English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

14:00

@tchrist But it is not, nor will it ever be: 99 % of our questions are not "highbrow".

@Robusto This.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto yeah. That's not exactly helping.

Cerberus

Look at Linguistics.

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA You can’t tell whether anything is or is not working without a metric of the same. How do you count it?

@Cerberus In what sense? The all-highbrow sense?

Cerberus

That site has far fewer questions, and they are much more academic. But TPTB may kill us sooner or later, because we don't generate enough views.

tchrist

So you think they’re more apt to survive than we are?

Cerberus

14:02

@RegDwightАΑA I see lots of questions being closed, I hear lots of complaining. If anything, it seems to be more than a year ago. From that I conclude that mission to eradicate or greatly decrease the number of non-academic questions is not a great success.

tchrist

See, this roils my reactionality, so I say nothing:

0

Q: One word for "every now and then"

The system shuts down every now and then. He comes late to office every now and then. I go swimming every now and then. For the above statements, how would you replace "every now and then" with one word?

word-choice

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist what I'm saying is, Cerberus says, we got X crap questions a year ago, we still get X crap questions now, so obviously it's not working. But that's not taking into account how many more users and page views we have now. It's kind of the opposite of the Homer Simpson argumentation about stones keeping lions away.

tchrist

To me all these synset questions are GenRef.

Cerberus

The proportion of uninteresting questions has also not increased or decreased a great deal, if at all.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus again, you completely drop out of the equation that if there were no efforts whatsoever to keep the site clean, we'd have even more crap questions.

@Cerberus EXACTLY.

We are keeping it at bay.

Cerberus

14:04

@RegDwightАΑA I actually meant decreased there.

RegDwight АΑA

If we stop, it will be 100% in no time.

tchrist

I wonder whether "good" questions are being foisted off on the highbrow Linguistics.SE . . .

Cerberus

It has not decreased.

Nothing seems to have much impact.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus but it has increased?

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus do you even read what I say?

Cerberus

14:04

@RegDwightАΑA I doubt it.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus that's not an argument.

Cerberus

I appreciate all the work that you do and have done, by the way. That's not the issue.

RegDwight АΑA

Neither is it for me.

Cerberus

@tchrist Sometimes they are, because they are not deemed "on topic" for English.SE.

tchrist

@Cerberus I wish I can some examples of those. Yes, I know how to look.

Cerberus

14:07

Has anyone ever had any proof that deterring a small percentage of non-academic questions works to significantly prevent the proportion of academic to non-academic from slipping off to zero?

@tchrist I don't remember the particulars, but I have seen such questions.

I don't have a real problem with that: at least they weren't closed.

Robusto

@Cerberus ZOMG! Maybe we're in a Twilight Zone show-ending epiphany wherein we suddenly realize that we are the ELU Lite for Linguistics.SE! Mind = assploded!

Cerberus

@Robusto Hehe.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus yes. Clay Shirky did.

Robusto

Those bastards at Linguistics.SE are feasting on our flesh.

RegDwight АΑA

A Group is Its Own Worst Enemy. By Clay Shirky.

Cerberus

14:09

In fact, our interesting questions are often about linguistics, but focused exclusively on English, and our answers there are often on par with the quality of Linguistics.

RegDwight АΑA

That is required reading for every mod on SE.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto Writers must feel gypped - we fed them our poop

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I think I read that around the time when I joined the site.

RegDwight АΑA

Yes I posted it before.

Cerberus

I believe it was linked to from the SE blog about the various phases an on-line community goes through.

RegDwight АΑA

14:11

I'm sure it was.

Clay is on SE's Board of Advisors.

Cerberus

Then I have read it.

Robusto

Maybe we should just have Everything.SE and rely on tagging to sort things out.

tchrist

@Robusto Your "as the dictionary says" comment has GR smackings all over it.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto if I had a dime for every time this gets suggested.

Matt Эллен

Ah, Golden Retrievers! Great dogs

Cerberus

14:12

@Robusto Do think tagging instead of closing would be nice, as discussed a while ago.

Robusto

@tchrist I need more. I don't recall every comment I ever made, even today.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA or just a dime for everytime MRS&N suggests it ;)

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus tagging as what? uninteresting? closed?

Genuine question.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Thank you for giving my joke the serious consideration it deserves.

tchrist

@Robusto Sorry.

As the dictionary shows, sometimes would work as well. — Robusto 9 mins ago

RegDwight АΑA

14:14

@Robusto I will always give you some consideration. It can be negative, but it will be there.

tchrist

People don't use the dictionary. They don't use the thesaurus.

Robusto

@tchrist I was referring to his citation. I originally wrote "your* dictionary, but then felt it would seem to accusatory.

tchrist

Because they find it easier to get custom gimmes here.

And if we close those, we get yelled at for unfriendliness.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist people don't use ELU, either. I.e. the next person, rather than looking at the answer here, will go ask on Reddit. Or Yahoo Answers. It's a perpetuum mobile.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA There is just this problem with the "great questions attract great answers" adage. First of all, we don't know exactly how and to what extent this works. Secondly, there are many other factors. Thirdly, unless we become much, much more restrictive, there is no way we can get a majority of interesting questions. Fourthly, there is nothing that proves that a non-majority of great questions attracts anything.

Matt Эллен

14:15

@tchrist voted to close anyway :D

RegDwight АΑA

So many questions that have been answered here two years ago, with charts and COCA stats from nohat and all, get asked yet again in the Grammar Subreddit. Just go and check for yourself.

Cerberus

In short, there is no proof at all that closing a certain small minority of non-academic questions in a fairly aggressive manner works at all to increase the number of academic questions significantly.

Matt Эллен

right. that's it. language is too subjective for SE, all xL&U sites must be closed forthwith

tchrist

@MattЭллен I see my strong GR encludoing is working then.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus I agree, and that's kind of my point: I will often let questions attract answers first and then use that in judging whether it's any good.

tchrist

14:16

0

A: One word for "every now and then"

General Reference: alternately, at intervals, at random, at times, ever and again, ever and anon, every now and then, every once in a while, every so often, fluctuating, from time to time, here and there, infrequently, intermittently, irregularly, now and again, now and then, occasiona...

Cerberus

Still, the broken-windows theory is, well, broken at best.

Stapel was a fraud.

Nothing is ever that simple.

RegDwight АΑA

It did work for NYC.

Cerberus

1 min ago, by Cerberus

In short, there is no proof at all that closing a certain small minority of non-academic questions in a fairly aggressive manner works at all to increase the number of academic questions significantly.

So what's with this extreme rain? Is it some sort of divine punishment?

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus getting trash out does help in getting trash out, by definition. Whether or not it helps in not getting trash in the first place, is a different question entirely, but if anything that's an added benefit.

tchrist

@simchona How’s your nose doing today?

0

Q: makes or make for this sentence

Which sentence is grammatically correct? What are the elements in the poem that make it joyful. or What are the elements in the poem that makes it joyful.

grammaticality

Matt Эллен

14:21

@Cerberus The thing is, people who are already here know not to break windows. it's the people who have just shown up and rillyrillyrillyrilly want their question answered that throw most of the stones

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I don't think of ESL and GR and such as trash.

tchrist

@MattЭллен You mean the ones that ask plaintively to please please please help me right now come on guys?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Eh I can't follow the metaphor.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus don't get hung up on semantics. You know what my point is.

Cerberus

Or not completely.

Matt Эллен

14:23

@Cerberus broken windows - they mostly come from people who don't know how not to break windows.

RegDwight АΑA

Also, @Cerberus, do make your mind up on whether we close a small minority of questions, or whether everyone's running amok 24/7.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I think having a few GR and SWR and ESL questions less is not really a benefit, since we have so many others. And I doubt closing a few of the non-academic questions will increase the number of academic questions.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus the poor question itself is a broken window - the [close] is the board covering the window so that vagrants don't get in.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus funny you'd mention SWR. You wanted to get rid of them wholesale, since day one.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto no animus. i just votes on what the deletion machine gives me

Cerberus

14:25

@RegDwightАΑA A minority is still a large number in absolute terms here.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus I'm afraid I'm not following.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I didn't say that: I just said I didn't find them interesting at all.

Doesn't mean I don't want to let others ask them.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus yes, but we have some context here.

This discussion.

We are talking about whether broken windows attract more broken windows.

I thought you'd want to check out the SWR tag.

Cerberus

I think we should just make up our minds: either we close 90+ % of all questions and only keep the academic ones, or we just let all the non-spammy and non-incomprehensible ones be.

The other criteria seem arbitrary to me.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus yes, but you have to define "incomprehensible".

-1

Q: Is these sentences gramatically correct?

He is standing at the gate. He is standing among the crowded place. If both are wrong what is the right usage?

sentence-structure

Is this question comprehensible?

Cerberus

14:28

Yes, certainly.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so you want it to get an answer, but you won't answer it?

RegDwight АΑA

So you want to spend every day on a site that deals with such questions?

2

Cerberus

I also think moving less interesting questions to a different sub-list would be much better than our current closing system. But we can't change that.

@RegDwightАΑA As I said, 90 % is uninteresting anyway. I don't see that as a problem per se.

@MattЭллен I may very well answer it. When I used to answer a lot of questions, I answered those kinds of questions too.

Now I am afraid to answer it, because you will not like it if I do.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Is there a reason you have become less active? Was it the Jeff/Kosmo debarcal?

sorry, I can't spell debarcal

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus That is the problem. The thing is — and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, quite the opposite in fact: that's the only way how you can stay sane —, the thing is, you don't come here for the main site. You come here to chat with ten-odd people. You openly state that you couldn't care less about the main site. For all you care it might not exist. Again, I don't mean that as an accusation; I'm just saying that it's hypocritical.

Cerberus

14:32

@MattЭллен Yes, and other stuff, like boredom.

débâcle

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so what would stop you being bored with the site?

@Cerberus thanks :D

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA I do care about the main site. I like to answer a few interesting questions now and then. I just don't care about whether there are uninteresting questions, just as I don't care about the uninteresting people on the street. I just leave them be, and they don't bother me.

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ I don't see a deletion machine. Also, if you voted on deletion, why is there only one delete vote? Had there been another in the "deletion machine" then there ought to be two by now. I'm still puzzling over how this whole review system is supposed to work now. I see no delete votes anywhere.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus but what if other interesting people can't stand it and they all go away? Would you stay? Or would you move on, too?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Nothing: I don't think many people continue to maintain the same level of activity on a site for an indefinite period. Moods and interests change. I chose to remain active on a lower level, answering questions regularly but not nearly so often as before, when Rob and I would hurry to answer any new question as soon as it appeared.

@RegDwightАΑA I don't know. But of course that would be bad. However, I am not convinced closing a minority of uninteresting questions as we do now has much effect either way. At least I haven't seen any strong evidence.

Robusto

14:37

@Cerberus And I only had to outrun the doggy before my interest waned.

tchrist

@Robusto Which deletion machine is that?

Cerberus

@Robusto It was mutual.

Robusto

@tchrist Ah, frick. Them's keeps changin' things around! It ain't fair.

tchrist

@Robusto A dog is the best bear protection out there. He as a functional snickersnack will distract the bear long enough for you to run away.

Matt Эллен

unless your dog outruns you

Robusto

14:40

@Cerberus It's a curious dynamic. I often have to fight someone before I can be friends with them. Just like an old John Wayne movie or something: you learn mutual respect by knocking each other's blocks off.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Dogs never run away from bears. You do.

Rather pathetically. A bear can easily outrun a man.

Matt Эллен

I've yet to run away from a bear.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus see, that's the thing. We constantly need fresh people. Because people constantly burn out. How do you attract fresh high-quality contributors if your front page looks exactly like that of any other grammer-related forum ever?

tchrist

Me too. The bears always run from me, the poor things.

Matt Эллен

for obvious reasons

tchrist

14:41

Oh. Right.

I forget that you live in a people zoo.

Matt Эллен

peopled by people. watched at by bears

Robusto

Old joke: Two hikers in the woods spot a bear, and one of the hikers tosses down his pack, takes off his hiking shoes and puts on running shoes. The other hiker says, "Hey, why are you putting on running shoes? You can't outrun a bear." The first hiker says, "I don't have to outrun the bear. I just have to outrun you."

tchrist

bahs

Cerberus

@Robusto Yeah, it is a strange thing. I don't feel that I have to fight, but somehow a certain serenity and understanding can follow. Doesn't always happen.

RegDwight АΑA

old laughs

Cerberus

14:43

@RegDwightАΑA You're assuming that what we do now helps (and I'm not talking about deleting spam and real gibberish, which is always good).

RegDwight АΑA

And you're assuming it doesn't.

tchrist

Stephen: Do you . . . Do you know the best way to escape a charging polar bear?
Jeremy: Shoot it in the face.
Alan: I know! I know! [presses buzzer, which sings "Everything's Coming Up Roses"]
Stephen: Yes, go on.
Alan: You take your clothes off.
Stephen: Exactly. It stops to pick up your clothes and smell them, and you just get further away from them.
Jeremy: That is the biggest load of nonsense . . .
Clive: And then you die of . . .
Stephen: You would obviously be chilly, I suspect.
Alan: But you won't be eaten, so . . .

Cerberus

@Robusto Hah. I may have heard it before, but it's still good.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist My, that's quite interesting

tchrist

bows

Clarkson’s wrapper bit at the end is what makes it work.

Cerberus

14:47

@RegDwightАΑA I am not sure what to think; but I am not convinced as of yet. The damage, on the other hand, is clear: you and others spend lots and lots of time doing a janitor's job instead of having fun studying English; and lots of people are unhappy because their questions get closed, and others because their answers are to a closed question.

Matt Эллен

:D

tchrist

I hate Clarkson, but he can on rare occasion be funny.

Matt Эллен

it's true

KitFox

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Robusto

@KitFox Not if it's a digital clock.

RegDwight АΑA

14:48

@Cerberus I have to do a janitor's job in order to earn the right to be here.

Matt Эллен

lol

Cerberus

@tchrist Lovely.

@RegDwightАΑA For me, you have earned it a thousand times over, so you need not worry.

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus it's not a thing you earn once.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Let us know when you're getting close to earning it. We'll start planning a party for you.

RegDwight АΑA

See, Rob's right on the money as usual.

Cerberus

14:49

But, yes, the majority want it this way, so I suppose in that way they expect this cleaning of you.

RegDwight АΑA

I have no idea if the majority want it this way. In fact I suspect they don't. But I want it that way.

Cerberus

As I said, I am the minority.

RegDwight АΑA

I Want It That Way

"I Want It That Way" is a song by the Backstreet Boys, and their first single from their 1999 album Millennium. It was written by Max Martin and Andreas Carlsson along with other producers. The song was highly played on the radio and the video, directed by Wayne Isham, was well played on television. It was later released on the Backstreet Boys' greatest hits album, The Hits: Chapter One, in 2001. It is considered one of their signature songs. The song is still routinely played on both radio and video and the single has been highly critically acclaimed, winning and being nominated for v...

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA They do: look at the voting and the election.

Robusto

@Cerberus Shall we take that as your minority report?

RegDwight АΑA

14:50

@Cerberus no, you are the majority. Stop whining.

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA The majority are always whining.

Cerberus

@Robusto I thought that's what it was...

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus it's not that cut and dry. Don't pretend it's that simple, or simple at all.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Yeah. Tall, white, educated Dutchmen can't claim minority status.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA Okay, it's not simple.

Matt Эллен

14:51

@Cerberus the majority didn't vote in the election

Cerberus

But most voices I hear seem to favour the strict approach.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Hm.

Cerberus

@Robusto Three-headed dogs?

RegDwight АΑA

@Cerberus and the most voices you hear belong to twenty-odd people. We have 20 thousand users now.

Cerberus

With snake manes, even though they can't have manes?

Matt Эллен

14:52

17 hours ago, by Caleb

> 2,698 voters were eligible, 604 visited the site during the election, 695 visited the election page, and 137 voted

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Cut and dried is the more common expression. Just FYI.

Cerberus

@RegDwightАΑA Yes, yes, I meant the majority of the high-rep users, and of the voters, and of the moderator's electorate.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto I was expecting that. You are getting slow.

Robusto

@Cerberus If they bite people, yes, that confers majority status instantaneously.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto here's the fancy new deletion page i was referring to: english.stackexchange.com/review-beta/low-quality-posts/749

Cerberus

14:53

The majority of the people who normally concern themselves with policy.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA I was going to post an NGram but I figured people wouldn't get the joke and I would be pilloried for it. Oh well.

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh, bummer.

Robusto

Cerberus

Hmm, that's quite a lot of cut-and-drys.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto where's the line for "pilloried"? The graph is lacking a line for "pilloried".

Robusto

14:54

@Cerberus But it proves I'm right in all things.

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ oh! they've rolled it out the beta to here! yay!

Cerberus

@Robusto That line doesn't look right at all. Crooked, rather.

It's not even a line, mathematically.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Easy, big guy. Take a breath. You talk better when you're not so over-amped with excitement.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I am not the pineapple of the English language speaking

Robusto

@Cerberus Nevertheless, I'm still right in all things. Six eyes and you still can't see that. snarf

Matt Эллен

14:56

I am of native speaking the English

Robusto

@MattЭллен That's more like it.

Cerberus

@Robusto I can't see the big triangular square in the sky either—gosh, there must be something wrong with my eyes.

Robusto

@MattЭллен You mean "I am native of the speaking of the English."

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I assures youeth they're is never mistaken on my speaking

Robusto

@MattЭллен What ever is doing mistake has apprehension of you.

tchrist

15:00

@Robusto takes away your autochthonoparlant creds

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I precise the grammar and correcting image

Robusto

@Cerberus It's a plot!. I knew it!

Matt Эллен

ok, I give in, I can't talk like that any more

tchrist

Hm, chatty buried cars.

RegDwight АΑA

Cerberus

15:01

@Robusto Huh, if it's plotted, is it a plot?

RegDwight АΑA

Alles muß man selber machen.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA Schade.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA so... pilloried isn't a word

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен and neither is "Robusto".

Robusto

Or RegDwight.

RegDwight АΑA

15:03

Or orange.

tchrist

@Robusto Chapter the Eleventh: In Which The Plot, Behaving In Much The Same Manner As A Soup To Which Cornstarch Has Been Added, Begins, At Last, To Thicken. (quoth Paarfi of Roundwood)

Robusto

At least there are things that rhyme with RegDwight. "Edge light," for example.

RegDwight АΑA

However, oranges do exist.

So there. English haz pluralz only.

JSBձոգչ

ur ngrams crashed chrome

take that, googlez!

Robusto

@tchrist Don't you dare make me start looking at tvtropes.org.

tchrist

15:06

@Robusto Phoenix Guards, Stephen Brust. NFTVTROPES.

Robusto

Your English sounds a little Brusty.

tchrist

You mispronuncified it.

His surname rhymes with roost.

He’s hungry.

RegDwight АΑA

Brustil is a great country.

Better than Magyarorszag.

tchrist

Hence the soup.

Brussels is not a country.

RegDwight АΑA

I thought Brussels is Europe?

Robusto

15:07

@tchrist I pronounced it Broosty. You just misheard it.

tchrist

You’re loosing it again.

RegDwight АΑA

He was born onboard the Loosertania.

tchrist

Which is why he so enjoys a fine port.

In a storm.

JSBձոգչ

i'm going to kill all of you.

where's @Martha when you need her?

RegDwight АΑA

That's a looser ping.

tchrist

15:11

Phoenix Guards is a Dumas homage, of the Musketeers and such. It’s delightfully witty.

RegDwight АΑA

Who you call a Dumass?

tchrist

Your genitives are showing.

RegDwight АΑA

@Kit your website is impressive.

@tchrist I'm a grower, not a shower.

JSBձոգչ

it keeps getting worse and worse

RegDwight АΑA

Just wait for it to get wurst.

Wurst

Wurst ist ein Nahrungsmittel, das aus zerkleinertem Fleisch, Speck, Salz und Gewürzen, bei bestimmten Sorten auch unter Verwendung von Blut und Innereien zubereitet wird. Die vorbereitete Masse, das Brät, wird in Därme, Blasen oder Mägen gefüllt, durch Abbinden mit Wurstgarn oder Abklammern mit rostfreien Metallklammern in einzelne Würste unterteilt und je nach Sorte durch Kochen oder Backen gegart oder durch Trocknen mit oder ohne zusätzliches Räuchern konserviert. Bei industriell hergestellter Wurst werden häufig Kunstdärme, auch Gläser und Konservendosen verwendet. In Deutschlan...

Matt Эллен

15:15

now it's a real sausage party

JSBձոգչ

wooo! my friends just posted on facebook that their son has his last intrathecal chemotherapy treatment today!

(just to put the rest of your problems in perspective)

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен a saw such party? What is this grammar?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA I ain't no grammar

I don't even have kids

RegDwight АΑA

@JSBձոգչ that's unfair, using chemotherapy as combo breaker.

JSBձոգչ

@MattЭллен then none of them have cancer. good for you!

Matt Эллен

15:17

@JSBձոգչ I was talking about being a grammar, but that too :D

JSBձոգչ

adds Matt to the list of punsters to be pun-ished

KitFox

@RegDwightАΑA nods gracefully

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ I'm on there twice now? That's double the pun for me

RegDwight АΑA

@JSBձոգչ Too right. Your puns are too weak to be considered proper puns. They are merely pun-ish.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA But decidedly not punny.

JSBձոգչ

15:22

i just hit the deletion vote limit :(

for the first time ever, i think

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto They make up for it by being puny.

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ Slacker!

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ Well, I guess we know what kind of a mod you would have been.

JSBձոգչ

hey, my platform was entirely tag-based, not deletophilic

KitFox

Or flagophilic?

Robusto

15:24

@JSBձոգչ But deleterious just the same.

JSBձոգչ

well, @Kit just got elected for being foxy

KitFox

Sex sells. What can I say?

Matt Эллен

sex cells!

RegDwight АΑA

Better foxy than faux-y.

JSBձոգչ

better faux-y than folksy

KitFox

15:25

I'm folksier than Palin!

Robusto

Sects sell!

Matt Эллен

poksier than flailing

JSBձոգչ

Sechs söll!

RegDwight АΑA

Flailing wistix.

KitFox

Plus, I didn't let my teenage daughter get knocked up because I think that adolescents shouldn't know what sex is.

Matt Эллен

15:27

How is babby formed?

JSBձոգչ

well clearly whatserface knew what sex was

RegDwight АΑA

Adolescent of a woman.

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ Exactly. So her mom didn't do a very good job, eh?

Well, and to be fair, maybe she didn't know that that was sex, since no one was telling anyway.

RegDwight АΑA

Too bad the mom knows what sex is.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox did you allow her to at the end of a sentence a preposition put?

KitFox

15:29

I know, right? Especially since she was also a knocked-up-out-of-wedlock teen.

JSBձոգչ

who? palin the elder?

Matt Эллен

Michael Palin!

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ Yes.

afk

JSBձոգչ

@KIt did not know that

RegDwight АΑA

So, anyone volunteering to answer Xavier's question? I don't feel up to the task. Even though I just learned that tomorrow's a day off.

KitFox

15:40

@JSBձոգչ Oh, my bad. She wasn't a teenager. She was 24.

@RegDwightАΑA Which question? His Meta question?

RegDwight АΑA

Yeah...

KitFox

And it is theoretically possible that Track was just, you know, born early.

RegDwight АΑA

I wish I were in the mood to dig up the deleted exchanges. Not easy.

Matt Эллен

brumm!

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox really? you believe the "track is really an illegitimate grandchild" conspiracy theory?

KitFox

15:43

@JSBձոգչ No, no, Track is their oldest boy.

Not Trig.

Jez

heh, 3 interviews in 3 days.

trouble is, it's with the 3 companies i was least interested in.

KitFox

@RegDwightАΑA OK, OK, let me think it over.

RegDwight АΑA

►

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox oh, right. i'm not up on the palin family tree. sorry for tarring you with that brush.

KitFox

sok.

I just really hate hypocrites.

Really, really intolerant of hypocrites.

RegDwight АΑA

15:49

Oh and @Cerberus.

KitFox

A reminder to all our writing friends, chat starts in about fifteen minutes in The Overlook:

RegDwight АΑA

in The Overlook Hotel, Aug 11 at 1:02, by Neil Fein

@RegDwightАΑA I am vaguely tempted to open an Area 51 proposal: Close all the questions! All questions asked here will be migrated to ELU or closed. brickwall.stackexchange.com.

KitFox

The Overlook Hotel

General discussion for writing.stackexchange.com. Writing exer...

RegDwight АΑA

Damn, tweened.

KitFox

Damn, tweened.

RegDwight АΑA

15:49

I got a reminder already.

JSBձոգչ

honestly i don't think sarah palin deserves half of the ire pointed at her

RegDwight АΑA

Jinx.

Oh stop this tweening.

JSBձոգչ

it's not a jinx if you do it on purpose

ΜετάEd

@RegDwightАΑA That's a great article.

RegDwight АΑA

I want coke, is all.

@ΜετάEd he has more. If you can spare an hour or twenty, check out his other Internet Writings.

I used to print them out and read them on the bus.

ΜετάEd

15:50

@RegDwightАΑA Yeah, I'm on the site.

RegDwight АΑA

Lots of stuff in there. From micropayment to email to reddit to google.

JSBձոգչ

i've read a big chunk of his archives

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ I really wouldn't expect you to understand. But her behavior directly threatens my personal freedoms, and her smug little face as she promotes sexism everywhere just makes me want to punch her.

JSBձոգչ

i would never vote for her, to be clear. (of course, i don't vote at all these days.)

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA I knew it. You're a predialectic deconstructionist. The enemy of Habermasian public spheres.

JSBձոգչ

15:52

but i find it interesting that the fact that she's a woman and conservative evidently makes her fair game for every vile misogynist trope in the book

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto stop with the Armenian already. I've had my share for the week.

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ To be fair, most people who think Palin an idiot don't have to resort to such base tactics and would, in fact, decry them as well.

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ You can be a conservative woman (Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe) without being a misogynist. Palin is a misogynist, and it's revolting how much she revels in it.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto you must live in a different part of the internet than me.

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ Well, I don't live in a Fox echo chamber, if that's what you mean.

KitFox

15:54

Now I need to unknot my panties for Writers chat.

Later.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto eh, what? the fox echo chamber isn't the one attacking Palin with misogyny

Robusto

@KitFox How come they get the unknotted panties? I think you're playing favorites.

@JSBձոգչ They're the ones who characterized every attack on Palin as elitist or misogynistic or whatever.

JSBձոգչ

oh. can't say i noticed it, seeing as i have never watched fox in my life.

RegDwight АΑA

It's funny how attacks on millionaire politicians can be considered elitist at all.

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ I watch them via The Daily Show.

@RegDwightАΑA Word. Also, $$$.

It's "class warfare" if you try to tax billionaires.

JSBձոգչ

15:58

@Robusto "elitist" attacks are probably fair game, seeing as she truly came across as an idiot during the campaign.

and she's cultivated that kind of persona in the meantime.

meeting.

The Overlook Hotel

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