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21:00
heh
ok
it also still can't account for strong forces which like an amorphous solid awaiting a greater ordering could completely flip the whole model.
since they are "stronger"
i have to be frank, I've come across a model that marries current physics view of reality with religious views.
by using what String Theory already posited: multiple dimensions of time.
It would also account for the source of anti-particles or at least the differentiation of...
antoher completely mystery to the current model of the cosmos.
think on it, multiple dimensions of time WOULD completely solve the apparent disparity between religious timelines and evolutionary
@theDoctor String theory does not posit multiple dimensions of time, and nothing of what you say has any basis in accepted physics.
@Qmechanic If you feel strongly about it, go ahead
String theory posits multiple dimensions over the 3+1 used in SR. and not all of those are spatial, in my formulation. If you don't want to call it time, fine.
I'm just going to leave this here...math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html
You're being belligerent though, not scientific because it wouldn't matter to the main point, would it?
21:06
I have no idea what your main point is, frankly.
(about the canonical version of String Theory). And science doesn't depend on "accepted physics".
Do understand any of the points I've mentioned? Multiple dimensions of time, marrying religious and scientific views of reality, etc.?
That the "accepted physics" has no explaination for a lot of important things it's applications depend on.
@theDoctor Both alpha and gamma decay are perfectly well-explained within our current theories of nuclear physics.
Oh really, shoot me an explanation. Becuase my college professor would say otherwise i believe.
I'm all ears!
I'm not sure what sort of "explanation" you're looking for. E.g. gamma radiation just results from an atom in an excited state dropping to a lower energy level, emitting a photon in the process.
That's your explaination?!?
21:11
alpha decay is just quantum tunnelling
its well understood in the context of QM
And please tell, how does an atom get "excited" and then drop the excitement?
alpha decay is not "just quantum tunneling"
Well, because it got the energy from somewhere else prior to that - the excited state is often the product of another alpha/beta decay
right it got the energy from somewhere else, but then it DECAYED. And why did it decay?
21:12
It's just a multiparticle system in the linear sigma model of strong interaction
It's fairly shit
so you believe they're accidental?
i.e. products of a chaotic-dynamical system...?
no.
Just that it's shit.
@theDoctor Because it could. Unless the transition is forbidden by some conservation law, it has a quantum-mechanical probability to occur.
Because it can, and if you wait long enough the probability that it will approaches one
from above or from below?
21:14
If you want to go with mysteries of physics maybe don't go with nuclear decay
It's a fairly poor example
If you wait long enough, the probability that the universe will disappear approaches one, also. Is that a good enough explaination for it's decay?
Well it doesn't, for a start
There is no "probability that the universe will disappear".
If the objection goes to the basic indeterminism of quantum mechanics...well, tough shit
2nd law of thermodynamics is a probabilistic model
21:15
the wawe function of the universe is static in the limit of large quantum numbers
that's what i'm saying @Semiclassical: there isn't indeterminism.
And, yeah, if your problem is that there is no "cause" of the decay, then your issue is not with the specific case of the decay, but with the general probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics.
At an experimental level, the indeterminism of quantum mechanics is well established
also who cares really
Moreover, even if there is somehow a hidden determinism behind it
21:16
@Semiclassical: your argument is wrong. @slereah: the reason to care is that it could open a whole new avenue of quantum chemistry.
I electromagnetically disagree
How much physics do you actually know
@AccidentalFourierTransform Stop trolling :P
@theDoctor yeah, only there's a difference between a numbers that's so small, I can't even write it down and a number that's $\sim 10^{-5}$ (arbitrarily picking a number, I know, but it's to demonstrate a point)
Because it's a working model
Also you should know it before you disagree with it
21:17
a model that gives useful predictions is a good model
Yes, that's literally all that is asked of physical models
however, my argument is that your numbers assume a classical view of space-time, yes?
even if relativistic
what
no, semiclassical
What is that supposed to mean
21:19
and its not an accident
probabilities are not "useful predications" if you want quantum chemistry and beter materials sicnece.
@theDoctor Either start making sense and engaging with what people actually tell you or stop talking about this, please.
please, read our usernames
semiclassical
a curious mind
slereah
(what ever that means)
no, its a capital I
21:20
Tell that to a working materials scientist or quatum chemist and they'll get a good laugh
Is it?
i never knew
right, you guys are like talking to dinosaurs.
raaaaaaaaaar
Yes, it is like we are talking to dinosaurs
21:21
Yep, we're fearsome rulers of the earth that will be resurrected in the future to live in a theme park.
@theDoctor Are you aware that if you have a large enough sample, probabilities turn into things like 'rates' and 'average numbers'? (exactly what depends on context...)
i'm makignn perfectly good sense, I just can't type worth a darn sometimes.
@Mithrandir24601: yes, I am well aware of that. But that doesn't mean that there aren't useful semi-deterministic air particles bouncing around at the small scale.
i hesitate saying small, because my argument argues for a scale-free system.
are you John Duffield?
that our scale is evolutionary, not an absolute feature of the universe.
i am not duffield.
thing is, if you've got an actual way to make useful predictions about materials science or quantum chemistry
21:23
i have an actual way to start re-ordering atomic-level system, throwing out the classical periodic table and starting with a stronger foundation than a simple integer counting scheme.
Then put up or shut up. As it stands, the 'probabilistic' methods you rail against are pretty damn useful
The fact that I'm having this conversation on my iPhone is implicit testimony to that
I think it's time to set this line of conversation aside.
3
oh man, I wanted to know who this fat woman was...
and why would she want to control me
(thats kinda my fetish, so that you know)
@AccidentalFourierTransform Just move on
21:27
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
so, where were we?
ah, yes: I was so happy that my master's thesis had exactly 69 references
but my adviser made me add one more :-(
so I have to remove one now
@AccidentalFourierTransform Mine had a mere 52 :/
@AccidentalFourierTransform Lol
@AccidentalFourierTransform It's a bit late now :P
its never too late mate
21:31
Although there's the essay I'm currently working on and the project report at the end of summer...
I'm at 17, but it's not really close to finished.
that is what she said
@AccidentalFourierTransform Well... Y'know, it's finished, handed in, marked and I got my degree half a year and one day ago
you can always retract it
@AccidentalFourierTransform Nope. I'm quite happy with how it went :)
21:37
what happened? did you find true love?
you met your soul-mate?
No, but it got me into a PhD and may have got me a side project during my PhD (although that bit's still only at the "in principle, I'm interested" stage) :)
in general, is it better to have sugar-coated horse manure or brutal honesty?
Man, cold pizza is the best thing in the universe
gross
21:40
I dont like pizza
or challengers
@theDoctor Brutal honesty. No question
excellent.
the sugar coated stuff taste good for awhile...
but the horse manure tastes good forever
Ohoo! please elabortate.
elaborate.
21:43
Who the hell are you?
horses are good people
i'm a theoretician and theologian, but maybe you weren't asking me.
horses are not people. perhaps you're thinking of Mr. Ed.
of course horses can be people
its like, one of the basic human rights
ohh, riight.
cows, on the other hand, screw them
21:49
are you a bot from the Cyc database?
trying to control us and everything
oh my gosh, if other dimensions exist, you can't rule out the possibility of other-dimensional control points.
same with quantum tunneling
Jung was right, in my no so humble experience.
@theDoctor What does it even mean to be a theoretician? Theoretician of what?
jung posited that there was a collective consciousness.
in my case of understanding the universe.
21:53
@AccidentalFourierTransform Hey do you want to hear a recording of my farting into a pizza box?
i would call it science, but that seems to be a controlled field, fenced in by the orthodoxy.
@BernardoMeurer no, but thanks for asking
maybe, just maybe, I need to lead you guys (and gals, if there are any left).
it's starting to look like it.....
@AccidentalFourierTransform You're very welcome
ummhmm.
21:54
@theDoctor What does being a theoretician of science mean?
it means that you are building models of the universe... what you got?
farting in a pizza box?
@theDoctor As I've already said, we're not going to continue this line of conversation. Drop it.
That's my full time job
I was hoping that welsome turned into an awesome instead of a welcome
21:55
why are you telling me and not the farter?
I fart into yoghurt bowls on the side too
@DavidZ: wait, where did you even say that anyway?
what's the difference?
(redacted)
21:56
thought so.
well let's see: farting into yoghurt bowls, pizza boxes...
@theDoctor What makes you think you're qualified to lead anything?
Also, aren't ship led by the pastor?
Isn't you leading us what would make us sheep?
no, because i'll show you the model with out arcane language, hand-waving, priesthoods....
What do you mean by hand-waving? Maths?
@BernardoMeurer that goes for you too, let's just move on
@DavidZ Oh come on, please let me have a little fun
Just five more minutes
21:59
No
Not now, anyway
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepl‌​easepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
hand-waving: "it just works!"
@DavidZ Dammit, okay
"we have a model and it works."
22:00
but do we? BUT DO WE?
EXACTLY.
hahahahahahahaha
@AccidentalFourierTransform I love you
MUHAhahahahahah
ha
EXACTLY sounds an awful lot like NSA amirite?
22:02
HIDE YO' KIDS HIDE YO' WIFE
here it comes, more strife.
it's not gamma decay anyway, it's gamma radiation and it decays only if you don't contain it.
@DavidZ This is the hardest thing I have had to do in my life
Maybe the practice will help
(the answer was no)
@DavidZ ::hands shaking::
22:07
:: eye twitching ::
Gamow radiation
@dmckee no, but wikipedia does mention the connection
nice one
though not quite as ungrammatical as your version ;-)
also, camino isn't really a highway
more footpath than anything else
back in its original context it would've applied to trails that could support wagons and horses
so... yeah, I guess a highway, back in the 1500s?
ok sleepy time for me
nice to meet you mr. theDoctor
farewell
@AccidentalFourierTransform See ya man
22:21
I missed the drama
@JaimeGallego Ever since @JohnDuffield left this hasn't been the same
I'm too young here to know about the tales of JD.
Or CW, for that matter.
AFAIK, Duffield had some personal theories which weren't well received by PSE?
Oh, that reminds me, I just watched that video of the naked crackpot bashing Emilio and John.
22:41
@JaimeGallego oh god, can we please not talk about that again?
Quantum woo is a bit of a berserk button for me. I'm a bit paranoid that my name may make me seem more sympathetic to such things than I am
@JaimeGallego if you want to dig into that history, JD's posts are still up and visible
@Semiclassical I see nothing wrong with semiclassics
guys
is the past tense of show showed?
my English gave out suddenly
22:45
show-showed-shown
It sounds right to me.
I showed you a printout earlier?
sounds weird to me
Don't say it too often, or you'll inflict semantic satiation on yourself!
@ACuriousMind yeah, that happens pretty often to me
didn't know the name, though
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