16:35
Will try.
Things have reached a pretty pass when I'm the one telling people to try to be nice.
2
Aren't you proud of me for not referring to that?
It involved biting off my little finger.
But it was worth it I guess.
I would be proud of you for slaying the Jabberwock, but not for that.
Also, I thought dogs had claws, not fingers. Just saying.
Hmm can a Jabberwock be slain?
Should it not be scrain or something?
16:37
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
  Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
  He chortled in his joy.
Hmm.
That poem is actually a bit softcore.
It can be improved by replacing every real word.
You are too mimsy to appreciate it.
pouts
Yeah, that's going to work.
The kid can barely lift his sword.
16:39
maybe he's hoping the beast's eye will land on the hilt
I'm not that mimsy.
Jabberwock arrives at hospital "Yeah, so I uhh fell into this sword. I wasn't doing anything weird, you know."
"we've heard it all before. Get behind the guy with his hand glued to a mousetrap"
@Cerberus Oops, I did it again. I slayed your Jabberwock, got lost in the borogroves. ...I'm not that mimsy.
16:41
@MattЭллен Haha. Yes, same category.
What the heck?! I just upvoted @Rob twice, because the first one disappeared upon refresh.
-1
Q: Word to describe highly ambitious female

dasickisThe only word that comes close is 'bitch' and it's exceptionally derogatory. I've tried to look and ask people but nothing but 'bitch' comes up.

I am wondering whether that one is Not Constructive.
@KitFox Haha, yes!! I felt like Britnarroll.
Why are there so many more questions today on Tuesday than yesterday on Monday?
It would be great if pop music used more literary themes and references.
16:44
@tchrist Well, it's almost certain to hit the multicollider. If I had seen that one first I wouldn't have answered his other question.
How are you feeling @Matt?
Hmm, I am wondering why sometimes I am pung and sometimes I am not. Can someone try writing @Rob and then my complete name, @Robusto on different lines?
@Rob No.
@Robusto I'm not your servant.
Hmm, I didn't get pung either time.
HI
16:47
Huh! That's odd.
Hi!
@Robusto Maybe the pinging is not working right for you in the old tab?
Wait. Let me go to a different tab and try again.
@Cerberus somewhat tired, a little achy, and I have a little chesty cough. You know that feeling where your mind feels like it a few hours behind. like that too.
@Rob No.
@Robusto You mean Alice Pung?
16:48
@Robusto I'm still not your servant.
Still nothing.
@MattЭллен Yeah that sucks.
Have you taken your meds?
@Cerberus Still not? Planning to?
@Noah I mean Alice's Adventures in Pungerland.
@Noah I would require ample remuneration.
16:49
@Cerberus I've no meds. I think it'll be gone by next week.
Why no aspirin?
No meds? Well, there's your problem right there. You can point to it.
And is your nose clogged?
@Robusto and carrying unpolished gem in your back pocket
@Cerberus oh, well I'll take some paracetamol before bed, so I can sleep properly.
16:49
I'm on aspirin, that helps.
And now it's time for another nose spray.
@Cerberus no worse than usual :D
@Rob are you pung again?
@MattЭллен Heh OK.
@Cerberus you're under the weather too? Oh no!
You forgot whom you caught it from?
16:50
@Cerberus Try to do some community service
Bleeeh.
@MattЭллен I was...
feeling better now
@Cerberus oh right :D I didn't realise you meant you were ill. you have my empathies then.
@Noah that's good. I like the feeling better part of feeling ill :D
Was coughing turtles
@tchrist No. No pings, no pangs, no pungs.
We should all go listen to some pung rock now.
16:52
@MattЭллен Empathie or Sympathien?
@MattЭллен I'm fine with my meds, so I was trying to encourage you to ingest foreign substances too.
AFK for sustenance.
Poor you.
@Noah I was using empathy as a noun, like people use sympathy. like a pun
5
Q: Word for people who change their opinions easily?

Mohammad SepahvandI'm wondering if there is a specific word describing this trait. For example if I tend to think that 'If I pass this exam I am a genius, if I fail I am an utter imbecile'?

16:54
@Cerberus ingest or digest?
This at the top of the supercollider.
@MattЭллен Yeah I got that. It is perfectly legitimate!
@tchrist Politician
@Noah Ingest. You don't digest decongestant, do you?
Or perhaps you do?
@Cerberus it is tempting. I've shied away from my nasal spray and my inhaler, cos I think they weaken my immune system, but my lemsip (hot drink with paracetamol in it) is looking good.
@Cerberus yay!
16:56
@Cerberus No, I don't
@MattЭллен Why would they weaken your immune system?
@Noah But you do ingest it, right?
Through your nose, into your stomach.
What happens afterwards I care not to know.
@Cerberus No
@Cerberus well, I'm fairly sure that's what my asthma inhaler does (the preventer) because it has to prevent my natural killer T cells from going mental and flooding my lungs with mucus
and the nasal spray is a similar drug
but not the same one, so it could be ok
@MattЭллен Oh I see.
@Cerberus I dont do any of those. But you ingest and then digest, no matter what you do
16:59
@MattЭллен Is it similar? I didn't think so?
@Noah Hmm why not?
Writer's Chat in The Overlook going on now. Come and join! Today we're discussing imagery and world-building.
@Cerberus becuase I am fine and dandy
And, if it weakens your immune system, surely this is only local?
@Noah Lucky.
The only real problem with nasal sprays is addiction.
@Cerberus my inhaler is Beclometasone_dipropionate and my nasal spray is ...
And even that is not very harmful, just a bother.
17:00
oh
it's the same
Really??
Does it have the same addictive effect, where you need more and more of the stuff to get the same effect, and stopping is a pain (although there are no proven long-term health effects)?
Does it also hurt a bit?
it doesn't hurt
I'm not sure if it works
the inhaler works, for certain
Hmm.
17:32
@Cerberus - italicised name in chat means room owner (but not mod)
17:48
@MattЭллен Ahh I see.
@MattЭллен Oh, yes! I am italic in Linguistics.
I'm italic in the EL&U blog room
@MattЭллен Hey, can you delete one of your lines?
Doesn't matter which one.
@MattЭллен I can see the history of deleted lines in "my" room!
But not here.
@Cerberus oh! interesting...
17:51
I didn't know I could.
No doubt moderators can too.
pondering
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Perhaps...
17:57
Hmm who's that?
Ponder Stibbons
stibbons Ponder
from the Unseen University in Ankh Morpork
Ohhh!
I should read Pratchett.
He writes enjoyable books
17:58
Yes.
I have played the first Discworld, and I have read one of his books.
I've not played the games. Which book have you read?

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