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3:20 AM
The Chinese live on, and they go on inventing. The Chinese have invented paper, printing, gunpowder, and the Great Firewall of China. What will they invent next?
If the present perfect is sometimes a finished event in an unfinished contextual time period, then an object's ability to receive future action can also admit felicitous use of the present perfect: Einstein has visited Princeton, JFK has visited Princeton. I've begun an investigation to determine if Barack Obama has.
I was sooooo addicted to the original Civilization, @snailboat. In my mind, I always lazily pronounced them tie-REEMS. I doubt that will change for long.
 
 
6 hours later…
9:01 AM
ELL status: 15,022 questions
 
@DamkerngT. I wonder why it's still in beta
@snailboat Civilization II was a great game!
 
Hehe! Maybe we are not ready yet. :-)
Good evening @CopperKettle!
 
(or afternoon, perhaps)
 
It's 14:00 here (0:
Good evening to Bangkok!
 
9:03 AM
:D
 
There was a blizzard in the night, but right now there's almost no snow on the ground due to the sun
 
Oh, no!
 
I wonder if blizzard/rain is everywhere. It rained yesterday, and it looks like it's going to rain again this evening here.
 
Well, they promise a couple of sunny days here. (0: See you later!
 
9:07 AM
Later!
+1 But I think the situation is the OP knows the bus number, so maybe the OP wants something more like "Where is the nearest bus stop that bus 20 passes?" or "Where can I wait for bus 20?". I'm not sure if these are the most natural phrasings (I'm a non-native speaker), but I think they are to the point and understandable. — Damkerng T. 44 secs ago
See, I usually look over the OP's title. The real problem could be in either the title and the body of the question.
Unless "Where can I get number 20 bus?" is idiomatic in English. (which I think it's not very idiomatic, but I might be wrong. It's pretty much like that simple sentence, "I like the color red" vs. "I like the red color", imo.)
Interesting... I tried "where can i get number * bus" on Google and found exactly 8 results!
2 are from ELL! (the OP's question!)
2 from Korean websites:
1 from a Japanese website:
3 from UK websites:
Is it fair to assume that we need the before number 20 in the OP's example?
> Where can I get the number 20 bus?
 
9:38 AM
:-)
 
9:48 AM
2
Q: Phrase meaning "to justify themselves, even when they know that they're wrong"

saji89What is the phrase that can be used to describe the situation when someone tries to justify himself, even when he knows that he's wrong. The situation is when the person didn't complete his duty, and tries to explain that he did nothing wrong, by using lame excuses. So, my question is about doin...

It's an old question, but still interesting, in more than one way.
 
You are right about "The number x bus."
 
Yay!
 
Answer!
 
There is already a good answer (imo).
It's just that the answer focuses only on the verb.
So I commented:
I looked around the web, and now think the OP's example will be more idiomatic with the, i.e. Where can I get the number 20 bus?Damkerng T. 21 mins ago
 
I saw. I upvoted your comments. I just woke up from a nap and going to buy a bottle of something for my evening drink!
 
9:53 AM
Thanks!
 
About the justifying one, I think the OP might not know enough about some related possibilities to ask the question he really wants to ask.
Because I start thinking about defense mechanisms
 
nods -- That crossed my mind indeed.
 
But it depends on the purpose, whether it involves distorting one's own perceptions or just that of others.
 
It's also interesting to see the OP struggled to express his idea.
(which I think he somewhat succeeded, but I'm still not very sure about the meaning he wanted. Must be related to his L1 somehow.)
 
A lot can be gained in struggling to articulate something.
:-)
 
9:57 AM
Indeed!
 
It's probably the main way we actually discover what we know or want to know.
Discover and/or create what we know or want to know.
It's probably the main way we actually discover what we know or want to know.
 
Wait, you're repeating yourself!
 
I get this stupid retry/edit/cancel message so often
 
I knew, but I think it could be fun poking at you for a bit. :P
 
Sometimes, before, during or after I retry, it seems to post.
Why you ... !
haha.
 
9:59 AM
Hee
 
Are you familiar with that . . . interjection, I suppose it is?
Why you little . . .
 
Yes.
 
I ought to ____ !
And we are so angry we can't think of what to put in the blank.
 
But I would feel weird if someone younger than me said that (Why you little ...) to me.
 
Or perhaps it's such vulgar language, we can't say it.
hehe
I know, but it has nothing to do with size or age. I dunno why it tends to go there.
Maybe because of some idea that the older/bigger person has the right or the power to express this kind of "anger / threat"
OK. I'm on my way to go shopping. :D
 
10:01 AM
Maybe it's because it conflicts with the oriental way of seeing things in the world?
Have a good time shopping!
 
Yes. Maybe even that it's funny to pretend to express violence.
 
nods
 
Although it's not a black-and-white kind of cultural difference.
 
Indeed. There is a Thai saying, รู้ที่ต่ำที่สูง, which has only simple words but I find it difficult to translate. Literally, it means [know-low-places-high-places]. Basically, it means something like "Know your place", i.e. know who you are, your social status, how you should behave toward others, what you should do and should not do, and such.
 
Yes. My jokes that play with irreverence often puzzle people here, and occasionally cause quite serious misperceptions.
 
10:10 AM
I guess so!
But I think it's not too difficult for you to remedy the situation!
 
I have changed quite a bit, and generally for the better.
Hmm.... I find it very, very hard!
 
Hah!
 
It is deep in my bones.
 
lol
 
I think because I'm a foreigner, I get a wide margin of tolerance for socially deviant behavior.
 
10:12 AM
Are your jokes in English or Mandarin?
 
I can't speak Mandarin. :'(
That is a sad, sad story.
 
Hah! That's a big surprise!
 
OK. Really running away now.
 
Okay. Later!
 
And I recalled that Homer and Bart Simpson is a huge source of that .. "Why you little . . "
 
10:13 AM
Indeed! It's my source too!
 
Anonymous
10:24 AM
I recently witnessed a failure to communicate
 
Anonymous
One person made a pun
 
Anonymous
The other made a remark about how bad it was
 
Anonymous
And the first person was very displeased
 
Anonymous
But in English it's common to talk about how bad puns are, even if (especially if?) you actually like them :-) I wasn't part of the conversation, but I thought about it and realized I couldn't really describe how people talk about puns in English effectively
 
Anonymous
And I realized if I were part of the conversation, it probably would have ended about the same way...
 
10:33 AM
Good morning @snailboat!
> Along the similar classifications as [1-2], we mainly cover the consensus filtering approaches in four groups, that is, consensus on estimate, consensus on measurement, consensus on information and H consensus.
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/54627/can-that-is-be-used-to-explain-multiple-things
It's rare that I would think i.e. is better than that is, but I think it is in the OP's sentence.
@snailboat Was it entirely in English, and between native speakers?
 
Anonymous
10:49 AM
Yes and no respectively, the one who made the pun was a non-native speaker
 
Anonymous
And they took the response as a serious insult
 
Ahh
 
Anonymous
It was clear to me that the other person was being friendly
 
It's the language barrier, then.
English is really hard!
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. How about a colon before the list instead of that is or i.e.?
 
10:51 AM
@snailboat Oh, yes! I think I like a colon even better!
This is how I would understand it (which is probably not very different from your understanding): a) Dear Mom, you would have heard by now that I’m O.K. (= Mom didn't hear/know that), b) Dear Mom, you should have heard by now that I’m O.K. (= I expect, based on my knowledge and experience, that it's very likely that Mom's heard that. How likely is it? It's about somewhere between might have heard and must have heard.) — Damkerng T. 9 secs ago
I tried to put my thoughts into words!
 
11:08 AM
Snailboat dropped in, and then rocketed off like a snail?
I think the problem she described was again cultural, probably not a language problem.
There's a cultural phenomenon whereby "bad" puns are mutually denigrated by all parties. The enjoyment (by all) typically comes not DESPITE the groans of "terrible and stupid" attempts at humor, but precisely BECAUSE of it!
So we have Google search results (keywords bad puns) like "25 Puns So Terrible They Should Be Made Illegal - BuzzFeed"
Really Bad Puns...
Bad Puns - Get your muds wordled!
www.badpuns.com/
46 Puns From 2014 So Dumb You'll Feel Bad For ... www.smosh.com/smosh.../46-puns-2014-so-dumb-youll-feel-bad-laughi...
Jan 2, 2015 - It's been said that puns are the lowest form of comedy, but sometimes they are so stupid you can't help but laugh.
 
11:30 AM
@JimReynolds I think they're overlapping, language and its cultural aspect.
 
Well, generally, yes.
 
For example, someone might say, "I hope Jill can get on James soon," and it could be understood the wrong way!
 
(Let's assume that the speaker is a non-native speaker.)
 
But snail said . . . one person said how bad the pun was. The other was displeased.
 
11:32 AM
But the one who made the pun was a non-native speaker.
 
Yes. And in the cultural out-group.
 
Wait a sec, I thought it was the pun maker who was displeased.
 
And so, unaware of the in-group practice of saying a pun is bad = enjoying it together.
 
Oh, yes. We are on the same page.
nods
 
Well, that's my guess.
If it was written out, the word would be "groan"
Something like . . . Well, I don't know.
O.o
 
11:34 AM
I want to restart my PC, but my background tasks haven't finished yet!
 
Stupid Joke - Puns and Other Groaners
Hmm... That sounds like a serious problem. You need to wait or smash your background down.
 
I remember that Western jokes were kinda counter-intuitive for me as a young boy man.
@JimReynolds I think I'm gonna wait! They've been running since last night.
 
O.O
Good gosh!
They might run for seven years.
 
Nah, I guess that the longest one needs at most about 7-8 hours more.
 
Yay!
 
11:37 AM
Yay! (to the 7 hours instead of 7 years!)
 
So, now, only 6h58m to 7h58 minutes.
 
lol
 
Oh. Where's the present perfect / Chinese post?
 
Hmm... Let's see...
14
Q: Why is 'The Chinese have invented the printer' wrong?

Dinusha"The Chinese invented the printer." Raymond Murphy says that we can't use the present perfect here. I question why? According to Murphy "We can't use the present perfect if there's no connection with present." But I guess there is a connection/result in the above example because we ...

My PC is kinda slow now, which is why I want to reboot it.
 
Yay.
I mean, sorry!
 
11:39 AM
Either is fine! :-)
 
Like my answer in the stupid job interview:
Can be a finished action in an unfinished time period.
"So far . . ."
There are more reasons than "relevant to now"
 
nods
 
connection to now
that is too simplistic.
Anything we would mention in the past has a connection to now, or we wouldn't mention it.
O.O
 
Or else we'd have to expand the sense of "relevant/connected to now".
 
Yes.
What we need, more than ever, with the explosion in international and intercultural relationships we can enjoy, is a great deal of tolerance.
Flexibility.
Assuming the best.
Granting of the benefit of the doubt.
Self-questioning.
 
11:42 AM
Sometimes, I guess it may be the best to explain the perfect aspect the way I usually (indirectly) explain the definiteness of English articles.
 
listening
 
@JimReynolds We live in a strange time!
 
Wonderful. Difficult.
 
@JimReynolds Oh, it's nothing much. But finally I've arrived at this conclusion: to understand the usage of the, it's best to understand that it's the definite article.
 
Yes.
 
11:44 AM
Which is probably amount to nothing, unless the learner knows what is "definite" first!
 
Yes. And also how to push and stretch at that concept.
And . . . bizarrely, from a "Western" logic system.
 
But I've tried several other ways grammar books usually use, and all I saw was lots of flaws.
 
I need a few concepts, personally.
 
"You use the when it's unique." Me: "No, it's not about uniqueness."
 
Right.
 
11:46 AM
"You use the when it's specific." Me: "Well, that's close, but it's not really about being specific!"
 
That's a sort of rule of thumb.
Yes again. So many exceptions.
 
So I guess, all the grammar books really do is trying to explain what "definite" really means. :P
 
Something like "that one which it must be"
 
nods
 
In the context.
 
11:47 AM
Still, lots of exceptions.
 
Yes.
As it should be, since no one starts using language according to a set of specific instructions.
 
exactly!
 
We just strive to extract some order on the madness.
Er, extract from
impose ... on.
 
By the same token, I dare say that the best way to understand the perfect aspect is to understand what "perfect" is. (Hah!)
 
Jim!
 
11:49 AM
@JimReynolds It's very tempting to star that!
But I don't want others to take it the wrong way. :P
 
:-)
a completed action, or a state or habitual action which began in the past
? I dunno!
 
By the way, there is a subtext in my the best way to understand the perfect aspect is to understand what "perfect" is. It's to understand what "perfect" is, not to understand know how the "perfect" aspect is used.
 
What is it? WHAT ISSS ITTT???
Jumps up and down.
 
It's "perfect"! :P
 
0.o
Something about not going to change?
Static?
 
11:56 AM
"a completed action, or a state or habitual action which began in the past", from what I've heard. :-)
 
O.O
:-)
I found it from define perfect on google just now
But I added the comma, as a guess.
 
Hah!
You convinced me!
 
GRAMMAR
(of a tense) denoting a completed action or a state or habitual action which began in the past. The perfect tense is formed in English with have or has and the past participle, as in they have eaten and they have been eating ( present perfect ), they had eaten ( past perfect ), and they will have eaten ( future perfect ).
Sounded good to me.
But it's ambiguous.
 
Definitely.
 
Does it mean completed action or completed state that . . .
 
11:58 AM
Oh, no!
 
Completed state doesn't make sense.
Right.
 
0
A: Is "which in turn" correct here?

user18819don't listen to these people it's a bunch of lies.....all lies

 
A state in . . . stasis.
 
Interesting. I think that's a run-on sentence.
 
haha. I love that advice!
 
11:59 AM
lol
 
Oh! I will read this.
I have to see if my student is here, downstairs.
 
It's funny to see some people join a stack to write something like that.
?
What is this?
 
The "Is which in turn?" question
and your answer.
 
Hah!
 
and comment and all.
 
12:04 PM
reading its own answer, in case something was wrong!
 
I don't like my own answer much.
 
What happens there?
 
Arguably, it's a bit ambiguous.
> Money can be exchanged for goods or services that fulfill people’s needs and wants which in turn bring happiness.
 
OK. Well, we can improve it.
 
12:08 PM
What brings or bring happiness?
I think this is possible:
> Money can be exchanged for goods or services that fulfill people’s needs and wants which in turn brings happiness.
 
Yeah. That's not quite right.
 
@JimReynolds In their face!
 
Money can be exchanged for goods or services that fulfill people’s needs and wants, in turn bringing happiness.
That's clearer.
However disputable the notion may be.
I'd say it may bring relief or satisfaction.
Or tend to.
But happiness?
Only knowing Damkerng T. and benefiting from its awesome features brings true happiness.
 
I took it as a sentence, not a belief!
 
I put that apostrophe in "it's" again.
 
12:11 PM
@JimReynolds That sounds way better than the original! :-)
 
:-)
OK. I'm going to look again to see if my student wandered in.
 
nods
 
OK. She's gonna be maybe 30 minutes more.
Let me read that question now.
 
nods
 
hello jim
hello Damk
 
12:18 PM
Hello, Man_From_India!
 
Hi @Man!
 
How is your raining today?
 
Did you bring your raining?
 
i was expecting it :D
 
12:19 PM
lol
 
Dam, I read through the first sentence of your answer, so far.
 
I expected you expected it!
 
There is a problem.
 
reading
> The sentence is grammatically correct, and its meaning is clear.
 
The problem is more general, not just with your first sentence.
 
12:19 PM
This one?
 
Yes.
 
?!?
 
The problem is that the sentence is ambiguous, at best.
 
Oh, I see your point.
 
As it seems to say that wants and needs bring happiness.
It is not clear what which refers to.
 
12:21 PM
I read we can even read it as: "fulfill[ing] people’s needs and wants" brings happiness
Or: such goods or services bring happiness
 
Joe Gomain has it right!
 
Or: Money brings happiness
But assuming that the sentence is correct, we have only one choice to choose.
 
And the "in turn" signifies a separate event, which occurs after something else.
 
Oh, I see, you mentioned needs and wants bring happiness.
 
Well, can an ambiguous sentence be correct?
 
12:23 PM
In its own context, it could be correct.
And because we have no good reason to claim that it's incorrect, I would avoid saying that it's incorrect.
As a standalone sentence, it is indeed ambiguous.
Hey, have you heard one of my maxims?
"Any good sentence can be bad in the wrong context."
 
Wait. Would you believe that my cat just peed all over me
?
Like 1/4th of my body?
 
Hah!
 
From above me?
 
That's weird!
 
Yes. I just turned the shower on myself briefly.
But there is a bit more attention required here.
I'll take a photo and diagram the event.
 
12:27 PM
Maybe.
Sometimes my cat gives me a hint that he needs more of my attention too, by doing his business out of his sandbox.
I wonder if he thinks of my computers as people, too. People who get more than a fair share of my affection. :-)
0
Q: Pronounciation of Give it to me

Zoltan Kingwhen you pronounce the phrase: "Give it to me" as a native speaker, does the word "to" sound reduced, more like a "t" or "t+schwa" sound? I think the stress goes on "give" and "me". Am I right?

I start to see some potential problems of the OP.
It sounds as if he's assuming that each utterance has only one "right" way to pronounce it.
 
12:47 PM
Yes. They would do much better to describe at least one situation.
Well, I really got a fair shower there. I am going to wash one more part, and now my student is on her way, so I will be away for a bit.
 
See you after the session!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:14 PM
0
A: Why is 'The Chinese have invented the printer' wrong?

rcrocemy "2 cents" is (I'm going singular on that one), not so much to emphasize the chronological aspect, but rather who/what is the subject (or object) of the sentence/statement, so that in "the Chinese invented gunpowder", the focus is on the gunpowder (the object of the sentence), as if a question ...

o_O
> If the sentence subject (The Chinese) is the context (Q: tell me about the Chinese. A: the Chinese HAVE invented gunpowder, and spaghetti), then use "have". But, if the sentence object is the context (Q: tell me about gunpowder. A: The Chinese invented gunpowder), then don't use "have".
Well, "Who invented gunpowder?" "The Chinese (invented gunpowder)!" -- Does that emphasize "gunpowder"?
1
Q: There are vs are there

user17245Nowthere in the United States but in New Jersey ______ so many people per square mile. a) there b) there are c) there is d) are there The correct one is c. When I use are there? Why not there are? is it not about existance? Anyone here can explain me? Thanks.

Nice question!
(On the other hand, I think it's not a very good question in a test.)
> The law of diminishing returns gives a reasonable explanation both of why there are so many people per square mile in the lush plain of Bengal, compared to ... -- Lectures on Economic Growth - Page 3 - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?isbn=0674016017 Robert E. Lucas - 2002 - ‎Business & Economics
> "There are so many people per square mile in Hong Kong, it's like New York City on steroids. I know I'm going to have to adjust to different ... -- Mission trip will take Lowery to Hong Kong | Albany Herald albanyherald.com/news/2013/jul/20/… Jul 20, 2013
Apparently Robert E. Lucas and Sara Lowery (who was in an Albany Herald article by Carlton Fletcher) would fail the test!
> As a class, discuss questions such as: “What are some reasons one country has so many people per square mile, while others have so few people?” -- Asia - Page 55 - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?isbn=1608234460 Evan-Moor Educational Publishers
> No other state has so many people per square mile. -- New Jersey - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?isbn=0761415297 David C. King - 2004 - ‎History -- (This is probably the source or an indirect source of the OP's test.)
> But NY has always been my favorite place to do street art because there's so many people per square mile, and because people walk, so they ... Shepard Fairey On Jail, Anonymity and David Bowie papermag.com/2014/05/shepard_fairey_david_bowie_jail.php May 19, 2014
Sorry, I wrote the incorrect alternative. But the correct is d. — user17245 4 mins ago
Oh, so the answer wasn't c) (there is) but d) (are there)!
 
2:41 PM
I think this is not the question about correctness, but of stress...
 
nods -- I kinda agree.
 
Hello friends. I am writing an answer to Chinese have invented printing.
The public needs me for this.
o.o
 
Haven't you written that already?
 
I think in here?
 
Ah, I misremembered it.
 
2:46 PM
Sortof?
 
Go for it!
 
I think it's our Hot Question now.
 
3
Q: Antonym: "repetitive"

Joe MoranoLet's say there's a video game that never gets boring no matter how much you play it, because there's always something new to do in it. What would be a term to describe the game? The opposite would be a "repetitive" game that gets boring quickly, because there's only one thing to do in it.

I'm getting some love for this one!
 
Must be a never-boring game. :-)
 
2:50 PM
O.0
 
"a video game that never gets boring no matter how much you play it"
Doesn't sound like an antonym of 'repetitive' though. :P
@JimReynolds A secret admirer? :-)
 
What doesn't?
 
never-boring
 
I only want a secret robot admirer and a delicious Meal From India admirer. :-)
 
Ever-changing sounds much better as an antonym.
@JimReynolds Had you considered any chances that your secret admirer was perhaps non-human? :-)
 

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