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6:00 PM
@ACuriousMind Why was I suspended for an hour?
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind really? messed up? oh thats killer. where would one be without chat... is it known to be messed up ie tracked issue somewhere?
 
@ACuriousMind you didnt know that? now that you know, does that make you feel better?
you know, it was not your fault ;-)
 
vzn
@AccidentalFourierTransform so AFT, totally sympathize but wondering, why protect your anonymity so securely? afraid of some kind of negative consequences?
 
Because you said two rude and offensive things about another culture, incurring a total automatic suspension of one hour.
 
your arrows are confusing :-P
@vzn meh, no particular reason
I feel more comfortable being nameless
 
6:02 PM
@ACuriousMind I don't see how the second comment was rude, offensive, or directed at a culture.
 
otherwise I would have to measure my words, etc
 
@Blue Oh, OK. I live in HB Town. If you come to Sodepur I can just meet you at whatever place.
I am in Pune, actually. IISER.
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen Oh. Who invited you there?
 
Anonymous
Is it a workshop?
 
vzn
@AccidentalFourierTransform know the feeling. so are you enjoying the summer somehow? near the beach?
@AccidentalFourierTransform is that clip from a movie or tv show?
 
6:05 PM
@vzn summer is the best. I love being under the sun all day long. Until a couple of weeks ago, I was living in Barcelona, which has a lovely beach. RN Im @ my parents, who live in the middle of the country, so no beach
 
What happened in this place? So much for eating with bare hands?
 
@0celoñe7 That's not my problem.
 
@vzn the hunger games
 
vzn
@AccidentalFourierTransform yeah luv beach myself, got to go yr ago near sandiego, really great
 
6:05 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform Have you pondered whether that might be a positive thing? :P
 
(I also dislike eating with bare hands; but I do not use a cutlery in a formal way. Of course I have nothing to say to other people about that - I believe in bohemian hedonism. Anybody can do pretty much literally whatever that makes them happy)
 
@ACuriousMind positive for you, mr. party pooper
 
vzn
@AccidentalFourierTransform lol avoided that one. dont like the (social) darwinian undertone. (or more like theme!)... saw divergent tho, did you see those? thought not terrible... the star whats-her-name is hot, she played snowdens gf also in the oliver stone movie!
 
@Blue It's a workshop, yeah.
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen I see. Have a nice time. :)
 
6:07 PM
Meh, I like staying at home, honestly.
But yeah
 
Sid
@BalarkaSen Workshop on what, actually?
 
differential geometry
 
@vzn lol, I havent seen divergent but it looks bad too :-P
 
divergent is effin bad man
 
Sid
@AccidentalFourierTransform Read the book. It's much better(based on what my cousin tells me)
 
vzn
6:09 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform shailene woodley. dont mind payin to see her :)
 
@Sid yeah, I dont think that is gonna happen :-P I dont remember ever enjoying teen books
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform you should read Finnegans Wake
fantastic teenage book
 
You're so cliché, @BalarkaSen :P
 
i bask in joycean glory
 
I wouldnt consider Joyce a book for teens :-P
 
vzn
6:11 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform shes like the hollywood sequel to kristen stewart
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform I wouldn't consider Joyce a book
He's a human being!
 
not with that attitude
 
i wouldn't consider a book if it isn't Joyce
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen lol yeah doesnt measure up to that artistic dude youre always talking about
 
I just finished The Gambler, what a shitty book
 
6:12 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform Finnegans Wake is definitely a coming of age book. one of the major themes is a character doing two girls in a zoo
no ur shitty
Dostoyevsky is my jam
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen how about catcher in the rye? wasnt someone here liking it? Kaumudi? cant recall
 
The Gambler is overly dramatic though. read Notes from The Underground
 
oh, Crime and P. was great
the G., it was shitty
> Dostoyevsky completed the novella under a strict deadline to pay off gambling debts.
he wrote it for the money
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen a friend just went to russia and told me dostoyevsky spent quite a bit of time in a russian prison! was not aware of that! read crime+punishment in HS. aptly named! :P
 
Gambling is boring, read Player of Games instead.
 
6:14 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform Oh then we're friends
I agree The Gambler is rather bad
 
vzn
Raskolnikov. suffering from low self esteem in an era that hadnt yet discovered the concept... o_O :P
 
@vzn yes, Dostoyevsky had a fantastic life
I need to read Brothers Karamazov before I die
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen anything modern? try neuromancer by gibson which introduces the term Matrix :)
 
Joyce is modern...
if you want postmodern, William Burroughs bruh
 
@BalarkaSen I think he meant "modern" in the sense of "recent", not in the sense of the literary category
 
vzn
6:19 PM
@BalarkaSen edgy. havent read him. have read a little Hunter S Thompson
 
ah
Well, on the recent category, I have read Haruki Murakami
 
thats too mainstream, man
 
i read one of his novels when i was 7 or something and it effed me up
i guess. he's interesting tho
 
Sid
@BalarkaSen You were reading novels at 7? :o
 
rrreeallly inappropriate novels
 
Sid
6:21 PM
At that time, I was contemplating whether to watch Tom and Jerry or some other cartoon. :P
 
I love Tom&Jerry
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen are you aware of his criminal bio?
 
nothing wrong with that man
@vzn That he killed his wife? Sure
that's common knowledge
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen yes but also happened ¾ century ago...
 
It was an accident (he was high out of the galaxy on morphine and his wife was on amphetamines and they decided to do a Bill Tell routine), but of course, Burroughs denies existence of accidents
 
vzn
6:24 PM
@BalarkaSen actually there was a vaguely similar story in the news lately except wife vs husband and involving youtube viral video attempt (sign of the times) cnn.com/2017/06/29/us/fatal-youtube-stunt/index.html
@BalarkaSen sounds a little Jungian
 
right
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen re "Beats"... any opinion on Kerouac? have a few of his books but havent gotten to them yet
 
I haven't actually read Jack Kerouac. I want to read "On the Road" at some point
I actually know Burroughs the most out of all three of the Beats.
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen so how did you learn english so young? & what triggered you to read advanced novels at such a young age?
 
vOv
we have lots of books in the shelves
curiosity kills cats
 
vzn
6:31 PM
lol had not seen that emoticon before, but fits quite aptly in this room ofc
@BalarkaSen so your parent(s) read/ spk english? highly educated?
 
idt being able to read or speak english has anything to do with being highly educated
 
vzn
@BalarkaSen you were born/ raised in india right? english presumably not so common there esp a few decades ago... presumably some story there. but maybe youre not a storyteller at heart (but clearly admire/ enjoy it in others)...
 
Anonymous
@vzn English is taught here at a very young age (in urban areas atleast). Probably from birth itself. Also in playschool, nursery, and so on...
 
Anonymous
It is a common language for whole of India
 
Anonymous
Alongside we also learn a regional language
 
vzn
6:35 PM
@Blue huh ok was not aware. but anyway BS reading novels at age 7 is still remarkable (as Sid already pointed out)
 
Sid
Usually with a higher stress on English
 
Anonymous
@vzn I remember reading Famous Five, Noddy , Secret Seven at age of 7-8. But yeah, not such difficult ones as Balarka :P
 
vzn
@Blue Balarka is a bit of a man of a mystery. think he used to be more communicative when 1st mtging him long ago but somethings chgd, oh well :|
 
Anonymous
I don't know. Maybe Haruki Murakami's novels are comprehensible for a 7 year kid.
 
Anonymous
I never read them myself
 
6:37 PM
I would not recommend Murakami to a 7 year old kid
I fell kind of sick after reading 1Q84, but maybe that's irrelevant
 
vzn
as far as edgy, how about Orwell or Huxley? read huxley myself, find him uncannily prescient. he also had a remarkable book on peyote mescaline, found that yrs ago... supposedly the Doors named themselves after his book title. the Doors of Perception...
 
of course i appreciated (in whatever sense of appreciation) it much later
damn internet
 
@vzn yeah.
 
@vzn Oh man I want to read both of them at some point. I need more time....
 
vzn
@Mostafa what kind of work
 
6:41 PM
@ACuriousMind So do you think premarital sex is not a sin?
@vzn Just grad work
 
vzn
@Mostafa working on masters? EE? physics?
 
@vzn EE masters
 
vzn
@Mostafa trying to recall, did we discuss this? photonics?
 
hello
 
@vzn studying physics remains a dream for me as of today
@heather Hi
 
6:43 PM
@vzn alduous huxley, right? brave new world?
that's on my list, along with orwell.
 
@vzn I did love On the Road, and it is a book for teens ;-P
 
@BalarkaSen I think it's nice to read Brave New World and 1984 right after each other to see two completely different dystopias in contrast
 
fahrenheit 451 is good
 
@ACuriousMind Gotcha
 
@Mostafa I don't subscribe to the concept of "sin" (nor that of "marriage", come to think of it)
 
vzn
6:44 PM
@heather yeah amazing book, made into a movie. in some ways at least as prescient as 1984 but not as famous, feel undeservedly so. huxley has the idea of a drug soma... o_O
 
@ACuriousMind Lol
 
Gnnnnww I either need to read all the classics to catch up with everyone or read further underground books nobody gives a shit about
 
@vzn photonics, yeah. But some ideas may be applicable to other frequencies too.... It's ultimately traditional fields/waves EE
 
to be honest, i don't much like dystopian literature.
 
and i effin need more time damnit
 
6:45 PM
the giver is really the only dystopian book I've liked.
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind exactly. dystopias for strangely different reasons
 
lois lowry is a good author.
i spent some time at the end of the school year reading classics - quite interesting to see what people have thought is worth reading.
 
vzn
@heather good movie. which reminds me, has anyone heard of "13 reasons why"? geez thats some wild stuff circulating, ("among younger generation these days"...) crazy
 
@heather Then go read Iain M- Banks, one of the lone utopians among the dark and edgy recent Sci Fi and fantasy writers
 
@vzn i've heard of it, not seen it. generally aware of what it's about.
 
6:47 PM
I didnt like 1948, but Animal Farm is very enjoyable IMO
 
@heather the album "Diamond Dogs" is my jam
 
@ACuriousMind hmm, never heard of him.
 
vzn
@Mostafa were you working on detectors or something? fiber optics? improved multiplexing?
 
swastika-shaped transistors?
 
vzn
@heather it got turned into a netflix series and the teenagers went and binge-watched it before parents even had any idea what was going on, yikes. spking from personal experience! o_O (selena gomez producer)
 
6:48 PM
@ACuriousMind Doesn't quite clarify if you're an unsocial bot or a hedonist hippie
 
@vzn yeah, i know. notes about "counseling" went out in emails to parents/students about it at my school.
 
Sid
@vzn That is a TV series that I had heard of once..
 
AH. Here's a fantastic recent underground book I read that I am sure nobody here gives a shit about
"Consumed", David Cronenberg
 
@vzn I don't know what I'm working on.
 
Made me feel like throwing up but what a book
I will now peacefully slither back to my underground after successfully being able to spite y'all for knowing the classics before me
 
6:52 PM
@BalarkaSen Did you read that MSE post?
 
which
 
On the second fundamental form.
 
nope
 
@BalarkaSen Then it sounded as intended ;)
 
The result relies on a deep theorem on convex sets...convexity is local.
 
6:53 PM
isee.jpeg
 
You only need local supporting hyperplanes to conclude convexity.
Then the result follows from the interpretation of the SFF as the "second order Taylor term" for the surface.
Positive definite SFF means the surface curves away from the tangent planes, locally.
 
OH GOD
am i reading things right? Consumed is going to be TV Series-e-fied
 
Yes?
 
sorry that was unrelated
Cronenberg may direct!!!
 
7:00 PM
@BalarkaSen In related news, Hormander does have boundary regularity for elliptic pseudos...still completely unreadable though.
 
Sid
@Mostafa That is a report from 5 years back when we had a Govt. which knew basically nothing about India. The situation has changed quite a bit in the last 3 years.
 
Anonymous
@Mostafa That's was true. But things are slowly changing for the better.
 
@EmilioPisanty paging MMA support...
 
7:16 PM
@Sid @Blue I think things like poverty in India are totally different from their counterparts in western cultures. For example, I think in Indian culture, poverty is not an inherently bad thing as it's in western cultures; a poor person is not generally considered a miserable person, as he is in western cultures. The poverty in an Indian village is inherently different from the poverty in newyork.
That's like a way of life (maybe even a better way of life. At least traditionally)
Am I right? @Blue @Sid
 
Sid
I wouldn't say poverty is a way of life around these parts. I will only say that poor people like complaining about their condition yet they don't have the zeal to improve their conditions by themselves.
 
Anonymous
@Mostafa "a poor person is not generally considered a miserable person, as he is in western cultures"...that's definitely not true. Poor people are usually looked down upon by most people. That's human nature almost everywhere on the planet. There are obviously exceptions.
 
Anonymous
No one...I repeat no one wants to be poor
 
Sid
Also, it sort of depends on what you call "poor people". Poverty is differently defined in different countries. If we put USA's poverty-line in India, almost 50% (maybe even more) Indians would be poor.
 
Anonymous
Even in a place like a rural village where almost everyone is poor there is a continuous competition of who can earn the most
 
Anonymous
7:23 PM
Like parents will boast that their child earns more than their neighbor's child
 
People actually do that?
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 Yes. That is more prevalent among the poorer sections of the society
 
@Blue I had Indian mystical teachings in mind....
 
Sid
the boasting part? Every single one of them.
@Mostafa Mystical teachings?
 
@Sid That's of the order of earning a million Rupees per year
 
7:25 PM
@Sid mystical hinduism for example
 
Sid
@Mostafa I still don't get you. Does it tell people to remain poor?
 
@Sid No. but it's complicated.
 
Sid
@Mostafa What does it tell then?
 
@Mostafa when you say "mystical hinduism", do you mean something actually Indian, or some new age Western thing that pretends to be Indian?
 
@Mithrandir24601 No the original ancient teachings
 
7:30 PM
some day I'll go to Goa and abuse psychotropics
 
Anonymous
lol...I don't think even 0.0001 percent of the Indian population has ever read any of the Vedas or the Gita (which contain the so called mystical teachings)
 
Sid
Yep. ^
 
@ACuriousMind you don't subscribe to the notion of marriage?
 
@Sid I mean "poverty" is a much deeper concept in Indian mysticisms
 
Your do you get the weekly newsletter then?
 
7:32 PM
@Blue Yeah but today's culture of India is no doubt affected by them to a great extent
 
Also, how do you expect people to raise children?
 
@Mostafa Fairly young haha
 
ACM will never get married
 
Hi @vzn
 
> It's Adam and Eve, not Florence and the machine
 
7:33 PM
@AccidentalFourierTransform and I won't eat shellfish, but I still "subscribe" to it's existence.
 
I dont, Im solipsistic
 
@BalarkaSen just yesterday evening a lovely Russian lady at the tango studio told me she could never finish it.
 
@Avantgarde see this
 
@Mostafa Interesting. I never knew
 
Anonymous
@Mostafa I don't really think so. If it was, we wouldn't have any more corruption or crime in our country. By "affected" you could just say that those mystical teachings exist in kid's story books as moral lessons. Nothing more than that.
 
Sid
7:35 PM
@Mostafa If you are talking about the rishis who used to meditate in the forest to gain higher spiritual powers, etc.. then, I would say that, that thing isn't practised anymore. People read that, marvel at them and then forget.
You could call them "poor" because they would renounce everything and go to the forest.
 
what do you mean? I'm in a forest right now, using the tree leaves as WiFi hotspot
3
 
Anonymous
lol :D
 
Sid
@Avantgarde You are in a pretty bad place minus the Wifi hotspot. :P
 
It's not that simple...
but we are clearly not experts on these matters.
The culture of India refers collectively to the thousands of distinct and unique cultures of all religions and communities present in India. India's languages, religions, dance, music, architecture, food, and customs differ from place to place within the country. The Indian culture, often labeled as an amalgamation of several cultures, spans across the Indian subcontinent and has been influenced by a history that is several millenniums old. Many elements of India's diverse cultures, such as Indian religions, Indian philosophy and Indian cuisine, have had a profound impact across the world. ��2...
The Upanishads (Sanskrit: Upaniṣad; IPA: [ʊpən̪ɪʂəd̪]) are a collection of ancient Sanskrit texts that contain some of the central philosophical concepts of Hinduism, some of which are shared with Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. They are among the most important literature in the history of Indian religions and culture. The Upanishads played an important role in the development of spiritual ideas in ancient India, and they marked a transition from Vedic ritualism to new ideas and institutions. Early Upanishads are considered by Hindus as part of their scriptures (śruti) that discuss the nature...
 
Anonymous
@Mostafa Not all teachings of Hinduism are good btw. Take the Sati culture for example.
 
user228700
7:46 PM
@BalarkaSen Oh, one of my friends studies there!
 
Dammmmn I missed that moment!!!!
just 1 second late
 
What's up with the caste system
is that religious or secular?
 
user228700
@BalarkaSen Wait, why is that an or?
 
Sid
@0celoñe7 Social thingy. Inside a religion, the people are divided into certain castes.
In older times, the caste of a person was on basis of their occupation. However, that has changed in the modern times with people just being the caste they were born with. It has also led to a very controversial thing around these parts, namely reservation.
 
Anonymous
Yeah, reservation is one of the greatest social evils in the modern times...
 
user228700
7:54 PM
@0celoñe7 See here.
 
@Kaumudi.H The "jokes"/references are pretty cringeworthy
But I will watch it while matlab is installing...
I probably know this anyway...
 
user228700
@0celoñe7 Jesus Christ, man, it's remarkable, really, just how well you're able to find negative aspects to most things.
 
user228700
Sure. OK.
 
@Kaumudi.H What?
 
Jul 3 at 10:22, by AccidentalFourierTransform
if you install Matlab and get a virus, then you got two viruses
 
7:59 PM
@Mostafa I like Matlab.
 
user228700
@0celoñe7 Nvm.
 
@0celoñe7 Then you like viruses
 
@Kaumudi.H Uh, ok?
@Mostafa Fine.
 
(btw, I like matlab too)
 
Anonymous
I use the Matlab online version nowadays
 
Anonymous
8:01 PM
No need to download anymore
 
@Blue and no way to pirate it anymore
 
Anonymous
@Mostafa Ugh...don't remind me. I had to spend around 6 hours to get rid of that Trojan
 
@Blue lol
 
@Kaumudi.H When was the caste system ended or is it still going on?
I thought it was ended.
 
user228700
Yes, these days, it's severely looked down upon to discriminate based on the caste system.
 
8:04 PM
@Kaumudi.H Legally and socially?
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 The caste system has not ended yet (officially). Earlier it was harmful for the lower caste people. Now it is harmful for all the upper caste people.
 
@Blue How so?
 
user228700
@0celoñe7 Heh, I'm not sure about the legal aspect of it but socially, yes, absolutely.
 
@Kaumudi.H Until when was it acceptable?
 
@DanielSank Uh, I think that I don't subscribe means I don't get the weekly newsletter?
 
8:06 PM
The caste system in India is the paradigmatic ethnographic example of caste. It has origins in ancient India, and was transformed by various ruling elites in medieval, early-modern, and modern India, especially the Mughal Empire and the British Raj. It is today the basis of educational and job reservations in India. It consists of two different concepts, varna and jati, which may be regarded as different levels of analysis of this system. The caste system as it exists today is thought to be the result of developments during the collapse of the Mughal era and the British colonial regime in India...
 
Sid
@0celoñe7 Let me give you an example of your favourite topic(JEE). If you belong to lower caste, you qualify with at least 27/360. If you belong to higher caste, you need at least 81/360.
 
@Sid Please don't...
No matter what I say, someone will flag...
@Sid Ah, so affirmative action.
We have similar stuff in America, and some famous court cases about it.
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 In short: Politicians gain votes by promising the lower caste people right to jobs and right to seats in elite educational institutions irrespective of whether they are able enough or not. This is called "reservation". So even if the general caste people work hard (or are poor) they don't get those rights. Nowadays a majority of the lower caste guys are quite rich and lead a lavish life and enjoy the perks of reservation without having to work hard.
 
PSA: Due to a bug in the task that schedules the handling of flags, a bunch of posts that should have been enqueued over the last day or so has just hit the review queues in one go. Please go and review! (if you already reviewed today and thought the queues were unusually empty, this is the reason)
 
@Blue How does being lower caste and rich work?
 
8:11 PM
Caste is a form of social stratification characterized by endogamy, hereditary transmission of a lifestyle which often includes an occupation, status in a hierarchy, and customary social interaction and exclusion. Although caste systems exist in various regions, its paradigmatic ethnographic example is the division of Indian society into rigid social groups, with roots in India's ancient history and persisting until today. However, the economic significance of the caste system in India has been declining as a result of urbanization and affirmative action programs. A subject of much scholarship...
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 In the modern times one's caste and one's wealth have no direct correlation.
 
Anonymous
A lower caste guy can be a millionaire
 
@Blue I feel you should qualify whether that's a widely accepted and uncontroversial viewpoint or a hotly contested and debated issue.
 
Anonymous
A upper caste guy can be a beggar
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind You can ask the other Indian people here for confirmation. I'm sure they'll agree with my viewpoint
 
Anonymous
8:12 PM
Yes, it is a "widely accepted" viewpoint
 
@TheRaidersofLasVegas Why do you keep posting these articles as oneboxes? It disrupts the flow of conversation and I trust that everyone here is able to type the relevant keywords inot Wiki themselves
 
Sid
@ACuriousMind Actually, it is not as simple as blue said. While lower caste people who are poor also get benefited by reservation, what is visible to people is their friend(s) getting seats in some college despite getting lesser marks than them despite being economically more stable
 
Anonymous
@Sid Also applies to government jobs
 
Anonymous
Lower caste people get government jobs much more easily
 
I don't get it. If caste has no bearing on wealth, who cares?
@Kaumudi.H And this seems wrong, then.
 
8:16 PM
@Blue Well, that would tell me nothing because they could just belong to the same political faction as you. For a hyperbolic analogy, consider a Marxist telling you about the economy - he'll tell you all about how the capitalists oppress the workers, and that will be a fact for him, and he'll state it in much the same conviction as you did.
Other Marxists will agree with him these are "facts". But a laissez-faire libertarian will of course not agree that the oppression of workers is a fact. So instead of asking whether it is true or not, I asked you whether it is a contested issue or not.
 
Sid
@0celoñe7 Who cares about what?
 
Because while the Marxists will not budge on the idea that workers' oppression is true, they can nevertheless also state the fact that there are many who deny that, but asking the Marxist's Marxist friends whether they agree with him is a pretty useless thing to do.
 
@Sid Caste.
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 Politicians
 
@Blue Why?
 
Sid
8:17 PM
@0celoñe7 Our great old politicians. They are in the narrow mindset that this would give them votes
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 To gain votes from the lower caste people.
 
Are there more lower caste people?
 
Sid
@0celoñe7 Yep. And lots of them.
 
Ok, that makes more sense then.
 
8:18 PM
The numbers are staggering
Let's drop this please
 
Sid
@TheRaidersofLasVegas Do you have the numbers? I don't think it was documented anywhere..
 
@TheRaidersofLasVegas What?
 
Poverty is rarely "documented."
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind Ok I get it. Yes, it is a widely debated issue and an accepted social evil among members of all castes. However since the reserved castes benefit from it they wouldn't raise their voice against it. I could point you to a lot of news articles and quora posts regarding the same. Start here: quora.com/topic/Reservation-in-India
 
Sid
@Blue I don't think the quora posts would be any more valid than my or your opinion because of the analogy that ACM drew up. Most quora members are of General Caste.
 
Anonymous
8:24 PM
@Sid Well, obviously. The ones who are benefiting wouldn't talk against it. I mentioned that already.
 
@Blue Ah, see, the suspicion I can't shake is that "they just don't raise their voice against it because they benefit from it" is a statement akin to the Marxist claiming the laissez-faire libertarian won't admit the oppression of workers because he owns a factory and therefore profits from the oppression, but is secretly very well aware of the existence of oppression.
 
Of course, that is a possibility. However I've very rarely seen a matter of public policy where one side was made up entirely out of dishonest strategists who didn't actually believe what they said they believed.
 
ok, finally installed matlab
now I can't find where it is
wonderful
 
However, I have very often seen the accusation that the other side is entirely made out of such dishonest strategists :P
 
Anonymous
8:30 PM
@ACuriousMind I get it. I don't really know how to remove your suspicion. I can just say that getting jobs and and educational seats easily just due to a birth tag is not fair by any stretch of logic (more so when the caste system has no direct correlation with wealth). I now leave it upto you to decide.
 
Sid
@ACuriousMind Your point is valid. However, the concern among people here is that although the Govt. wants oppressed people to be empowered with jobs/ higher education opportunities, etc., the people who really benefit from this are usually financially well-off people from a lower caste. For example, no one would be against income-based reservation if that happened.
 
@Blue Oh, I wouldn't dream of judging the fairness of the current system from what little I know. All I wanted to find out (and now have a slightly better idea about, thanks!) was how controversial this issue is.
@Sid No one would be against income-based reservation? If that is true I think that India is considerably more socialist than most Western countries ;)
 
Sid
@ACuriousMind Well, no one in the sense that people would much prefer that than caste-based reservation
 
Anonymous
Yeah, any sane person would support need-based reservation over caste-based reservation.
 
Anonymous
But then, we have greedy people everywhere
 
8:39 PM
^
That is the heart of the problem
 
@Blue Casting your own viewpoint as "sane" (and therefore implicitly that of those disagreeing as "insane") is a common tactic that rarely does much good except alienate those you disagree with. (I am again just commenting on the form, and not on whether what you say is true or not, since I'm not sure how I would assess that)
 
whoa boy, you weren't kidding about the review queues.
 
@ACuriousMind Do you want to talk with me or are you still mad?
 
@heather I wouldn't have said anything if it had been just a minor fluke (imagine how it must look on the busier sites like math.SE or ::shudder:: SO!) :P
 
@ACuriousMind SO scares the heck out of me, review queues especially
I go over there when I get discouraged about the number of reviews.
how do you flag link-only answers again?
nvm, i realized it'd be best to flag as NAA
(question wasn't asking for resources)
 
8:44 PM
@0celoñe7 You can talk to me as usual :P
@heather VLQ or NAA, with an unimportant preference for NAA.
 
@ACuriousMind So you ignoring me is a dice roll?
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind This isn't something grey. It's black and white. For example if I say that "Any sane person would NOT support cold-blooded murder of a young child", would you still still say the same? Caste-based reservation is a clear cut social evil. Full stop.
 
@0celoñe7 If I ignored you I either didn't see what you said or I had nothing to say about it, what do you think I have ignored?
 
A moral relativist would not agree @Blue
 
Please stop with the "social evil" speech.
 
8:47 PM
@ACuriousMind Idk, I just think a quick "idk" is preferable to no answer if you really have no idea.
 
Anonymous
@0celoñe7 Well. Technically you could even say that murder is not a crime. But let's not go into that...
 
@Blue Oh, but I have already found several people who disagree with you that seem comparatively sane to me (in the sense that they form coherent sentences and do not seem to hold uncommon delusions). And likening those you disagree with to despicable criminals is also a very common tactic :P
 
Leave the "social evil" speeches to the politicians :-)
 
@TheRaidersofLasVegas What has got you so worked up?
 
Greedy people
 
Anonymous
8:51 PM
@ACuriousMind "found several people"...who?
 
@0celoñe7 I know you think that. I haven't ignored you in any deliberate fashion, I promise.
@Blue There are several posts not agreeing with the absolute evil of the reservation system on the very Quora search you linked.
 
Anonymous
@ACuriousMind Could you please link a couple of such posts?
 
And, as I said, I'm not really prepared to argue who here is right - for that I don't know enough by far. I'm mostly commenting on the fact that the way you present your side uses many typical tactics that are designed to delegitimize your opponents without actually engaging their arguments.
 
Poor people killing each other over caste @0celoñe7
 
People kill each other over this?
 
Anonymous
8:56 PM
@ACuriousMind The problem here is that I haven't found a single opponent who thinks that caste based reservation is completely fair. (till date)
 
29 mins ago, by The Raiders of Las Vegas
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/15/india-caste-system-70-anni‌​versary-independence-day-untouchables
 
@Blue I think "the current implementation of caste-based reservation is completely fair" and "caste-based reservation is a fundamentally good idea" are two very different viewpoints.
You were claiming that no sane person would not say that caste-based reservation is complete and utter evil. But saying it's evil is very different from being able to admit that the current system has problems that need fixing.
To use my analogy again, people can be Marxist and still think the Soviet Union wasn't such a great idea :P
That doesn't mean they agree Marxism is evil.
 

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