English Language Learners

Iplodman

6:07 PM

It's just compiling for the last time now ;P

MARamezani

Oh, so your name is Harry ~~Potter~~?

Iplodman

Yup! :)

I was considering changing it on here :)

Damn, I noticed a really big mistake.

Open letter to Stack Exchange: 59ca9c4f320039c35372-220cf57a3c6f9dfac4b554f7d759a34e.ssl.cf5.r…

2

MARamezani

6:25 PM

-29

Q: Can I ban users from seeing or answering my questions?

This hasn't happened to me in particular, but I have always been a bit paranoid that maybe a coworker might see me asking a dumb/easy question or maybe a particular user doesn't like another user so they purposely down-vote their question. If this isn't a feature, should it be one?

feature-request

Hehe!

I wanna ban you! Don't look at me!

Shies away

Damkerng T.

"but I have always been a bit paranoid that maybe a coworker might see me asking a dumb/easy question" -- Hehe! Poor guy!

MARamezani

Phuunny, isn't it?

Damkerng T.

Admittedly, I laughed at first, but when I tried to sympathize with him, I was able to see why it could be a problem!

Damkerng T. 12k+ ELL rep: "Should I write 'on sale' or 'on sell' or 'on sales'?"

Eww!

MARamezani

> What is the meaning of life?

Classic cognitive science.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Isn't it that we all now know that the answer is 42!

MARamezani

6:32 PM

I dunno. I never got this craze about 42.

@DamkerngT. Wait. I can't see you asking that Q.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani I tried to sympathize with our shy guy.

MARamezani

They don't look shy on their profile.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I just read only the first few sentences!

@MARamezani I think the profile could the opposite of the real him!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Maybe. It's sad to know someone's shy.

Damkerng T.

:D

I don't think it's that sad, just hope that they could be a little less shy.

MARamezani

6:37 PM

Aaaargh!

-30

Q: I think there is something wrong with the system

Please tell me what is wrong as I don't understand. Here is the situation. A guy asking why is he seeing threads unique IDs counting up. I am saying — because you are creating new threads and each new thread is taking new number... and he is like — I know they are new I am asking why .NET won't...

discussion reputation

I would answer: Yes. Definitely letting you ask something is the something wrong about the system.

Damkerng T.

No comment. I think the point system (and perhaps all rewarding systems in general) can play a trick on people.

The most common system is "money".

MARamezani

Well, yes. But the reason for downvotes is the arrogance.

Damkerng T.

I think they took the points too seriously.

MARamezani

Hahaha, I know the answer to your question, and I have lesser rep. Screw you for that dork!

Damkerng T.

3

Q: What makes language easily understandable for learners?

What types of construction and vocabulary make language easy or difficult for learners to understand? This question is really important for teachers and people who want their posts to be accessible. It's also important for teachers who want their language presentations and classroom language to ...

grammar vocabulary teaching

It reminds me of something.

MARamezani

6:42 PM

@DamkerngT. Maybe Arau?

Damkerng T.

It's like doctors who believe in the results of studies more than the patients in front of them.

MARamezani

Heh. True!

+1, but IMHO it's not about the set of vocab or grammar, but it's about the closeness of the specific grammar/vocab to the learners' L1. L1 is often grasped naturally, thus anything like it fits their "instinct". (Not the best choice of words, but I hope you know what I mean) — MARamezani 31 mins ago

I think that was another good call.

Damkerng T.

I think your comment is close enough, though I think the link to learner's L1 is not really necessary.

Unless, it was in teaching sessions.

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. It's not necessary. It's instinctive.

Obligatory. Unavoidable.

Even for someone like me. Emoticon for bragging

Damkerng T.

nods -- But that will cause one difficulty: how can we make language easily understandable for a group of learners from different L1s?

MARamezani

6:46 PM

There are no more than one L1s.

You only get to soak up only one language [in a complete manner] in the early childhood.

Damkerng T.

I mean when the audience is people from different L1s.

Oh, talking about doctors makes me think of Patch Adams. Again, Robin Williams was in it!

MARamezani

Which is why I think that Q is unanswerable by SE standards.

Damkerng T.

nods

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. You sir, are very distracted!

Damkerng T.

I put a couple links to Wikipedia, but I think the OP ruled Wikipedia out.

@MARamezani o_O

MARamezani

6:50 PM

@DamkerngT. _oO

Oo_

Damkerng T.

perplexed

MARamezani

Whoa. This question is the masterpiece of bad suggestions and rants on meta.SE. I wonder why it's not the lowest voted one.

-29

Q: Proposal against power abuse on stack sites and a more democratic voting system

Stack Exchange sites are fantastic and very useful. I have been using them for years but in the last time the management is getting bad, moderators abusing power, deleting posts and comments just because they can and they think so. The fact that some people are moderators does not mean that their...

feature-request moderation abuse rules

Damkerng T.

Still on Meta.SE? Hehe!

Hmm... the title is actually interesting.

MARamezani

It needs so many downvotes it didn't get downvoted.

Damkerng T.

I guess the body is different.

MARamezani

6:54 PM

@DamkerngT. There's no such thing as democratic in the question body.

Damkerng T.

nods

MARamezani

0

Q: Is this the correct use of "rule out"?

I need to argue with this topic: "True success can be measured primarily in terms of the goals one sets for oneself" Now I was wondering can I use the following quotation: Many are counterexamples attesting that a good intention toward a success is ruled out when a damaging measure is taken...

synonyms

Someone's busy writing a formal writing thingie.

Damkerng T.

Looks like an essay.

MARamezani

Yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup

I think I raised the commonness of yup in Iranian English

Damkerng T.

:D

MARamezani

6:57 PM

@DamkerngT. Aaah, for once I predicted your response correctly.

Damkerng T.

:-)

Iplodman

print("Hallo") again!

Damkerng T.

Hallo!

Iplodman

My WiFi dropped out D:

MARamezani

Hullo!

@Iplodman It's been pestering me for a long time.

Iplodman

6:58 PM

@MARamezani My WiFi? ;)

Damkerng T.

Ah, I guess it will hurt a bit tomorrow... (I burned myself a little with the hot water.)

MARamezani

Yours first, then mine, ma'am. :P

Iplodman

@MARamezani :D

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. If you think about its hurting you, you're gonna die next week.

Damkerng T.

@Iplodman Welcome back!

@MARamezani o_O

Iplodman

7:00 PM

Thankyee!

Damkerng T.

(^_^)

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. I once had a friend... I think you get the rest.

Damkerng T.

o_O

(-_-)"

MARamezani

__O

Damkerng T.

(T_T)

o|-<

MARamezani

7:02 PM

Has watched Pirates of the Caribbean a while ago

Iplodman

Hm, my phone just drained 25% updating ;-;

Damkerng T.

Gonna try some cream...

Iplodman

@DamkerngT. Good luck!

Damkerng T.

@Iplodman Wow, what an update!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Try yogurt.

Iplodman

7:04 PM

@DamkerngT. Lollipop ;)

MARamezani

@Iplodman My phone's battery drains 50 percent with a simple SMS.

Iplodman

@MARamezani ;D

Damkerng T.

1

Q: Sentence begins with a number

The Context is about work progress. Planned work is 100%. Someone implemented only 45% of the work. 45% of the work was implemented. The sentence begins with the number. Please write whether we capitalize the first letter after the number? Is it normal in English if a sentence begins with ...

grammar

Argh! What happened in this question!

Hello @Gleison! Welcome to the room!

Iplodman

@Gleison Hullo! Welcome to our abode! :)

MARamezani

Unfortunately, you can't talk, but anyways, welcome to the ~~Do|ts'~~ ELL's chat! @Gleison

0

Q: could this usage of the article "the" be considered correct?

Could you think of a condition that the sentence below could be correct? The book are on the table.

articles

Hehe. Why is T bold?

Damkerng T.

7:12 PM

curious!

MARamezani

I think there's a devious conspiracy to this.

Iplodman

Hm, why can't Gleison chat with us?

MARamezani

@Iplodman One shalt have 20 thy rep to chat.

Iplodman

"Shan't! Blaspemy of the highest order", said he, thy lord, "thoust shalt die from whence the blade came!"

MARamezani

Why do I feelst like I'm amongst fossilsts?

Damkerng T.

7:16 PM

I know not.

MARamezani

Oooh, all thy we arest doomedst.

Damkerng T.

ELL status: 15,059 questions

The stat looks much better on workdays.

MARamezani

Nima, it doesn't take a native speaker to realize book just can't get are. — MARamezani 13 secs ago

Damkerng T.

That's one big problem commonly found in learners.

"Only native speakers know."

It's more or less true, and yet at the same time it's more or less false.

If the proposition were true, there would be no point in learning any second language, because the learner would never know.

MARamezani

7:32 PM

@DamkerngT. This, my robo-friend, deserves 846826562846846383648357284578493864783928 stars.

Damkerng T.

:D

Too many stars!

MARamezani

Lol, there should always be some punctuation or grammar error, shouldn't there? — MARamezani 15 mins ago

Damkerng T.

:D

MARamezani

BTW, have you seen this?

124

Q: The Stack Overflow Conspiracy - don't tell Jeff I'm on to him

Judging from the fact that there's been a lot of talk of venture capital being pumped into Stack Overflow lately, something hasn't been sitting well with me at all. Then I got to thinking. Ever think about Jeff's user ID? It's 1. Seems innocuous, right? Like maybe he was the first user or someth...

discussion fun jeff-atwood

Damkerng T.

[fun]

MARamezani

7:40 PM

Yes. Stupid and phuunny posts.

That's why I agreed with Snailor with my whole heart when she said meta is full of crap.

Damkerng T.

:-)

MARamezani

> He's not the only one...

Addendum: That's Jon Skeet, lest you didn't know.

Hullo @Catija!

Catija

@MARamezani Hi.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani :-)

Hello @Catija!

MARamezani

How are you this phuunny day?

Damkerng T.

7:44 PM

Is this a funny day?

Catija

Do I really need to qualify my answers with "in professional or academic settings"? I was under the impression that the reason people come here is that they want to know the correct way to speak/write English and that they know the rules always go out the window in informal writing situations.

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Yes. Funny as in strange.

Catija

@MARamezani Honestly, a bit frustrated.

MARamezani

@Catija Here? You mean chat?

Catija

Hi @DamkerngT.

@MARamezani No, in an answer.

Damkerng T.

7:45 PM

I think we can assume that ELL is about the so-called standard English, most of the time.

MARamezani

@catija that's true. what i said is also true. the mla and apa don't have any particular authority. they just make style suggestions for students. — sgroves 55 mins ago

That's just an opinion.

I wouldn't take it as dead serious.

JUUUUSSSSSTTT an opinion.

Catija

@MARamezani But do you see how s/he keeps harping on it? I don't know how to respond other than to just ignore it.

MARamezani

@Catija BTW you can ping me with a @MARa.

@Catija Ignore it.

Best piece of advice from MAR TM.

Damkerng T.

I think we can leave it at that. The answer is useful enough for the OP, imho.

MARamezani

Exactly.

There's no point in discussing something with someone when they don't listen to what you say.

Learned that lesson yesterday/today morning

Catija

7:48 PM

Yeah... and most of the time, if people want to make qualifications in the comments that's fine, and I'm happy with that.

I just don't feel the need to edit my answer to include the qualification... that I don't agree with.

MARamezani

There are usually (at times pedantic) corrections in comments, but this case of yours has just lost its productivity.

@Catija Don't do it. Your answer is perfectly fine. 5!=1

Catija

OK. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy... particularly as every source I could find agrees with my answer. :)

MARamezani

BTW,

Damkerng T.

I wish you'd have quoted APA or MLA rather than GM, though. (Just my opinion.)

MARamezani

your answer makes it sound like you shouldn't ever start a sentence with a numeral though. that's obviously nonsense, so i just wanted to point that out. that's all. you should edit your answer to make it clear you're talking about formal writing only. — sgroves 40 mins ago

Damkerng T.

7:51 PM

@MARamezani +1

MARamezani

This shows that this guy needs to study modals, IMHO.

Shouldn't != Must never

Yeah so @Catija, now you're backed up. Let's pick a shovel and go see what that guy says.

:}

Damkerng T.

I think shouldn't ever is okay, grammatically.

Catija

@DamkerngT. I quoted MLA in the comments. And, now that I have the MLA link, I may change it. I'm surprised at how low in search results MLA comes up...

Damkerng T.

(I'm on my iPad, so I can't type as many chars as I want to right now.)

MARamezani

@Dam in the answer @Cat says the OP shouldn't bring numbers at the first of the sentence, while the objector says otherwise.

Damkerng T.

7:54 PM

@Catija I remember it was hard to find MLA links for me, too.

MARamezani

Yawning Okay guys, nighty night!

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Ahh

Catija

@MARamezani Mob justice? I've not used the APA site much and couldn't find the actual content... do they actually post it?

@MARamezani Night! Thanks!

MARamezani

TTYL, hopefully!

Damkerng T.

I think I'm gonna take a break for a a bit. My thumbs are sore!

TTYL

shirish

8:25 PM

Hi all

does anybody from where the [X-POST] which you see sometimes written in subject matter as a flag in mail comes from ?

Damkerng T.

But you know its meaning, right?

shirish

@Damkerng , nope . A hunt revealed it has to do something with Xerox Corporation but I think it may be something else.

even wikipedia doesn't have an article, damn. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-POST

Damkerng T.

Oh, it's not that! It usually means "cross-posted".

shirish

ok, ok.

Damkerng T.

I don't know where it's from, though.

shirish

8:33 PM

@Damkerng, any ideas from where that acronym started ? My search-engine foo skills are not that sharp it seems.

ah ok.

Damkerng T.

Maybe Reddit.

Gotta go. See you around!

shirish

sure.

Anonymous

9:17 PM

@Man_From_India I'm afraid I don't see those syntax trees as viable

Anonymous

When I get home I can give treeing it a shot

Damkerng T.

Hi @snailboat!

Oh Iplodman just left!

Anonymous

The problem is you have many nodes at the same level, direct children of the sentence node

Anonymous

When those nodes actually form constituents with syntactic relationships

Anonymous

Hello!

Damkerng T.

9:20 PM

I think the for pattern is ambiguous (maybe not all of the cases, but lots of them).

Anonymous

'X' for cross is very old

Damkerng T.

Indeed. But I can't remember X-POST for cross-post (or cross-posted) being used until recently.

Do you know where it was first used?

Anonymous

Hmm, no... Actually, without researching I'm not sure if I'm conflating X for Christ with X for cross

Anonymous

And it's hard to check on my phone

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

9:24 PM

But X for Christ is very old (Xmas, Xtian)

Anonymous

My name is sometimes abbreviated to Xtal, though this is used more often for the word than the name

Damkerng T.

Ah, I've only seen the former!

:D

Anonymous

And there's xmit and xfer for transmit and transfer

Anonymous

Tx for transaction

Damkerng T.

Ahh... these two are something I'm more familiar with. Tx/Rx, too.

Is it Rx? -- scratching head...

Anonymous

9:26 PM

I don't know how those began

Damkerng T.

Oh, yes. Rx the prescription.

Anonymous

But I always thought of these as all being related (except Rx)

Damkerng T.

(One of my aunts is a doctor.)

Anonymous

9:49 PM

@Catija Oh, that's entirely up to you. You don't have to change an answer you wrote just because someone wrote a comment or two.

Anonymous

It's important to realize, though, that informal speech usually follows its own rules―often more complex than those of formal speech―and non-native speakers have to learn these as well

Anonymous

It's not as simple as saying the rules are out the window

Anonymous

"informal" but grammatical be would these like sentences Otherwise

Anonymous

(I wrote that sentence backwards)

Anonymous

@MARamezani Backslash, not slash

Catija

9:55 PM

@snailboat I don't think I've ever denied that informal speech in English is a thing... I think that saying it has "rules" is a bit of a stretch because I think of it more as a selective bucking of the "rules". In fact, I intentionally chose not to use "never" in my answer... I'd originally said "You should never start....".

But even if I'd said "you should avoid..." I don't think that this would have prevented the comments. If some of the commentors think it's a dumb rule, that doesn't make it any less of a rule, just one that's not always followed... I, personally, think that sentences starting with numerals look dumb, so our opinions are in direct conflict.

Anonymous

I think that sentences starting with numerals tend to look dumb, too

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