The h Bar

Awal Garg

00:02

Hey physics people, I was thinking why do we usually use single character variable names in physics, unlike in programming where we use descriptive names? (I know writing m is shorter than mass but at-least it is more descriptive?)

ACuriousMind

00:18

@AwalGarg I think it is mostly for brevity - formulae quickly get cluttered even with one-lettered variables, and longer names would be horrible for writing on boards or by hand in general

alarge

@AwalGarg In physics you rarely have more than a handful of variables, so there's rarely an issue with confusion. Of course in numerical codes, where there are many variables, you'd typically use more descriptive names. I think it is mostly due to mathematical notation and convention. For example this article uses descriptive names in the pseudocode, but single letters in the mathematical analysis.

dmckee

We also use reliable convention for the single variables. In mechanics $m$ will almost always mean mass, and $v$ velocity. The reliability of these conventions gives an opportunity to become used to the brief names.

By contrast, non-trivial programs roam over the concept landscape rather than staying in a single well defined realm. (Of course when you first started programming your programs were trivial by this definition, and you could get away with short variable names).

Awal Garg

@ACuriousMind Well, that's true. But I just found out that if I write my derivations and formulae as functions (like we do in code), it is a lot more readable and easier to understand.

alarge

Now that I mentioned sort algorithms, here's my favorite video on the matter.

Awal Garg

@alarge Ha! I am talking about things like q representing charge (I can't honestly imagine how that letter relates to charge unless some other language thing)...

don't we... like... run out of alphabets?

@dmckee I do agree, but for more complex cases, things kinda get out of hand. For instance, if I have to represent two masses, my teacher recommends us to use m1 and m2... I don't really find it intuitive.

dmckee

00:27

@AwalGarg Thus the greek, and the variaent ways to write the greek, and the caligraphic roman characters and the blackboard bold characters and even a few bit borrowed from Hebrew and Cyrillic.

@AwalGarg Think of it as an array. Indeed when we start working more general case we talk about a set of masses $m_i$ with $I = 1 \dots n$. and then start summing over things.

Of course, thinking is parallel arrays is discouraged by modern programing languages, but hey, I know Fortran 77.

Awal Garg

@dmckee Hmm, I agree. Thanks!

Yeah, basically I had this thought if we could study physics' mathematical side as code. Writing functions, reusing them, and descriptive variable names and stuff. I found the idea intriguing and wanted to know what people here would think about it. So, thoughts?

ACuriousMind

@AwalGarg You can cast any mathematical reasoning into (pseudo-)code. It tends to not be very enlightening.

dmckee

@AwalGarg ::shrug:: Even serious computationalists write traditional formulas when they want to explain ideas instead of implementations. Could just be habit, or there might be something to it. I know that I read math faster in the traditional form than in code.

Awal Garg

@dmckee Fair enough. I guess I just find code easier because of my code-fu.

@ACuriousMind not even readability?

alarge

I find it easier to see "symmetries" in written out mathematical form. For example, I might have a nested double loop in code and not immediately notice that it could be written as a single sum with some clever manipulation, whereas in mathematical form this might be more apparent. I think it's mostly due to my past experience doing lots and lots of algebra, though, and some might find these things easier to see in for loops.

ACuriousMind

00:40

@AwalGarg I don't find code more readable than a mathematical formula, and I suspect most physicists and mathematicians would agree

Awal Garg

@ACuriousMind I suspect the same :P Possibly because of conventions.

@alarge Depends on the programming language. Writing it in ruby would be fairly easy. Probably even better in Haskell.

user54412

01:22

@AwalGarg I think there's something to be said for brevity when it comes to digesting the equation as a whole, and I say this as someone who does at least as much coding as formula writing.

user54412

For instance, grabbing a random equation from my thesis, I have $$\Delta r \geq \sqrt{\Delta_+} - \sqrt{\Delta_-} + M \log\left(\frac{r_++\sqrt{\Delta_+}-M}{r_-+\sqrt{\Delta_-}-M}\right)$$

user54412

This would be a horrendously long line in code with descriptive variable names, or probably it would be broken into multiple lines

user54412

(I should know -- I have to code it)

user54412

And then the symmetry and intuition would not be visible at a glance

user54412

Also, it helps that writing has more characters, more ways to decorate characters (overlines, subscripts, etc.), and more ways to position them (fractions, etc.) -- so information can be encoded in more than just raw letters

bolbteppa

01:28

Any of you guys familiar with deriving the $\dfrac{C}{2}(1 - \cos(\eta))$ solution from the GR Friedmann equations?

Stan Shunpike

01:40

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut posted a new one. it's awesome. on my profile.

Alfred Centauri

@DanielSank It's your vote. As unlikely as it may be, it's possible that you may find an answer to an off-topic question helpful (to you). If I found such an answer useful (to me), I would up-vote it. If not, I would leave it alone. If it's just plain wrong, I would down-vote it. In other words, the fact that the associated question is off-topic would not be a factor (to me).

ManishEarth

01:59

@JohnRennie Yep

Physics Meta

05:35

0

Q: How can I log out?

My brother has opened an account at this wonderful site, I heard it is allowed to have different accounts, as long as you do not interact and do not upvote each other. Can you confirm this is perfectly OK? If, so can you tell me how to log out? I can't find a button

feature-request

Physics Meta

06:30

0

Q: serial voting reversed

I got a -70, yesterday. I had looked at all the answers previously because the count was way over the average. In all those answers I had been getting negative votes. So it was somebody agreeing with my point of view to mitigate the negatives. Does this happen with negative votes too? It is che...

discussion

Stan Shunpike

07:54

Noether's got a google doodle. Wahooooo!

NikolajK

08:35

@StanShunpike: She doesn't look like a particularly nice person, though.

but that pic is cool (maybe minus the formulas)

Stan Shunpike

08:54

@NikolajK was she a bad person lol?

NikolajK

I don't know. She looks like a strict teacher. I believe many of the famous people where personally a little bitter. For example, I love Wittgenstein, but I also read he hit his pupils.

@dmckee: There are heavily studied frameworks which are code and capable of capturing basically all the math we know, in particular

Intuitionistic type theory

Intuitionistic type theory (also known as constructive type theory, or Martin-Löf type theory) is a type theory and an alternative foundation of mathematics based on the principles of mathematical constructivism. Intuitionistic type theory was introduced by Per Martin-Löf, a Swedish mathematician and philosopher, in 1972. Martin-Löf has modified his proposal a few times; his 1971 impredicative formulation was inconsistent as demonstrated by Girard's paradox. Later formulations were predicative. He proposed both intensional and extensional variants of the theory. Intuitionistic type theory is based...

@AwalGarg: Related to the above, are you aware of

Curry–Howard correspondence

In programming language theory and proof theory, the Curry–Howard correspondence (also known as the Curry–Howard isomorphism or equivalence, or the proofs-as-programs and propositions- or formulae-as-types interpretation) is the direct relationship between computer programs and mathematical proofs. It is a generalization of a syntactic analogy between systems of formal logic and computational calculi that was first discovered by the American mathematician Haskell Curry and logician William Alvin Howard. It is the link between logic and computation that is usually attributed to Curry and Howard...

Stan Shunpike

10:05

@NikolajK well, we can celebrate her theorems instead of her

NikolajK

10:59

@StanShunpike: Don't get me wrong here, I didn't want to spread the rumor she wasn't the nicest cupcake. Just that seeing her pictures makes my imagine she's a strict adviser. Besides, people like Feynman are also hailed for their personality and rumor has it he bangs his PhD students wifes.

Stan Shunpike

11:22

@NikolajK wow. That's definitely worse than being crabby lolol. He had synesthesia. I wonder what having that would be like when you go to a topless bar. hahaha he used to say the equations jumped and dance around as he read or lectured so go only knows what it would do around dames.

God*

JamalS

13:05

Noether is on Google's front page for her bday!

3

Danu

13:19

@JamalS Hmm?

JamalS

@Danu ?

ACuriousMind

!

infinitesimal simplicio

,

Danu

~

Urgh, the google thing does misquote Einstein on Noether though

The real quote is: "Fräulein Noether was the most significant creative mathematical genius thus far produced since the higher education of women began."

While Google has: "Fräulein Noether was the most significant creative mathematical genius thus far produced"

Dat unjustified omission

JamalS

Indeed, it's a completely different meaning.

Danu

13:28

Einstein would've never said the latter

JamalS

^

infinitesimal simplicio

The general public doesn't care about stuff like that

They just want sound bites.

"Hey, did you hear Einstein thought a woman was the greatest mathematian"

Danu

13:43

I know

Which is why Google has a responsibility not to mess that up

infinitesimal simplicio

Google is coming out with a competitor for the iWatch.

The gold plated iWatch is going for $22,000 US

Jiminion

14:11

@NikolajK Is this related to the "Curley Howard correspondence" ? (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk...)

ACuriousMind

@Danu Where is the quote? I don't see any quote at all

JamalS

@KyleKanos Hi

Jiminion

@ACuriousMind google.com/doodles/emmy-noethers-133rd-birthday

ACuriousMind

@Jiminion Ah...how do I get to that page from google's frontpage, though? Clicking on Noether just googles her normally

Jiminion

It was the 4th item for me when I clicked on the doodle.

ACuriousMind

14:22

Nope, not seeing it

NikolajK

@Jiminion: Is what related? Also, what does nyuk mean, or how does it sound?

Jiminion

@NikolajK It was a joke relating to the 3 stooges. Curley was one of the stooges and he would say that.

infinitesimal simplicio

The sound of a corny laugh.

Jiminion

@ACuriousMind Well, it's the posting for the google doodle. Are you using chrome?

ACuriousMind

lol...I didn't even know mods could place chatrooms in timeout. Following flags is fun

@Jiminion Nah, firefox

NikolajK

14:25

@Jiminion: Okay. Did you answer my first question?

infinitesimal simplicio

@ACuriousMind was this room in time out?

Jimnosperm

@ACuriousMind Who got a time out?

ACuriousMind

@Jimnosperm The game developers

Jimnosperm

Go figure

infinitesimal simplicio

Has this room ever been placed in time out?

ACuriousMind

14:27

They weren't being...particularly nice to each other, I gather

@infinitesimalsimplicio Not that I'd know, so not in the last eight months :P

infinitesimal simplicio

The math room has :(

ACuriousMind

About 2/3 of all flags I get come from math, I'm not surprised.

infinitesimal simplicio

About a year ago it got really ugly.

Jiminion

Ugh, what's a time out? Like we are little kids and need to calm down?

ACuriousMind

@Jiminion Exactly.

2

infinitesimal simplicio

14:29

I had to call in skullpatrol but it was too late.

Jiminion

@NikolajK I think so. Some vintage curley: dailymotion.com/video/…

@ACuriousMind Ugh, if I ever get close to that, let me know and I will bow out....

infinitesimal simplicio

It is tough in the heat of battle.

ACuriousMind

@Jiminion I don't think anyone in this room is in danger of needing a timeout ;)

NikolajK

@Jiminion: You asked "Is this related to the "Curley Howard correspondence?" I ask: Is what related to it?

infinitesimal simplicio

It's just best to leave the keyboard when you feel threatened.

Jiminion

14:32

@NikolajK Curry-Howard , like I said, just a joke.

NikolajK

Seems to be an American thing..

infinitesimal simplicio

Yes, the three stooges are an American thing :-)

Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk ~ He, He, He

Kyle Kanos

@JamalS Hi

JamalS

Hi, I just have a quick C++ thing that was bugging me. Consider a contrived example: string join(string&& rv, const char * ptr){ return move(rv.append(", ").append(ptr)); }

Why does one need to explicitly state move()?

The variable rv is local, and will expire once exiting the function, so it's perfectly fine to move from it, and move() is not necessary, even though it isn't an rvalue (though it is initialized by an rvalue).

infinitesimal simplicio

@ACuriousMind the English Language & Usage chat room is much worse than the math room.

Jiminion

14:38

@JamalS You mean define it? Because the default is int and it seems to be a void in your case. Also C++ wants you to be explicit with everything anyway.

ACuriousMind

@infinitesimalsimplicio Good thing I don't visit it, then ;)

infinitesimal simplicio

:)

Jimnosperm

@infinitesimalsimplicio Probably all critiquing each other's grammar and word use

infinitesimal simplicio

Indeed.

Kyle Kanos

I don't know C++ enough to answer this rightfully, but it seems to me that it is moving the string from ptr and putting it into the rv.

But I don't really know what it does

JamalS

14:41

@KyleKanos Do you know what l/r values are?

Kyle Kanos

Uh, no

infinitesimal simplicio

As an example @Jimnosperm the correct word is "usage" not "use" };-)

JamalS

Oh, okay... move() turns things into rvalues...

@KyleKanos Essentially, an lvalue is something you can take the address of, e.g. int x = 5, x would be the lvalue. In this case, 5 itself would be the rvalue because it's a temporary, and you cannot take the address of it.

Kyle Kanos

Well that's a rather silly terminology.

JamalS

The point of move(...) is to make things rvalues when it's safe to move them into something else, rather than copy, which can give a performance boost.

@KyleKanos It's because one is on the left, hence the l, and the other on the right. I didn't make it up...

(Though, the left/right is not always the case.)

Kyle Kanos

14:43

@JamalS I know, it's on the internet too.

(I googled it after you mentioned it)

JamalS

Anyway, the reason I was perplexed by my example is because the C++14 standard specifies that compilers can implement unnamed/named return value optimizations that move instead of copy, without the use of move(...) in certain cases, and so it seemed like the move(...) in this case was superfluous. I'll ask on SO chat.

Kyle Kanos

You could get a billion rep on SO if you just asked if it was superfluous

JamalS

haha

alarge

When the compiler can do NRVO (local variables), you actually shouldn't use move.

But when you do use move in your case you'll know for certain that it'll be moved (if the type is moveable). Not all compilers may be able to elide the copy. I'm not sure if in practice that's going to have much of an effect (i.e. it could be that most compilers indeed don't do the copy there, but you could write tests just in case).

JamalS

@alarge I know the effect is bound to be minuscule - I did describe the example as contrived. Regardless of performance effects, I would still do it for 'correctness' though, if it is.

alarge

14:52

And you'd be right to do it for correctness.

JamalS

@alarge Am I correct in assuming the compiler can't move automatically through optimizations if the return value type can be cast to the function type, but is not precisely the type?

alarge

That I don't know, you'd need to consult the standard.

I wrote a quick test with a custom type and it seems that the copy constructor is called (g++ -O3) unless I explicitly call std::move. This even for the trivial case with no casts.

JamalS

Good to know - thanks.

Danu

15:49

@ACuriousMind google.com/doodles/emmy-noethers-133rd-birthday

Oh, you already saw it

@infinitesimalsimplicio They're really a bunch of a-holes over there :P

Joe Stavitsky

there is no "official standard format" for fbds?

David Z

fbds = free body diagrams?

There is not

Joe Stavitsky

@DavidZ, ok ty, cause the text has like dashed lines and solid lines and colored lines pretty much at random

and since I type my homework I wanted to make sure I did it right

Danu

16:43

There's probably some latex package for them

infinitesimal simplicio

Yep, they are good at trolling too :-) @danu

NeuroFuzzy

17:06

I got a gold medal on stackexchange! Woo!

And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt

infinitesimal simplicio

17:26

:D

Stan Shunpike

@infinitesimalsimplicio lol how did you come across that?

infinitesimal simplicio

Google image search "and all I got was this ..."

Stan Shunpike

Lolol random Google image searches can be unpredictable if you have safe search off.

infinitesimal simplicio

Use quotation marks.

Stan Shunpike

True, that helps

You're very unlikely to get something weird if you type something quite specific and use quotes.

infinitesimal simplicio

17:38

Exactly

ACuriousMind

Mar 18 at 19:16, by NeuroFuzzy

I was trying to look up the rho symbol my book uses (turns out it was $\varrho$ or some font variant of that) and so I googled "curvy rho" without thinking and got a porn star...

infinitesimal simplicio

I always start with quotation marks

There's still too much porn on the web.

There always will be.

It was the first Internet business that made a profit

iirc

Stan Shunpike

@infinitesimalsimplicio that's exactly the problem. You can google anything and it can come up.

Its actually a very weird phenomena now that I think about it, but I suppose algorithms can always be imprecise at times.

ACuriousMind

Pet peeve of mine, phenomena is plural, phenomenon is the singular.

Stan Shunpike

17:54

@ACuriousMind That's good to know! Then I'm making that mistake everywhere

ACuriousMind

You're not alone, I see many people using phenomena for the singular

Danu

@infinitesimalsimplicio You think it's getting less? LOL

Also, why "too" much? WHat's so bad about it?

infinitesimal simplicio

Children have access

ACuriousMind

:O

infinitesimal simplicio

-__-

ACuriousMind

17:58

The Simpsons - Helen Lovejoy - Think of the children

►

Stan Shunpike

And some of it's messed up. Child pornography. The weird kinky stuff. Like some of it isn't acceptable. So clearly there is too much if you interpret it that way.

ACuriousMind

I can't but imagine that Simpsons scene every time someone makes an argument involving children, no matter its validity

infinitesimal simplicio

The Simpsons is a cartoon

Danu

There is Simpsons porn, too

infinitesimal simplicio

Porn is everywhere

Danu

18:01

I can't say I really mind it. Of course, I don't endorse child pornography or anything like that... but good ol' legal porn? Why not!

infinitesimal simplicio

There are limits

ACuriousMind

@Danu "good ol' legal porn"...you mean, with lawyers and stuff?

Danu

@ACuriousMind Ehh... Don't put words in my mouth!

Stan Shunpike

LOL

Danu

(best intro line ever, to a lawyer porn scene)

infinitesimal simplicio

18:03

The jury goes out does what?

Stan Shunpike

Everybody

infinitesimal simplicio

All 12 of them

It gives new meaning to the classic movie 12 angry men

Danu

Hehehe.

infinitesimal simplicio

One of my favourite movies of all time.

Danu

Also, this classic video

The Internet Is For Porn - HQ - Avenue Q - Original Broadway Cast

►

It's really cheap, but while we're at porn jokes n stuff...

Stan Shunpike

18:06

Alrighty, I'm off to do something productive. Guess I will plan out which lectures I'm going to watch. :) bbl

infinitesimal simplicio

Later pal

Stan Shunpike

18:44

@bolbteppa you gave me a list of lectures to watch. The order made sense except you listed Quantum Entanglement before Quantum Mechanics. Was that intentional?

Danu

@StanShunpike I suggest trial and error

Stan Shunpike

19:08

@Danu with what? You mean the order?

@Danu I thought the whole point was to do it in a particular order...

I started the classical mechanics ones this morning.

Danu

You will very quickly be able to ascertain whether the entanglement ones need QM

bolbteppa

19:25

@StanShunpike I think I explained in a comment beside the list that the entanglement videos do more explicit examples, I remember like really explicit stuff in those but not in the direct QM lectures, and he referred to the entanglement videos as saying he already did some easier stuff in those that he wont do again

@StanShunpike awesome, how do you find the mechanics videos? Don't forget these notes lecture-notes.co.uk/susskind/classical-mechanics (though they might be from the old version of the course)

T Abraham

21:12

Hello everyone !

I'm back!

who remembers me? @vzn @alarge @MarkMitchison @Danu @KyleKanos @ACuriousMind

It's great to be back!

One thing I know has changed, @vzn and my rooms have been frozen

Is there anyway to unfreeze a room? @dmckee

ACuriousMind

Yeah, moderators can unfreeze rooms

Also, you're the "plant guy", right? ;)

T Abraham

@ACuriousMind yes.. made significant progress on that project...

Stan Shunpike

@bolbteppa Very interesting. I like the distinction between a discrete det of configuration states (eg head tails) and a continuous one (like position and velocity). It makes me wonder about applications to music theory. But he also makes a good point about what determinism means and how this connects to conservation laws.

@bolbteppa I'm not sure I appreciated those were related. Perhaps that's hwy I am having difficulty grasping Noether's theorem.

T Abraham

@ACuriousMind you'be seen @MarkMitchison ?

ACuriousMind

21:28

@TAbraham He is around, but I haven't seen him in chat lately, no

T Abraham

@ACuriousMind sad..

Stan Shunpike

He helped me out a lot 3 days ago or something like that

ACuriousMind

He seems to have been in here less than two days ago, given that his name shows up as an autocompletion

ACuriousMind

21:47

What is the quantum-theory tag for?

2

It seems very superfluous given the two more specific tags quantum-mechanics and quantum-field-theory.

Qmechanic

22:03

@ACuriousMind : Mostly a hassle. Should we make it a synonym of QM?

ACuriousMind

@Qmechanic Yes, looking at the few questions tagged with it I think it is a synonym of QM already in practice.

Qmechanic

@ACuriousMind : Done.

0celo7

@StanShunpike Yes.

ACuriousMind

@Qmechanic Very good, thanks!

0celo7

@ACuriousMind Two stars for "exactly"...interesting.

ACuriousMind

22:14

@0celo7 Sometimes, less words are more ;)

...or is it fewer?

Stan Shunpike

@ACuriousMind Conciser is nicer

0celo7

Fewer, but that's English teacher tier.

Stan Shunpike

Is a differential form merely a $k$-tensor that is antisymmetric under an exchange on any pair of indices? Is that the only additional property besides being a $k$-tensor?

Of*

ACuriousMind

Yep

@0celo7 Is it perceived as pedantic to make that distinction?

0celo7

@StanShunpike Yes, also note that if $\operatorname{dim}M=n$, then $\Omega^p(M)=\{0\}$ for $p>n$.

@ACuriousMind Oh yeah.

At least in my circles.

Whatever that means.

ACuriousMind

22:25

Heh, thought so

Stan Shunpike

What is $\Omega$?

0celo7

@StanShunpike Vector space of $p$-forms.

Stan Shunpike

Ah, okay. I get it. Cool, that's interesting. I think I read that too.

0celo7

@StanShunpike The computations are more tedious, that's for sure.

Stan Shunpike

Computations of what?

0celo7

22:33

I referenced a post.

Stan Shunpike

Ah, hang on

I figured out how to do the arrow thing on mobile

0celo7

Ooh, do tell!

Also I think that QFT actively draws on more prerequisite material than GR, at least if you're reading undergrad GR.

If you get a GR book that also covers SR well, it's pretty self-contained.

I get the feeling that QFT is less self-contained.

Stan Shunpike

Well, its a bit inconvenient, but you can click the menu button on the left. When you do, it has a button that says full site. So that takes you to the normal chat you see on your PC. And the arrow thing works. Then when u are done, go to the bottom right and click mobile and it goes back.

@0celo7 I think you summarized it exactly

I think that's why I underestimated how much background QFT may need of different areas.

0celo7

@StanShunpike I don't think that the mathematics is harder in GR or QFT...you can get a lot of abstraction in both.

Stan Shunpike

I didn't say one was harder.

I just meant that QFT seems more spread out over a variety of tools.

0celo7

22:37

@StanShunpike I didn't say you said that, I'm just commenting.

Stan Shunpike

Oh, touche

Without the accent it looks like t-ouch

0celo7

@JamalS What did you use to learn representation theory on the level required for Becker, Becker and Schwarz?

Stan Shunpike

@0celo7 can you always establish a coordinate frame / system on an affine space?

0celo7

@StanShunpike That's a question for @ACuriousMind, not me.

ACuriousMind

::looks around nervously:: Who, me? Coordinate systems?

@StanShunpike: What do you mean by "establish a coordinate system on an affine space"?

Stan Shunpike

22:43

Pick an origin?

ACuriousMind

@StanShunpike Yeah, any point is an allowed origin, that's kinda the... point of affine spaces ;)

2

Stan Shunpike

Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. Does that mean there are no basis vectors used to define points in an affine space? I mean, its not a vector space so I suppose not.

Hahaha

ACuriousMind

I actually only ever think of "affine space" as "vector space where I've forgotten the origin". I think that's pretty much what they are.

Stan Shunpike

Does that mean it has basis vectors? How can you have canonical basis vectors without an origin? They are usually centered at the origin. Although, I have never seen anyone need the origin to define a canonical basis, so I don't know why it would matter. I just have trouble visualizing basis vectors without it.

ACuriousMind

@StanShunpike It doesn't have basis vectors in a direct sense, no, because it is not a vector space. Yet, it has a notion of translating its elements by vectors of the vector space it is modelled on, and one could say that the basis vectors of that space give "basis directions" in the affine space.

The distinction between affine and vector space is kinda ridiculous, because the only difference is really that one has an origin and the other hasn't

Stan Shunpike

23:01

@0celo7 Finished a new song yesterday. It's sick. Check it out if you get a chance. Link is on my SE profile.

I based it on this song from a movie Frozen.

0celo7

@StanShunpike I'm typing up a script for a sketch about an ethical dilemma.

Stan Shunpike

I actually haven't seen the movie. I saw the song while at Costco

0celo7

No music today.

Stan Shunpike

What kind of ethical dilemma?

0celo7

Kid with PTSD killed his step father because he had a flashback to when we was being abused.

Stan Shunpike

23:02

Wow! Intense!

Jeez

0celo7

However, the evidence for him having PTSD is inconclusive.

Stan Shunpike

What is this for?

0celo7

It's an intro to the much bigger issue of how mentally ill individuals are treated in the justice system.

Stan Shunpike

Is this ur psych class?

0celo7

A leadership seminar that I'm taking.

Stan Shunpike

23:03

Oh, lol

0celo7

We're discussing ethics.

Stan Shunpike

Huh, they should have 50 Shades of Morally Gray seminar. I heard that movie is dicey in terms of ethics.

0celo7

Would ACLU take on that case?

YOLO

@StanShunpike Oooh, I can make the prosecution claim an Oedipus complex.

He killed his stepfather because he is love with his mother.

Stan Shunpike

Classic

Although, I'm not sure that qualifies as mentally ill.

0celo7

Perhaps having that complex can interfere with the testing for PTSD though

Stan Shunpike

23:18

Not that I know anything, but I would guess it depends on the behavioral symptoms, wouldnt you think? Like, if he displays symptoms like..
disrupted sleep or there's evidence in writing...stuff that's provable, then you could make a case for having an unusally strong version that would interfere.

@bolbteppa another thing his coin configuration space reminded me of was permutation groups and FSMs.

0celo7

Are there judges in all criminal cases?

Who actually decides if an insanity plea is allowable?

Stan Shunpike

law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense related (yeah I just pulled a QMechanic :p)

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