The h Bar

ACuriousMind

16:00

@Slereah lol

0celo7

but the paper is very heavy

Balarka Sen

taubes types up every paper in MS word

0celo7

no

David Z

OK, chat session time!

0celo7

this paper is pre-TeX

@DavidZ nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Balarka Sen

16:01

I'm off to play Getting Over It. Have fun.

David Z

Since we don't really have anything particular to discuss today I'm not going to set out a formal agenda

Slereah

@0celo7 Hall uses $^$ for both quantum operators and Fourier transforms

Quite the boner

Phonon

I got pinged into h bar with a message saying an event is going to start. What event is that?

David Z

but is anyone here new to chat, new to chat sessions, or new to the site?

0celo7

Does he really hat operators?

rob

16:02

1 min ago, by David Z

OK, chat session time!

Slereah

@0celo7 Axiom 2 p. 65

ACuriousMind

@Phonon It's the bi-weekly chat session (also, I just realized I forgot about your mail, rectifying that now :/)

Phonon

@ACuriousMind ah ok, thanks :) no worries

0celo7

he seems to forget about the pretentious hats

Slereah

I'm not bi, can I stay

0celo7

16:03

he only puts them on the Hamiltonian

ACuriousMind

Speaking of pretentious hats, winterbash is gonna start in 8 hours

2

David Z

winterbash2017.stackexchange.com

0celo7

do people really care about that thing?

David Z

Yeah, that's the only piece of news I have as far as the site goes

Slereah

It's the whole internet point thing @0celo7

people love fake points

ACuriousMind

16:05

@0celo7 Yes!

People go wild trying to get hats

0celo7

I care about actual points, aka GDP

which is a REAL LIFE point system that has VALUE

MatheinBoulomenos

I care about actual points, like prime ideals

0celo7

ok that's too far removed from this room

please don't bring algebra in here

Slereah

I only care about spacetime points

Phonon

@ACuriousMind se... is you right?

ACuriousMind

16:10

@Phonon aye

Phonon

@ACuriousMind kk :)

Sid

@0celo7 GDP is an overrated value point that people use to win elections.

0celo7

pff

you're only saying that because Trump is getting 3%

John Rennie

Is that it for the physics chat? Can we get back to talking about maths and clickbait? :-)

David Z

Yeah, I mean, I haven't got anything physics-y to talk about

Terry Bollinger

16:12

Thanks John, I intensely dislike seeing "Trump" on the first line I read for physics chat...

David Z

If someone else has something interesting related to physics we can always talk about that... there's always some news to go around

Nobel prize awards ceremonies are coming up, I guess, but that's sort of old news

MatheinBoulomenos

I found this pretty interesting: quantamagazine.org/…

Secret

please wait almost done

David Z

@MatheinBoulomenos Hm, yeah, interesting

vzn

@MatheinBoulomenos interesting! am pursuing some (deep) physics-like connections myself in number theory :)

MatheinBoulomenos

16:16

I attended a talk of Minhyong Kim on this topic

David Z

It's always hard to know what to make of these kinds of ideas until they've been around a while, though. In my experience they tend to be overhyped at first.

vzn

@MatheinBoulomenos awesome, where, at oxford? (his university) how was it?

MatheinBoulomenos

no, at heidelberg

it's mentioned somewhere in the article

Secret

Voyager 1 Fires Up Vack up Thrusters After 37 Years, expect to extend service life until 2020

800 million solar mass black hole observed in quasar when universe is only 690 millions years old\

Models showed that Proxima Centauri b atmospheric loss rate will be lower if it has an intrinsic magnetic field

Condensed matter

Evidence for a topological excitonic insulator in InAs/GaSb bilayers

attractive force induced by blackbody radiation between a caesium atom and a heated, centimetre-sized cylinder, which is orders of magnitude stronger than the outward-directed radiation pressure

Two molecule memory

Signatures of exciton condensation in a transition metal dichalcogenide\

Ultrafast dynamics of vibrational symmetry breaking in a charge-ordered nickelate\

MatheinBoulomenos

It was a really good talk, but I don't really know Gauge theory, so I could only follow the number theoretic stuff and not really get the motivation from physics. My understanding of a Gauge field is that it is some section of a principle $G$-bundle or something like that

Secret

16:19

Quantum mechanics and quantum computing

0celo7

@Slereah let me know when you get to chapter 20

Secret

Provably secure and high-rate quantum key distribution with time-bin qudits

0celo7

I wanna read that too, but I skipped it on my first reading

MatheinBoulomenos

@vzn what kind of connections?

Secret

Observation of a many-body dynamical phase transition with a 53-qubit quantum simulator

Generation of photonic entanglement in green fluorescent proteins

ACuriousMind

16:21

@Secret Is there something you want to discuss about these links or are you just dumping them here?

vzn

Dec 5 at 17:25, by vzn

Grasshopper problem yields insight into quantum theory / physorg

↑ another remarkable connection between pure math/ applied physics etc

MatheinBoulomenos

what is the ELImathundergrad explanation of Gauge theory?

vzn

@MatheinBoulomenos have found some fluid dynamics/ dynamical eqn connections (in collatz problem, cf blog in my profile). it seems to relate to energy conservation/ minimization in some ways...

ACuriousMind

@MatheinBoulomenos Maybe look at physics.stackexchange.com/q/126978/50583 and its linked questions

Secret

@ACuriousMind what does sharing news even mean here as vzn seemed to run into no problems?

ACuriousMind

16:23

@Secret Well, if vzn posted a dozen links without any commentary I'd ask them the same thing

Secret

hmm...

vzn

@Secret personally appreciate the news. this chat session is what ppl make it. theres no agenda (today). etc

ACuriousMind

I mean, sharing news it great, but I can't read all these articles as fast as you're posting them and I don't even know if they might be interesting to me

I'm much more inclined to click on a link when you say something about why that's interesting

2

MatheinBoulomenos

@ACuriousMind thanks

David Z

I guess we have had link dumps in chat sessions in the past. Though I do think it's better to post only a few things with some commentary to follow them up.

→ 3 messages moved to Trashcan

Secret

16:24

hmm I see.... in that case let me think... cause there are some things I like to talk abotu a few of them

0celo7

@vzn I'm an upstanding citizen now

@ACuriousMind that's your undergrad explanation? wtf?

MatheinBoulomenos

I could post some commentary on the link I posted, but it would be mostly number theory and not physics

Secret

Well my first commentary about that batch of quantum news is that in recent weeks, the quantum computing researches have been exploding with a lot of nice findings via quantum simulators, thus showing that we are moving towards more practical quantum computing stage

Emilio Pisanty

@Secret well, they say ultrafast

but their time axes are in picoseconds

0celo7

@ACuriousMind do you stand by $d_A$ as a covariant derivative in 2017

ACuriousMind

16:27

@0celo7 He did say he was at Heidelberg and I wrote that answer when I was an undergrad here, too ;P

Secret

though for that green fluorescent protein one, I like to emphasize that after the past uncertainties about the existence of quantum biology in the general physics community, it seems there is new evidence showing that quantum biology is indeed important

0celo7

@ACuriousMind that's second year graduate at virtually every American school

Secret

quantum biology is one of the spaces I have been watching, so that is kinda interesting

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Apart from you not having used the upright d, yes

0celo7

@ACuriousMind we talked about this, i'm using slated d now

still upright e and i

@ACuriousMind so why not $D_A$ like everyone else

vzn

16:28

@Secret think that has been very active/ significant lately... there was even a remarkable paper trying to tie photosynthesis structures to QC... wild stuff... (would be hard for me to dig it up in short time...)

Terry Bollinger

@Secret simple equivalence: Anything that uses waves has a quantum interpretation, and a lot of biology uses waves. It's entanglement that's trickier.

Balarka Sen

is the session over

i am done with this game lol

MatheinBoulomenos

I know connections on vector bundles, so this seems to be a generalizations where we replace $GL_n(\Bbb R)$ with some other lie group

Secret

As for the condensed matter stuff, these new material phases are interesting because exciton condensation have been theorised for at least 70 years and there is evidence for their existence. On the more practical side, more topological insulators to ponder about

vzn

Experiment demonstrates quantum mechanical effects from biological systems / physorg

David Z

16:29

@BalarkaSen It lasts an hour

Balarka Sen

Yeah but we seem to be talking about math and schtick now so I thought it died out.

Secret

and the rapid number of these condensed matter news item and their correlation with the quantum simulator news item are once again showing that when quantum computer finally become commercial, expect a lot of activity in condensed matter physics and chemistry

which for me as a computational chemist PhD, is an exciting time to live

Terry Bollinger

@vzn I saw that earlier, it's intriguing. Polarization entanglement is something that certainly looks worth exploring...

Secret

and finally, it is good that they get the voyager stuff working,the voyagers are probably our only way for a long time to explore what is going to happen in interstellar space

so we must not lose them too early

Terry Bollinger

since waves are easy in bio, including polarized waves... well, who knows, maybe high-temp entanglement is not outside of plausibility. But if it exists, it would be a big deal I'd think.

0celo7

16:34

@ACuriousMind "For general GG, which can always be written as matrix groups"

@ACuriousMind proof?

ACuriousMind

That's...actually wrong in full generality

0celo7

@ACuriousMind I know, good edit

Slereah

@0celo7 might take a little bit

Secret

@EmilioPisanty picoseconds sounds very fast to me, but perhaps to that field they expect processes to be at attosecond scales thus picosecond will be too slow under this standards

0celo7

@ACuriousMind so no one cares about metaplectic gauge theory?

ACuriousMind

16:36

I don't think so, no

Secret

I am not terribly familar with that field obviously

0celo7

@ACuriousMind is E_8 a matrix group?

MatheinBoulomenos

@ACuriousMind some questions: 1) if we take $G=GL_n(\Bbb R)$ this reduces to the theory of smooth vector bundles with connections, right? 2) What does the action do? Something we want to minimize like in analytical mechanics? 3) What you wrote on traces made me think that there's some representation theory lurking in the background, right?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Depends on which form you're talking about, I think

$E_8$ is the root system, but there's a split form, a compact form, etc.

@MatheinBoulomenos Yes to all ;)

MatheinBoulomenos

compact connected lie groups are always matrix groups by Ado's theorem

0celo7

16:41

write down the E_8 matrices please

vzn

Mar 30 at 20:37, by TanMath

https://arxiv.org/abs/1311.4688

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 This chat's margin is too narrow to fit them :P

MatheinBoulomenos

Is there some interesting structure on the space of all Gauge fields for a given theory?

Terry Bollinger

@vzn thanks for the reminder on that, I had it on queue to examine that paper on polarization entanglement more closely, but had forgotten about it. Again, if it's real (not sure I buy it yet), it could be a lot more significant than it would seem at first glance. A route to room temp entanglement? Uh... yeah!

0celo7

I think I promised a talk on Noether's theorem in GR. I have to go through this bundle crap again

I'll probably just wave my hands in those parts

Balarka Sen

16:44

The space of gauge fields is actually space of sections of a bundle

I guess like $P\times_G G^{ad}$?

MatheinBoulomenos

Like for vector fields, the space of vector fields is a module sheaf over the locally ringed space $M$ with sections on open subsets $U$ given by $C^\infty(U)$

vzn

@Secret re excitons that has been going under headline "new state of matter discovered" in popsci accts... o_O yes it does seem like very active era for physics discoveries across the wide spectrum. have suggested something like "golden age"... scientists like "kids in candy store" so to speak...

0celo7

@MatheinBoulomenos jesus christ

are you being ironic?

MatheinBoulomenos

no

I'm talking about physics :P

0celo7

you're being too mathy for most mathematicians

ACuriousMind

16:45

@BalarkaSen @MatheinBoulomenos Usually, what the physicist calls the "gauge field" is what the mathematician calls the connection form (or rather the local connection forms induced on the base for a trivializing cover of the bundle).

vzn

@TerryBollinger QM effects in biology looks like quite sizeable/ certifiable paradigm shift (in play) these days. revolutionary! the early stages are typically full of wild claims and uncertainty... where theres smoke theres fire...

0celo7

@ACuriousMind yah weren't you cheating a little in that answer by skirting around the local trivializations?

(in the second part with curvature)

Balarka Sen

@0celo7 If you glue the local trivializations by keeping track of the symmetries you shall get the gauge bundle. Then you can do everything globally

It's just a bit of extra technicality

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Yes, sure, didn't want to get into the bundle stuff there

0celo7

@BalarkaSen see ^

Balarka Sen

16:47

So?

He's writing an answer for physics.SE not mathoverflow

0celo7

you clearly misunderstood what I wrote

whatever

Secret

hmm, i usually think about them as interesting cases where biology has quantumness, never thought that far of the implication of room temperature entanglement.

The jellyfish article, though does mention that the entanglements are protected by the cage structure of the GFP, so perhaps biological system may have keys on how to solve environmental noise problem in quantum computing implementations

ACuriousMind

If you want to see me talk about bundles and gauge theory, see physics.stackexchange.com/a/317273/50583 and physics.stackexchange.com/a/319780/50583

Terry Bollinger

@vzn agree but again, a huge part of the problem is simply a failure in our education system to point out the "waves=quantum" always equivalence. Every photon has to see the shape of your entire eye! Feynman specified the math of that in extreme detail over 50 years ago! It just has never really hit home with our teaching of it, which relies too much on classical.

vzn

@TerryBollinger have some agreement on that and sometimes think that mainstream physicists tend to downplay the wave in the schroedinger wave eqn eg partly due to copenhagen interpretation considerations :|

Secret

16:49

@vzn To be a science communicator, be very careful not to hype a topic. Popsci often had a bad reputation on that which is why while I read them first, I always jump to the paper and comprehend from there. There are also findings where the popsci version is their interpretation on what the finidng mean, not not so much about what the finding is

Terry Bollinger

So waves, like the excitons in photosynthesis -- shoot, that silly energy focusing thing is nothing more than a fiber lens for excitons, you don't even have to say "quantum" to explain it, though it sounds a lot more exicitng.

Secret

I subscribe to the neither wave nor particle view, thus to me I like to treat quantum states as some amorphous stuff that obeys superposition

vzn

@Secret have seen this recurring topic a lot in this room, but still think sometimes scientists trying to kill hype get a bit too paranoid & throw out baby with bathwater :(

Terry Bollinger

@vzn it's an interesting area, I agree. But the idea of entanglement in room-temp waves effects, via e.g. polarization... now that's the kind of little thread that a fellow named Bell once kept pulling on, and look what popped out. It needs more examination.

0celo7

@vzn maybe the baby should speak up

Secret

16:52

there's a tradeoff between hype and accuracy, thus one need to be careful not to misrepresent a research finding. Popsci and most media like to make catchy titles so people read them

Terry Bollinger

@0celo7 ??

Secret

but then, too little hype on the title bores laymens, so it is a balance

vzn

@0celo7 scientific data is inert/ inanimate and has no (intrinsic) voice.

ACuriousMind

@TerryBollinger We already have room temperature entanglement effects, e.g. SPDC crystals don't require any cooling as far as I know to produce entangled photon pairs.

0celo7

@vzn maybe that's part of the problerm

vzn

16:54

@0celo7 lol have no idea what youre talking about, do you?

0celo7

I resent the implication

Balarka Sen

@ACuriousMind I have forgotten the right definitions of pretty much everything. I think of a connection on a $G$-bundle $P$ as a horizontal $G$-invariant subbundle of $TP$.

The connection form is the one on $\Omega^1(P; \mathfrak{g})$ whose kernel is this chap, yes?

Secret

@0celo7 You cannot really blame them, scientists have been trained for milleana to write things impersonally, which is why science communication is a learning curve for most scientists

Terry Bollinger

@ACuriousMind what I can't help but feel is that in a few years we are going to look back and say "well DUH why didn't we notice how easy some extremely interesting quantum effects really are, including within the domain of biology. Our "viewing lenses" are still a bit off, I think, with that wave=quantum being an easy example.

ACuriousMind

@BalarkaSen That's the Ehresmann version of the connection and yes it's the kernel of the connection form

Secret

16:55

twitter does did a good job at promoting and sharing research with the general public though

MatheinBoulomenos

@ACuriousMind I don't really understand why we're working with 1-forms with values in the Lie algebra. In my (very limited) differential geometry experience, we worked with $\operatorname{GL}_n(\Bbb R)$-valued 1-forms in the context of connections

John Rennie

@TerryBollinger wave=quantum? What does that mean?

vzn

@Secret think slereah posted a funny meme pic about scientist vs guy holding copy of "brief history of time" by hawking, really wish could find it again, it scrolled by, lost to the ether history, thought it was hilarious/ cutting/ appropos etc

0celo7

@MatheinBoulomenos $\mathfrak{gl}$-valued

Christoffel symbols are matrix-valued 1-forms

ACuriousMind

@TerryBollinger I don't know what "wave=quantum" is supposed to mean. While quantum objects can show behaviour similar to classical waves, the two are not the same at all.

0celo7

16:57

the best hbar moments are when ACM attacks both sides of a discussion/debate

MatheinBoulomenos

@0celo7 thanks, I was thinking of the wrong things (like changing a connection)

Balarka Sen

Like, the matrix of forms that comes from changing coordinates and looking at what happens to the connection?

Emilio Pisanty

@Secret The current benchmark fast processes in the solid state are in the tens to hundreds of femtoseconds. Femtochemistry is in the scales of few to a few tens of femtoseconds, tracking nuclear motions inside gas-phase molecules, but nobody calls it ultrafast nowadays. The current edge is electronic processes in both atoms and molecules, and that goes from few femtoseconds to tens of attoseconds.

say

Terry Bollinger

@JohnRennie any classical wave dimmed down sufficiently becomes quantized, and guess what? At that point the quantum, e.g. a photon, begins following the path integral, the integral of all possible histories, which is very, very quantum.

Emilio Pisanty

Ultrafast electron dynamics in phenylalanine initiated by attosecond pulses

Secret

16:59

Ah I see, so it goes to the attoseconds

John Rennie

@TerryBollinger a classical wave is a coherent state of one or more photons. It is not a photon behaving like a wave.

Emilio Pisanty

frankly, if somebody is tagging as 'ultrafast' something that's longer than a picosecond, they'd better have some damn good science, 'cause they're rather stretching that label

@Secret well, depends exactly on what you mean by "goes"

Secret

"goes all the way to"

Terry Bollinger

You simply cannot create a classical wave without simultaneously creating a quantum level of that wave that accesses all possible histories to calculate its final destination. Remarkable, that, but also simple: Every classical wave has a quantum version.

Secret

Do we have imaging technology that can film things at that time scale yet?

Emilio Pisanty

17:00

@Secret what goes?

the effect's timescale, or your resolution in measuring it?

Secret

the effect's timescale

Emilio Pisanty

it's been about a year since the first paper that claimed a measurement resolution of <1as

John Rennie

@TerryBollinger I'm afraid I struggle to see any meaning to that statement.

ACuriousMind

@TerryBollinger You cannot create anything classical without creating something quantum because classical physics is a limit of quantum physics.

David Z

(btw the official chat session time is over, everyone enjoy your hats!)

Emilio Pisanty

17:01

the fastest phenomena you can realistically claim to see are no smaller than 10as

MatheinBoulomenos

which hats?

Emilio Pisanty

but the closer you get to that benchmark, the more controversial the measurements get

ACuriousMind

Also, you're mistaking the map for the territory: Just because the integration over histories correctly computes the amplitudes we find in nature doesn't necessarily imply that nature (or, indeed, "the wave") "accesses all possible histories".

There is no reason to believe nature needs to "do" the same computations as we do to figure out what's gonna happen.

0celo7

...@ACuriousMind are you John Duffield?

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 ...what?

Balarka Sen

17:03

lmao

vzn

@TerryBollinger pro scientists think the debate about QM vs classical (wave mechanics) is settled/ long over but think its not over! think long wave of reconsideration/ revision is in play.

Terry Bollinger

@JohnRennie heh! John, you quoted the very misunderstanding about which I'm complaining. You do not need a big mess of photons to get exactly the behavior of a well-defined coherent wave -- you only need one photon. One photon has to work, or it doesn't work at all.

Secret

@vzn Btw, also want to make a comment about microbiology given the recent news: It seems clear to me that the future may be one where microbes will drive most of the technologies. Also bacteria with conducting pilli are more widespread than we thought

0celo7

John loves that saying.

I’ve never heard anyone else say it.

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn that's a rubbish claim. Pretty much nobody thinks the debate is "settled".

ACuriousMind

17:04

@0celo7 Which one? The "map and territory"?

vzn

@Secret yeah seems like engr organisms is not too far off in future. less than decades.

Slereah

3

vzn

@Slereah luv it, FTW!!! =D

Terry Bollinger

Feynman's little non-math QED book does a very good job explaining the need for every quantized bit of a classical wave to "see" everything. This is not hypothetical, it's the foundation of QED.

Balarka Sen

@Slereah Where's "Astrophysics for people in a hurry" though?

Emilio Pisanty

17:05

@vzn example

Balarka Sen

It ain't science without Neil deGrasse Tyson

vzn

@Slereah ACM vs all the n00bs in here :P

Secret

@vzn there are already countless examples of synthetic bacteria from synthetic biology

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Yes. I’m not accusing you of being a sock, but you’re definitely John Duffield.

Emilio Pisanty

@Slereah also

Terry Bollinger

17:06

Later folks. Read QED for fun, it's distressingly math free but conceptually one of the best explanations of why quantum is everywhere and always has been. Bye!

Emilio Pisanty

(source: cyanide and happiness)

vzn

@EmilioPisanty have cited that great poll. its nice work & somewhat surprising how active minority views are. but notice the majority are copenhagenists. think that scientific literature balance does not reflect the major subjective differences.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 lol

@EmilioPisanty I personally suspect a large part of the people who voted "Copenhagen" there are just ones who don't really care and put down what they thought is the majority/standard view to not stand out :P

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn it's funny how you use the words "minority views" while talking about results that indicate that there is no such thing. The term might begin to make sense if there were one interpretation with >50% of responses. There isn't any.

Secret

mine is an agnostic version of objective collapse

vzn

17:10

@EmilioPisanty copenhagenists signficantly exceed other (minority) categories. trying to remember, is that called a plurality? whatever...

Secret

where I just say "i don't know what's the mechanism that lead to the projection in measurement is"

Slereah

I just think that Aristotle's physics was the correct one all alogn

MatheinBoulomenos

Aristotle? Pff, I think Thales was right. Everything is water

Emilio Pisanty

@ACuriousMind I tend to agree with that as regards the 'general-population' bulk of physicists, but this was at a conference titled “Fundamental Problems in Quantum Theory”. You don't go to one of those and not have a well-thought-out opinion

ACuriousMind

@EmilioPisanty Oh. Well...I got nothing, then :P

Slereah

17:12

@MatheinBoulomenos I think Heraclitus was right and all is fire!

Secret

actually, on that topic, can a projective measurement be approximated by an integral of unitary matrices that differs nonlinearly from one to the next over a time interval? e.g.

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn You can call CI a principal majority, if you really want. But the language of how "minority views" are "surprisingly" active is just plain inflammatory.

vzn

@EmilioPisanty copenhagenists exceed the next runnerup category by nearly 2x. ("information based/ information theoretical")

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn so?

CI is still at 40%.

Slereah

I think everyone who believes in Bohmian mechanics smells

Emilio Pisanty

17:13

In any case, back to your original claim

> pro scientists think the debate about QM vs classical (wave mechanics) is settled/ long over

vzn

@EmilioPisanty dont really know that many ppl who are "inflamed" over this topic. lubos motl? but hes inflamed over a lot of stuff eh?

Secret

Let $P$ be some interaction in the hamitonian that lead to projection of the quantum state. Can we have:
$$P = \int_0^t U(t) dt$$ where each $U$ are unitary matrices but the whole sequence of them are nonlinear?

Slereah

@vzn he is literally on fire

Secret

e.g. $U(1)$ and $U(2)$ are both unitary, but going from $U(1)$ to $U(2)$ is a nonlinear transformation

Emilio Pisanty

you've just been presented with evidence of center-stage scientific discussion by "pro scientists" who are talking about the debate in the present tense. That's not what "people think the debate is over" looks like.

enumaris

17:14

ahhhh

vzn

@Slereah lol! metrolyrics.com/girl-on-fire-lyrics-alicia-keys.html :P

Tanner Swett

And here I just came to ask a question about gallium.

Slereah

@vzn Buuuurn, baby, buuurn

enumaris

I don't think any pro scientist thinks classical mech is right over QM :O

Slereah

(Disco infernooo)

Emilio Pisanty

17:15

@Slereah one could even argue that he is fire itself

at least when it comes to online debates

enumaris

would be astounding to find such a scientist

Tanner Swett

I'm just a software developer, not a chemist, but I got some gallium online and melted it in a glass jar.

Slereah

Does Bohmian mechanics count as classical?

Balarka Sen

physics is bullshit, it's not true, it's bullshit, it's nawt. Oh hi @Slereah

Secret

@Slereah Bohmian people need to seriously work on the relativistic extension in order for people to take them seriously

vzn

17:16

@Slereah its like a limbo theory. living in the underworld. o_O

Tanner Swett

Now there's gallium stuck to the walls of the jar. Is there an easy way to recover that gallium without using chemicals I wouldn't be able to obtain easily?

Secret

@TannerSwett uh, you cannot just melt it back up by gently heating the glass jar?

or perhaps just warming with body temperature should be sufficient

Tanner Swett

I can do that, but there's still gallium stuck to the walls of the jar then.

The jar is wet with the gallium; the gallium stays stuck to the sides even when it's melted.

Emilio Pisanty

@TannerSwett maybe there's something on the Cody's Lab channel?

vzn

@enumaris there are a few, its a new emerging field. Couder/ Bush "pilot wave hydrodynamics" leading it so far.

Secret

17:20

reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/76kjr9/…

hmm, it seems you can froze it and rub it off

Tanner Swett

I'll check out Cody's Lab.

Emilio Pisanty

@TannerSwett freeze it, maybe?

enumaris

I think most scientists would prefer a Lorentz invariant theory over Bohmian pilot wave theory.

Emilio Pisanty

then peel it off

scrape it off

or something

Tanner Swett

Another thought is, I could fill the jar with hot water and then try to scrape the gallium off with a toothbrush.

Secret

17:22

@enumaris so there is no way to make bohmian lorentz invariant?

Tanner Swett

I've noticed that the gallium doesn't wet the glass while it's submerged in water.

Emilio Pisanty

Breaking Gallium

►

you should do this anyway

enumaris

I dunno if there's no way to do it, but it hasn't been done so far

afaik

Tanner Swett

Sounds like I've got a lot of stuff to try out. Thanks, everyone!

vzn

@enumaris think bohmian wave mechanics will turn out to be a provisional/ conceptual stepping stone.

enumaris

17:23

so until it's made to be Lorentz invariant, I think most scientists will pretty much ignore it...

vzn

@enumaris yep. ignore it until its unignorable/ too late. human nature :P

> First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Mahatma Gandhi

enumaris

uh...

Balarka Sen

lol

enumaris

well, I don't think it's really taught

it's like

a side-note

"oh yeah, there's this other theory that reproduces the predictions of non-relativistic QM, but it's inherently non local"

vzn

its barely even taught. its mostly swept under the rug

enumaris

17:26

yep

but I mean...being non-Lorentz invariant is kind of a big deal tho lol

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn that's because it isn't Lorentz covariant and it cannot produce a credible description of systems as complicated as the helium atom.

enumaris

it's like a theory suck from pre-1911 u know...

stuck*

vzn

@enumaris fully sympathize but think that is a pre-paradigm shift lens/ pov/ criteria applied to the problem.

Emilio Pisanty

de Broglie-Bohm enthusiasts have an open invitation to write in when they solve those problems

enumaris

I don't know about the helium atom thing

I just know it's non-local

Emilio Pisanty

17:28

@enumaris anything with more than two electrons

i.e. something where QM asks for a wave on a six-dimensional configuration space

vzn

@EmilioPisanty work in progress™ rome wasnt built in a day™

enumaris

but I think the non-locality could be fixable since AFAIK, the non-local "pilot waves" are not observables

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn That's just empty rhethoric.

enumaris

I think it's worth it to at least take a look at when you're not busy doing...uh...*cough* "real physics"

vzn

@EmilioPisanty @#%& empthy rhethoric? ... fighting words :P

enumaris

17:30

nobody responded to my multiprocessing question on either stackoverflow or pytorch forums...T_T

seems like this problem is kinda intractable :(

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn As I said, nobody is going to ignore bohmian mechanics if and when its proponents solve the problems that have already been pointed out with it.

Slereah

Let's make a conspiracy theory

Saying Rome was built in a day

I've read some papers on relativistic Bohm

But it's like eeeeh

a bit vague

enumaris

If I'm forced to use the hack workaround...my soul will hurt...

vzn

← thinks QM "nonlocality" is like a kind of "conspiracy theory"... o_O

Slereah

My favorite conspiracy theory is the guy who says that the middle ages didn't exist

New Chronology (Fomenko)

The New Chronology is a pseudohistorical theory which argues that the conventional chronology of Middle Eastern and European history is fundamentally flawed, and that events attributed to the civilizations of the Roman Empire, Ancient Greece and Ancient Egypt actually occurred during the Middle Ages, more than a thousand years later. The central concepts of the New Chronology are derived from the ideas of Russian scholar Nikolai Morozov (1854–1946), although work by French scholar Jean Hardouin (1646–1729) can be viewed as an earlier predecessor. However, the New Chronology is most commonly...

Emilio Pisanty

17:32

... aaaand, once the debate got going, vzn leaves the stage again.

vzn

@EmilioPisanty as you are well aware, am not averse to debate, but sometimes need someone with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin it can be rare esp among the highly educated.

enumaris

I need the tech wizzes help, I can't think of any other way to debug...D: @DavidZ @BernardoMeurer help me plz~~ Send me your energy!

Emilio Pisanty

@vzn I am well aware that you're not averse to shallow debate using overhyped terms and inflammatory language. However, I have yet to see you engage meaningfully, even once, in a serious debate about your claims once any of their issues are brought up. I think it's a shame, because you do bring up interesting topics, but then the only thing you do with them is scupper the discussion.

In this specific instance, you're (as you've done multiple times before) accusing this site and chatroom members of being close-minded. This comes immediately after direct evidence to the contrary was brought up and you cut the debate short.

so... who is close-minded again?

Secret

f******* mac hung up, I want to sleep!

enumaris

I need to spirit bomb this code

vzn

17:45

putting words in my mouth. will debate with anyone who does not constantly attack

enumaris

everyone send me ur energy! @_@

Secret

RPG mode: I think some time later someone or something will piss me off enough to once again cause me to unleash that dark magic

Emilio Pisanty

> Shoshin (初心) is a word from Zen Buddhism which means "beginner's mind". It refers to having an attitude of openness

But again, this is one in a long-running pattern of you accusing people both on chat and on main of unscientific behaviour

Sid

@enumaris Sends energy

enumaris

:D

Anonymous

17:48

@enumaris sucks energy

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H So, did you read it yet?

vzn

lol EP the real question is, the red pill or the blue pill? :P

enumaris

:(

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

IT WORKED

OMG

Anonymous

@enumaris Thank me :P

enumaris

no, you sucked away the energy

I thank @Sid

Balarka Sen

17:55

@enumaris youtube.com/watch?v=8JtqkmEibSs

Anonymous

Well giving you energy didn't work

Sid

@enumaris Deficient of Energy. Need Energy drink

Anonymous

My strategy was the right one

Anonymous

You were hyperactive...so you needed to drain some energy

Anonymous

lol

Balarka Sen

17:56

It's a DBZ reference d00ds

dont overanalyze it lmao

glS

Does anyone know why, for arbitrary matrices $B$ and $C$ of dimensions $M\times N$ and $N\times M$ respectively, $$\operatorname{Tr}\left(\frac{1}{z-BC}\right)=\operatorname{Tr}\left(\frac{1}{z‌-CB}\right)+\frac{M-N}{z}$$ holds? (or has ever seen something like this/can point to a reference or keyword)

Sir Cumference

Sigh, does anyone have advice to reduce the frequency of stupid mistakes on tests?

I've never had this problem before, but now no matter how hard I study to learn the concepts, I'm getting lots of marks off for stupid errors

Anonymous

@SirCumference Nah, those advices don't work

Sir Cumference

It's seriously driving me into a panic

enumaris

take longer?

Sir Cumference

17:59

@enumaris I genuinely do, and take all the time reviewing my solutions. But I miss mistakes like forgetting an exponent, thinking 8+6=12, etc.

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