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22:08
This answer is idiotic:
-3
A: 10 million questions or 10 million GOOD questions?

bjb568A basic query to filter out a lot of crap: is:q closed:no votes:2.. locked:no 2.4M results. Adding some negative keywords, the best query I could come up with is this: is:q closed:no votes:2.. -thanks -thx -please -pls -suggest -edit -u -urgent -"a doubt" -informations -spit -cuz -coz ...

@nhgrif it's a bjb answer, what did you expect?
Hmm, I've never seen him before.
So I had no expectations.
Frequently in the chat room.
0
Q: Bad filename in the address bar when require in a form action's file

Szabó TamásI have a form: <form method="post" action="do.php"> ... </form> In do.php I require an another php file: require_once "another.php"; The another.php is appears good, but in the address bar there is mysite.com/do.php I wold like to see mysite.com/another.php in the address bar. How can I r...

But, I wouldn't be surprised if there were only 2-5 million good questions on SO.
@CaptainObvious Wants closing.
22:12
@Vogel612 Unfortunately, he has a point.
No, he doesn't.
The asker has a point.
His answer isn't even remotely constructive.
His filter makes zero sense.
@nhgrif It's not an answer, but it still makes a point.
It's a protest.
SO has reached the 10M milestone. But a lot of it is crap.
The only point he's making is he has no idea what makes a helpful question.
That's his message.
That's the point the asker was making.
22:13
OK, nobody knows what makes a helpful question.
(Just kidding.)
Zak
Zak
I think Sturgeon's law probably applies here
But, it is very hard (read impossible, for now) to define cleanly enough to make a query.
The point of Lightness's question is that there's a lot of crap in the pile. bjb's answer doesn't add anything to that point. All his answer does is show he's clueless.
Yay, SO reached 10m questions because it's being flooded with crap every day! And everybody knows that quantity is the most important metric anyways, nobody cares that milions of those questions are low quality duplicates, typos, people too lazy to read the docs, and so on. So let's all celebrate by tweeting #SOreadytohelp. Because we're a help site! /Facepalm... — l4mpi Aug 20 at 17:52
@Mast calm down
22:15
I'm going to go take another quiz. TTYL.
I'm not trying to argue that there are 10mil excellent questions
Zak
Zak
10M Questions, so there's probably up to a couple Million Decent ones
oh, in that we're in total agreement
His filter is entirely meaningless and isn't even close to being a measure of what is or isn't a helpful question.
... what just happened in here?
what the...
22:16
So you've said. He's probably in the meta chatroom if you want to have it out with him.
@nhgrif - called another user an idiot is a bit rude.
May I suggest everyone to calm down?
3
there's fires burning???
And @nhgrif, think about what you're writing so that you don't write what you're thinking.
0
Q: C++: Using multimap to sort 'n' elements and change key for a specific element later

learnerI have a list of objects. This list is traversed using an iterator (pointer) and for every object that is retrieved I assign it a random "rank" such that, each rank-object forms a std::pair. I pass this pair to a multimap which stores and sorts the objects according to their respective ranks. So,...

22:34
0
Q: Is it even remotely constructive to talk at users?

nhgrifNo. It's not. So if you want to moderate a user effectively, you have to moderate in a means for which you can get feedback from the user you're communicating with. Commanding messages at a user who can't even talk is not effective.

oh sheeesh not again..
Zak
Zak
oh, did chat get moderated?
this looks like an auto-suspension for a validated chat-flag...
@Zak it can get. seldom explicitly is
Zak
Zak
how does that work?
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 5 minutes.
@Zak mostly flags, moderator flags and room ownership
the users with italic usernames have special privileges.
including moving messages to other rooms and kick-muting users
also any user that can chat has the ability to flag inappropriate / offensive / rude messages
22:43
how much of this conversation got Moderator/flag deleted?
@Malachi let me check, but I fare.. nothing
Zak
Zak
I didn't notice anything, so probably very little
maybe I didn't read back far enough
most probably by a validated flag
you should be able to see it @Malachi
right, back to how chat moderation works: If enough users that can moderate chat flags validate a flag, the offensive message gets removed
I haven't figured out yet how exactly auto-suspensions work, but a user that gets their message deleted seems to be auto-suspended for 30 minutes
interesting how I get shown my own message
22:46
It looks like it's purged entirely, I don't see the (removed) what's usually indicating a deletion.
@Mast - Yes, a moderator removed it.
@Richard I didn't call anyone an idiot.
@nhgrif - No, you said his answer was a work of idiocy.
Which is pretty darn rude and certainly a be nice fail
You said I called someone an idiot.
453
Q: The NEW new "Be Nice" Policy ("Code of Conduct") — Updated with your feedback

JaydlesUpdate: Thanks for all the additional feedback below. We incorporated a lot of your suggestions, and this is going live (as http://meta.stackexchange.com/help/be-nice). We're also looking at ways to get this in front of more new users when they sign up, to help them start off on the right foot...

22:47
isn't that splitting hairs?
Is calling someone a troll rude?
@nhgrif - My apologies. I should have said "Don't call people's answers idiotic".
I didn't see any punishment dished out for that chat message.
oh you did put the flags onto that?
The rules here are impossible to figure out, so @Vogel612, if you don't mind, can I have a conversation about them with a moderator?
22:49
@nhgrif I'm currently trying, too....
Because if I crossed a line by referring to a post as idiocy, but calling a troll doesn't cross a line, then I need help understanding what the rules are exactly.
since I was wondering about the same thing...
Because I didn't direct any comments at any people. But other posts, which apparently are a-okay, are directed at people.
And if someone called me a troll, I'd certainly consider that rude.
So please help me understand.
:23623219 - Pardon me, I was just reading up the transcript a little.
Fine.
#1 - I've deleted the comment about trolling.
#2 - The main aim of chat is to be nice and get along
Could you have done that before so swiftly punishing me?
Not saying I didn't deserve it
22:53
#3 - The unspoken part of the "be nice" rule is "or be elsewhere".
I'm just saying, it looks absurd to me, while I sit there for 30 minutes, I got punished and others didn't.
#4 - The reason you flagged those posts was to make a point. They'd already been up for some considerable time before you pressed the button.
You can't flag posts while you're suspended.
Otherwise, I would have.
True, you waited until your suspension ended.
But you didn't flag them when they were posted.
Because as soon as I figured out that my post crossed the line, all logic dictated that those posts also dictated they crossed the line.
22:56
0
Q: Spring Security Web Configurer Adapter

Eugene G. Ustimenkoguys. The code below is spring security web adapter. I do not like configure(HttpSecurity) method that generates security confirmation policy. Any ideas to do it more readable and clear? /** * Spring security configuration * * @author Eugene Ustimenko * @date Nov 5, 2014 */ @Configuration @Enabl...

@Richard for quick clarification.. was the "idiocy-message mod-flaged or "normal"-flagged?
Those posts were worse than mine. Those posts were directed at the individual.
@nhgrif - For the record, revenge-flagging is a moderatable offense that should have earned you a considerable ban.
I was flagging offensive messages.
I can see that you were unaware of this which is why I'm here to chat.
22:57
How can I revenge flag if I don't know who flagged me?
@nhgrif - You were flagging in order to make a point.
Zak
Zak
If I may interject for a moment
from a dispassionate viewpoint
I was flagging based on an increased awareness of where the point of acceptable/unacceptable was.
@Zak - A reasoned voice is always welcome.
Zak
Zak
22:58
nhgrit's posts didn't seem particularly worse than some of the other conversation around the subject
@nhgrif - Indeed, which is why you're not wondering why you've been kick-muted right now.
Zak
Zak
yet he did get flaged and moderated (don't know if automatic or not)
and (I think) is feeling unfairly treated
Again, if the message I posted was across the line (I wasn't aware when I posted my message), then the messages I flagged were across the line. I didn't think at the time that either was unacceptable. But again, once mine was deemed unacceptable, logic can only dictate that if comments directed at posts are unacceptable, then the same sort of comments directed at user's must certainly be deemed unacceptable.
@Zak - The post was flagged by a user. A moderator viewed it, validated it and nhgrif was given an automatic ban for a "be nice" fail
@Richard again ... flagged as mod-flag or 10k-flag?
22:59
@Zak If I am being unfairly treated it is by members of this chat who opted to flag my message and not other messages, not by the moderators who only judged the flagged message.
@Vogel612 - A Community moderator, not a 10K
Zak
Zak
I get that. I'm just suggesting that nhgrif is not trying to be vindictive here
I suggest that we either change the topic or just end the conversation right here. There really isn't any way to "win" this discussion.
I suggest that this conversation continue so that I might actually understand what's okay here
@nhgrif - The fact that you're not following is probably due to me not explaining clearly enough. My apologies.
23:00
Or at the very least, just understand that I actually have become a target in this chat.
@nhgrif not necessarily...
When your message was flagged, it was actioned by a moderator and you received a small chat ban.
On your return, you flagged several messages you felt were similarly offensive, not because they were offensive to you, but because you felt there was a double-standard at play.
No, I'm going to impose a cooling-off period for the whole room (without judgement for or against anyone) if this continues.
Is anyone heated?
@200_success - Chillax. I think we're making headway here.
@nhgrif - Your actions, taken out of context could be construed as a form of revenge-flagging.
23:03
Why would we do that? How is this chat not relevant to this room?
^ that
This is the room for site business...
No, why would this go there?
@Malachi you know that suggestion seems laughable when considering the room-description...
@Richard Right.... but should you or any other moderator be moderating out of context?
@nhgrif it's not about "should". it's about "can they not"?
23:04
It's not about site business, it's about one specific infraction. If you want to make this broader, meta would be a better place.
(IMHO)
One-specific-"infraction" is discussed here at length all the time.
@nhgrif - Yes. All the rooms share a common architecture for a reason, because there are common standards
A moderator on one site (my site, for example is SFF:SE) is a chat moderator in all rooms for a reason.
So... entirely out of context, my flags shouldn't have been considered revenge flagging. They were legitimate flags on messages that ultimately, you agreed did not hold up to that common standard.
It's only revenge flagging if you look at it with one, extraordinarily specific context
@nhgrif stop for a moment please...
@nhgrif - Indeed, which is why I've deleted one of them
23:06
That in which you see that I flagged them after a suspension and ignore what I actually flagged (just look at that I flagged anything as a result of suspension)
what exactly is this about, the "this could be considered revenge flagging" or the inital (auto-)suspension
It's about how the site is moderated. So I know. Because it never makes sense to me.
Zak
Zak
some discussion was had about a meta post
@nhgrif - Precisely. Returning to flag answers because you feel you've been treated badly is considered to be revenge-flagging. You're not offended by the posts, you're offended by what you feel are a lack of common standards.
Being suspending while others who posted equal or worse are not is extraordinarily irritating.
23:07
don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive
7
Zak
Zak
some comments were borderline not-nice but seemd fine i context
one of nhgrit's post got flagged and validated by a mod
so they got auto-suspended
@Richard ... so... are we supposed to flag comments which offend us personally? Or comments which don't meet the SE common standards?
both
@nhgrif - Both
the former may not be always validated, the latter should be
23:08
But doing so immediately after a ban comes off as very poor site etiquette.
But not wrong
then again context and tone of room allow for some leeway.
Because I can't flag in the midst of the suspension
@nhgrif - I think you're falling into the pinball error.
And the whole point of the suspension is to provide the user with an increased awareness of what the standard is
23:09
aside from the cooling down possibility
Just because you don't make the "tilt" alarm go off, doesn't mean that you're playing the game fairly.
8
In plain English
It's the job of moderators to bring a human viewpoint to the situation. Ultimately I was voted by my users to see what's happening and to assess what can be done to make the situation right
Because, as I said, I have extraordinary difficulty understanding how SE is actually moderated.
flags are subjective, not everything that should be flagged is and vice versa
23:10
Not getting banned doesn't imply current behaviour is up to par.
If you're expecting a rulebook that says "you can say this without being modded but you can't say that", such a thing doesn't exist.
3
There's leeway.
@Mast - Indeed, and scope for error and space for apologies.
At some point, are you going to tie this back to your pinball metaphor?
Are you suggesting I am playing "the game" unfairly?
everybody is, usually a little and usually now and then
23:12
Analyzing this from a rules or fairness perspective is pointless, because what's offensive is entirely subjective. For whatever reason, someone said something that someone else didn't like. Be a bit more cautious in the future. that's all.
@nhgrif - No, I'm suggesting that simply because what you said was borderline, doesn't mean that it doesn't bear inspection by human eyes.
and not always the "tilt" alarm goes off
...
Let's take a ten-minute break.
@200_success People don't like me. I'm flagged a lot. "Be a bit more cautious" isn't good advice.
Or rather, it doesn't effectively work for me.
I get flagged for the same sorts of messages that other don't.
23:14
@nhgrif - Generally speaking, if you operate on the "golden rule" principle, you'll always be ok.
I do.
Treat others as you would want to be treated.
Then maybe you should reflect a bit.
Would you, for example want your post to be described as idiotic?
If it was, absolutely.
23:14
This room was placed in timeout for 10 minutes; the topic of this room is "General discussion about Code Review codereview.stackexchange.com - Site Business always comes first" - conversation should be limited to that topic.
...
this kinda.... didn't work?
It's not actually on time out? And he left?
But I actually think this conversation is constructive...
Well this is awkward.
Maybe he'll be back in 10 minutes and we'll just tell him we didn't talk for 10 minutes.
23:16
@nhgrif - Shhh! He'll hear you!
@nhgrif I have to agree with the others though, it's getting more and more off-topic from 2nd.
@Vogel612 - You want to hear something funny?
I have no idea what the topic for this room is.
Something about code.
and now somebody say "context-aware moderation" :D
> Site Business always comes first
Site Business includes chat business.
10: Let A = 1
20: Print "Hello World"
30: A = A + 1
40: IF A = >10 THEN GOTO 20
50: Print "Ta-da!"
23:19
that doesn't look right
@Malachi - It should print "Hello World" ten times, then finish with "Ta-Da!"
line 40 should say IF A = < 10 THEN GOTO 20
10: MOV 9, A
20: //JMP TO Print
30: DEC A
40: JNZ A 20
50: // JMP TO Print
right?
should be slightly more effective
23:21
@Richard this is what Code Review is all about ^^
@SimonAndréForsberg - What's all that stuff vogel has posted?
Is that gonna print me out my hello worlds?
pseudo-assembly
theoretically, with some more code
I thought Richard was posting BASIC?
idk lol
@Malachi - I can only program in Sinclair BASIC
TRS-80, did that use Sinclair BASIC?
23:25
@Malachi - I had a ZX Spectrum.
I had one of these
Shhh!
Man, that timeout sure felt like forever.
Has it only been ten minutes?
Zak
Zak
just wanted to point out. The room WAS in lockdown, but because you guys have special access, you could keep talking anyway
@Malachi Looks better.
oh right...
23:25
I used to take code out of my Highschool Algebra book.. kind of neat
I forgot... I'm a room owner...
Zak
Zak
yeah
@Zak wait what?
@Vogel612 is a room owner too
Room owners don't get time out.
@Vogel612 Yup, you guys are all room owners or mod.
23:26
lol
Me and Zak were muted, the rest wasn't.
that's madness, and here I thought a RO didn't get special talking privileges
@Mast - We missed you. :-(
3
I couldn't speak either. Could only mods and room owners speak?
Zak
Zak
almost certainly
23:27
@SirPython yep, I think
2 mins ago, by Zak
just wanted to point out. The room WAS in lockdown, but because you guys have special access, you could keep talking anyway
Why isn't 200_success an owner?
I've just spotted Malachi's starred post. What coarse language was used?
Did you use the O word?
@SirPython mod
@SirPython He doesn't have to be. He's a moderator.
23:28
@Richard whoa, what?
Ironic this room gets more and more off-topic talking about what should and what shouldn't be on-topic.
@Richard I don't even know what that's a substitute for
I miss the days where everyone just laughed with my jokes and we all held hands and sang kumbaya
8
I figured he didn't have to be, but the other three mods are owners.
ᵒᵖᵉᶰ⁻ˢᵒᵘʳᶜᵉ
23:30
I use that word all the time. it's better that <sub>outsource</sub>
@JeroenVannevel nobody laughed with your jokes, sorry to pop your castle in the air
@SirPython There have been some changes recently which may or may not have made matters more opaque.
Outsource is the worst sin of them all.
@Vogel612 They get starred an awful lot though.
@Vogel612 - At you, not with you...
23:31
"some changes recently"...?
Nevermind the jobs going overseas, outsourced code is lower quality.
@Vogel612 yeah, you're not going to convince anyone of that
"recently", as in shortly before the election
@SirPython A long, long time ago.
Right. Is everyone calm?
23:31
@JeroenVannevel I liked my version better, though.
k͡u̴҉͠mb̸̢a̴yą̕̕
@Mast Could you be more specific?
u just jelly
@Mast In a galaxy far away
Is everyone as cool as the proverbial cucumber?
23:32
Was it that whole "off-topic chat" thing?
@SirPython What Vogel said, around election.
I'm going to be now. If I come back and find you all bickering, I shall be most displeased.
4
dredging this up won't be constructive.
@Richard ^^^
You guys are good at leaving puzzles.
23:33
I'll change the room name to "Outsourcing chat" as punishment.
@Richard Griefing.
@SirPython search the transcript for "list of this room's owners."
@Mast - What's the point of being a mod if you can't abuse it some times.
0 messages found
Gnight code dudes,
23:34
Oh, here's another reason not to abbreviate variable and method names... if English isn't your first language, your abbreviation will be far less then helpful.
damn chatsearch...
sec
@Richard Gnight scifi dude.
I've looked at some outsourced code which had accidentally "offensive" things in them because the abbreviators only knew English as a second language.
@nhgrif - If you think that's bad, I discovered there's a programming language called BrainFuck.
Try getting that one past the chat filters if you aren't a mod.
++++++++[>+>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++>+++++++++>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++++>+++++++++++++>++++++++++++++>+++++++++++++++>++++++++++++++++<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-]>>>>>>>>>>-.+<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>++.--<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>----.++++<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>+.-<<<<<<<<<<<.
23:36
@Phrancis - That's worse than my BASIC.
@SirPython google search was more helpful to find it
@Richard :)
@Richard actually it's a minuscle f...
@Richard Brainfuck.
The filters don't care.
Only the users do
23:38
@Richard just search this chatroom's transcript...
12
Q: How to speak Brainfuck: for beginners

MastThe following code transforms multi-line input into the the Brainfuck equivalent. One line turns into one program. The resulting programs are split by newlines for readability. Brainf.cpp #include "Brainf.hpp" int main() { std::vector<std::string> userInput; std::string currentLine = "...

The filters obviously don't care about that C++ chatroom at SO.
@SirPython We probably shouldn't use those as an example.
Hey, @Mast, I might argue that the tag there isn't appropriate. Your question isn't about that language. It's only tangentially related to the language.
@Richard You haven't seen?
41
Q: FizzBuzz in Brainfuck

Simon André ForsbergInspired a bit by a previous Brainfuck question and the recent fizzbuzz invasion, I decided to make FizzBuzz in Brainfuck. The code is entirely my own, except for the inclusion of the Printing a number algorithm that I found on StackOverflow. My code is divided into several parts. Setup Const...

@nhgrif I'd say it's quite related to the language.
23:40
I warn you... if this room doesn't calm down... I'll make another FizzBuzz
Linked-List would be worse ^^
@nhgrif Like how this question is only "tangentially related to" assembly.
@nhgrif I can understand why you'd think so, but since the output is code of that language, I think it applies.
2
Zak
Zak
Can I just say, this room seems pretty calm, if only people would stop asking if it's calm already
@Mast That's a really dangerous line of reasoning.
23:42
@Zak - EVERYONE CALM THE HELL DOWN!!!!!!!
2
@Zak I think that was more of a ... joke
Zak
Zak
ah, right
@Richard like RIGHT NOW, OKAY!??!??!
Zak
Zak
sorry, mildly autistic, sometimes things go over my head
@nhgrif I love living on the edge.
23:43
@SirPython Right. The question isn't about how to improve his assembly. It's about how to improve his C++.
So, now we get a 'fastest gun in the west' on who can get the most relevant MSE?
hmm.. I really could use some competition, yes
@Mast By this logic, a lot of our questions are missing an tag.
@nhgrif Under-water output != visible output
@nhgrif There are two things you should tag your question with: What language you wrote it in and what the code is about. Sometimes, code can be about a language - such as - in which case tagging it so is perfectly alright.
23:47
47
A: How do I correctly tag my questions?

Joel CoehoornEffective Tags - Bring more attention to your question Each tag should stand on its own: if a tag only makes sense when used in a group with other tags, something is wrong. For example, tagging a question as [visual] [studio] (two tags) is wrong. Pick tags that show higher counts in the look-a...

His question isn't about brainfuck. His question is about generating code
@nhgrif It's a generator.
Just like is used for generators.
I'm applying the same line of logic that we applied to decide that the NS-specific tags aren't okay.
because they're not about NSString, they're about s
is a problem to solve.
@nhgrif What would you prefer, ?
or there may even be an existing tag for this process of taking input and generating code from it.
Most of the -tagged questions aren't actually written in Brainfuck, and that's fine.
sorry I was just trying to catch up on chat and this is what I thought right away
U mad Bro?
(yes, @Vogel612, I also hate the chat search some times...)
So we can use tags however we want
as long as it's not me
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it belongs to codereview.stackexchange.comMarcinJuraszek 5 secs ago
23:51
@SimonAndréForsberg is it just me or are single quotes not well recieved?
because when I use a tag, people always get away with telling me I'm wrong about it.
@Vogel612 definitely not just you.
hmm.. let's prod balpha to write us a better chat
rumour has it that's the next thing after the whole graduation rebuild
@Duga Invalid close reason.
don't you dare quote me on that, though
especially not in single quotes ;)
3
23:53
@Vogel612 So it will take 6-8 years PLUS 6-8 weeks?
right... and I wanted to sleep before reload. that really went very well
@Mast I think you're underestimating. 6-8 years + 6 months to 8 years
if things go awry, the inbox follows you into chat, soon...
@MarcinJuraszek Stack Overflow has no such closure reason. What you mean is that there is no specific question. — 200_success 51 secs ago
I was going to take that time to reach 20k. But putting bounties on stuff turned out to be fun.
it seems counterproductive to give away rep when you try to reach 20 k
Zak
Zak
out of interest, what are the really significant reputation milestones?
23:57
@Mast Eh, who cares about rep?
@Zak There's a tab for that.
@Zak right now that depends on whether the site is graduated or not
TTCTBMAGTB
Time To Catch That Bloody Mosquito And Go To Bed

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