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5:00 PM
I usually only argue when I think it's worth my time. Except that I am sometimes surprised and dragged in against my will, after which there are few ways to escape.
And occasionally I do it just for fun.
@MattЭллен Very good.
 
user19161
I don't argue anymore. I have more important things to do.
 
Right.
 
user19161
@MattЭллен Yum yum. I hate bittergourd, ladies' fingers and aubergine though.
 
@JasperLoy ladyfingers are a type of cookie
 
user19161
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I thought it is a type of cake.
 
user19161
5:03 PM
Ah OK cake cookie, whatever.
 
Never get involved in a comment thread land war in Asia MSO.
-4
Q: Should users with edit capabilities be altering people's style of answering?

pebblI've just noticed a few users with edit permissions basically scan through entire questions and answers, post by post, changing the smallest issues. i.e. modifying 'i' with 'I', re-spacing words, or replacing things with arguably more correct but indubitably more boring language. Now I can fully...

 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 We call those "lange vingers" (long fingers).
 
user19161
@RegDwighт The worst question on MSO.
 
The l in lady-lange is interesting.
It could be an anglicism/batavism.
 
@JasperLoy chicken, fish, vegetables, whatever, right? :)
 
user19161
5:10 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes. (Simple enough for me to understand even though I am slow.)
 
@RegDwighт Hilarious.
Only the colour => color really goes too far.
 
@Cerberus what a douche
 
@Cerberus yeah I liked how to some people everything is a question of style that they declare to be.
 
and by that I mean GEOCHET
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes. But funny.
@RegDwighт As opposed to "wrong"?
 
5:14 PM
when a person posts a question about replacing "i" with "I" and "colour" with "color" you should not edit the mentioned "incorrections".
 
And I mean, I even took a distinguished stance. Neither strictly for nor strictly contra. The result? Rather than have everyone agree with me a little, I have everyone disagree with me a lot.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Especially not if the result is "color into color".
 
user19161
When one edits, one may change the style as well in addition to other things. OP is free to reedit the style. QED.
 
@RegDwighт Look what happened to the Mensheviks.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah that was rather pointless, but again, very representative of pretty much everything there.
 
5:16 PM
People are dicks.
 
haha my edit to repair the color/colour thing is being queued. Guess I'm not enough of an MSO bigshot.
 
@Cerberus I would like to, but I can't see them anywhere.
 
oh, and I can't actually fix the error, because it needs to be 7 characters changed.
 
user19161
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You are definitely a BIGSHOT in ELU chat!
 
@pebbl: I am one such person who is annoyed when I see i instead of I. But how is that your problem? I am the one who shudders, not you, and I am the one who fixes it so none of us shudders anymore. Nobody forces you to shudder and fix the same way. Plus, note that everything you post is no longer yours. If the result is that every second word everywhere is in bold, so be it. If the result is proper English and marvellous typography, so be it. But actually, the result is something in-between, and it's hard for it to be anything else. — ЯegDwight 2 hours ago
I mean, come on. I tried my best to be Solomonic. I really wanted to walk a line there.
@ЯegDwight: It's my problem because in my case, it's a style preference. I use "i". Intentionally. I don't care whether you shudder over it; if it disturbs you that much, then frankly, i think you need to see more of it. Face your fears, man. — cHao 2 hours ago
Then this.
 
user19161
5:19 PM
@RegDwighт No longer yours could be misinterpreted there.
 
@cHao: capitalizing the first-person singular pronoun is not a question of style in Standard English, though. You can't just declare any quirks of yours to a question of style and be done. Of course arguably absolutely everything is a question of style, but that's too broad a definition. We can't work with it. Because botherwise banyone bcould bjust begin bevery bword bwith ba B, and declare that to be his style and tell you to get used to it. It doesn't work that way. — ЯegDwight 14 mins ago
 
@RegDwighт Yes, alas.
 
I consider this to be another Solomonic comment, and yet I won't be checking the replies.
Because, well you know why.
 
user19161
I is correct. i is wrong. QED.
 
@JasperLoy See, I never even went that far.
 
user19161
5:20 PM
@reg You need to end your comments to him with QED so that it sounds authoritative.
 
In fact I expressly called out the guy who said "i" was incorrect grammar.
 
Writers Chat, going on now in The Overlook. Today's topic: free-for-all chat about writing. Bring your opinions.
 
@JasperLoy crap, you tell me that now?
I can't edit on MSO.
 
user19161
Let's go to the Hotel!
 
@RegDwighт Solomonic means displeasing either side. Your comment is rather balanced (though tending towards "my" side as opposed to the OP's).
 
5:21 PM
@Cerberus what did I just say? I won't be reading people's replies to that comment! :P
 
user19161
@RegDwighт Why so many smiles today? It is unlike you.
 
user19161
Also I learnt a new smile. It has become my favourite. It is =).
 
Many? I think this is my second. The first having been a Look of Disapproval, so technically not a smile.
 
Phone.
 
user19161
Cerberus announces Phone and I announce Poo. Both start with P.
 
5:24 PM
I announce Piano!
BBL
 
0
Q: I, me and myself

essenWhat is correct? We are a family of four: my father, my mother, my brother and me. or We are a family of four: my father, my mother, my brother and I. or We are a family of four: my father, my mother, my brother and myself.

dupe
 
@KitFox of this one?
12
Q: When is it correct to use "yourself" and "myself" (versus "you" and "me")?

pm_2I'm confused by why people use the following: It's up to yourself. Rather than: It's up to you. Another example of this would be: Please feel free to contact ourselves if you have any problems. Rather than: Please feel free to contact us if you have any problems. Are both ...

 
I'm not sure. But it really has got to be a dupe.
Maybe the one of I am I/me/myself?
 
Oh, did I miss the writing exercise again?
I should try to get up earlier on Wednesdays.
 
@DavidWallace still on
 
5:38 PM
hello
 
The actual exercise? So I need to hurry if I am to participate?
Hello Meysam.
 
what is the meaning of "precinct"?
 
Designated or set-off area?
 
No no no
 
Umm, it often relates to one division of a police force, and the area that they have in their jurisdiction.
 
5:39 PM
context: voting
 
District?
@DavidWallace Mainly the area, I would say.
 
here is the context: www.timeatlas.com/5_minute_tips/chunkers/learn_to_use_pivot_tables_in_excel_2007_‌​to_organize_data
 
A district which can vote for one candidate, I guess. I would say "electorate".
 
Can you post the sentence?
 
look at the first picture
 
5:40 PM
@DavidWallace Huh??
The electorate is the body of voters.
Not the area.
@Meysam Page not found.
 
Well, I mean, if Mr X is a candidate in an election, then people in a certain area, (which in NZ is called an "electorate") may vote for him. People in other areas can only vote for other candidates.
 
The people, yes.
The area, no.
 
You may use the word "electorate" differently in your area; but this is what it means in NZ and Australian English; and I think in British English too.
 
@DavidWallace The writing chat is still on. It starts at 1700 UTC. we aren't doing an exercise yet.
 
5:42 PM
@Meysam That makes me think of police precincts. Perhaps voting is organised per precinct?
 
I keep forgetting daylight savings.
Everyone in the world should just use UTC.
 
@DavidWallace we DO use UTC.
just, sometimes we format it locally.
 
@DavidWallace That is a metonymic, secondary sense then, why not. But the primary sense is the body of voters, I'd say.
 
OK, everyone in the world should keep all of their clocks set to UTC, and just choose waking/sleeping/eating times that are suitable for their own areas.
2
 
What is this UTC?
I prefer GMT.
 
5:45 PM
@Cerberus Not in NZ or Australia it isn't. And I think, not in UK either. Don't know which English speaking country YOU'RE from.
 
There is something to be said for synchronising world time zones, I guess.
@DavidWallace See the OED.
 
I can see the OED, yes. I suppose you expect me to open it and look up "electorate"?
 
I'm not saying you're not allowed to use derived/metonymic senses.
 
Oh, you want me to look up "metonymic"?
 
@DavidWallace No: that is the full entry, I looked it up for ya.
@DavidWallace ?
 
5:46 PM
Oh, that's just too small to read though. I actually need to click on it.
 
Metonymy is using a word in a changed sense.
There are many kinds of metonymy.
 
Every word is only ever used in a changed sense!
And I strongly doubt that that's the full entry. Let me get my dead tree.
 
Using a place instead of an object is classical metonymy, probably very common.
 
@Cerberus as usual, you're living in the past. UTC replaces GMT since 1961.
 
@DavidWallace It is!
 
5:47 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but he doesn't accept upgrades.
 
@DavidWallace Oh! Wait!
When I clicked "additions"...
I got this special sub-entry for Australia/NZ.
> Add: 3. Austral. and N.Z. The place or district represented by an elected member of the parliament of Australia or New Zealand; a constituency.
There you go.
 
@Cerberus You can't click on "additions!" additions represent change, and change is EVIL (tm 1999 Apple Corps)
 
Heh.
I'm not against all change.
 
My OED has disappointed me by agreeing with you.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And in fact using electorate for the area is not so ugly.
1 min ago, by Cerberus
> Add: 3. Austral. and N.Z. The place or district represented by an elected member of the parliament of Australia or New Zealand; a constituency.
 
5:49 PM
Hmm, constituency - that would be a good word for @Meysam to use in place of precinct, I feel.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And don't you mean "apple core"?
@DavidWallace I still don't think that's what it is!
 
@Cerberus No, an apple core what's inside an iPhone
The latest iPhones have two of them.
like some kind of mutant fruit
 
That addition is not in my paper copy.
 
Oh, those cores.
With worms.
 
But it's really the only way the word is ever used here.
 
5:51 PM
@Cerberus Ew! use pesticide, yo
 
@DavidWallace I don't believe it.
 
@DavidWallace Good thing the OED fixed their dictionary so that you guys could be understood.
 
Electorate is an old, internationally used word for "the body of voters".
 
Yes, actually I knew that. I retract my last remark.
 
It may have acquired secondary senses in Oceania, and those may in fact be used more often, but the primary sense must be used too.
Ah OK.
Then I retract mine.
 
5:53 PM
Let's retract the entire chat room!
 
And I retract myself from this chat, as I am getting busy at work. bye!
 
Nooo...
Bai!
So anyway, I think Meysam's precincts are simply police precincts.
 
Umm, yes I guess they could be. That was my first answer after all!
 
They must be somehow relevant to voter registration.
Yes.
Perhaps people have to register at a police station.
 
Are we perhaps voting for "police commissioner" or something like that?
 
5:54 PM
Or voting locales are organised by the police. Or something.
 
@Cerberus Ooh, that would be like Bosnia.
 
@DavidWallace I like your idea
 
@DavidWallace No, I don't think so.
 
at least I like the fantasy behind it
 
@Meysam Do you find it awkward not being an integer number of hours off UTC?
 
5:55 PM
In Holland, we have "kieskringen", "vote-circles", which means basically the area in whose voting locales you are allowed to vote. They are organised according to some system whose workings elude me.
 
@DavidWallace I find it
 
OK, so that's the same as our electorates.
 
Are you sure?
Because constituencies are very different.
 
OK, how many of these kieskringen make up The Netherlands?
 
Not too many.
 
5:57 PM
OK, I think we have 65.
 
And all votes are added up in the end anyway: it doesn't matter in which kieskring you happen to vote.
In fact, in recent years, I believe you are allowed to vote in any kieskring you like.
 
Of our 120 members of parliament, 65 represent one electorate each, and 55 represent nobody in particular.
 
See, that is completely different.
 
Those are districts/constituencies, as the OED said.
 
5:58 PM
@DavidWallace So, it simply means different places where people can vote, right?
 
Kind of.
We have special "Maori electorates" too.
 
A district/constituency/electorate has its own candidate: it is politically relevant. Where you are allowed to vote may have political consequences.
This is not the case with kieskringen: they are purely administrative.
 
So New Zealand is divided into 58 "general electorates"; and it's separately divided into 7 "Māori electorates". Both divisions are geographical. If you are Māori, you can either vote in your general electorate or in your Māori electorate, but not both. If you are not Māori, you can only vote in your general electorate.
 
So the entire country is divided into 7 Māori electorates?
 
@Meysam It might just mean "polling booth".
 
6:00 PM
I just think elections in America must be organised by (police) precinct. I don't think there's more to it.
 
@Cerberus That is correct.
 
OK.
So...each Māori electorate gets its own MP?
 
That means a Māori MP may be backed by more or fewer votes than a regular MP, right?
 
6:02 PM
If only 7 people decide to vote in the Māori electorates...
 
what are these ballot statuses? "perm", "poll", "abt"
 
I would guess permanent and poll, but no idea what that means.
Abt would probably mean about, but I don't see it.
 
Māori Party co-leader Pita Sharples has proposed the creation of an additional electorate, for Māori living in Australia, where there are between 115,000 and 125,000 Māori, the majority living in Queensland.
 
Aaaaah! I hate the example this guy has chosen to demonstrate pivot tables
 
Are they Zealandish citizens?
 
6:04 PM
Can you forget what the data means, and just learn how to do the "pivot table" thing?
@Cerberus They would have to be, if they're going to vote in our elections.
 
Yeah, it sounds confusing!
@DavidWallace Right.
So they vote in general electorates now?
 
@DavidWallace No way! I should learn how to use them in real world by means of a real example! Imaginary columns are of no use
 
@Cerberus They could if they wanted to, yes. I suspect that many of them don't bother.
@Meysam Not if the details of the real example get in the way of what you're trying to learn.
 
OK.
 
@DavidWallace I should find another tutorial
 
6:06 PM
@Meysam Maybe.
@Cerberus Actually, I don't know what the rules are, for which electorates non-resident New Zealanders are allowed to vote in.
It's probably the electorate that they last lived in before moving overseas.
So a non-resident Māori would still have the choice of a general electorate or a Māori electorate. I think.
 
Hmm.
That would be harder to verify.
 
@Cerberus You mean, where they used to live?
 
Yes.
 
I guess they'd still be on an electoral roll in their past electorate.
 
They might not be.
And the districts might be redefined.
 
6:12 PM
They have to have been in New Zealand in the last three years.
The districts only get redefined per election.
So, for example, the current map of electorates will apply to the 2014 election.
 
@DavidWallace What?
If you have lived in Australia for more than 3 years, you are not allowed to vote??
 
You have to have visited New Zealand in the last 3 years.
 
Hmm OK.
 
So are your votes aggregated per krieskring or something?
 
All votes for the entire lower house are added up across the country.
Kieskringen are just like ehm...
They are merely administrative, organisational.
If you restructure them, nothing of consequence changes.
 
6:25 PM
Can anybody download the excel file from here? office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/…
 
It is like, you can only get a new passport in your own city. Passports are exactly the same in other cities, but somebody has to distribute them.
And now kieskringen are even more meaningless than in the past, because you can now vote in any kieskring.
 
It was really hard if not impossible for me to download the file.
 
I don't have Excel 2007.
 
it's really hard if possible at all
 
Stupid.
 
6:28 PM
it's making me going nuts if not killing me
 
injects morphine
 
Time for a different tutorial then.
 
That is the most moron file ever!
 
6:43 PM
Hello
 
@thavan Hi!
 
Hello how can I help you today?
 
6:58 PM
You are in too much anger. But u acting like u r so polite. Is there a word in English to express this feeling to the person standing before u?
 
You could say you were cold with rage?
It should be something about cold rage.
 
Are you trying to express the anger or the politeness?
 
I think he is trying to explain the feeling, not express it towards the object of his rage.
 
@thavan You mean, to explain how you are keeping your anger in check?
Or to explain how angry you are?
 
Let me check the meaning for cold rage.
In local slang we say "kadupu". Just wanted to know if we have word in English.
 
7:06 PM
@Cerberus I thought he was asking for a word for "maintaining calm civility in the face of anger".
 
@DavidWallace Yeah, well, we don't have a single word to express most things...
 
Yeah. To say I'm being polite because of you.
 
As our three-headed friend so eloquently pointed out, you're unlikely to find a single word that means that.
 
Okay
 
"civil" is good for "polite but not particularly nice".
 
7:21 PM
Hello @David. Is it true that in NZ there are some great camion with F vagon.
6 vagon
 
@Carlo_R. I've never seen one.
 
:) I have seen them in a programme on television.
But probably it was Australia.
 
I imagine it would be difficult to steer such a truck.
 
7:30 PM
Road train!
 
the longest road train was over 1km long! that's astounding.
 
That would be illegal here.
 
That is definitely not New Zealand. The soil looks like it could be Australia or south east Asia.
 
I think.
 
it only travelled 8km
 
7:31 PM
I think only two-tandems are legal hereabouts.
 
that seems ridiculously inefficient
 
You couldn't drive it around the city. They must put it together at one end of Australia, and dismantle it at the other end.
There are long straight roads that go across the middle of Australia, without a single bend.
On the other hand, this truck is driving on the right. So not Australia. I wonder where it could be?
 
Oh, yes. You are right. The truck is driving on the right!
 
It looks stationary.
 
Maybe that roads are only for this trucks.
 
7:35 PM
Also, the picture says it is in Australia.
 
Yes, I've just noticed that.
 
Unless you named it that @Carlo?
 
:) kit
 
Oh. That whole entry is about Australian road-trains.
 
Yes, I was just looking at that site.
Maybe the driver fell asleep and it drifted into the wrong lane!
 
7:40 PM
The reason for this truck could be that there are no rail-roads.
Rail
@David May I ask you what are your competence.
You told me that you are seaching for a job
What type of job are you searching for?
 
@Carlo_R. I am a software designer and programmer.
 
@DavidWallace You have absolutely no such soil in NZ?
How can you be sure?
 
Umm, I've never seen soil that colour here. But there's lots in Australia.
 
It is uncommon here as well, but it exists.
 
Of course, it's possible that there is some in an area of New Zealand that I've never been to. But it's incredibly unlikely.
 
7:45 PM
Really?
It could be only a square km.
Looks like iron-rich soil.
If that is a word.
 
A square kilometre that requires multi-wagon trucks to carry fuel across?
 
Sand that contains iron.
 
You can say iron-rich soil, yes.
 
@cerb in that photo there are some special geological mass
 
I believe we also have "ironsand".
 
7:46 PM
@DavidWallace It could be just a small patch. Just 1 km of the route.
@DavidWallace Ah, there you go.
 
@Cerberus I am certain that is not New Zealand.
 
@Carlo_R. The funny rocks, yes.
@DavidWallace All right, then.
A bold claim.
 
And not just because the web site that the photo comes from calls it an "Australian road train".
 
Haha you cheater!
 
There are no hills in the photo at all, and no water. This means that if it's New Zealand, it must be central Waikato or Canterbury. But I've driven on all the major roads in those two areas. There's nothing like this.
 
7:48 PM
There could be a small 1x1 km valley.
Or plateau.
 
It's not a valley.
Look at the horizon. Completely flat.
 
I think your conclusions are very, very sweeping.
 
The article is about driving road trains across Australia, so it's a fair bet.
 
Plateau, then.
Hello.
 
Hello :)
 
7:50 PM
@Cerb quit being such a gadfly.
 
New Zealand was created by two tectonic plates crashing together. There is certain geology that exists here, and certain geology that doesn't.
 
Do you have mountains in The Netherlands?
 
No, but we do have steep hills.
 
How do you know?
That's a pretty broad claim you are making there.
 
7:51 PM
@DavidWallace It's just that that picture is not all that distinctive.
 
There could be a mountain hiding somewhere that you don't know about!
 
@KitFox We do not have mountains by definition, because there is a certain minimum height for mountains, and the atlas says we have 300 m tops.
 
it's all downhill in Netherlands! none of it goes up hill
 
So we definitely don't have mountains.
 
You have to come to the Antipodes when you want to go uphill.
 
7:52 PM
@Cerberus Well, it is still a pretty sweeping conclusion. ;-)
 
If you showed me a picture of something that was obviously a mountainside with no vegetation and such, then that would be distinctive enough. A steep hill, however, would greatly reduce its chances of being in my country, but it would still not be impossible.
@KitFox It is, and rightly so.
 
@KitFox They don't call them Netherlands for nothing!
 
That picture of the truck also looks very un-Dutch, so I would think it was probably not here; but then I couldn't be sure.
 
I can say definitely that it is not my state.
 
We have ironsands on both west coasts; but if that were where this photo were taken, it would either show mountains or show water.
You cannot really get away from mountains in New Zealand.
 
7:55 PM
Now I would like to show you two pictures of regions that are or are not in your country/state and have you guess.
 
Knock yourself out.
 
Too lazy.
And I need to make a phone call.
 
Which SE would I have the most luck asking a question about Greek mythology?
 
Mythology.stackexchange.com
OK. Well. I think that's in Area51.
 
@Zairja Wait for Cerberus to get off the phone, then ask him!
 
7:58 PM
Yeah, I've seen some on SF&F, but I'm not sure if there's a better fit.
 

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