The h Bar

0celo7

03:00

what are you talking about

covering of an edge?

yuggib

splitting the edge in overlapping intervals

in the optimal way

0celo7

Why do I need an optimal way?

What's wrong with what I did :P

And I'm not sure what you're doing

yuggib

you are saying that you don't like the $B$ depending on $\alpha$

0celo7

oh fuck it does

ok I'll listen :P

yuggib

so you have $a_i/a_1=n+r$, $r$ the remainder

so you need $n+1$ intervals

0celo7

03:02

umm, what is $n$

yuggib

(also if $r=0$, since you can't cover with a precise number)

$n$ is the number of times $a_1$ stays in $a_i$

i.e. in the $3\times 1$ rectangle, $n=3$

for the edge of length $3$

0celo7

Sorry, I don't know what you're doing

Is drawing a picture possible :P

That's how I figured out my method

yuggib

it takes too long

0celo7

How many squares do I need with your method?

yuggib

with your way of dividing an edge, you need $5$ cubes for the $3\times 1$ rectangle

with mine, $4$

i.e. the integer part of $a_i/a_1$ plus one

0celo7

03:06

hmm

yuggib

(concerning each edge of course in many dimensions)

0celo7

but that doesn't fix the problem, does it?

because the range of $\beta$ still depends on $\alpha$

($\alpha$ is what gives you $a_i$)

yuggib

yeah right

then who cares

0celo7

?

yuggib

I mean, forget about what I was saying

0celo7

03:09

Oh

Like I said, I'm convinced and my prof will be happy

yuggib

then it's perfect

0celo7

He said I should do this baby measure theory as a challenge

Before I take his course on it in 2 semesters

yuggib

I see

it seems more euclidean geometry to me... :-P

0celo7

@yuggib well, yes

The thing I'm going to prove next is Fubini's theorem

yuggib

aaah good ol' fubini

Slereah

03:11

The best measure is the wiener measure

(heheheh wiener)

yuggib

you're awake pretty early

wiener measure is a gaussian measure

nothing really special

apart from "wiener" being funny

0celo7

haha wiener :'D

I've got one of those

Slereah

WIENER

"Tightness in classical Wiener space"

snort

0celo7

Who thought that was a good name for a paper

yuggib

I don't think it is a paper

0celo7

03:17

how would you know

are you a Wiener theorist?

Slereah

I'm a wiener practitioner

Sir Cumference

Hey, kinda dumb question, but if no information can escape a black hole's event horizon, how could it possibly have gravity?

Doesn't gravity itself count as information?

yuggib

@Slereah it's nothing to be ashamed of

Slereah

@SirCumference Infinite time dilation

Sir Cumference

I know the event horizon forms because of gravity, but doesn't that violate the definition?

Slereah

03:20

What you see from outside the black hole isn't the black hole itself

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Elaborate?

Slereah

It's the image of the collapsing star

Very slowed down

0celo7

@yuggib I can think of no greater shame

Sir Cumference

I'm sorry? You can't see anything from a black hole. Wouldn't it just be pitch black, since no light would escape it?

Slereah

I don't mean "see" in a literal sense

Sir Cumference

03:21

?

Slereah

Although what I say only applies to a stellar black hole

Schwarzschild is ETERNAL

Sir Cumference

I'm sorry?

yuggib

@0celo7 that is because of your christian heritage

0celo7

@yuggib I'm a muslim...

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Weren't you the one who supported trump?

0celo7

03:24

Yes

Slereah

He is also a big old liar

Sir Cumference

Explain

THIS RELATIONSHIP CANNOT BE BUILT ON LIES, 0CELO

yuggib

@0celo7 that does not mean you don't have a christian heritage

Slereah

0celo7

What's y'all's proof that I'm not

Sir Cumference

03:25

You say you are

That's proof that you're not

0celo7

...wat

is everything i say a lie?

Sir Cumference

Never trust 0celo

0celo7

automatically?

Sir Cumference

Everything not related to GR

yuggib

@0celo7 not everything, questions are not lies

0celo7

03:26

@Slereah eats poopoo

Sir Cumference

I'm still left unanswered...

Slereah's answer isn't making much sense to me

0celo7

what was the question

Sir Cumference

If the event horizon of a black hole is defined as the region from which information cannot escape, then how can the black hole have gravity?

Wouldn't that count as information?

I know the event horizon forms because of gravity, but the definition itself would then not make sense

yuggib

nothing "has gravity" in general relativity

Sir Cumference

Okay, how can it warp spacetime?

That counts as information, doesn't it?

Sending out gravitational waves

yuggib

03:28

but everything has energy; and energy modifies the spacetime geometry to an extent that it acts like an apparent force

Sir Cumference

I thought no information in an event horizon can reach the outside world?

0celo7

@yuggib since when are you an expert

@SirCumference there's a billion questions of this sort on PSE

yuggib

@0celo7 no need to be an expert to answer to a basic GR question

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Link me?

yuggib

@0celo7 and I have a degree in physics, by the way

Sir Cumference

03:30

@yuggib Applied physics doesn't count

0celo7

@yuggib perhaps

yuggib

@SirCumference ?

0celo7

FUKN REKT

@yuggib but you've since seen the errors of your ways

yuggib

@0celo7 exactly

0celo7

@yuggib I agree

physics is pretty terrible

completely boring

yuggib

03:33

but still I had to complete three relativity courses

0celo7

it's either irrelevant or less interesting math

Sir Cumference

Physics is awesome

0celo7

@yuggib so you once could understand @Slereah and me?

yuggib

@SirCumference nah, physics is opinions with sloppy math

Sir Cumference

It's basically math used on the Universe

0celo7

03:33

lol

Sir Cumference

lol?

0celo7

"math"

Sir Cumference

Math

0celo7

Whenever I see people on this site talking about math...ugh

yuggib

@0celo7 more or less

Sir Cumference

03:34

@0celo7 Do you know what site we're on?

More often than not people here talk about math

Physics is just math used on the Universe

yuggib

because math is cool B-)

0celo7

@SirCumference no

Sir Cumference

Wait what?

In particular, the dictionary defines it as "the branch of science concerned with the nature and properties of matter and energy"

So I guess there we go.

0celo7

theoretical physics is laughably boring

Sir Cumference

Theoretical physics is the only physics that matters.

0celo7

03:38

It fails to be mathematically rigorous or actually useful

yuggib

the problem with physics is that on one hand it uses mathematical concepts to support intuition, but then often refuses to accept that mathematics has some rules and results you have to deal with

Sir Cumference

So? It describes the Universe.

0celo7

@SirCumference So?

Sir Cumference

That's useful enough for me. I could care less about practicality.

I want to understand the world.

That's me, personally.

0celo7

@SirCumference Hah!

Sir Cumference

03:38

No other reason for me learning it, other than finding everything fascinating.

yuggib

@SirCumference yes, but it describe an intuition of how the world should behave

0celo7

Wonder how many millions that black hole signal cost society.

It's not anyone personally.

Sir Cumference

Oh come on, man. We've spent money worse in the past.

And probably the future.

0celo7

How is that an argument?

Slereah

Science spending is chump change in the budget

Under 1% I think

Sir Cumference

03:40

If you're criticizing how much money we've spent, don't support the Trump wall.

0celo7

@SirCumference Mexico is building that wall.

Slereah

Uh, 3%

Not too bad

Sir Cumference

Mexico won't build crud.

0celo7

3% too much

Sir Cumference

Ok, 0celo, what do you find interesting then?

Slereah

03:41

I like how everything is basically crushed by defense spending

Sir Cumference

If understanding the Universe isn't cool enough for you

Slereah

Don't argue with @0celo7

He is just a contrarian

0celo7

@Slereah Nah.

Slereah

You will not get any cogent argument out of him

0celo7

@SirCumference applied physics, applied math, pure math - foundational math

Sir Cumference

03:42

Screw applied physics. That has no meaning in the structure of everything.

It doesn't explain how or why we exist. Why other things exist

0celo7

Break your computer now.

Smash your phone.

Sir Cumference

Yeah, it's good for society

But it doesn't explain how everything exists. Theoretical physics does.

0celo7

Stop using PSE

Just stop

Sir Cumference

>_>

0celo7

You're embarrassing yourself

Sir Cumference

03:43

Stop existing then

Theoretical physics explains why you can exist

Just go back to being nothingness

Which matters more? You're phone or everything ever?

0celo7

you keep embarrassing yourself

Slereah

He is phone

Sir Cumference

How can you possibly find such things interesting?

The fact that your particles can move, your mouth can vibrate air, your ears can understand those vibrations, your eyes can interpret light, etc.

None of that seems amazing?

Jesus, dude.

yuggib

you're exaggerating a bit

0celo7

That's not theoretical physics you idiot

Sir Cumference

03:46

That's all built around theoretical physics.

0celo7

No

Sir Cumference

It all comes down to particles.

Like hell you can build a Universe using applied physics.

0celo7

When black hole sex 10,000,000 light years away can improve society let me know

Sir Cumference

Why would you study GR?!

yuggib

@SirCumference it's all built on making observations, and effective theories that agree with observations by means of predictions

Sir Cumference

03:47

Or QM?

0celo7

@SirCumference You can't build a universe either.

@SirCumference I don't.

Sir Cumference

Theoretical physics explains how a universe is built.

0celo7

So?

Why does that matter?

Sir Cumference

The matter, energy, space, time

BECAUSE IT ALLOWS YOU TO EXIST?

0celo7

@SirCumference QM is applied physics.

yuggib

03:48

@SirCumference nah, theoretical physics conjectures how things should work

Secret

Being a 4th order tensor and involving 3+1 dimensions, the curvature tensor includes the time dimension as one of its components

Therefore you can have curvature tensors that is analogous to describing viscosity, vortices, sources and sinks, torsion, turbulences, flow etc. in fluids. But in addition to that, because the tensor has a higher order, the curvature it describes can go beyond things like gaussian curvature, twisting, stretching etc.

what these are I currently have no idea yet because I need to revise them again

Sir Cumference

@yuggib Dude just leave

yuggib

the only criterion for these conjectures to be satisfactory being their agreement with observations

Sir Cumference

No one here wants to know why or how they exist?

Applied physics makes things. Theoretical explains things.

0celo7

What does it explain, exactly?

Sir Cumference

03:49

How exactly we could exist. How gravity bounds us to the Earth. How the planet we live on formed to begin with.

0celo7

No it doesn't. It claims to reduce it to some set of principles but cannot explain these.

yuggib

@SirCumference you're very naïve with your point of view

Sir Cumference

How information from the screen reaches our brain. How these annoying notification sounds reach our ears.

0celo7

You can mute them in the top right corner.

Look for the speaker symbol.

Sir Cumference

Oh, good

0celo7

03:50

(Took me about 1/100 as long as you to figure that out :P)

Sir Cumference

Anyway, why on Earth would you study "holy GR" if you only care about applied physics?

0celo7

It's mathematically interesting

I don't give a shit about LIGO, for instance.

Sir Cumference

No one does.

0celo7

What?

skill patrol

I do

Sir Cumference

03:51

GR is a perfect example of theoretical physics.

@skillpatrol Shoo.

0celo7

@SirCumference No, GR is wrong.

It's a perfect example why your claim is silly.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 It's incomplete. What's your point?

You find it mathematically interesting, yet you hate theoretical physics?

0celo7

So it doesn't explain anything.

@SirCumference Yes.

I don't hate it.

Sir Cumference

It explains a lot in certain areas.

0celo7

I think it's uninteresting.

Sir Cumference

03:53

@0celo7 ...but you find it mathematically interesting?

0celo7

Not all of it.

Sir Cumference

What parts do you find interesting, then?

0celo7

I just like geometry.

Sir Cumference

The geometry of spacetime isn't applied physics.

0celo7

I like geometry. Not the physics of GR.

Sir Cumference

03:54

You're studying gravity beyond newtonian physics. You call it "holy". Jesus Christ, how do you find it boring?

0celo7

I can't tell you what time dilation is.

Sir Cumference

Does it not amaze you that time dilation exists?

0celo7

But I can prove that compact spacetimes have nonempty chronology violating sets.

Sir Cumference

That's not even applied!

That's 100% theoretical!

0celo7

I already said I like math.

Sir Cumference

03:55

No, you said "applicable math"

0celo7

You're trying to find a contradiction where there is none.

@SirCumference No.

Read again.

14 mins ago, by 0celo7

@SirCumference applied physics, applied math, pure math - foundational math

Sir Cumference

oye, ok, why pure math?

0celo7

I don't have a rational reason for that.

Sir Cumference

It's just interesting, while theoretical physics isn't?

0celo7

I suspect it would be in my best interest to not like it.

@SirCumference Math is correct, theoretical physics is speculation.

Sir Cumference

03:57

Theoretical physics is math applied to the Universe.

0celo7

You'll see the light one day.

Or maybe not.

Sir Cumference

Math itself isn't entirely complete. Indeterminate forms, for example.

0celo7

@yuggib what do you think?

@SirCumference What?

Sir Cumference

$0/0$, $0^0$

These things have no answer

0celo7

What?

yuggib

03:58

I think that @SirCumference is just a kid overexcited with theoretical physics.

0celo7

@yuggib I guess.

Sir Cumference

@yuggib Screw off, man. How can you not be excited?

0celo7

@SirCumference He has a PhD in it.

Sir Cumference

How did it not excite you, then?

What made you want to pursue it?

yuggib

(PhD in mathematics, master degree in theoretical physics to be precise)

0celo7

03:59

You're more than excited, you're being silly.

@yuggib Oh yeah.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 I guess I don't have a rational reason for liking it.

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