« first day (43 days earlier)      last day (2407 days later) » 

03:00
I know Trogdor personally IRL and ensured in-game and out that he knew exactly what he was getting into.
OK, that's different. And also different if the character change was to the player's benefit and not a punishment
@BraddSzonye Nothing in FAE is a punishment.
I'm kinda sensitive about such things – there are terrible GMs out there.
This argument is not advancing the story. I'll give you a FATE point to change the subject.
@BraddSzonye Understood. I try not to be those guys.
My approach to RPGs is "Cooperative improvisational storytelling."
03:01
So how about that uh
them dice
that got kickstarted
So FAE's emphasis on "interesting" over "realistic" or "retributive" is right up my alley.
Oh, those dice!
@Problematic Hey, I can see topics again.
03:02
@BraddSzonye Having talked extensively to BESW about DMing, I find he is generally pretty masterful at not being a bad being a good DM.
@BraddSzonye perfect, was just about to ask.
... not you.
I try pretty hard not to be a jerk GM too :)
he did purposefully kill us once, but it was that afore-mentioned game
I'm better at being a good GM than being a good player.
03:03
we knew ahead of time, and it was fun the whole way
Being a good player is hard!
4
@BraddSzonye I hate killing PCs for no reason, but I will happily facilitate a player's choice to bring his PC to their doom.
Man, last D&D campaign I tried to run, I racked up TWO TPKs within a couple sessions. And I really wasn't trying.
Control freak + attention whore = GM > PC
I've never felt the need to try killing PCs. Quite aside from it not being sporting, players are much better at it than I am.
@BraddSzonye I don't understand this formula
03:05
My attention to detail and desire to be the center of attention makes me a much better GM than player.
@BraddSzonye I talk too much to be a good player.
you do tend to take all the attention as a PC
I'm also a bit attention-deficit, which works out fine as a GM, because all of the various tasks keep my attention saturated. but as a player, my mind wanders and it's easy to get disruptive
But doesn't the control freak part make for bad GMing?
(The attention whore part works out wonderfully though)
Depends on your style and how much responsibility the players want to have over the world.
03:08
As a GM, I can channel it into rules mastery and setting/story detail
I tend to run a consensus-style game (although I don't think my players realize it) – I'm not protective of my creations. Just the mechanics.
Fate GMing requires a major stepback from d20 System GMing in that regard.
As a player, it turns into rules lawyering
My major problem going into Fate is that I'm usually sought out as a GM partly because of my intricate worldbuilding and NPC creation.
My particular flavor of control freak is mostly a hypersensitivity to injustice.
Stepping back to create room for player worldbuilding is hard for me.
03:10
any DMing I have done has basically all been railroaded
Interesting.
I would let my players do a lot more world-building, if they were more proactive.
I didn't really worldbuild on a grand scale
I do oyster-style world building
And a lot of improvisation.
I mostly just tried to allow for choices they all made
My usual style is to craft a broad but firm world vision, and specific major-player NPCs/groups with goals and plans.
03:12
I put them on their first quest, no deviation at all
then I winged it from there
I usually start out with a central conflict and a gimmick. Like the world where the Christ figure was a warrior instead of a pacifist, and the great church was rotting within.
Wherever the party goes, I fill in the details based on their current situation and past actions. Whatever the party does, the NPC agendas respond accordingly.
And then I put the PCs on the fringes of the conflict.
I don't usually try to make up plot arcs; instead I create interesting conflict and delicately balanced power structures, then let the PCs blunder through like lopsided bowling balls and watch the NPCs scramble to compensate.
Sometimes, players really surprise me, like the time I put them on the fringes of a collapsing Roman-style Empire, and instead of getting involved in the war, they decided to go on a grand tour of the world instead.
Which honestly was awesome for my history- and geography-buff inclinations.
03:16
This game is unusual because I have only slightly more concept of the world and its agendas than the players do. This is deliberate partly because it's more Fate-like, and partly because it encourages players to become GMs. I hope.
@BESW I did the opposite
I had a plot arc set up
the main Baddie was gonna look for you by the time you got strong enough to face off with him
heck, you had already messed with a mid level flunky of his
@trogdor Usually in my campaigns the Big Bad starts looking for the PCs after the second or third time they accidentally ruined his plans, often without even noticing.
"Who are these idiots? They can't be as stupid as they seem!"
yeah
that's pretty much what I had in mind
you remember, there were some assasins that didn't even kill one of you
at that point so far the attention you got was very low
the main guy didn't even know you existed yet, this mid level guy I had in mind knew about you, but didn't feel as threatened as he probably should have.
03:20
@BESW I'm interesting in GMing once I get a feel for the setting and characters.
you would have probably ended up killing the mid level guy by the time the Big Bad noticed anything
and I had a sub plot,.... but it TPKed
so I wasn't sure what to do with it
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I'm trying to link to the "The Tale of The Dwarven Cleric, or I Poke Him: 101 Stupid RP Tricks, Volume One," but Chrome says the archive is full of malware.
Thought a mod might want to know the archive is full of evil.
Would you like an eeeeevil link?
lol
no thanks
03:35
@Problematic How's the forum health?
@BESW everything should be functioning properly. If you notice anything amiss, ping me
Cool.
And thanks again for the forum.
My pleasure.
Hit from Instapaper o_O
Oooh.
We're officially interesting!
03:41
@BrianBallsun-Stanton the royal
@Problematic good? um
Top Traffic Sources (Last 30 Days) Clicks Topics Users
[...]
www.instapaper.com 1 0 0
The EF Discourse forum "we."
03:43
The private message tool would be much more useful if you could message groups in addition to single users
But that's not private!
> Three may keep a secret, if two of them are banned from Twitter.
I invoke the Spirit of Webster to disagree with you.
... hmm. He usually answers that call.
@Problematic I counter with bad Poor Richard misquotes.
Webster vanishes in a puff of fuzzy citation.
Ah well. I'm working with the 1913 edition anyway.
@BESW I claim that Mark Twain said that.
03:46
@Problematic Next time, try Fowler. He's got more moxie.
(If there's cussing, George Carlin said it.)
Otherwise it's the Bible or Shakespeare.
You can tell those apart because the bible only calls God “thou,” whereas Shakespeare calls everyone else “thou”
And on the eighth day, something was rotten in the state of Denmark
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for a dagger is before me, the handle to my hand.
....now I'm imagining Puck chortling as he turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt.
03:54
you are sick man
I was thinking, Polonius reciting Proverbs.
Mangling, you mean.
I always chuckle a little inside when people quote Polonius in earnest.
Heheh.
I suspect Shakespeare was talking about Polonius himself when he gave the old man the line,
> A happiness that often madness hits on, which reason and sanity could not so prosperously be deliver’d of.
The bard was a little too fond of his Wise Fools sometimes.
Misaimed Fandom (warning, tvtropes)
“warning, tvtropes” is like the Pandora's Box of geeks
04:05
@BraddSzonye Nooooo.... shloooop
@BraddSzonye "I spent the last few years building up an immunity to TV Tropes."
@BESW the "immunity" was carrying around iocaine powder in case he got sucked in.
lol
it didn't take me a few years
if someone else links me to it, I look at that part and nothing else
I only browse it if that was what I wanted to do from the start
Unpossible.
I also like to live dangerously.
04:09
heck, I didn't even read that whole link
pure reading willpower
I read because I read
I stop because I stop
1 min ago, by Problematic
Unpossible.
lol
reading rainbows?
tv tropes does not have the power, your curiosity has the power.
and you can ignore your curiosity if you really try
wikipedia : tvtropes :: scratching an itch : heroin
lol
I wouldn't know
I have now discovered "ludonarrative dissonance"
04:13
I don't drink, smoke, or do any kind of drug
@Problematic Interesting. I know of the concept but not the term. Where'd you run across it? (Dare I ask?)
I only use Wiki or tv tropes if I am actually looking for a specific thing
@BraddSzonye Following the rabbit hole from "misaimed fandom"
You got from there to Gameplay and Story Segregation already?
if I want to read something, I read an actual book
04:16
@BraddSzonye shloooop
I can deflect the TVTropes train by hopping rails to Kongregate
@Problematic ...I knew it would be about Bioshock.
Concept also applies well to a lot of RPGs.
(I have an essay I want to write some time about how Shadow of the Colossus succeeds where Bioshock fails.)
(But it keeps turning into a monograph.)
Actually, ludonarrative dissonance is one of the key reasons I finally left D&D entirely.
cluedonarrative dissonance: when you figure out that Col Mustard did it, but then Ms Peacock is in the envelope.
psuedonarrative dissonance: when you realize you're watching another M. Night Shayalaman film.
(See also: Episode I.)
04:29
Recently saw a nice article about how the best way to enjoy the entire Star Wars series is to watch it in the order IV – V – II – III – VI
Ah, yeah, I ran across that in sf.se.
Machete order.
Aye.
It seemed reasonable.
I personally dislike I the least of the prequels, but I agree with the dude that the series works better if you skip it in the main sequence, and watch it later as a stand-alone prequel
In terms of the films individually, it's a matter of what flaws a person is more willing to overlook or laugh at.
04:31
Yep.
But yes, as part of the overall narrative, TPM seems... irritatingly superfluous.
It's got great character moments for Palpatine and the Jedi.
It also has some really stupid ones. [wry]
But yeah, TPM has several good moments.
I just find it hard to overlook the atrocious storytelling. I'm a communicator, a storyteller, at heart.
The SW prequels are good candidates for the “good parts” treatment
That's pretty much the only way I watch The Matrix.
Menace's ability to tell its own story, much less be part of the larger narrative, is pretty inept, albeit often in fairly subtle ways.
04:37
@BraddSzonye What's the purpose of that...? (I like how it completely ignores I)
@JonathanHobbs It preserves the dramatic reveals, and keeps the tension while exposing the parallels.
@JonathanHobbs And builds tension leading up to Luke's reappearance as the black-clad, temperamental Jedi Master
The primary fault with the prequels as part of the overall narrative is that either Vader's fate is already known, or we don't know why we care about Anakin.
Machete order sort of gives you an in media res, “how we got here” approach to the overall story
04:39
Watching II and III immediately after getting the "I am your father!" reveal but before seeing how Luke handles it and whether Vader can be redeemed --it raises the stakes.
And also highlights how close Luke is to turning to the Dark Side.
The whiny kid who can't control his emotions.
You still get to be shocked at the father reveal, you're eager to see what Luke does next, but you're also very curious about Vader's story: cue flashback.
And ROTJ looks much better in comparison to II–III than it does to TESB ;)
And yes, the parallels to Anakin in II and II, with Luke in VI, are a lot more obvious and make Luke's flirt with the Dark Side more obvious... thus raising the stakes when the Emperor's gloating "strike me down!" in his chair.
@BraddSzonye This too. You lead with your strongest films, narratively and in terms of worldbuilding.
Dang that's good actually
04:43
You get to keep V's "Yoda is actually the green muppet" reveal too. [grin]
Episode I has very little that can't be sacrificed in the overall narrative: midichlorians, Jar-Jar, trade disputes...
Darth Maul is never mentioned again, and nearly everything that needs to be known is effectively re-introduced in II.
Oh, and it also helps to avoid Palpatine spoilers, for newbies
For folks like us, there's some good situational irony in knowing what Paplaptine's up to. But apparently Machete order makes it more of a wham thing
@BraddSzonye Also this. You get to see him turn into Sideous in situ before anyone mentions his name as Emperor, and then he shows up in VI all gloaty.
(And I spoils that, so skipping it actually improves the reveal.)
@BESW I think you're being generous about the contribution of Episode I to affairs in general
(in implying it has only very little)
@JonathanHobbs Machete Order suggests that SWEI:TPM be presented in a lump with the Clone Wars TV shows, the video games, and so forth, as optional supplementary material.
Oh, Machete's take on that is that almost everything arc-important in TPM gets repeated in II–III
And everything else gets solid closure
04:47
Alright :D
It also says that just watching II and III smooths over the weird age gap in the romance, and suggests that they were childhood friends instead. [grin]
^ Sort of like watching The Animatrix.
It actually makes the romance slightly less painful. Slightly.
It's too bad the acting is so terrible.
Or the script.
@BraddSzonye The dialogue could have used another edit or six.
04:49
Yep.
Or more input from the actors.
And, yanno, the giant frolicking digital capybaras...
I mean, they have great actors.
MacGregor, Portman, McDiarmid, Jackson are all fine actors.
I think the CGI killed a lot of the acting potential.
Or at least inexperience with it – newer action movies do a fine job of it.
As much as work is becoming digital, those actors were put on an empty green stage and vaguely told "stuff is there."
Better directing might have been able to overcome it.
04:51
And dialogue.
And dialogue.
...and the interpersonal camerawork was singularly uninspired.
I was tempted to try out Machete order, until I realized that I don't have the prequels.
I imagine your FLVS will have them.
I'm not sure we still have FLVSes.
And I'm not curious enough to buy them. :) My ex-wife probably has our copies, I could borrow them if I really wanted to.
We have a plethora of tiny video places, mostly a wall of the street-corner neighborhood store.
04:57
Those have mostly vanished here. We just have Redboxes and Netflix.
The big places like Blockbuster died years ago, and when Netflix finally started streaming out here that was the nail in the coffin.
But we've got enough low-income no-Internet households with large families that corner video stores are still very viable.

« first day (43 days earlier)      last day (2407 days later) »