English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

17:00

I think it's about realis vs. irrealis in the if-clause. I would accept both, too. Maybe because it's a nagative clause.

Damkerng T.

17:23

Interesting... I checked it out in PEU a bit, I think according to PEU, that sentence on Wikipedia would be marked unacceptable.

Anonymous

2

A: Is "forenoon" commonly used?

I grew up on a dairy farm in Dover, PA. My family, as with most folks in the region, are influenced by PA Dutch (not Dutch as in from Holland but Dutch Anglicized Deutsch/German) dialects. I'm not surprised it doesn't show up in Internet searches as I don't know that I've ever actually written ...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't think I agree with PEU there

Anonymous

Although I think it's fair to teach learners to write it the other way in a pedagogical grammar

Anonymous

(Well, there's a difference between recommending writing something and saying you must write it that way)

Anonymous

I think this is a good question. I'm not sure why it was downvoted, let alone twice. — snailboat 3 hours ago

Damkerng T.

17:27

@snailboat I think I agree with you. I don't know what other books say about this kind of construction.

@snailboat I had voted it up!

(Perhaps that was the first thing I did on ELL today, after I was done with my PC.)

@snailboat But, but, we can find it in books on Google Books!

(If I hear forenoon, I might think of some time around 10:30-11:59.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I upvoted that answer

Anonymous

I don't think of anything when I hear forenoon

Anonymous

I have to look at it and try to come up with a meaning

Anonymous

"Oh, before noon, I guess."

Anonymous

I wouldn't recommend learners use the word

Damkerng T.

17:37

nods -- Maybe okay in movie scripts or novels.

3

Q: Generic term for "lowercase", "uppercase" and "camelcase"

I want to write something like this: In choosing his variable names, the applicant did not show a clear pattern or convention. Not only does the casing seem to be chosen randomly, ... But I did not find in my dictionary that casing can be used for anything other than a box. Can I use it ...

Anonymous

Well, if you're writing a movie script or a novel, you don't need me to make a recommendation :-)

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure, but saying casing alone sounds a bit weird to me. ("letter casing" sounds better, imo.)

Anonymous

A writer makes choices like that all the time

Anonymous

Casing does sound weird to me out of context

Anonymous

It could work in context, though so could case

Anonymous

17:39

My intuition says case is better than casing (with or without letter)

Damkerng T.

nods -- I recommended: "letter case".

Anonymous

I've been a programmer all my life and I've got a fairly good feel for technical vocabulary

Anonymous

But (unsurprisingly) usage varies and my intuition probably doesn't match existing usage perfectly

Damkerng T.

I think the OP's context is a rather formal one.

Anonymous

I updated my answer about forenoon

Anonymous

17:43

Now that I know how to link to COCA results, I might as well do so! :-)

Damkerng T.

Hooray!

Anonymous

I also added a note that most of the results we do find are in fiction

Damkerng T.

My guess is, it's probably more common in BrE.

Anonymous

No

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

17:44

Not significantly

Anonymous

Maybe slightly

Anonymous

If you search GloWbE

Anonymous

corpus.byu.edu/glowbe/?c=glowbe&q=33239622

Anonymous

You'll find that the number is slightly higher under GB

Anonymous

But if you click the results

Anonymous

17:46

You'll find that there are a bunch of repeated results from one source inflating the numbers

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

Nooo

Anonymous

Due to recent upvotes I have more silver badges on ELL than Japanese.SE

Damkerng T.

I just thought that it sounds like something Jack the Giant Slayer could say at home.

@snailboat Oh, should I retract my upvote? :)

Anonymous

Too late!

Anonymous

17:48

Badges don't go away!!

Anonymous

You fiend! :-)

Damkerng T.

I'm sorry!

Anonymous

Hah

Damkerng T.

:)

Anonymous

Better be!

Anonymous

17:50

0

A: Alternative "Higgsless" models would have been considered if the Higgs boson was not discovered

The sentence would have been more clear with the proper punctuation: Alternative, "Higgs-less" models would have been considered if the Higgs boson was not discovered. In this case alternative and Higgsless are both adjectives.

Anonymous

I'm not a huge fan of that comma, to be honest

Damkerng T.

Oh, someone posted answer to the Higgsless question!

Eh? I think that's not even close to the point of the question.

How could a conditional thingy turn into a comma thingy?

Anonymous

Um. Shrug? :-)

user116848

I have a general question

Damkerng T.

General mode activated!

user116848

17:55

haha

user116848

Well, here it is. It is kinda stupid question. Sorry. :-)

user116848

Is a person of my level/standard considered a layman? <----

Damkerng T.

I think a layman usually means an average person.

user116848

Oh, I see. Because I have been called one :(

Damkerng T.

Generally speaking.

Specifically, it would depend on your context, I think.

Macmillan says, "someone who is not trained to a high or professional standard in a particular subject"

user116848

17:58

So, in class I asked something from a colleague of mine (she), she later called me a 'layman' in a very dry tone. Well, I guess I asked something basic :(

user116848

I hate her. Arrggghh

user116848

:-)

Damkerng T.

I'm not an accountant, so I probably don't understand technical terms used in accountancy, and I might need you to phrase those terms in layman's terms if you wanted to explain something difficult in your field to me.

Oh!

That's probably a bit harsh.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Layman applies to people in specific contexts

user116848

Yes, it was accounting related. I feel depressed now :(

Anonymous

17:59

I've never really heard it used as an insult

user116848

So, it is not an 'insult'. Good to know, I guess.

Anonymous

Well, I suppose anything can be an insult if you try hard enough to make it one, but I don't think layman is one in its basic sense

Anonymous

For example, when Damkerng and I were talking about Kinzle B's latest question

Anonymous

We could have talked about the sentence's protasis and apodosis

Anonymous

We chose not to and used lay terms

Damkerng T.

18:03

(And Damkerng would be glad that he has the Internet to help!)

user116848

heh :-)

Anonymous

That's how I think of lay / layman's

user116848

I see. Thanks guys!

user116848

BTW where can I learn wisdom so I can remain positive in every situation?

user116848

Sorry, it's a general question as well.

Anonymous

18:06

I don't know. I have precious little wisdom :-)

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I probably got that from Confucius and Buddha, indirectly.

user116848

@DamkerngT. Damk may be you can help me with this. You seem like you possess a wisdom of a monk :-)

user116848

I mean in a positive sense :-)

Damkerng T.

It's a bit oriental in my case. :)

user116848

Yes, I noticed.

Anonymous

18:08

Interestingly, Oriental has fallen out of use in recent years in the US, where some may even feel it has racist undertones, although there have always been people using the term with neutral or positive connotations. But in many other countries the term is still current

Damkerng T.

Oh, interesting! I didn't know that.

Anonymous

People nowadays tend to say Eastern

Anonymous

Or Asian, although people seem to disagree on what any of these terms mean :-)

Damkerng T.

LOL

user116848

Interesting!

user116848

18:10

But I use orientals in a positive sense

Anonymous

(Is India part of Asia? That was the subject of a discussion on either ELL or ELU recently.)

user116848

@DamkerngT. So, I read on the internet that orientals are very good with dealing with 'anger' too. So, any secrets Damk?

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Me too. Or I mean, I would, and I understand it in a positive sense

user116848

I know :)

Anonymous

But in practice I'm unlikely to use it because my fellow Americans might think it's a racist term

Damkerng T.

18:10

I think it's not that different in both sides of the world.

We also have something like "Positive Thinking".

user116848

I don't think it is racist. I always read it in a positive sense/context/tone etc :)

Anonymous

But in other parts of the world, you can still find respected institutions with the term: orinst.ox.ac.uk

Damkerng T.

I usually think more about "Mindful and peaceful thinking."

user116848

@DamkerngT. Oh, that! Good to know

user116848

Yes, meditation is good!

Anonymous

18:12

I find mindfulness meditation very useful

user116848

I need to work on that!

Anonymous

Although I don't really have any wisdom to speak of :-)

user116848

@snailboat How do you meditate? With songs?

user116848

Any good ideas?

Anonymous

No music, just focusing on my breathing going in and out, eyes slightly open, sitting up so I don't fall asleep

Anonymous

18:13

Clearing my mind every time something enters it

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That sounds a lot like meditation!

user116848

I see

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Actually, there are Thai temples in the US where you can go to learn to meditate with lessons in English!

Anonymous

Which I learned about from my Thai friend :-)

Damkerng T.

You probably might have heard that the word Buddha means, "the Awaken One".

@snailboat Oh, neat!

A-ha! That explains it!

user116848

18:14

Although in our religion (Islam) there are many good methods but sadly they can't seem to work for me.

user116848

I don't know why.

Damkerng T.

Basically, our belief is about being awake, which in many ways is about seeing things as they are, and accept them as is, both inside and outside.

user116848

I am turning into a atheist I guess.

user116848

Yes, true.

Damkerng T.

You can feel that kind of wisdom a bit in the song: Let It Be!

user116848

18:17

haha

hey

beatles

user116848

Also I remember a good song by John Lennon "Imagine"

Damkerng T.

nods

user116848

But it's all 'imagine' nothing else

Damkerng T.

Hello, @hey!

(What a name!)

hey

18:19

@DamkerngT. Hi, My name is Freddy

Damkerng T.

Hello, Freddy! I'm Damkerng.

user116848

I am Arrowfar

Damkerng T.

Welcome to ELL's chat room!

user116848

thanks! hehe.

hey

Thank you!

I always try to find answer about religions and there are always some answer, you will find unacceptable. But by that you should never stop believing in one super power (whatsoever we call it.).

user116848

18:26

Yes, that is true. There is khuda (God) in every religion I guess

hey

I think i should sleep. Bye

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I'm sorry. I upvoted another answer of yours!

@hey Have a good sleep, and see you around!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Hee

user116848

@DamkerngT. Isn't that a good thing? :p

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar I thought so too. I wonder why it wasn't a good thing. :P

user116848

18:38

Is 'Drop dead' considered a bad thing, if spoken by a girl in a social situation?

user116848

@DamkerngT. That's new :-)

Damkerng T.

Not a very nice word a nice girl would say, imo.

user116848

BTW I have not been called 'that' (drop dead). I am not that bad of a loser! :-)

Damkerng T.

In some occasions, it could be okay, I suppose. (Like being with their close friends, etc.)

user116848

Yes I know

user116848

18:40

I asked because when followed by 'gorgeous' it's meaning change completely

user116848

"Drop dead gorgeous"

Damkerng T.

nods

user116848

Confusing huh

Damkerng T.

Context helps.

user116848

Yes.

Anonymous

18:42

"Drop dead" as a complete sentence is a very blunt (and somewhat dated?) way to reject someone

Anonymous

"Drop dead" as an attributive modifier (as in drop dead gorgeous) is a colorful way of saying "extremely"

user116848

Yes, that makes sense.

Anonymous

~~I think it first appeared in that phrase but~~ I wouldn't be surprised if it's occasionally used to modify other adjectives

Anonymous

Hmm.

Anonymous

Wikipedia says it was first used in 1985.

Anonymous

18:45

The OED, though, says it dates back to 1962

Anonymous

And it gives it in other phrases, like drop-dead glamour (I haven't heard this one)

user116848

Yes, I was watching a film in which a guy says:

Anonymous

> For drop dead chic food, Harborplace has a sushi and tempura bar.

user116848

> Hi, Stacy.
Drop dead.
Hi, Sheila.
Eat me, Tucker.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Yeah, that's roughly "Eff off."

user116848

18:47

So, Sheila and Stacey were cross by him.

user116848

I mean 'mad'

Anonymous

Yes, I suppose you could put it that way (usually "cross with" rather than "cross by", I think)

Damkerng T.

Definitely don't want to hang out with Tucker. :)

user116848

So, 'cross with'. Thanks!

user116848

@DamkerngT. LOL

Anonymous

18:49

Well, in AmE we don't use cross with that meaning very often

Anonymous

I learned it from books when I was young (from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, perhaps?)

user116848

Actually it was from a comedy film which I don't think I should mention here. Or can I?

user116848

Miss March

Anonymous

I haven't seen that film

user116848

But I didn't watch the whole film. It was kinda bad.

Anonymous

18:50

Oh, my: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_March#Critical_response

Anonymous

> Miss March was poorly received by nearly all critics. Rotten Tomatoes reported that only 5% of reviewers gave the film positive reviews, based upon a sample of 76 reviews, which gave an average score of 2.5 out of 10.[5] At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the film received an average score of 7 ('overwhelming dislike' is their assignation for this score), based upon 15 reviews as of March 17, 2009.[6]

Anonymous

Overwhelming dislike!

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar I just heard its name from you! :)

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yes, don't watch it. It is dirty comedy. I don't watch usually.

user116848

Sorry I mentioned. It just came out.

Damkerng T.

18:52

I think I might be okay watching it. I just didn't know about it.

Probably more watchable than Saw!

user116848

hehe okay. But don't blame me afterwards :D

user116848

@DamkerngT. Saw is classic but gross

Anonymous

I haven't heard of that one either

Anonymous

My favorite recent movie is Frozen :-)

Damkerng T.

I like the snowman dreaming of the beach scene!

user116848

18:54

Go Frozen! Yay!

user116848

I should watch Frozen too, I guess. Too many good reviews.

Damkerng T.

It's alright to not watch it. I have a feeling that you might not like it much.

user116848

May be :D

user116848

But I liked "Anastasia" cartoon when I watched long time ago :D

user116848

It was one of my favorites.

user116848

18:58

And "Pocahantus"

Damkerng T.

Oh, then you probably like Frozen too!

user116848

haha yes, I think so.

user116848

So, some comments are very funny in ELU chat. It's fun to read the chat there sometimes :-)

user116848

I mean the chat of guys fluent in English with 'puns' and 'jokes'

user116848

So you know Kit is not coming in ELU chat. She is mad about some folks there. Not me, thankfully.

user116848

19:03

I have confirmed it :-)

user116848

So, I was hanging around Base camp chat some time ago. And I got the treatment of a troll there by some folks. So I left.

Damkerng T.

Base camp chat? Do we have one here on SE?

user116848

May be because I wasn't contributing to their Questions and Answers

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yes, it is 'Outdoors SE'

Damkerng T.

Oh! I see.

user116848

19:05

Very cool place to chat about mountains and stuff

Damkerng T.

I remember you told me you like mountains.

user116848

I told them we have K2 here. Then I didn't know what else to talk about LOL

user116848

So, I made some silly comments which made them dislike me a bit I reckon.

Damkerng T.

There must be someone there on that stack who likes mountains too.

user116848

But guys there were good with me, strangely. Gals there thought I was some troll.

user116848

19:07

@DamkerngT. Yes, many! :D

user116848

Anyhoo I don't go there very often now.

user116848

:-)

Damkerng T.

It shouldn't be too hard for mountain-liking people to find a topic to talk with each other.

user116848

Yes, I know. Totally.

user116848

But in the chat we have campers etc. who think of me as a newbie in camping and outdoors.

Damkerng T.

19:10

I'm a newbie in those kinds of stuff!

user116848

You are right though, similar interests shouldn't be boring to talk about.

user116848

There must be something wrong with how I sound (write) in chat. May be.

Damkerng T.

I can't say for sure. I wasn't there.

user116848

It's okay for me though. I am good :-)

Damkerng T.

Hooray!

user116848

19:13

For example:

user116848

in The Base Camp, Sep 18 at 10:43, by Aravona

@Arrow it was not taken friendly and I expect and apology

user116848

in The Base Camp, Sep 18 at 10:44, by Aravona

@Arrow not a proper one, 'sorrrry' is not a word.

user116848

in The Base Camp, Sep 18 at 10:44, by Rory Alsop

Folks - I don't think this needs to have escalated like this.

user116848

So I left

user116848

Happily

user116848

19:14

Bad stuff, right!

user116848

Should I delete this? I have some seconds left

user116848

Tell me!

user116848

Noooo

user116848

Oh, and this one:

user116848

in The Base Camp, Sep 18 at 10:45, by Aravona

@Arrow you should not have made the statement full stop.

user116848

19:17

:(

Damkerng T.

Was that the first day you met them?

user116848

Yes, after two three days.

user116848

I think I didn't introduce myself there etc.

Damkerng T.

I guess something went wrong before that, but it's probably not easy to find.

user116848

I mean even on ELU chat I feel happy.

user116848

19:23

So you don't visit new places here?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Probably not. :)

user116848

I do. But every place is okay. Not good not bad.

user116848

But unlike some users I have never said anything to get banned lol

user116848

Most of the time I 'give in' when the pressure starts to rise and say 'sorry' etc.

Damkerng T.

You actually don't have to give in or give up. Just be polite and be nice. That should be enough.

user116848

19:27

Yes :)

user116848

Good suggestion.

user116848

Niceness goes a long way.

user116848

I was just being 'straightforward' there. (Base camp chat)

user116848

Because the other person was acting like a kid.

Damkerng T.

Socializing or making a conversation is kinda an art. People probably don't think about it much, but it is.

user116848

19:31

Exactly!

user116848

I mean in real life I am not awkward or anything. But a person can't be jolly with everyone you know.

Damkerng T.

If it is otherwise, probably there would be no such book as "How to deal with difficult people" and alike!

user116848

It's the part of life I'd say. Part of Game may be.

user116848

Yes, dealing with 'difficult people' haha

Damkerng T.

I guess you could put it that way.

user116848

19:35

But I don't bother with them.

Damkerng T.

That's fine too.

user116848

So here is how I deal with difficult people:

user116848

------>I ignore them after my work gets done.

user116848

That is a very good solution IMO

user116848

haha

user116848

19:36

It pisses them off too. But they can't do anything.

user116848

:D

user116848

But the problem arises when this 'difficult person' is a boss.

user116848

That is a topic for many questions in the 'Workplace' heading

Anonymous

Well, you can't always win if you're treating life as a zero-sum game.

Anonymous

You win, they lose.

Anonymous

19:38

You lose, they win.

Anonymous

But what if you could figure out a way both people could win?

user116848

What way could that be snail?

Anonymous

I don't know. It's not a very easy question to answer.

user116848

But, I am curious. I wanna know :D

user116848

So I should ask that my parents?

user116848

19:40

But I'll pass.

Shashank Sawant

I am writing the final chapter and I think I have overused words like discussed, detailed, explained, etc.

Are there more synonyms I can use?

Anonymous

Depend on what you're trying to say, it may be possible to use more specific words.

Shashank Sawant

An example sentence goes like this: The summary of this work is discussed in this chapter.

Damkerng T.

Discuss sounds perfect there, in my opinion.

Shashank Sawant

kk... Thanks!

Damkerng T.

19:45

How many discuss(es|ed) have you used that makes you feel like it's being overused?

My general idea is, if you feel like you're repeating the same word again and again, chances are, you might want to reorganize your thoughts, rather than changing the word itself.

But it would depend on a lot of factors, mostly on what you're trying to communicate.

I have to be afk for a while. (Going to grab some food :-)

Nico

20:37

@ShashankSawant "The summary of this work can be found in Chapter X"

Damkerng T.

20:48

Oh, hello @Nico!

Batallions not designated by letters, but by numbers. @DamkerngT. — CarSmack 48 mins ago

Nico

Hi

Damkerng T.

I think that two sentences are really difficult! -- It's rather clear that native speakers can hear something that hadn't been said.

Nico

My connection is dropping all the time (annoying!)

Damkerng T.

@Nico Oh, no!

I hope everything is going well over there!

Oh, I think I clicked the wrong button while reviewing a question. I'm not sure what I clicked on!

(I wanted to click "No Action Need" but I think I somehow clicked on the button next to it.)

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