English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

9:02 PM

@MetaEd It is a classical problem in philosophy. I think Frege mentioned it first, but I don't remember.

Along with "the King of France is bold" and "this sentence is nonsense".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Time to go... have a good weekend folks!

Cerberus

You too!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ degree? Deviation? Distance?

Spent, AFK regen.

Matt Эллен

9:23 PM

So I think that saying "not" something can make something a privative based on context. So "not 13" is not a privative in "it's 8 not 13" since you're left with 8, which is not an absence.
In fact "not 13" by itself is not a privative since you are left with all other numbers.
Something like "I've no apples" does create a privative because you have an absence of apples @Cerberus

MetaEd

Descriptivist theory of names

Descriptivist theory of names is a view of the nature of the meaning and reference of proper names generally attributed to Gottlob Frege and Bertrand Russell. The theory consists essentially in the idea that the meanings (semantic contents) of names are identical to the descriptions associated with them by speakers, while their referents are determined to be the objects that satisfy these descriptions. In the 1970s, this theory came under strong attack from causal theorists such as Saul Kripke, Hilary Putnam and others. However, it has seen something of a revival in recent years, especial...

Matt Эллен

also, most of the snow is gone

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I don't understand the difference between having all kinds of fruit left, or all kinds of numbers.

@MattЭллен Yay!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus because I'm thinking of a basket that only had apples in it

mathematically "not 13" is just any other number

Cerberus

Eh..

Why can't you think of a shop that has only items marked "13"?

Matt Эллен

9:26 PM

in that context, then I guess you've got a privative :)

Cerberus

And why not of a basket with several kinds of fruits?

Matt Эллен

because fruits must be kept separate!

Cerberus

Haha.

Well, one apple should also be kept separate from another.

Matt Эллен

lest they have ideas

Vitaly

@Cerberus how would you analyse “I'm going home. Are you coming with me?” in terms of topic time, time of situation, and time of utterance?

Matt Эллен

9:28 PM

Cerberus

@Vitaly What is "topic time"?

@MattЭллен Hmm I didn't even know who that guy was, sorry...

Hehe.

Mitch

Speaking of 'concepts are fuzzy'...look at the latest answer for:

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/26385/what-do-you-call-those-divisions-of-a-book-bigger-than-a-paragraph-but-smaller-t

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus ah well, maybe next time!

Vitaly

> “the time for which the particular utterance makes an assertion” (Klein 1994: 37)

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yup!

Matt Эллен

9:30 PM

he has a distinctive voice

Mitch

earnest but...

Cerberus

@Vitaly Am I supposed to analyze this as uttered by you right there, or is there more context?

Mitch

Cripes, how do you do the 'embedding a question' here?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch just paste a link to the question

magic will take care of the rest

Mitch

I did but it just gives the text of the link not the nice picture and text of the SE question.

I don't have the magic dust that makes it actually work.

Cerberus

9:32 PM

@Vitaly I'm actually not sure what this means. Does it mean "the period(s) of time about which something is stated in the statement"?

Vitaly

@Cerberus No context. I was trying to explain to a Russian acquiantance of mine why it's supposed to be “I'm going home” instead of “I go” (in an English exercise). Then I realised I couldn't do it based on what he was already supposed to know (view of the situation from within, ongoing events, etc).

Matt Эллен

@Mitch it has to be the only thing in the line of text

Cerberus

@Mitch Your entire line needs to be only the link.

Matt Эллен

jinx!

Vitaly

@Cerberus — Welcome to the club, I'm not sure either. :P

Cerberus

9:33 PM

@Vitaly Haha OK.

Well, if you say "I'm going home" now, it means "I will go home in the near future; I am about to start the process".

So the time of utterance is "now" obviously; the time in which the content of the main verbal root will take place is the near future.

Vitaly

Yes, but why the progressive? Which function of the progressive is that? In other words, how could that sentence be analysed in terms of TT, TU, and Tsit?

Cerberus

The function is simply the description of something that will happen in the near future.

It is perhaps not progressive at all.

It is generally not considered progressive, I believe.

It is even more clear in "we're getting married in June".

Matt Эллен

going home is a process, so it's not something that just happens

or I'm playing football now

Mitch

13

Q: What do you call those divisions of a book bigger than a paragraph but smaller than a chapter?

In printed books, or at least in novels, there are often major breaks within a chapter more important than paragraphs. Often they are separated by a greater amount of whitespace than paragraphs and sometimes this whitespace will contain special symbols such as ⁂ or * * * or even a custom symbol....

Vitaly

“I went home.”

^ That just happened in the past.

Mitch

9:36 PM

Whee!! that worked!

Cerberus

It is close in meaning to "going to + inf." and "will + inf.", except that there a sense of nearness.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly "I've gone home" just happened in the past. "I went home" could have happened anytime

Cerberus

@Mitch Congratulations! You have won the first round. Will you go on to the second round? You can win a toothbrush!

Vitaly

1 min ago, by Matt Эллен

going home is a process, so it's not something that just happens

in that sense of “just happens”

Matt Эллен

mmm toothbrush

Mitch

9:38 PM

I have a toothbrush.

Cerberus

@Vitaly So what is the problem exactly? How to explain when this construction is used?

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly I've not phrased it too well...

Cerberus

Which aspect it has?

Vitaly

@Cerberus i explained it to him just like you did. i'm trying to analyse it for myself.

Mitch

anyway...Alenanno fixed the answer it so it almost looks normal.

Cerberus

9:40 PM

@Vitaly OK but I don't think there is that much to be analysed, at least not synchronically: it is pretty idiomatic.

Mitch

"fleurons": the parts of a chapter larger than a paragraph are (suggested to be) called "fleurons".

Vitaly

Cerberus

The meaning of the whole doesn't follow from its parts.

@Mitch Haha what the...

Vitaly

something like that

Cerberus

Arg I hate lazy linguistics and their stupid abbreviations.

Bad, bad writing.

Makes it so much harder to follow. Just write your terms in full. Why the heck not?

Matt Эллен

9:43 PM

because lazy

Cerberus

smacks you

aedia λ

@Cerberus The same reason you like to make AHK do everything for you?

Matt Эллен

owee!

@aediaλ lol, yes!

aedia λ

hides behind rainbow

Cerberus

@aediaλ Then why don't they use Autohotkey? I use its text expansion all the time. For example, I just typed "ahkqq" there.

And hello little unicorn!

@Vitaly Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me at all.

Matt Эллен

9:45 PM

@Cerberus it's typical "in group" use of language to exclude people

Vitaly

@Cerberus ok never mind then

Cerberus

I don't understand the difference between Topic Time and Time of Situation at all.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Because people they're talking to are expected to know what "ahkqq" means, I suppose.

Cerberus

@Vitaly Do you?

@MattЭллен Yes, but then why bother publishing?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus so their in group can agree with them

in public

aedia λ

9:47 PM

@Cerberus Did I tell you my deadline got extended a little bit?

Just in time for me to have already worked a million zillion hours, but that's ok. At least I won't have to work the weekend or anything.

Cerberus

@Vitaly Again, I don't think "I'm going home" really deserves the name of progressive/continuous. I suppose you could say it denotes ingression: there are several functions of tenses/aspects/suffixes in other languages that can turn a verb into an ingressive verb.

I.e. a verb that indicates the start of a certain action.

Vitaly

@Cerberus glottopedia.de/index.php/Klein's_%281994%29_theory_of_tense

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Very nice and sympathetic.

@aediaλ Oh, yay!

aedia λ

Also, now I kind of have to fix things that before we were probably gonna be like "meh no time to fix" so waah. But, well, at least I feel like this stuff might get done.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Did you complain, or did I come up with the extension themselves?

@Vitaly Could you wrap that backticks pleeeease?

@aediaλ OK I am glad!

Vitaly

9:50 PM

eh?

Cerberus

I can't open your link now.

But if you write it like this I will be able to drag it up to open.

Vitaly

I can. I don't see anything wrong with the link.

Oh.

Cerberus

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus if you clickzee on the linkzee it will openzee, ya?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Nopez! Wrong linkiez wil openz.

Vitaly

9:51 PM

but whatever: http://www.glottopedia.de/index.php/Klein's_(1994)_theory_of_tense

Cerberus

@Vitaly Yeah chat is fucked up like that.

Matt Эллен

I blame JA's use of javascript

Cerberus

> The Topic Time "IS THE TIME SPAN TO WHICH THE SPEAKER’S CLAIM ON THIS OCCASION IS CONFINED" (Klein 1994: 4). For example, if a judge asksa witness: "What did you notice when you looked into the room?" and the witness answers: "There was a book on the table. It was in Russian", the Topic Time is the point in time at which the witnessed looked into the room.

I'm afraid I still don't get it. How is this different from the time of situation?

Vitaly

seriously? TSit is when the light was actually on. TT is when the speaker claims the light was on.

Cerberus

Uh...then the time of situation is extralinguistic?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:55 PM

Works fine here, BTW.

Vitaly

@Cerberus arghh why do you have to use weird words like that!

Matt Эллен

outside of language

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And now I have encoded the parentheses so it should work for everyone.

Matt Эллен

@Vitaly because he's a lazy linguist, like the rest of them

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Huh! That is weird. I am on a fresh profile, with hardly any add-ons installed.

Vitaly

9:56 PM

figures :)

Cerberus

@Vitaly Sorry: if that's what it means, it doesn't seem to be a property of a linguistic utterance at all.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattЭллен Hey I would call you lazy if I could be bothered.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 I call you owly

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You misspelled orly.

Matt Эллен

orly?

aedia λ

9:57 PM

@Cerberus I mostly just kept pointing out that we couldn't do an impossible number of things before breakfast, and the decision-makers decided everyone needed more time. It's not like it was a real crisis or something, so eventually people saw some sort of reason :)

Cerberus

@aediaλ Very good. That sounds sensible.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

A: In a sequence of words where the "ends" are opposites, what do you call the middle word?

You have the wrong picture in your head, namely, a straight line segment in which the antonyms are at the two ends. The correct picture is that of a circle, with the top point removed, and the two antonyms pulled back just a bit. The “bottom” point is the “neutral” point. Then, whether you are d...

> That is, being too early or being too late are SYNONYMS in relation to being “on time”.

Now that is an interesting point.

aedia λ

@Cerberus In the meantime, I've been on such autopilot in the rest of my life that, for instance, we got new soap dispensers in the w($k bathroom and I don't know when they were installed. I'm a little worried if I ask someone they'll tell me I've been using 'em since, like, Tuesday and I just haven't noticed.

I also can't remember anything I wore or ate lately. I'm hoping that both were appropriate.

Cerberus

@Vit: As I learned it, the main distinction is between the time of utterance (when did the speaker or writer form the words?) and the time of reference (to which time does the speaker refer?). I can't quite fit these times of situation and topic in. In "There was a book on the table. It was in Russian.", the time referred to is the same as this time of topic, then; but what is the "time of situation"? The witness doesn't say anything about how long the book will be lying there.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Yeah, that! I know those things and don't understand the other things!

Matt Эллен

10:07 PM

@Cerberus I guess the time of situation is the time frame the judge is referring to

Cerberus

Can a time of situation exist without an utterance? It appears so; then how is it relevant to the utterance? If I say "three people climbed the pyramid", what is the time of situation? The time during which this assertion is actually true? I don't know, but this doesn't sound like he right direction.

Matt Эллен

but I don't really know

Vitaly

26 mins ago, by Vitaly

Cerberus

@aediaλ Hmm you should really be careful. People get burn-outs without noticing that they do, because they are too busy.

Vitaly

take a look at the diagram

Cerberus

10:08 PM

@aediaλ Haha thanks.

@MattЭллен The judge? But isn't this about the utterance of the witness?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus but only relevant to the judge's question

Cerberus

@Vitaly I don't really understand it.

Vitaly

in Paul was running, time of situation includes topic time

as can be illustrated by e.g. Paul was running when he noticed me

we aren't concerned with something that happens before or after the timeframe referred to by TT

Cerberus

@Vitaly I'm afraid I don't understand this either.

I'd simply say that "Paul was running" refers to a period while "he noticed me" refers to a point.

So that the action of noticing me can lie within the period during which the action of running took place.

Vitaly

what “the latter”? i'm talking about the TT and TSit of was running

he noticed is only relevant as long as it illustrates TT

anyway, in Paul ran, TT includes TSit (they may be considered equal)

and in There was a book on the table, TT = TSit in that sense

27 mins ago, by Vitaly

@Cerberus ok never mind then

Cerberus

10:13 PM

I still don't understand how "Paul was running" and "he noticed me" are essentially different, except that one is a point in time and the other a period. There are words for this difference: durative and non-durative, I believe.

Vitaly

...

Cerberus

I know, not relevant.

I meant to say that before your last block.

Vitaly

the TT of Paul was running in Paul was running when he noticed me is confined to a timeframe a bit around the point in he noticed me

Cerberus

@Vitaly That makes sense, but you could use "time of reference" there.

Vitaly

while the TSit of Paul was running in Paul was running when he noticed me starts when Paul starts running and ends when Paul stops running in the real world, literally

Cerberus

10:17 PM

Hmm then we are back at the question, "is this time of situation about language at all?".

He may have started running just as I caught his eye.

He may stop just as my brain focuses its attention on something else.

Vitaly

you are saying that as if language is some abstract bunch of rules and concepts that exists independently of reality

in other words, our knowledge about TSit comes from our knowledge of reality, not our knowledge of language

Cerberus

Well, language refers to reality, but you can only talk about language in that respect in as much as it refers to reality—you cannot talk about language if you are only talking about reality.

Vitaly

and I believe aspectuality in language is the relation between TSit and TT

Cerberus

And why is continuous v. "regular" not simply equal to durative v. non-durative?

I need only one concept: time of reference. Klein's method seems to need more things.

Vitaly

@Cerberus He's always losing his temper

scratch that, it's actually analysed under Duration in CGEL

anyway, CGEL lists a few aspectual uses of the progressive aspect other than the durative one

Cerberus

10:24 PM

@Vitaly OK, such as?

I'm going home; are you coming with me?

Vitaly

and a bunch of non-aspectual uses of the progressive, but I'm going home doesn't seem lika a non-aspectual use

Cerberus

No?

I simply take it as expressing that you announce you do something in the near future.

You could say that the announcement is already part of the action, so that it has already begun at the moment he utters it.

Vitaly

it just doesn't feel like the TT is situated in the future

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I would say that

Vitaly

it feels more like a continuous process that has already begun prior to the moment of utterance

Matt Эллен

10:28 PM

It could have

Vitaly

e.g. the speaker was sitting at the table and then he stood up

and his act of standing up could already signify his “going home”

Matt Эллен

so that makes it progressive, no?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Yeah that is kind of my worry. I think it will be better as this project wraps up and my daily tasks change a little, but I haven't had time to even think about that... Ah well. Going to finish up what I can today and try to relax over the weekend.

Vitaly

yup, that would make it an aspectual use of the progressive

Cerberus

By implication (because it makes sense that the larger part of his "going home" will take place after his utterance, because he needs to jump in his car etc.), it becomes clear that if he says "I'm going home", he is already in the process of going home; the unusual thing is just that, normally, we make sure that we refer to the main part of our action by our choice of verb construction, while here we use a construction that refers to the preliminary phase of the action.

Vitaly

10:31 PM

actually...

----++++[++++++++]++++----
TSit includes TT

so the ---- at the start is when the speaker was not going home yet

the ++++ is when the speaker has already started going home (stood up, etc)

and the [++++] (topic time) is what Cerberus is calling the “main part” of “going home”

Mahnax

0

Q: What are some good books on rhetoric?

I'm trying to improve my rhetoric (especially for public speaking and writing in general - both technical and non-technical writing) and I'm trying to get a list of books which I'll have to read in the next couple of years. Does anyone know of books that I can read to learn more about the subject...

writing writing-style rhetoric

Cerberus

Is making the decision and planning the journey already part of the action of going home?

@Vitaly Hmm you think so?

Vitaly

@Cerberus why not? he's referring to the main part of his going home (as you said) while he's been already going home, so that places TT within TSit, hence the imperfective

Cerberus

To me, the "main part" and any preliminary parts do not have fixed boundaries at all: they depend on definition.

Take the aorist in Greek. The verb basileuo normally means "to be king"; but, when used in the aorist, which expresses a non-durative aspect, it is normally translated as "to become king".

Though perhaps this only complicates things.

Vitaly

@RegDwight are we trying to fight MD off?

Mahnax

10:55 PM

3

Q: What's wrong with "Have a nice day"?

I once read the book "Class: A Guide Through the American Status System" by Paul Fussell. There, he mentioned that saying "Have a nice day" was a faux pas, without elaborating why. I'm not American, this is way too subtle for me and Google did not help. Therefore, I ask here, what is wrong with t...

phrases politeness class-based-usage

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Vitaly No.

Mahnax

I'm debating with myself on whether or not I should post an answer to that question there.

Matt Эллен

post one!

Mahnax

Will you let me know if it's good?

Matt Эллен

with votes!

Mahnax

11:04 PM

Alright, here goes, haha.

0

A: What's wrong with "Have a nice day"?

The phrase "have a nice day" is commonly heard coming from the mouths of those in service positions (source: I work at a fast food restaurant). Since he makes note that the middle class is large and earns little, and is largely uneducated, he may assume that these uneducated folk will be filling...

What do you think, @Matt?

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax If you put an alternative parting platitude for the OP, I'll give you a +1

Mahnax

@MattЭллен Hahaha.

Deal.

Matt Эллен

It explains what is wrong with the phrase (in the eyes of the Paul Fussell), so it's a good answer

Mahnax

I think that I'm either right, or way, way off.

Cerberus

That phrase is commonly ridiculed here.

It probably has to do with non-U.

Mahnax

11:11 PM

Which phrase? Have a nice day?

Cerberus

Yes.

Mahnax

What is this "non-u"?

Cerberus

U and non-U English

{| class="wikitable" cellpadding="5" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-top: 1em" ! bgcolor="#66ccff"|U ! bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Non-U |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Bike or Bicycle | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Cycle |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Dinner Jacket | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Dress Suit |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Knave | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Jack (cards) |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Vegetables | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Greens |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Ice | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Ice Cream |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Scent | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Perfume |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|They've a very nice house. | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|They have (g...

Mahnax

U and non-U English

{| class="wikitable" cellpadding="5" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-top: 1em" ! bgcolor="#66ccff"|U ! bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Non-U |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Bike or Bicycle | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Cycle |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Dinner Jacket | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Dress Suit |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"| Knave | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Jack (cards) |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Vegetables | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Greens |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Ice | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Ice Cream |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|Scent | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|Perfume |- | bgcolor="#66ccff"|They've a very nice house. | bgcolor="#ffcccc"|They have (g...

?

Ohh, I win.

Cerberus

Haha yes.

Mahnax

11:12 PM

What the...?

Cerberus

Mine is on top!

Matt Эллен

:D

Mahnax

Why is it just random nonsense?

Cerberus

@Mahnax That is the table.

Is yours on top in your browser?

Mahnax

@Cerberus I suppose it is!

@Cerberus No.

I was saying "I win" in a not-so-winning sense.

If that makes any sense whatsoever.

Cerberus

11:14 PM

Oh, of course.

Mahnax

Hehe.

Cerberus

How stupid of me that I didn't realize that.

Mahnax

I'm sorry if I have offended you.

Cerberus

I was kidding!

Mahnax

I know!

Cerberus

11:15 PM

Dammit.

Then you've won.

This round.

Matt Эллен

there's no sarcasm markup in chat

Mahnax

@Cerberus covers ears

@Cerberus uncovers ears

Yay!

@MattЭллен How unfortunate.

Haha.

What an odd song.

I can't really understand the lyrics.

Mahnax

11:20 PM

Nobody can, really.

Cerberus

OK.

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax I don't even need to listen to know it's awesome

Mahnax

┌┬┐┏┳┓┍┯┑┎┰┒╒╤╕╔╦╗╓╥╖
├┼┤┣╋┫┝┿┥┠╂┨╞╪╡╠╬╣╟╫╢
└┴┘┗┻┛┕┷┙┖┸┚╘╧╛╚╩╝╙╨╜

Matt Эллен

p.s. I'm a big SOAD fan :D

Mahnax

@MattЭллен u likehz dah seestehm?

@MattЭллен Me too!

Matt Эллен

11:22 PM

Aye!

Cerberus

I used to listen to them.

Saw them live once or twice.

They were the bomb when I was 18 or so.

Matt Эллен

:D

Indeed

You musical tasted broadened since then, Cerb?

Cerberus

I don't know.

Mahnax

Aww, I've never seen them live.

Cerberus

I still kinda like metal and such, but I never listen to it any more.

Matt Эллен

11:25 PM

@Mahnax awww, they still tour. you still have a chance!

@Cerberus what do you prefer these days?

Mahnax

@MattЭллен Actually, they just got off of hiatus.

They weren't together for some time.

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax didn't they do Rock in Rio last year?

Mahnax

System of a Down

System of a Down is a rock band from Southern California. The band was formed in 1994. It consists of Serj Tankian (lead vocals, keyboards, rhythm guitar), Daron Malakian (guitar, vocals), Shavo Odadjian (bass, background vocals) and John Dolmayan (drums). The band achieved commercial success with the release of five studio albums; from which three debuted at number one on the Billboard 200. System of a Down has been nominated for four Grammy Awards, and won the award in 2006 for Best Hard Rock Performance for the song "B.Y.O.B.". Beginning August 13, 2006, the group went on hiatus, bu...

@MattЭллен Maybe.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hmm mostly classical and non-recent, non-English-or-Dutch songs.

Mahnax

But Wikipedia says they were on hiatus 'til 2011.

Matt Эллен

11:27 PM

►

Mahnax

@MattЭллен That's 2011. It all fits!

Matt Эллен

@Mahnax yeah, that's true. I remember reading the "We've broken up" thing on Facebook

Mahnax

@MattЭллен How long ago was that?

Matt Эллен

and Shavo going off to do hip hop suff, and Serj doing his solo stuff

Mahnax

Serj's solo was pretty good.

Matt Эллен

11:28 PM

@Mahnax whenever it says in wiki :D

@Cerberus I'm not much a connoisseur of classical. what odo you recommend?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hmm depends on what you like, I guess.

Any instruments you like?

Do you want a song?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Well, I know I like Beethoven's 5th (is that the one, march of spring, or something?) and the 18 12 overture

MetaEd

Rite of spring? XD

Cerberus

OK, and do you like symphonies in general?

Matt Эллен

probably

Cerberus

11:31 PM

I don't know what his 5th is called, but it is the most famous one.

Mahnax

Housework, bye folks.

Matt Эллен

cya @Mahnax :)

Cerberus

youtube.com/…

MetaEd

It's called his Fifth Symphony, mostly.

Cerberus

Maybe try Mahler's 5th.

MetaEd

11:34 PM

Or his Symphony No. 5.

Matt Эллен

wait, 5th's not what I meant at all!

Cerberus

I like it very much. It is a bit sadder than Beethoven's.

Matt Эллен

Beethoven's 9th. ode to joy :D

Cerberus

Oh, aha.

Matt Эллен

such a ditz

Cerberus

11:35 PM

Well, try Mahler's 5th anyway, unless you want more joyful music. It is tragic, rather.

Bombastic, but tragic.

Matt Эллен

I'm listening :)

Vitaly

Try 4′33″. Best piece of music ever.

Matt Эллен

har har

gets to you every time, eh, @Vitaly?

Vitaly

Absotively. Posilutely.

Spare Oom

I hear music!

@Vitaly I must disagree.

Cerberus

11:38 PM

@Vitaly What's that?

Hi Oom!

Spare Oom

Hi @Cerberus

Vitaly

@Cerberus youtube.com/results?search_query=john+cage+4%2733

Spare Oom

@Cer, Mahler's 1st is great. I don't know the 5th.

Cerberus

pauses Mahler with pain in heart

@SpareOom 1st is great too!

@Vitaly Oh, haha.

Spare Oom

And Rite of Spring! That's Stravinsky. One of Dad's favorites.

Cerberus

11:40 PM

I remember.

Silly post-modernists and their tricks.

Matt Эллен

tricks?

Cerberus

It is several minutes of silence.

That's the composition.

Matt Эллен

oh, I thought you were talking about Stravinsky

Cerberus

It's just a childish experiment to me, not art.

Matt Эллен

yeah, I know 4'33"

Cerberus

11:41 PM

Oh, no.

Spare Oom

I'll try it. I'm not afraid of tragic music. Bombastic or not.

@Cerberus What about tragic vocal music?

Cerberus

By the way, that link I pasted is a live recording in a hall, so the sound is not optimal. It is still good, as with most good concert halls, but not the same as a studio recording.

Well, "studio".

@SpareOom I like it!

As in, opera?

Do you want some?

Spare Oom

►

This one is opera, but not one I've seen.

Cerberus

Do you know "When I am Laid", from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas?

►

Spare Oom

That's what I posted, isn't it?

Cerberus

11:46 PM

Oh, is it!

I had clicked yours but muted it because I wanted to listen to mine till the end, haha.

Matt Эллен

haha

Spare Oom

Great minds?

Cerberus

That is funny. And telepathic.

Of course it is the most famous aria of English opera.

Spare Oom

I have to find your link. How far back is it.

Is it? Try my link of it. It's better. :D

Cerberus

Two lines below yours.

Oh.

@SpareOom Your link is the classic style.

Mine is baroque and fast.

I like both.

Spare Oom

11:48 PM

I was thinking of the quality of the singer's voice.

Plus, when it's slower, the singer can show off her control.

Cerberus

Hmm they both sound excellent to me. But I'm no connoisseur.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus This was the comment I meant regarding an earlier post.

Cerberus

Oh:

►

Spare Oom

I like Purcell's choral music as well. I'm not sure he wrote anything bad.

Cerberus

Mahler's 5th, first movement.

Spare Oom

11:51 PM

Ok, thanks.

MetaEd

Hank Purcell?

Cerberus

The only music I can't stand is music that has neither vigour nor sadness.

MetaEd

"Flow my tears ... fall from your springs" cries

Cerberus

I know.

MetaEd

@Cerberus So ... flaccid music?

Spare Oom

11:52 PM

@MetaEd Yes!!!

MetaEd

Yeah. I hate flaccid music.

Cerberus

@MetaEd That would be an apt term.

But consider Debussy's L'après-midi d'un faun, or whatever it's called.

MetaEd

That was one of my recital numbers a long time ago.

Cerberus

I will never like that nearly as much.

Matt Эллен

> The triangle at 1:10:30 is WRONG!!! the notes should be played 2 bars later

even classical music gets hater comments, on youtube

Cerberus

11:53 PM

Hehe.

@MetaEd Nice!

Spare Oom

I used to only like Baroque music, but I've grown into a broader appreciation. I used to always choose a baroque piece in my lessons if given a choice.

Cerberus

Yeah I remember Bach and Vivaldi were my favourites when I was young.

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