English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I was out walking last night at this shopping centre. The shops are closed but the building is open, and there is nice aircon and music so it is quite romantic.

Cerberus

Haha romantic!

Zhao Rocky

Yeah, Im Chinese

Cerberus

Cool.

So what is the fist language most Singaporeans learn, Jasper?

user19161

It's complicated as we are an immigrant society (our forefathers came from China, India, etc) and was a British colony. Most Singaporeans speak English plus either Chinese, Malay or Tamil.

user19161

The way I see it: we should be considered native English speakers, though I know many here will disagree. But that's probably because they don't really know the history and culture of this place.

Cerberus

4:12 PM

So in what language did your mother speak to you when you were little?

Grace Note

I don't really have any opposition to the concept that you could be native English speaking in Singapore.

user19161

I would say both Eng and Chinese @ cerberus.

Cerberus

The word "native" is immaterial: it is just a matter of definition.

@JasperLoy Okay, and in what language did you speak back? Both?

Did you have a preference?

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote I think when Jasper said "here" he meant Singapore.

I could be wrng

user19161

@Cerberus Ya both. In everyday life, many people here speak a mixture of both. But more of Chinese at home and Eng outside.

Grace Note

4:14 PM

@MattEllen I don't know about at Singapore, but he has been called a pineapple

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote ah

user19161

Exactly, but like we said there is no clear definition of native speaker.

user19161

But if I were not a native speaker of Eng, then I wouldn't be one of anything.

Cerberus

Not Chinese?

user19161

@GraceNote I see you have been alert.

user19161

4:16 PM

@Cerberus Well, in my case, I really suck at Chinese.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Paying attention is in my nature

user19161

@GraceNote So is mine. That's why we have two ears and one tongue - to listen more than we speak. :)

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Technically, being a native speaker rarely imparts any actual skill with the language. I know a lot of native English speakers in the US who are far worse than you

Cerberus

True.

Grace Note

So you should still consider yourself a native Chinese speaker even if you can't consider yourself fluent

Just like I am a native English speaker but am not fluent in English.

user19161

4:18 PM

@GraceNote That is not very true.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I think your case defies the usefulness of the native–non-native dichotomy.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy I haven't seen it proved otherwise.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Then you have been pretending exceptionally well.

user19161

@Cerberus Exactly. I even posted this question. english.stackexchange.com/questions/14582/…

Grace Note

@Cerberus Oh, I speak English well. I just also spend just an equivalent time scouring letters together.

So I don't speak American English as much as I truly abuse it.

Cerberus

4:20 PM

@GraceNote Doesn't anyone who speaks any language at all?

user19161

@GraceNote Of course, I remembered correcting two spellings of yours so far.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote you can't abuse English more than America already has ;-)

user19161

@GraceNote Proven. The past participle should be used here.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Cockypop!

user19161

@MattEllen Indeed Brit!

Matt Ellen

4:21 PM

@Cerberus cocky pup

user19161

@MattEllen Cocky chicken.

Grace Note

I usually get a whole lot of support for my destruction of the English language. Don't usually get opposition.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy of course, I only mean it in jest

Cerberus

@MattEllen woof

user19161

@Cerberus Cluck cluck!

Cerberus

4:23 PM

@JasperLoy Is that what you are?

user19161

@Cerberus Yes, Chicken Little. Don't you know the cartoon?

Cerberus

Hmm no?

user19161

Chicken Little (2005 film)

Chicken Little is a 2005 computer-animated science fiction family comedy film loosely based on the fable The Sky Is Falling. It was the 46th animated feature produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation. The film was animated in-house at Walt Disney Feature Animation's main headquarters in Burbank, California, and released by Walt Disney Pictures on November 4, 2005 in Disney Digital 3-D format along with the standard 2-D version. It was written by Mark Dindal and Mark Kennedy with the screenplay by Steve Bencich, Ron J. Friedman, and Ron Anderson, and was directed by Mark Dindal. This was...

Cerberus

Ah OK.

user19161

I watched the movie when it came out. Chicken Little saved the world.

Matt Ellen

4:27 PM

@GraceNote people are in favour of you destroying the English Language? The blaggards!

Grace Note

@MattEllen They more support the notion that Ima ruin the language.

Cerberus

> Blaggards are a four-piece Celtic rock band from Houston, Texas.

Grace Note

They kinda dislike that I do it, naturally

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote Oh, well, yes, I fully support your speaking of English. Do it more!

user19161

@bogdan I did a google image search for "Bogdan" to see if it is a male or female name. It came up with lots of handsome and muscular men, I was quite shocked!

Bogdan Lataianu

4:32 PM

I am not muscular, handsome is in the eye of beholder

Grace Note

That is a very curious trait that you latch onto discovering, I'm noting

Bogdan Lataianu

My last flag was disputed, does that mean invalid?

Grace Note

@BogdanLataianu No

Bogdan Lataianu

so what does it mean "disputed"?

user19161

@GraceNote Well, I was just shocked because I didn't expect it to return such results. I expected more ordinary folks you see.

Grace Note

4:33 PM

It means that someone with 10k flagged it after you did, stating that your flag reason is invalid. As a result, regardless of how the point is resolved, the flags are marked "disputed", which means no flag weight change

This can only happen with the cookie-cutter flag reasons (very low quality, not-an-answer, and the close reasons). The other flags are private so they cannot be disputed.

Bogdan Lataianu

@Jasper Google images distorts the reality. Search for a disease, you will get the most gruesome, extreme images

@Grace i don't fully understand. I flagged this offtopic english.stackexchange.com/questions/36132/… A similar question was closed yesterday english.stackexchange.com/questions/35995/…

Grace Note

@BogdanLataianu It means someone disagrees with you. Not a moderator necessarily, just someone who didn't agree.

Bogdan Lataianu

So I dont see why the first was ok while the second was not ok. They have the same format

user19161

@BogdanLataianu Right. And I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When it comes to women, my friends and I have quite different preferences, so I am never attracted to their girlfriends, and they are never attracted to those I admire either. Which is good for everyone!

Grace Note

People don't have the same perspective, and with a plain 'off-topic' flag, there's no context.

Someone reviewing the flag won't necessarily see the other closed question, so they won't know that it matches so closely.

user19161

4:42 PM

@GraceNote Indeed. After all you are Note.

Grace Note

Heard that one before...

Cerberus

@BogdanLataianu Yeah if the flag was handled by different people, it may get different reactions. I have voted to close that disputed one.

Bogdan Lataianu

Thanks for replies.

Grace Note

You're welcome ♪

Cerberus

Who wants to bet that Marie Hendrix is Belgian?

She might be Dutch too,

I have a friend Marja Hendrix.

user19161

4:50 PM

Hmm, I know nothing about these European names...

user19161

I only know that Cerberus is a Dutch name.

Grace Note

Last I checked it was Greek

user19161

@GraceNote I was waiting for that!

user19161

And I note that 'last I checked' is one of your pet phrases.

Grace Note

It's a pretty common one

Though I was unaware that I used it that often, as it were

user19161

4:56 PM

People have been entering and leaving this room together very often. Spooky!

Grace Note

It's a periodic thing, idlers are gotten out at set intervals

user19161

Hello @kit. I see that you are in the 7k league now.

Grace Note

'lo, @Kit

Kit

Afternoon, friends.

Yes, I just turned over 7K. How exciting!

Not really, though.

Cerberus

Soon you will be in my league, better watch out...

Kit

5:03 PM

The baby is not sleeping, so I am in my bedroom steadfastly ignoring him while he kicks the wall.

Cerberus

Very nice.

How's the temperature?

Or weren't you in the heatwave too?

Kit

That broke a few days ago, thankfully.

It's quite temperate. Unfortunately damp, though.

Matt Ellen

@Kit congrats

Kit

My other son is at a friend's house for the afternoon, so I deceived myself into thinking I might get a nap.

Matt Ellen

@Kit does your wall somehow adjoin my flat? because that would explain the noise

Kit

5:05 PM

But of course, the baby sensed it, and decided not to sleep.

@MattEllen Maybe cosmically.

user19161

We are all connected cosmically, as Cerberus said.

Grace Note

"Lachrymal" has to do with tears, correct?

Kit

Yes.

lachrymose is a nice word.

lachrymal glands produce tears, I think.

Grace Note

Is "lachrymation" then a correct noun to refer to the act?

Kit

Hmm. Probably.

Cerberus

5:09 PM

Proto-Indo-European *dak̑ru- = "tear".

Grace Note

Well, whatever the word is, it's an inefficient process. Ow.

Cerberus

Greek dakruon.

Kit

Lacrimation, apparently

Cerberus

Latin lacrima.

Matt Ellen

@Cerberus the Greek god of being emo

Cerberus

5:10 PM

@GraceNote Is something troubling you?

@MattEllen Hehe, no, just "tear".

Grace Note

@Cerberus One of my eyelashes, I suspect.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Nothing deeper?

Grace Note

I have very long and gorgeous eyelashes, but like everything else on this body it gives curse as much as blessing.

Cerberus

I mean, I sympathize in any case...

OK.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Thankfully, no, I don't think there's anything like sand. Or mosquito, as has unfortunately happened in the past.

Killing a mosquito by blinking is something you never want to do. Trust me on this.

Matt Ellen

5:12 PM

I trust you on that

user19161

Cockroaches like me. They always fly across my ears.

Cerberus

@GraceNote I often have insects flying into my eye when I'm cycling around my parents' house, which is in the country.

Cockroaches, really?

I don't think I've ever seen one.

Grace Note

They're adorable

user19161

Cockroaches are very common here, and lizards too.

Cerberus

Or perhaps they scary stories everyone keeps telling make me ignore the rather unimpressive beetles that one sees every day.

I have seen lizards, especially in France and Italy.

Cute.

Grace Note

5:14 PM

We spotted at least 3 roaches in my old office yesterday.

Cerberus

Hmm...

Let me Google them.

Grace Note

One unsettled everyone else in my meeting.

user19161

No beetles here.

Grace Note

As it were, I know they are capable of flight, but I've never actually seen a flying roach yet. Only scampering ones.

Robusto

@GraceNote — Where do you work that you have cockroaches? I've never seen a cockroach in an office. Ever.

Cerberus

5:16 PM

@GraceNote Were they Madagaskar Hissing Cockroaches?

Grace Note

@Robusto Office building - no real explanation for the cockroaches anymore than I could explain the occasional bumblebee flying around, or the tons of wasps we find in the lights

@Cerberus I don't live in Madagascar

user19161

@Cerberus That is scary!

Cerberus

Oh.

Grace Note

I don't think you'll encounter those in the US except owned as a pet by someone or at an exhibit

Cerberus

It is, innit.

Robusto

5:17 PM

@GraceNote — I mean, are you in a city?

Grace Note

@Robusto Springfield office

Deep in it on Main Street, even.

Cerberus

What scares me about America is that you have many more dangerous insects, or so we are told.

Recluse Spiders, Killer Bees...

The worst we have are ticks.

Robusto

@GraceNote — Is it a slummy area? Or does it have a crappy restaurant in the building?

Grace Note

@Cerberus We don't have anopheles or Japanese Giant Armored Death Hornet Monsters

Mana

Killer bass.

Grace Note

5:18 PM

@Robusto Neither

But after the tornado, honestly, a whole lot has changed, so things which were once buried have been unearthed.

Cerberus

@GraceNote Hehe. Such a shame.

I see mice everywhere in restaurants and such.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Not really. I kinda like not being under the threat of malaria.

Or worrying that giant hornets whose carapace is tough enough to qualify as armor can be found in the woods.

Kit

Well, my strategy hasn't worked, so I'm going to go grocery shopping with an exceptionally tired baby. The presence of frozen items in a hot car should make him fall asleep instantly on the way home.

Cerberus

Bodega Keizer, the well known bar where everyone goes to have a drink before going to the Concertgebouw, often has mice.

Kit

Tschüß!

Grace Note

5:21 PM

Never seen a mouse outside of the grassy areas

Cerberus

@GraceNote Do you have hornets at all? We do.

Grace Note

Later, @Kit, and good luck!

Cerberus

@Kit Good luck!

user19161

Some mosquitoes are very powerful. They can pierce through thick clothing.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Yes. Both my brother and father have been swarmed by them in the past.

Cerberus

5:21 PM

I've also seen many mice at university.

Grace Note

Not in the city, though. Again, only in grassy areas.

Matt Ellen

@kit cya!

Cerberus

@GraceNote Swarmed, really? I thought they were solitary! Scary.

Matt Ellen

hope plan b is more successful

Grace Note

@Cerberus Wasps are solitary. Hornets... not so much.

At least, some species.

Cerberus

5:22 PM

It must be the species then.

Grace Note

Japanese Giant Hornets, for example, I think, don't really live in large groups. They don't need to.

Cerberus

Wasps aren't solitary? They sleep in nests together!

Grace Note

@Cerberus I always was pegging them as mostly solitary. They definitely don't swarm.

Cerberus

We see the occasional lone hornet at my parents or elsewhere in the country. I have never seen more than one at a time.

@GraceNote Right, that is true.

Grace Note

They always have those small nests. Maybe 2 at a time, but I doubt you'd see a full hive nest like with most apoidea or hornets these parts.

Cerberus

5:23 PM

I don't know the biological definition of "solitary".

Wasps have small nests?

Grace Note

Small enough to barely fit one, as far as I can tell.

Cerberus

One wasp, really?

Astounding.

Grace Note

The ones here do, I guess

Apparently Netherlands has deadly double wasps.

Cerberus

There's always hundreds or thousands in a decent nest here.

user19161

Once a bee flew into my mouth while I was singing. The wing got stuck between my teeth.

Cerberus

5:25 PM

You need to call a special service or something to remove a wasp nest, unless you are a bit reckless and my father.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Hum. Curious. I don't know of any wasp species that have large hive nests.

@JasperLoy That sounds like it could've gone quite messy

Cerberus

Matt Ellen

Cerberus

user19161

@GraceNote It probably flew away with one wing less or sth like that. But it tasted sweet.

Grace Note

5:27 PM

Well, the photo calls itself a wasp nest, so I guess there are colony-based wasps. The ones I see are always solitary

Cerberus

These are all familiar sights here, though the big one is a bit on the big side.

Matt Ellen

yeah :) i think it's from an advert for pest control

Cerberus

@GraceNote I didn't think you were denying that—I was just showing what kinds of wasps are common here, alas.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Oh, I know. It's just that there are so many classifications of stinging insects that I like to know I've myself got the species right

Cerberus

@MattEllen Heh, yeah probably.

user19161

5:28 PM

Now I am reminded of all the scary insect movies. They are funny because they don't look real.

Cerberus

There's also the fly that pretends it is a wasp. So cute.

user19161

Cute, like you!

Vitaly

Aren't hornets just a genus of the family Vespidae, and thus wasps?

Mana

Speaking of cute, me.

Cerberus

@Vitaly I don't know whether vespa = wasp in all cases, biologically.

Vitaly

5:30 PM

I believe hornets are wasps too, even though not true wasps (Vespula)

user19161

@Mana Yes you too.

Cerberus

We all!

Grace Note

@Vitaly You would probably know better than I do

Cerberus

So would there be poisonous spiders in the country around New York?

Don't ever Google "recluse spider bite" for images if your life is dear to you at all.

Robusto

Certainly not in this case.

Grace Note

5:32 PM

@Cerberus Probably not

Cerberus

@Robusto Those do swarm the streets of Amsterdam. Annoying little bug(ger)s.

@GraceNote Oh, thank God.

Robusto

@Cerberus — They will chase you down, too.

Cerberus

I might be visiting New York this year.

user19161

@Cerberus There are none here, only noisy sports cars from showoffs.

Cerberus

@Robusto Fortunately, we bumblebee bikers can swarm them off the road very well. We aren't scared of them.

@JasperLoy Good!

user19161

5:35 PM

Speaking of which, I still can't ride a bike.

user19161

I fell into a drain once while pushing a bike. That's how bad my psychomotor skills are.

ChaosGamer

you ghuys talking about motorcycles?

Cerberus

Aww.

All sorts of cycles. Hi!

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Hah, I forgot how to ride a bike! Go me!

ChaosGamer

hey. i like japanese motorcycles. Suzuki and Kawasaki, ect.

Grace Note

5:36 PM

I prove old proverbs wrong!

Robusto

Hey, everybody rejoice. I've just declared that punctuation can be verbs and nouns! (Still working on adjectives and adverbs, will advise. Also pronouns.)

Cerberus

I thought everyone in Asia was used to bicycles?

Grace Note

@Cerberus I enjoy motorcycles, but bicycles weren't generally my thing

Cerberus

@Robusto I see you got your terminology mixed up again...

Robusto

@Cerberus — You misspelled "illicit drugs" ...

Cerberus

5:38 PM

@GraceNote You're American, aren't you?

Grace Note

@Cerberus I live and was raised in America

Cerberus

@Robusto Right, one mixture brings about the other...

@GraceNote That would seem to qualify!

ChaosGamer

I waas riased in Korea but now I live in USA.

Cerberus

Unless there are some new patriotic requisites that I missed.

user19161

But the irritating thing is that the cyclists here often use the pedestrian path.

ChaosGamer

5:41 PM

why doesnt us make more bycycle road?

US

user19161

Not good for frequent walkers like me.

user19161

@ChaosGamer bicycle

Vitaly

OK, why has everyone stopped talking about arthropods?

That's not good.

user19161

@Vitaly anthropods

Vitaly

Did you know that only 10 per cent of species commonly known as bees are social?

Cerberus

5:42 PM

@Vitaly Outrageous!

But what counts as social?

Robusto

@Vitaly — Just like computer geeks in that respect.

Vitaly

(By which I mean eusocial.)

user19161

@Vitaly We should get the rest to join Facebook!

Vitaly

Eusociality

Eusociality (Greek eu: "good/real" + "social") is a term used for the highest level of social organization in a hierarchical classification. The lower levels of social organization, presociality, were classified using different terms, including presocial, subsocial, semisocial, parasocial and quasisocial. Examples The most familiar examples are social insects such as ants, bees, and wasps (order Hymenoptera), as well as termites (order Isoptera), all with reproductive queens and more or less sterile workers and/or soldiers. The only mammalian examples are the naked mole rat and the D...

Kit

So saying that I was going to take the baby somewhere and do something useful was apparently the key to getting him to fall asleep.

Robusto

5:43 PM

@JasperLoy — Sorry, I'm into Social Notworking. Really.

ChaosGamer

Jasper: bees dont have fingers, I'm afread.

XD

user19161

@ChaosGamer afraid :)

Cerberus

@Vitaly But what percent of individuals?

trg787

When a scottish journalist asked Kurouykhin : what your plans for the future? Kuryuokhin said silently smilng: to die

Matt Ellen

@Robusto really? as high as 10%!

ChaosGamer

5:45 PM

I hate the fact that I always get the spelling wrong in chat rooms... English is not my natuve language.

Vitaly

@Cerberus — No clue!

trg787

Kurouckhin made 3 alboms with PINK FLOYD

Robusto

@MattEllen — You would be amazed. But most of that number involves correcting people who are wrong on teh Internetz.

user19161

@ChaosGamer native, but that was probably a typo. :)

Matt Ellen

@Robusto Ah, good, so I count as a social computer geek :D

Robusto

5:46 PM

@MattEllen — Your membership card should be in your email in 6-8 weeks.

ChaosGamer

I really must slow down.

Matt Ellen

@Kit good news!

user19161

@ChaosGamer Yes, more haste makes less speed.

ChaosGamer

I type too quickly.

Matt Ellen

@Robusto you'll be hearing from me if not!

Cerberus

5:47 PM

@ChaosGamer If you use Firefox and download the extension "British English", and have your spell checker enabled, it will show red underlining for wrong spellings.

Oops.

Robusto

I gotta go. Those beers ain't gonna drink themselves. TTYL.

user19161

It is interesting that Facebook=FB=F*** B****.

Cerberus

@Vitaly Or body mass...

ChaosGamer

Robusto: what does the chinese letter in your pic mean?

Cerberus

@Robusto Happy drinking!

Matt Ellen

5:48 PM

@Robusto cya

user19161

@ChaosGamer It means dream.

ChaosGamer

Cerberus: I hate Opera, I dislike Firefox, IE is ok, but I love Chrome. :)

Kit

@JasperLoy There you go with your mysterious bowdlerizations again.

user19161

Robusto dreams in the day and at night, but I usually have nightmares.

user19161

@Kit You know this one, eh?

ChaosGamer

5:51 PM

I don't drink or smoke. When I do, I get sick. Ah well, gotta accept it as blessing. :)

Kit

@JasperLoy Nope.

user19161

@ChaosGamer I don't either. But I am starting to appreciate alcohol more these days.

Kit

Well, the f*** is easy enough.

ChaosGamer

Jasper: If you are not drinking, how are you appreciating alcohol?

user19161

@ChaosGamer I mean I usually don't drink, but recently I drink a bit more as I have been going to parties with some friends. But I would never smoke.

user19161

5:54 PM

@Kit I am surprised you don't know this one. I thought you were a naughty girl.

Kit

@JasperLoy I'm not naughty. Just liberated.

Matt Ellen

Free Barry. it's clearly a political statement. @Jasper: who is barry? why is he locked up?

user19161

Clue: B***Y

Kit

Besides, you had vaginas or something as a dirty word last time, which it isn't.

user19161

Give up?

Kit

5:56 PM

@JasperLoy Now I'm more confused. How about the three in the middle without the ones on the ends?

ChaosGamer

When I was seven, a relative of my grandpa offered me... what would you Americans would call Makgeolli. It tasted bitter. Idk why...

Kit

@ChaosGamer Makgeolli? I don't think there's anything that I would call by that name, since I've never heard it before today.

user19161

@Kit UDD

Kit

How is "buddy" a curse word?

ChaosGamer

Kit: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makgeolli I think naughty girls would enjoy it. :)

user19161

5:58 PM

@Kit Well, it isn't. Just to make the phrase appear mysterious!

Kit

@ChaosGamer Oh, it's like sake.

user19161

It's not a bowdlerisation. We are just playing Pat and Vanna here.

ChaosGamer

Yep. That was the prase I was looking for. Do you like sake?

Kit

@ChaosGamer Sometimes, when the mood strikes me.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…