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5:03 PM
@vzn what do you mean by "laser", and what do you mean by "very long wavelengths"?
=P
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty is there really much ambiguity? :|
 
@vzn as always, it's a sliding scale
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty basically looking for coherent EM waves, was looking over an old conversation with DS on this subj
 
In my neck of the woods, the longest wavelengths you can reliably produce at a usefully high intensity and usefully short pulses is something like three microns
@vzn what's wrong with a radio antenna?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty yeah that might work. am wondering if anyone has tried to measure "photon arrival times" at very high resolution for very long wavelengths
 
5:06 PM
@vzn what is that "photon arrival time" thing?
... and how does it square with the bandwith-pulsewidth product restriction?
 
@anonymous that's what I get.
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty long story but basically some bell experiments in late 1990s used timers and did the correlations on a computer instead of in the hardware. (weihs) wonder about other technologies/ experiments etc...
 
@anonymous: that's for a one micron slit spacing and a 1 metre distance from slits to screen. The $x$ axis is distance in metres.
 
@vzn ok, so that's essentially "your photon is in a pulse and the arrival time is a quantity which is randomly spread over the spread of the pulse"?
I'm still not sure what the question is
if you're asking "can you make really really short radio pulses?"
then yes, obviously
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty just trying to understand what kinds of general physics experiments have been done in the area of measuring photon timing wrt very long wavelengths and very high time resolution on the detection.
 
5:09 PM
@vzn "very long wavelengths" is not a very useful measure
how long is "long"?
 
@anonymous its (meu not) .. Didn't know how to type it so I made it ū. Sorry for confusion
 
one micron? one millimeter? one kilometer? one million kilometers?
also, what sort of bandwidth are you willing to accommodate?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty are you saying experiments have been done at all those? am talking about a coherent source
 
@vzn no, I'm saying the answer will look quite different depending on the regime
 
@vzn He's saying that you should be more careful in specifying what you're asking for. Of course no one has done any experiments on the matter at the million kilometer scale: we don't have the receivers.
 
5:13 PM
btw guys, who else loves the fact that the "Poynting" vector is actually a thing
 
also, note, that "coherent source" is nowhere near enough to be able to talk about Bell-inequality experiments
 
vzn
@dmckee its not a theoretical question, its more about "what have people done historically" & experimental setup/ capability
 
The US navy uses multi-kilometer wavelength radio, but that's not coherent.
 
vzn
@dmckee ok. but it could possibly broadcast a coherent signal, but maybe nobody has experimented with that.
 
If you want this thing to be able to produce entangled photons then that's a completely different question and you need to say so up front
 
5:14 PM
@Skyler You meen the fact that the Poynting vector points in the direction of energy flow.
Everyone loves that. It's too perfect.
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty am skipping the entanglement issue for now. understand its crucial to bell experiments.
am thinking somewhat along the lines of photon bunching/ antibunching experiments.
 
@vzn And that its named after a real dude named Poynting who was working on that problem
 
@vzn again, that has nothing to do with coherence
well, it does, but it's a much stronger requirement on top of that
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty they tend to use coherent sources in those experiments afaik...
 
if you are going to ask for requirements that are stronger than coherence, you need to say so up front
 
5:15 PM
@JohnRennie Right. So at about 0.20 when blue becomes 0 red color predominates. And this is before the constructive interference of blue at 0.4. So my guess was correct that red is the color which appears closest to the central white ?
Or is 0.20 a part of the central white itself ?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty it seems like most laser/ coherent EM experiments are with short wavelengths. so am just wondering how long the wavelengths are that have been studied.
 
@AlphaRomeo You can type it as \mu_o
 
@vzn what do you mean by "studied"?
Longest wavelengths that have been studied? probably thousands to millions of kilometers.
 
@anonymous your calculation is wrong. It isn't immediately obvious to me what you've done wrong but it's clearly wrong as the limits of $cos^2$ are zero and one. Also your two waves have the same periodicity.
I did my graph in Excel, and I know it's correct.
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty huh. what kinds of experiments? cosmic? coherent waves?
 
5:18 PM
@vzn it's just radio.
1 Mm corresponds to about 0.3Hz
that's plenty easy to "study"
ask a weak question, get a weak answer
 
@JohnRennie I believe you because you know what to look for in checking the resulting figures. But I can't tell you how many times students have told be that when they weren't even in the same ballpark as the right procedure.
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty ok. basically its all AM/ FM. but what about coherent waves, wonder if anyone tries to study photon arrival time wrt it...
 
@vzn no, it's not AM nor FM (much lower frequency), but it's the same difference
 
@JohnRennie Ahh, probably my distance between slits is what is affecting the result. Yes, your graph is correct
 
@vzn and yes, it's perfectly possible to make them coherent
 
5:19 PM
@vzn Do something for me. Calculate the energy of a single photon of one kilometer wavelength.
Then point me at the detector for that energy.
 
@dmckee if you're calculating two waves with different periodicities and the graph shows them to have the same periodicity that should be a clue there's a mistake :-)
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty ok thx for your guidane & will try to formulate this better
 
@vzn yeah, you need to provide more clear restrictions on the kind of answers you're actually looking for
 
@anonymous Cool ;-) and the first fringe is ... violet!
 
This is why I worry about the way you get excited about ideas: you don't always seem to have the background needed to idiot check them.
 
vzn
5:20 PM
@dmckee antenna? not sure what you are getting at. antennas cant detect single photons, is that your point?
 
@dmckee me?
 
@vzn yes
 
@dmckee: ah, vzn - crossed conversations! :-)
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty so that helps me formulate the question. what are the longest wavelengths where single photons can be detected. & think that is not much different than the original question :|
 
@JohnRennie Yeah.
 
5:22 PM
@vzn It's a very different question
 
What up
 
@vzn That's actually well-posed enough for the main site, I should think
> what's the longest wavelength at which we can reliably prepare and measure a single photon?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty lol ok fine
 
or also something like
> what's the longest wavelength at which we can reliably prepare and measure squeezed light?
 
5:24 PM
@EmilioPisanty The 'prepare' question is spearate from the 'measure' one.
 
@skillpatrol Jesus, long time no see man
 
And 'reliably' isn't clear.
 
@dmckee you can't measure it if you can't produce it ;-)
 
vzn
it is quite a challenge to write "good" SE questions :|
 
I can build an imaging detector with pixels that have of QE of less than one percent.
 
5:25 PM
vzn is asking for something that can be developed into a full protocol, anyways
 
yup @BernardoMeurer how are you pal?
 
But I wouldn't call that 'reliable' for very many experimental purposes.
 
@skillpatrol i'm alright, just finished the first semester of uni, what about you?
 
@BernardoMeurer Chillin
 
In fact typical cheep digital cameras use pixels that have a QE in the sub-percent range. Rotten low-light sensitivity.
 
5:27 PM
@skillpatrol Sweet
 
vzn
@dmckee QE = quantum efficiency?
 
@vzn Yes.
 
vzn
actually EPs answer reminds me of quasars/ pulsars, possibly that might come close to what am wondering about etc
 
pulsars are interesting objects
 
^look at that gorgeous branch cut
 
vzn
5:31 PM
@KyleKanos :) do you know QM well? my next question is whether QM predicts any variation in photon arrival times for coherent sources...?
 
(conversation was getting too physicsy)
 
@vzn i was able to do qm enough to pass exams, but never did it beyond that, sorry
 
@vzn You keep talking about photon arrival times like it's an observable in QM.
it's not.
Time in QM is a minefield.
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty right, it seems to relate to fock states etc
 
I think my twins put themselves down for a nap.
 
5:33 PM
@vzn everything "relates" to Fock states, so that's not a very useful statement
 
vzn
but bell experiments do in fact refer somewhat to "photon arrival times"...
admittedly doesnt know much about fock states :|
 
@vzn ... in the sense that as far as the relativity+causality considerations go, you need to be able to guarantee the measurement will happen exclusively in some time window for each branch.
If you want to go into what time within that window, that's a whole different kettle of fish
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty PMT "clicks" are detectable. experimenters call them "photons". its roughly valid for low light levels apparently.
 
@vzn so?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty they are "observing photons"...
 
5:35 PM
@vzn they use that language
doesn't necessarily mean that that's what they're doing
but anyway, if your question is "if I have a coherent state for a single pulsed mode which spans a time window $[0,T]$, is there something useful I can say about the distribution of PMT clicks on the detector?"
the answer is no
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty are you talking T very small? )( that is my question as T gets larger than very small :)
 
@vzn I am talking any finite T
The PMT click distribution will follow the temporal intensity profile of the pulsed mode
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty lol think you just said something useful about the distribution :)
 
@vzn ::rolls eyes::
no, that's not anything particularly useful
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty it seems to nearly contradict your other statement "photon arrival times are not an observable in QM"
 
5:42 PM
@vzn You do know that "observable" has a specific technical meaning in QM, right?
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty yes ofc
 
@vzn so you can see that there is no such contradiction
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty not sure how to model your stated setup wrt QM
 
@vzn It was already perfectly well formulated.
 
vzn
am looking at stuff like this, still thinking picoquant.com/images/uploads/page/files/7253/technote_tcspc.pdf
 
5:47 PM
@anonymous :D new to this.. Thanks
 
@vzn don't really have time to evaluate a paper, sorry
 
vzn
@EmilioPisanty np! understand! thx for your time! :)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:03 PM
So quiet in here...
 
@Mladen hi
 
whaddap
 
@Mladen Reading variable gain amplifier spec sheets.
 
@DanielSank sounds like guitar/music stuff
 
@Mladen Nope.
Physics stuff ;-)
 
7:06 PM
@DanielSank you have an amplifier that you cannot hook up a guitar to?
doesn't sound all that useful
 
@EmilioPisanty Correct.
@EmilioPisanty :-|
 
@DanielSank here, this'll make it better
 
Can't listen right now.
Will later.
Opened in tab.
 
amplifying stuff i presume? :P
@EmilioPisanty it really does cheer up
 
What's going on
 
7:08 PM
@Mladen Yep.
 
@0celo7 amplifiers and mexican music so far
 
Need to take 4GHz-8GHz signal and convert to 0-500MHz I/Q signals.
 
@DanielSank what for?
 
Want variable gain because it's going into an 8-bit analog to digital converter.
@Mladen Readout out the state of a superconducting qubit.
 
@DanielSank like, this interfaces directly with the qubit and with your ADC?
neat
 
7:10 PM
@EmilioPisanty It's a bit more indirect than that...
 
@DanielSank figures
 
stuff got waaay faster all physicsy in here than I expected
 
You can't staple room temperature electronics to a qubit. That would decohere the $%*@& out of it.
@Mladen It is a physics chat room...
But we talk about food, music, and a whole crapton of math too.
 
@DanielSank i know, but from amps to mexican music to qubits in under 5 minutes? Not bad I say, not bad.
 
How superconducting qubit readout works is explained here (pdf), among others.
^ That's my phd dissertation
It's all a game of getting high accuracy state discrimination without the apparatus decohering the qubit.
So @Mladen what's your deal?
 
7:16 PM
@DanielSank my deal? I just came back from a small vacation with my girl, and now I'm catching up with manga updates I missed while trying not to sulk for failing an exam. And also thought I might waste some time here as well :)
 
@Mladen Physics undergrad?
 
@DanielSank what's undergrad?
I'm only familiar with Bachelor/Master/PhD "titles"
 
@Mladen undergrad=bachelor
postgrad=(master || PhD) student
 
I see
well I almost finished the bachelor stuff, only the thesis remaining, and it is in the finishing steps.
 
@Mladen You must be in Europe.
 
7:19 PM
But I already started with master lectures. Passed theoretical astrophysics, but failed general relativity :/
 
GR is hard.
 
@DanielSank Yes, Switzerland.
 
@Mladen Aha. Send me some gruyere, please.
I am on the verge of death because of too long without cave aged gruyere.
 
@DanielSank It's my favourite too :)
 
@Mladen So you won't send me any?
I can offer home-made honey wine in return.
 
7:20 PM
Honey wine? Is that different from mead?
 
Same thing.
 
Also it depends where you live. Sending cheese does not seem like a good idea to me.
(If it has to travel for a while I mean)
 
Of course. I'm mostly joking around.
 
You'll probably get some fluffy moving stuff when it arrives
(could be a good present for biologists I imagine)
 
heheh
 
7:23 PM
by the time it arrives it will probably be eating cheese itself
you'd have to share the rest of the gruyere with it
or fight it
no shirts, only knifes
maybe a fork
DanielSank in an epic battle against a fluffy ball; The winner takes the rest of the gruyere and a guitar amp.
insert epic guitar solo here
 
Can it be a guitar battle instead of a knife battle?
 
I went too far, didnt I
@DanielSank only if its to THE DEATH
dun dun duuuuun
 
I'll play Chuck Berry. The mold stands no chance unless it can play Satriani.
 
o_O
 
vzn
7:28 PM
@Mladen hi, are you talking about masters thesis? any idea what itll be on?
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform I never understood how you could take a picture of a photon.
 
@DanielSank I want that.
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform Visit SB.
I have five gallons.
 
@DanielSank I asked. Your president said no.
 
Ugh
 
7:29 PM
@Mladen MAGIC
 
vzn
@AccidentalFourierTransform cool! who is doing that? why does it light up before it hits the mirror? etc
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform Aren't you Spanish?
 
@DanielSank yeah, I was joking
 
what exactly do you mean?
I'm currently on my bachelor's thesis, and it's almost finished. Still no idea about a master thesis though, although I'll probably want it to be in the same field, which is computational astrophysics
@vzn (also why do you see the light as it moves in another direction...?)
 
vzn
@Mladen whats your bachelor thesis on?
 
7:33 PM
@vzn So the professor I work with/for has this particle/fluid simulation code called ramses (see bitbucket.org/rteyssie/ramses ). A relatively new feature was a clump finding algorithm that works on the fly, and my task was to implement a particle unbinding algorithm.
 
vzn
@Mladen <3 <3 <3 fluid dynamics o_O
 
The code advances the (dark matter) particles in time and space, and the clumpfinder finds clumps based on the density field of the particles. My job was to find out whether each particle in a clump is energetically bound to it.
 
argh! why am I hungry again? I had lunch like three times already
I mean, today
 
vzn
@Mladen huh, interesting, (dark matter is a Big Deal™ these days...) dont know about "dark matter particles"... there are no conjectured particles wrt dark matter are there?
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform tapeworm maybe?
@vzn let me google conjectured particles real quick
 
7:38 PM
@Mladen yes, that was my second lunch. How did you know!?
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform lucky guess I guess.
 
vzn
@Mladen ps guest spkr chat slot still open, see we discussed it few mos ago, plz let me know on that, hope you get the courage unlike anyone else these days :) :P
 
@vzn Sure, I just need to finish my thesis first. Should only take a couple of weeks. After that, I don't see why not.
 
vzn
@Mladen =D ok cool understand
 
@vzn About the conjecture particles - I actually have no idea of a QM description of dark matter.
 
vzn
7:41 PM
@Mladen its pretty cutting edge stuff
 
Apparently assigning noninteracting particles to dark matter explains some effects other theories couldn't, and I've mostly seen it from the simulation side, where everything is usually simplified. So.... I'm absolutely clueless.
 
vzn
@Mladen there are some nearly-radical new theories eg Verlinde "emergent gravity", have been citing him lately. my own theory is dark matter is spacetime distortions =D ... re "absolutely clueless"... Hawking recently says "dark matter is just a name for something we dont understand"
 
Well... all matter is spacetime distortion....
 
vzn
@Mladen agreed but maybe in a way we still dont understand :)
 
Well yeah, they're called "dark matter" and "dark energy" because we can't actually see it, but only its effects
That's why we're guessing its properties and see how it works out
at least for simulations
that's what a lot of simulations are run for
 
vzn
7:54 PM
@dmckee lol have you guys for that :P ps are your students still doing any experiments lately? would be interesting to hear about them, & plz let me know if any are interested in something really wild/ exotic :P
@Mladen iirc @KyleKanos used to do lots of this type of work, have you met him?
 
@vzn No, I'm afraid I haven't
 
8:28 PM
Wonder where @ACuriousMind disappeared off to
 
@Mladen I tried working with Ramses once. I could understand what was actually being done to make it work on some of the side physics (e.g., heat losses), so I gave up on it & went with another code.
But I did supernova remnant evolution as part of my dissertation
Nothing with DM in it it
 
@KyleKanos I can imagine. It's not documented very well, I spent hours trying to figure it out. Still don't know how most of the code works. But yeah, it can also work without DM. Apparently it can handle " self-gravitating, magnetised, compressible, radiative fluid flows. ", but I've worked with DM exclusively so far.
 
Sounds about right. Most MHD codes can do that though, so it's not particularly special in that sense
 
@KyleKanos I didn't intend to imply that is was special, but I couldn't compare it to other codes for lack of knowledge. I just happened to work on it with the original author for my bachelors thesis, that's how it came up.
 
AstroBEAR, Pluto, Athena, Piernik and Pencil are probably a few others worth being aware of, if you're aiming to continue with MHD
 
8:41 PM
Are those codes?
 
yes
 
thanks, I'll write them donw
 
@EmilioPisanty what was that crazy album you linked a few days ago?
I need dat.
 
*down
 
@DanielSank Cumbiakistán by Mákina Kandela
try also Ondatrópica
 
8:45 PM
What kind of music is that?
 
@EmilioPisanty Hot damn. Thanks.
Dope music, @0celo7. Dope music.
You will not be able to remain seated.
 
nice
 
ah, good thing Im already drunk
 
@DanielSank Should I blast it in my QM recitation?
 
8:47 PM
@0celo7 Yep.
 
will people think I am weird
 
dont they already?
 
no, why would they?
 
@0celo7 Yes.
@0celo7 Because you are weird.
 
@DanielSank yeah I'm going to need proof of that
proof that's not just an attack
 
8:50 PM
@0celo7 You are a physics student.
 
@DanielSank then why should I do it?
 
You like differential geometry.
 
@DanielSank I'm not a physics student
 
@0celo7 Maximize dopeness.
@0celo7 ok, because you are a nuclear engineering student.
 
that seems like an ad hominem
 
8:55 PM
@0celo7 looks more like a simple inference to me
 
well, a lot of physicists are weird. And completely fine with it.
 
take Daniel
 
and this is a physics chatroom
 
Daniel is a physicist, therefore Daniel is a bit weird
 
I'm not a physicist
so I'm not a weirdo
 
8:56 PM
Is it that important not to be weird?
 
yes
 
@0celo7 There are weird non-physicists
 
there's no good reason to be weird
 
there is no good reason not to be weird as well.
 
sigh
 
8:59 PM
who is the random mod?
 
on second thought, lets not make this political.
 
did someone flag the Trump comment?
 
Someone did flag it, but reminder:
 
yeah
 
"FFS" can be interpreted as "for frick's sake"
 
8:59 PM
doesn't matter
 

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