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00:14
@0celo7 Wow, rude.
00:25
@NeuroFuzzy Lol, nerd detected.
Only a nerd would defend a nerd.
@Slereah looked through the table of contents of Shouten, I have no clue what the book is about
I don't know any of these words
@Slereah you can send it to me if you don't want it
 
1 hour later…
01:56
@ACuriousMind He's hunting spiders again.
02:26
@Danu Not unless you do it every day :D
02:55
> Thus, if $u$ is a timelike vector with $\mathrm{Ric}(u,u)>0$, then in some sense the "average" sectional curvature for planes in the pencil of $u$ is negative.
@ACuriousMind Have you ever heard of "pencil" being used like this before?
All the planes contain $u$.
@Slereah If you bound the timelike sectional curvature above and below, the spacetime has constant curvature.
03:11
@Slereah Wtf is up with the generic condition, it seems so random
 
1 hour later…
04:12
Who wants to try an integral?
@ChrisWhite I've been there.
It's called The Internet.
04:52
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160316151619.htm

chemist make stuff to make quantum stuff
Just wondering, does anyone here know how good UCLA is for their undergrad programs (in like physics and stuff) -an australian in need
05:44
0
Q: Statistics of the product of two white noise Fourier amplitudes

DanielSankConsider two sequences of random numbers \begin{align} A &= \{a_0, a_1, \ldots a_N\} \\ B &= \{b_0, b_1, \ldots b_N\} \, . \end{align} where each $a$ and $b$ value is independently drawn from a Gaussian distribution $$G_\sigma(x) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi \sigma^2}} \exp \left[ -\frac{x^2}{2 \sig...

@JoshuaLin My fiance, who is now at OSU on a fellowship for astrophysics, went to UCLA.
@0celo7 I evicted a spider from our conference room a few weeks ago.
It was a black widow.
@DanielSank would you say that going over to UCLA for an undergrad degree would be a good idea? I'm currently at the Australian National Uni, but I just got an offer from UCLA so I'm no longer sure anymore... UCLA is ranked like higher in every respect, but I'm not really sure how the rankings affect the undergrad experience, so right now I'm super unsure about life
 
1 hour later…
07:04
@DanielSank Yikes!!!
@JoshuaLin First of all, do you want to be a physicist? Are you sure about that?
@Danu I have absolutely no idea, I'm pretty interested in everything(science + mathsy) to be honest. At the time of application I applied to be a Physics major, but that was just because I know a little bit more about physics than anything else
@JoshuaLin So then, statistically speaking, you're probably not going to become a physicist (which is fine!).
In that case, I wouldn't worry so much about the ratings of your universities, but rather consider how happy you'll be to live where you study.
user54412
07:21
^ that
user54412
it's not like ANU is unheard of
user54412
07:34
@BernardMeurer My attendance in this room is completely unpredictable.
I think I'm a pretty happy chap, I don't really mind where I live too much. I moved down from Sydney to Canberra for a couple of months now to study for a bit at Aus National Uni, and everyone continuously says like "You'll get homesick soon" and all that stuff, but I'm pretty happy wherever I am I think

Its just that here at ANU, it feels like theres a part of me missing. Ive been thinking a lot lately, and I realised I derive satisfaction from three main things:
1. Having friends to talk to, party with, relax with, so on
user54412
well, I can't speak to what ANU is like socially
user54412
but I can tell you generically what big universities in the US like UCLA are like: most of the people sound like the ones you describe
user54412
most college students in the US, even the more prestigious schools, are there just to get a piece of paper that makes them more employable, or else they're there because they don't know what else to do with their time
I guess that holds everywhere
user54412
07:40
that said, when you have thousands or tens of thousands of classmates, there will always be some group you can fit into well
user54412
it's a matter of finding them
08:19
And now the queues are completely empty---I guess we're not so understaffed after all? :P
 
2 hours later…
10:27
So anyway
I have a physics question
What's a good video game to play this week end
broforce
Something more story-oriented, maybe
Hi!
I argue with my mom because I wanted to borrow from the library Resnick & Halliday's book.
I've version on pdf but I wanted to have paper version.
@Slereah there's a lot of story in broforce
Aren't all the missions SAVE THE PRESIDENT
10:42
Do someone know how to convince mum that she bought me Landau & Lifshitz's book and Resnick & Halliday's book?
@Slereah no; you have also to do something something something unilateral
or americanize irakistan
11:01
@Danu The day is young - wait until the frequent reviewers run out of close votes or hit the 20 reviews.
@Slereah Did you play The Witcher 3?
I never even finished the Witcher 1
Got bored
The 3rd is much better than the 2nd, and the 2nd was lightyears from the 1st
I never finished the first one, either. I liked the second, and now the third is my favourite game in a looong time
11:45
@Slereah you are a nerrrrrd!!
12:04
So anyway
Where do you even get that idea for a manifold
12:24
@0celo7 don't do that
honestly saying!! your life is similar to that mine!(*my mom doesn't want me to build a kingdom of books*), so i don't have Resnick-halliday but i did mange somehow to do on iphone(*laptop was quite hard for studying*)
And for some topics which are very boring like sound waves , waves on string and for exercises of rotational motion which demanded high concentration i used to go to library!
@hubot to convince your mum you must go to parenting SE
12:45
@Slereah Fallout 4
Eh
Fallout 4 did not keep my interest
I think I'm gonna play some Don't Starve
Hey @0celo7
I'm gonna make an answer for Ellis
Any more things to ask?
dude
I needed to ask you something last night
wtf was it
oh, do you understand page 69-70 in HE
Dunno
Didn't read that bit
wth
just send ellis Freire's proof
and ask him wtf "without boundary" means
then point out that technically the open disk is without boundary as a manifold
if he says some BS like "topological boundary" note that only clopen sets have empty topological boundary.
@Slereah Did you know that if $W$ is a nonnull vector that satisfies the generic condition, the sectional curvature vanishes for all planes containing $W$
@Slereah Do you know why $\sqrt{|x|^2|y|^2-(x\cdot y)^2}$ is the area of the parallelogram with sides $x,y$?
13:08
@0celo7 Draw it.
@ACuriousMind huh?
@ACuriousMind Is there not some slick way to do this with forms?
like take $x\wedge y$, then...something?
@0celo7 The slick way is to write $(x\cdot y) = \lvert x\rvert\lvert y\rvert\cos(\theta)$ and use $\sin^2+\cos^2 = 1$.
And $|x\times y|=|x||y|\sin\theta$?
@ACuriousMind What if I take the length of $\sharp\star(x^\flat\wedge y^\flat)$?
email is sent
@0celo7 And...what do you think $x\times y$ is?
13:21
@ACuriousMind that mess right there
So what are you asking?
but I need this for the Riemannian case, not Euclidean
$\times$ is not really defined in the Riemannian case
I need the area of a parallelogram in $T_pM$
And again you ask a question without saying what you're actually trying to do :P
sory
Of course you have to use the uglier expression already in the non 3D case, and hence also in the Riemannian case.
13:23
but in the non 3D case, that above thingie does not give me a vector
do I have to take a determinant of something?
The inner product on vectors/forms extends to an inner product on k-vectors. Recall that $v\wedge{\star}w =\langle v,w\rangle\omega$ by definition (of either the r.h.s. or the l.h.s., depending on your preference).
(if expressed in terms of the component 1-vectors of the k-vectors, this is indeed a sort-of-determinant)
uhh
yeah I know that
but now I'm confused as to what the actual area is, when we're not in 3D
@ACuriousMind Should I be taking the "form inner product" of $x\wedge y$ with itself?
It's not clear to me why that is the "area" though
or is that the definition
(then I'm not sure why we define area like that)
Words fail me, I just don't know what the young of today are coming to.
what doyou mean, i didn't get it? — shiamaa 48 mins ago
13:35
@JohnRennie Hey!
You're one to talk
@0celo7 oops, I wasn't referring to your posts. Look at the link I posted.
@JohnRennie I know you weren't
but you're attacking my kin
::snickers::
@0celo7 How do you define "area"?
@ACuriousMind I take a ruler and measure
then multiply some stuff
Stop trolling. If you're asking "how do I compute the area in the general case", you must have a definition of "area in the general case", else that question doesn't mean anything.
13:41
>stop trolling
Seriously?
Do you just call everything I do trolling now?
@0celo7 You mean to say that "I take a ruler and measure and then multiply some stuff" was meant as a serious reply as to what your definition is?
@ACuriousMind Yes.
I have an intuitive notation of what area is.
As you're someone who always asks for "Proof?", surely you cannot believe that's a definition?
@ACuriousMind well
area is like porn
I can't define it, but I know it when I see it
Math doesn't work like that.
13:45
and I don't see it in $\sqrt{\langle x\wedge y,x\wedge y\rangle}$
@ACuriousMind I know
Is it so strange that I don't see why that square root corresponds to my intuitive notion of area?
No. But it is strange that you insist to be able to see that. You don't have an intuitve notion of area in 20D space. All you can do with geometric definitions that are outside our imagination is check that they properly reduce to the intuitive notions in the case we can imagine (like in this case, check that this gives the correct area for any parallelogram in 3D, and also if you project onto the plane spanned by the pg. and compute the area there by elementary means).
Hmm, thanks
Not really convinced, but I have to go
I bet you can see 20D on some heavy drug
@Danu : it's isn't that moment when you (explicitly) abandon coordinate invariance in GR. It's that moment when you realise that Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates were invented by Penrose. And in the next moment you realise you can't make a stopped clock tick by putting a stopped observer in front of it.
I've said already that Roger "parallel antiverse" Penrose makes a habit of appealing to Einstein's authority whilst flatly contradicting the guy.
14:05
@JoshuaLin There are lots of factors, obviously.
Going to a new country could be fun.
@ChrisWhite Are you here now? :p
vzn
vzn
@JoshuaLin hi saw your blog, interesting. do you do other "simulations" not listed on the blog?
7 hours ago, by Chris White
most college students in the US, even the more prestigious schools, are there just to get a piece of paper that makes them more employable, or else they're there because they don't know what else to do with their time
@ChrisWhite reminds me of this article just ran across, quite an indictment of higher edu, alarming, devastating. from a humanities pov however, maybe case can be made the "hard" majors havent experienced same "malaise/ deterioration/ degeneration" etc... have seen some other signs of this...
14:30
@JohnDuffield Lol!
15:00
@0celo7 Solve this problem.
15:32
@DanielSank Silly question: Have you given the integral to the CAS of your choice and tested if it can solve it?
@ACuriousMind Yes.
Aaaaaaaaand?
@ACuriousMind I tried Wolfram Alpha and it says "too long to compute" or some such thing.
If I make certain variables equal to 1, then the answer is one of the Bessel functions, but I need those variables to be variable.
@BernardMeurer how did you put strike on the text in your description?
This can't be so hard. I'm essentially asking for the noise level in a cross-correlation.
@ACuriousMind o_O
How?
15:45
Damn, mistyped :(
With my mistype, I could get it to give me at least the indefinite integral, although it refused to compute the definite integral. Now I can't get it to do either, too
This indicates that the integral has no nice closed-form solution, though
I mean, what do you expect from an integral whose special case is already a Bessel function?
@ACuriousMind Uh, a hypergeometric function, probably.
Setting which variable to 1 gives the Bessel function?
The $\sigma^2 N$ bit.
...if I recall correctly.
Right now I'm trying to compute the mean square of the distribution, rather than the distribution itself.
This is going better...
15:51
You'd be surprised how many weird integrals have a solution
Well...they have solutions in terms of functions which in turn are defined by other integrals
I never found finding such solutions particularly interesting
But I understand you didn't pick calculating this integral for fun ;)
@DeNiSkA `---tsit
@ACuriousMind Indeed not.
---strike---
The special special functions are the worst
15:53
strike
Like the functions that are used for ONE thing
@ACuriousMind I don't really care whether or not the answer can be written in terms of the special functions we like. I'm not special-function-racist like so many people.
sine and cosine are special functions.
Essentially, I just want something I can plot. I'd even plot the integral computed numerically if it didn't depend on two parameters.
One parameter is acceptable (i.e. plot-able).
what integrals are we talking about btw
1
Q: Statistics of the product of two white noise Fourier amplitudes

DanielSankConsider two sequences of random numbers \begin{align} A &= \{a_0, a_1, \ldots a_N\} \\ B &= \{b_0, b_1, \ldots b_N\} \, . \end{align} where each $a$ and $b$ value is independently drawn from a Gaussian distribution $$G_\sigma(x) = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 \pi \sigma^2}} \exp \left[ -\frac{x^2}{2 \sig...

Let me get
The Book
15:57
Now I'm finding that the mean square doesn't converge.
That can't be right.
Found mistake.
Woah.
@DanielSank Your general equation for $Z=XY$ doesn't mesh with what you write specifically for $C$ thereafter.
@ACuriousMind In what way?
There's an integral for $e^{-ax^2 - \frac{b}{x^2}}$
Close but not quite
Let's push on
$$P_Z(z) = \int_{-\infty}^\infty P_X(x) P_Y(z/y) \frac{1}{|z|}dz \, .$$ and \begin{align}
P_{|\tilde{C}_k|}(z)
&= \int_{-\infty}^\infty P_r(r) P_r(z/r) \frac{dr}{|r|} \\
&= \int_0^\infty P_r(r) P_r(z/r) \frac{dr}{r} \\
&= \left( \frac{2}{\sigma^2 N} \right)^2 z \int_0^\infty \exp \left[ - \frac{ r^2 + (z/r)^2 }{\sigma^2 N} \right] \frac{dr}{r} \, .
\end{align}
What's the problem?
16:01
Wait
nvm
What is going on here
I hate integrals :D
@0celo7 RTFL
Sigh...BEE uses relativistic mass.
@ACuriousMind Awww come on.
16:02
Damn mathematicians. They're just as bad about physics as physicists are about math.
They're fun.
@DanielSank I have already made two silly mistakes trying to help you here, I'm really not good at this
@ACuriousMind Heh, ok.
Well, I think I just found that $\langle |\tilde{C}_k|^2\rangle = (\sigma^2 N)^2$.
The dimensions are not what I expect, though.
I don't like a square radius being proportional to $\sigma^4$.
@Slereah There's so much spacetime crap we don't know
@ACuriousMind does the stuff I've written on Math.SE look correct to you?
16:05
There are whole papers analyzing curvature bounds and curvature conditions
This is some crazy shit
Hey
@DanielSank
@Slereah Yo.
@DanielSank Why should I?
You've never been too keen to help me.
I found the integral for $e^{-\frac{a}{x^2} - \mu x^2} \frac{1}{x^2}$
So far not $\frac{1}{x}$ though
@Slereah Dang.
Oh, ha I'm dumb.
16:08
I did find $x^{\nu - 1} e^{-\frac{\beta}{x} - \gamma x}$ though
$|\tilde{C}_k|$ is already a squared quantity.
You might be able to switch variables to make it that?
Of course it's square involves $\sigma^4$.
@Slereah I tried that but it just moves the problem around.
>it's
Well from what I've seen of all the results
It's probably something involbing exponentials, Bessel functions or Gamma functions
16:10
@Slereah That's like saying "it involves functions", heh.
@DanielSank Yes
Well gee sorry for trying to help :p
@Slereah Awww, I was just teasing.
I appreciate your help!
I think you're right about the Bessel functions.
Did you try to differentiate under the integral sign, maybe?
@Slereah Have not tried that yet.
16:13
No one cares about me, sniff, back to reading about geometry
Hah, the book discards Λ because it was written in 1996.
I wonder how much damage the Λ actually does to spacetime topology.
I posted your bloody proof to Ellis :p
Good. Not my proof though.
Yeah
We'll see what he says about it
Is Ellis a math person or physics?
Physics I think
All the things I've seenby him are GR stuff
16:18
There are plenty of math people who do GR
Oh great now we're Lorentz transforming the curvature tensor
Hyperbolic trig yay
Hello everyone
Why would you use a mechanical alarm clock rather than the one on your phone?
@Leuchte Battery doesn't run out?
Phone alarm sounds are annoying?
Couldn't you just change the alarm sound on your phone?
Rather break a 5 dollar mechanical alarm clock instead of your 300 dollar phone in the rage ensuing from being awoken from sleep?
See note about battery, and rage-proof-ness.
Is there any aesthetic side to it? e.g. it is easier to press a real button than look on your screen and touch it with your finger
16:28
@Leuchte Probably for some people. I dunno.
@ACuriousMind You can integrate $z$ first and find $\langle |\tilde{C}_k|\rangle = \pi \sigma^2 N$.
@Slereah ^
@Slereah Not sure if that's enough info for the physics problem I'm trying to solve though.
@DanielSank why would you break anything
You're such a violent person..,
16:50
@Slereah if Ric(v,v)>=0 for all timelike vectors, is it also true for v null?
I'd say yes?
Unless the metric isn't continuous
Well, the ricci tensor
Hm wait
No
Otherwise the NEC and the WEC would be the same
BEE claims its true, but I'm sceptical.
They don't give a proof
If it's true the proof is probably a convergent sequence to a null curve I guess?
Oh. Yeah.
Wait
The WEC does imply the NEC
I'm just being dumb
So I'd say true, yes
16:55
Can you always find a convergent sequence of timelike vectors that go to a null vector?
That's probably a nontrivial theorem in HE.
But BEE assumes you've read HE, they keep taking theorems from it
This shit's intense
A timelike vector with an angle to the light cone that is divided by 2 every step?
Thanks.
I dunno
Oh wait that's a vector not a curve
I think Sanchez has arguments of that type in his paper
about curves converging to null curves
Ok but the timelike tangents will converge to a null tangent.
17:00
So it works. A little strange they didn't prove that, though.
Maybe they'll do it in chap 3.
Wait
I don't think that you can always make a timelike curve converge to a null curve
Unless the lightcone is the boundary of the chronological future
I dunno
I'll investigate when I have access to HE and Wald
So why does WEC imply NEC
Well, I think if you have a null curve, you can always describe it as the limit of a converging sequence of timelike curves
So as long as everything is smooth it should work
@0celo7 and @Slereah, what would you guys think about a room of your own for this kind of stuff?
I wouldn't like it.
17:10
Why
@Slereah Why wouldn't I like it or why does Danu want us to have a separate room
Why a separate room
I'm guessing because he doesn't want to read pages of this when reading the chat log :P
Doesn't he want to read physics in the physics room
I can post more memes, if he desires
we can talk about his love life
@ACuriousMind are we as bad as JD?
At least we say different things every time
@0celo7 What?
I was just offering a guess that Danu means that pages of stuff that only you two care about might be more appropriate in another room. But perhaps he just hates you :P
>only you two
Gee I'm sorry we only care about general relativity :p
Question...
anyone know about neutron stars and degenerate gases?
...what do you want to know about them?
17:24
Well, when a neutron star compresses and the Fermi energy rises, will all the neutrons rise to a higher energy level?
0
Q: Asking moderators favors when looking at questions

Pichi WuanaSome of my questions were on-hold and closed. As everyone knows, it comes a yellow rectangle where it explains what it means and why is your question not so good. For example: Sometimes, this rectangle doesn't explain enough why was the question closed or put on-hold. Is it okay to write in t...

@SirCumference Are you asking whether the energy of the lowest lying state rises or stays the same? (I think it stays the same, but I don't know about neutron stars)
Yep
Really?
Then how can all the energy levels be filled to the Fermi energy when a star compresses?
If the Fermi energy rises
The Fermi energy is just the difference between the lowest and the highest occupied state at zero temperature. Isn't saying "the Fermi energy rises" the same as saying "the Fermi gas compresses", since more fermions distributed on the same states means higher states must get occupied?
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding it, but when the Fermi energy rises, doesn't that mean that most of the fermions will gain energy?
If the Fermi energy rises, then the highest occupied state would probably be higher, right?
Or the lowest state would be lower...any way, the difference in highest and lowest must be greater, right?
17:34
@SirCumference No. It just means the difference between the lowest and the highest occupied state changes. But a priori you can't say whether that is because the individual levels shifted or because you just have more fermions occuping states whose spacing is still the same.
But there aren't necessarily more fermions in the star, right? So why would more fermions be distributed on the same states?
Sorry if I'm not understanding you
Doesn't pressure just generally change the energy levels of a system
@SirCumference The density of states of a Fermi gas is constant. If you increase the density of the fermions, then you get a rising Fermi energy simply because you need to distribute more fermions on the same states.
@Slereah What? The states know nothing of pressure, pressure is a thermodynamic quantity.
Well states know of the volume in which they are constrained!
17:39
Alright, idiot question here, but why would you need to distribute more fermions on the same states if you increase the density of the fermions?
I need to read more into this
@SirCumference Just look at the computation of the Fermi energy for a 3D fermi gas in a box. The number density of the fermions appears very straightforwardly.
17:54
@Slereah everyone else does quantum BS
All right, and with a rising Fermi energy, higher energy levels will be occupied, and pressure increases?
Since the neutrons now move more?
Let's talk about quantum states in GR
We're the only people who care about the only physics that actually matters
No.
@0celo7 Cough neutron stars cough
Pretty important
@SirCumference Ehhhhh, I'd say that the pressure comes from elsewhere (gravitational attraction), I don't see what it has to do with neutrons "moving" more (don't say that, quantum objects don't really move about). And "particles moving" would be temperature, not pressure, anyway
17:57
Fuck it, my source sucks then
It's feeding me lies
Doesn't pressure cause gravitational attraction?
...what?
sigh...
I heard in GR, pressure can be a source of gravitational curvature in spacetime
Oh, that
I don't know what to think now...
Yes, pressure is a part of the stress-energy
17:59
Oh thank god
Alright, so gravity is causing the pressure, which causes gravity, which...

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