The h Bar

Morning!

user228700

What's up?

Quiet this morning

I'm just checking what servers have died overnight, but so far things look OK.

user228700

Cool :-)

You still at your gran's?

user228700

5:00 AM

I've just woken up from two, separate, extensive dreams!

user228700

Yep, yep. We leave tomorrow.

Occasionally I get really long vivd dreams and they're generally good fun.

You get the occasional dream that ends up slightly dark, but I generally wake up before it gets too scary.

user228700

Haha, that's a nice ability to have! :-)

user228700

Mine weren't scary at all; one was set in a landscape which was a mixture of the Portal games, Dunkirk and it even involved this guy.

user228700

The other one was about what it would be like if robots took over the HP world.

5:06 AM

HP?

user228700

Harry Potter.

Right, right.

Have read the entire series?

user228700

Yep.

user228700

@JohnR: Did you make Maggi yet?

user228700

@TheRaidersofLasVegas Clearly, you haven't :-P

5:09 AM

@Kaumudi.H no. Yesterday was a subdued day. I just had a vegetable risotto and an early night. I decided to postpone the weekend one day so I'll have a big meal today and Monday.

I haven't even seen any of the movies.

user228700

@JohnRennie Oh. Subdued day?

I went out on Friday night with some friends. It ended up being a late night.

user228700

Ah, right, u'd told. I see. A vegetable risotto doesn't sound so bad :-)

user228700

Say, what does a hangover feel like? (Seeing as I'm never going to have one, might as well find out by asking)

user228700

5:12 AM

> postpone the weekend

user228700

Only you can do such things! :-)

Have you ever had a really, really bad cold? As in headache, aching limbs, really tired?

user228700

I had one yesterday!

Well to that add nausea and you have pretty much described a hangover.

user228700

Oh, no, that does sound like an absolutely rubbish time.

5:14 AM

Yes, yesterday was a bit of a blur. I got up about midday, made lunch, collapsed into my armchair then went to bed about eight.

I don't recommend it :-)

user228700

Oh, sheesh. How do u feel today?

I still feel a bit tired this morning, but fine apart from that.

I shall definitely attempt the biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig lunch today :-)

user228700

Haha, OK!

How are the tonsils BTW? I saw in the chat log you'd been bit unwell.

user228700

I'm still recovering from tonsillitis :-(

5:17 AM

:-(
At least the PSE chat doesn't require you to talk ...

user228700

They're better than yesterday but still a little swollen.

user228700

Haha, yes, at least I have that!

user228700

In this sort of weather, I'm going to have tonsillitis every other day!

What is the weather like?

user228700

I'm incredibly scared if I really will, at Kochi. Hopefully, it won't be too long before my body adapts.

user228700

5:20 AM

The weather is actually quite pleasant too! It rains for a bit almost everyday so it's comparatively cooler.

user228700

...which makes the temperature of the water I drink drop by a few degrees, as a result of which my tonsils get swollen.

Hmm. I guess it's a matter of seeing how it works out.

user228700

Yep :-/

Any plans for your last few days of freedom?

Last two days!

user228700

Haha, no, not really :-) This will sound a bit absurd but the homesickness has been wearing off more and more as the days close in on Orientation day.

5:27 AM

Doesn't sound absurd at all.

Homesickness does wear off.

If it didn't we'd never be able to go anywhere :-)

user228700

Haha, yes, I s'pose :-)

user228700

I drove the scooter a bit more yesterday and today, I plan on driving it a lot more; there's a scenic road here, leading to a whole other town and if one travels for awhile along said road, the road starts to run parallel to a beautiful river! I plan on getting to that point today.

That sounds great. Having the freedom to just drive around by yourself is wonderful.

Will you take the test to get a scooter licence?

user228700

I will, yes! Only in September tho :-/ I decided that I'll ask my father if he'd send the cycle via train instead of me having to go back in two weeks. And the debit card I'll collect in Sept.

user228700

...for all the driving around, however, I must find the strength to get out of bed and do all of the things :'-(

5:31 AM

Is the weather in there the same as the weather in Pune? In that case it must be crummy.

I suspect the monsoon is heavier there.

user228700

I have absolutely no idea what the weather at Pune is like, at the moment :-/

It's at 23-25 degrees and rains pretty much literally whenever. Not hard shit rain, but like, flakes of rain.

Lots of wind.

user228700

You know what tonsillitis feels like? It feels like a rat has made a nest in ur throat and is scampering about. And u have a cold, ur whole body aches and u feel like dying.

damn

user228700

@BalarkaSen Oh, it's not that bad now; 31 deg., it seems and it does rain but not "pretty much literally whenever".

5:34 AM

i have had massive cold allergies when i was young so i can sympathize somewhat

try not to die maybe

@Kaumudi ah ok

user228700

@BalarkaSen Oh, crap, I see :-/ That also sounds pretty bad.

user228700

@BalarkaSen Lol, thanks :-P I'll try.

user228700

@Balarka: The workshop was good?

I learnt a bunch of stuff, and I know what to learn this year

user228700

Oh, cool :-) It was worth it, then(?)

5:41 AM

It was very nice, yup. I don't regret going there.

user228700

Nice :-)

saw weird people tho

user228700

Haha, how do u mean?

a flock of CMI people came in here and they are weird

I became friends with a guy who smokes pot and reads books

user228700

x'D I see. I'm curious: what can possibly be your definition of "weird"? :-P

5:45 AM

Better than smoking books and reading pot I suppose :-)

@JohnRennie Kind of what I do

Yes, smoking books on algebraic geometry always gets me high too :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie It hurts to laugh but lol x'D

This is psychedelic

so, yeah

user228700

Dang, I see.

user228700

5:49 AM

OK, so my mom is shouting at me, so gotta go, I think. Bye :-(

Bye. Have a good ride.

Dawood ibn Kareem

6:59 AM

@BalarkaSen Don't let him corrupt you with all that book-reading.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie That's not always true. Look at Shuji Nakamura, for example.

Anonymous

7:15 AM

@BalarkaSen Cool! Could you tell me how you applied for the workshop? (and how you came to know about it) I'm looking for some upcoming physics workshops related to photonics or qm.

@Blue I had no idea before I was told there was this workshop by one of the conveners, and I filled in the form I was given. One needs to be a BSc student but since at least two of the conveners know me personally I got in.

That's pretty much it.

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen :O How come the coveners of a workshop in Pune knew you? Do they live near your place or had previous contacts with you?

They are professors in TIFR, so not quite from Pune. I met one of them once upon a long time ago, and pretty regularly converse with him.

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen converse via mail? And where did you meet one of them?

It's an NCM workshop, jointly organized by TIFR + IIT Bombay.

Yes. Well he used to teach at RKMVU.

Anonymous

7:24 AM

@BalarkaSen Aha, I see

Anonymous

You're lucky :P

Anonymous

Anyhow I guess should keep a tab on their website to check upcoming workshops

which website?

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen tifr website

oh

well the ATM page has a lot of workshops listed on them

but they're all on math, because well :p

ATM = Advanced Training in Mathematics

Anonymous

7:29 AM

Actually building contacts is the tough part. I mailed nearly 100 professors who are working in my areas of interest in India. One 5-6 of them replied back :P

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen I see

I could have helped if you wanted to talk to mathematical persons. I don't know any physicist as well

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen If I ever need I'll let you know. Thanks BTW :)

Anonymous

Anyhow those 5-6 profs told me what to study this year in physics so that I can take part in some project next summer. Let's see!

Noice

8:00 AM

@BalarkaSen Absolutely terrible taste in rap you have, Balarka

Highly upsetting

@Avantgarde I only listen to the very best.

Try this. Not rap, of course, but something weird.

Bowie again

heheh

Mr. Bungle - California (1999) [Full Album]

I definitely get the appeal of this weird music. I think you will like Mike Patton's projects.

let me see..

►

hm hm hm let me see

Bowie-Eno's "Lodger" influenced Byrne-Eno's "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts", by the way

@Avantgarde dude they start doing weird shit at the very first song

8:21 AM

@BalarkaSen Yep, that's what Mike does. He helped pioneer avantgarde metal. This album is the easiest to listen by Mr. Bungle. Their other 2 albums are weirder. He has a crazy vocal range and can do pop, rap and metal all in a single song

i can see him shifting between various genres in-song

weeeiird

Weird's good :)

tru

i can't tell if the second song is death metal, spaghetti western soundtrack or what

haha

WEll do you like it?

i am an open minded guy, of course i do

8:29 AM

Enjoy then! It's a pretty fun album

mhm

Oh, did I tell you I listened to Eloy's "Ocean" in full a few days ago?

i think you linked it to me

I did, yes. Enjoyed the journey?

That was probably the first album I linked to you lol

Very much. There's something magical about that album.

yeah I can be slow at looking at song reco's

Yes! It was my favorite by them too

that's ok

do you know any other spacey, mythical, psychedelic metal stuff like that?

maybe that's too general a question

8:33 AM

You can check out the other albums by Eloy. Colours was a nice album that I enjoyed.

I also shared a song by Hawkwind, which played space rock. They had that spacey feel.

You'll have to check them out yourself though, as I haven't really listened to them either.

Ah, yes, you did.

@Avantgarde Have you heard anything by Captain Beefheart? That is ... weird :-)

You should first go through Eloy. They had quite a few albums.

@JohnRennie I seem to have heard the name somewhere .. I can't really recall though. let me see

Trout Mask Replica is probably the weirdest album

@Avantgarde Okizay

Ozric Tentacles - Erpland [Full Album]

8:39 AM

@JohnRennie Sounds pretty weird, that too for 1969

@Balarka Ozric Tentacles is a band that might give you the spacey, psychedelic sound. There's a lot of electronica going into their music though. And there are no vocals, only instrumental

►

Also high on the weird scale is anything by King Crimson and a lot of Van der Graaf Generator.

@Avantgarde Interesting.

Hawkwind, Eloy, Ozric Tentacles etc are all bands I grew up with. They are all kind of in the Hawkwind camp i.e. Hawkwind fans tend to like them too (Hawkwind is probably my favourite band).

Yeah. I liked King Crimson, but back in the day was not able to comprehend Van der Graaf Generator

Aha, John would probably be able to help you out more here then @Balarka

Yeah, they're all in the same camp

If you like that sort of music I can recommend you an Internet radio station ...

8:47 AM

Sure

This one

He does two shows. One prog rock and one more general, though still pretty proggy.

Can I talk about something almost entirely unrelated to physics?

lots of space rock in there. Thanks.

Just... bit excited/nervous about new job starting tuesday. ;D

Congratulations dj

8:50 AM

Well, promotion into new role....

ty

Huh nice, @JohnRennie

@djsmiley2k What's the new job?

I gotta head out. Later.

See ya.

Bye

8:51 AM

Cya

user228700

@Balarka: You know about Lonelygirl15, don't ya?

56 secs ago, by Avantgarde

I gotta head out. Later.

Maybe you guys/girls can advise how you go about changing your... working mind to a new role

@JohnRennie moving from service desk, to networks

Excellent! No more having to deal with end users :-)

=)

8:52 AM

Don't forget where you came from.

The ability of end users to come up with new ways to do bizarre things is quite astonishing!

Tbh we deal with a large number of different companies, and so even in networks there's a lot of end users hehe

@TheRaidersofLasVegas nod, indeed

user228700

@JohnRennie Sorry about that; I hit enter before I had finished typing.

I gave the desk a gift of two scripts, which have reduced a 5 hour overnight task, to a case of 'click here, come back in 5 hours and check the log'

user228700

Lonelygirl15

lonelygirl15 is an interactive web series that ran from June 2006 to August 1, 2008. Developed under the working title The Children of Anchor Cove (by the creators of what later became EQAL), the show gained worldwide media attention when it was outed as fictional in September 2006. == Overview == lonelygirl15 focuses on the life of a teenage girl named Bree, whose YouTube username is the eponymous "lonelygirl15". However, the show did not initially reveal its fictional nature to its audience. After the fictional status of the show was revealed in September 2006, it gradually evolved into a multi...

8:54 AM

@Kaumudi.H at least here you can go back and edit mistakes - GCHAT ARE YOU LISTENING?!!!

user228700

Hahaha :-)

Yeah, gchat is a pain.

@Kaumudi.H I don't think so.

@djsmiley2k network management/server monitoring is what I mainly do.

Judging by the title of the channel, should I?

user228700

8:55 AM

@BalarkaSen Read the Wiki description :-)

user228700

It was a huge deal back in the day, it seems.

2006 is back in the day?

So it's a complicated youtube story series?

user228700

In YouTube years, yep.

user228700

@BalarkaSen Alternatively, just watch this.

8:57 AM

icic

user228700

I haven't watched the whole thing either; just thought you might find it interesting, that's all.

looks fun

i still stick to watching shitty instant regret videos though

all my life i have been interested in trash exclusively, and i don't want that to change

@JohnRennie I've done a lot in the past

but for various reasons I ended back up on a service desk at this place.

user228700

@BalarkaSen Ever?

lol

trash?

youtube.com/watch?v=DQQT8syx4iU ftw

user228700

9:08 AM

@JohnR:

user228700

> I used to be a keen photographer

user228700

Really?

@Kaumudi.H I think I was more interested in the technical side of it - doing my own developing and printing.

user228700

@djsmiley2k Hello Internet, hmm, isn't that the podcast hosted by CGP Grey and that guy from Numberphile, Brady?

When it comes to the actual taking of pictures I don't think I showed any great talent, though I did win a camera in a photo competition when I was 16.

user228700

9:10 AM

@JohnRennie Ah, I see.

user228700

Is it any good?

@Kaumudi.H yup

user228700

@JohnRennie Oooh, nice! :-)

@Kaumudi.H I'm personally a huge fan of it, but I'm a Tim, so maybe that's just destiny. ;D

user228700

...I'm afraid I didn't understand that.

9:12 AM

@djsmiley2k much better than anything i watch

@Kaumudi.H doing your own development is quite good fun, though I suspect it's a dying art in these days of digital cameras. These days it's more doing your own Photoshopping!

Toyota Corolla - The Book

►

user228700

@JohnRennie Ah, right, of course :-)

user228700

I can't drive today, BTW: all the shops (including the petrol bunk) are closed so I can't fill up the scooter.

Shops close in India on Sunday?

Presumably Sunday has no special status in the Hindu religion?

user228700

9:15 AM

No, no, there's a bandh across Kerala today.

Ah

user228700

@JohnRennie Not that I'm aware of, no.

Dawood ibn Kareem

@JohnRennie Sunday is dedicated to Lord Surya, the Hindu sun god.

user228700

Dang, I wish I had taken the time to watch some Rick and Morty while I still had that Netflix subscription :'-(

Have you seen Rick and Morty before?

user228700

9:24 AM

Only bits and what I did watch, I loved.

Ah OK. I must admit I'm not fan.

If you want a copy of e.g. the first series that could be arranged :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie Wut, why not?

user228700

@JohnRennie :-D My internet speed is incredibly slow but we could give it a try! Why do u have 'em if you're not a fan?

I thought it was a bit shouty and not as witty as it thinks it is.

The skit on Back to the Future wears thin very quickly.

user228700

Hmm.

user228700

9:26 AM

I'm willing to give it a try anyway!

@Kaumudi.H I don't have them but I could get them.

user228700

:-D Hehe, OK, then!

user228700

(Seeing as you pointed out that my notion of "trouble" is a little exaggerated)

@Kaumudi.H Leave it with me and I'll ping you when I have news.

user228700

OK :-) Thank you!

9:34 AM

Shall I resample them down to small file size? Each episode is about 100MB, which might be a bit much if your Internet is slow.

user228700

Oh, erm, yep, that would be great!

:O can I get em too? :D

@Kaumudi.H gchat?

(partially joking)

user228700

OK!

9:46 AM

but if you've got a server somewhere or something, I have... ways

Dawood ibn Kareem

10:05 AM

@JohnRennie LOL

user228700

@DawoodibnKareem Hmm?

@JohnRennie I thought the same thing after watching the first few episodes, but I think it becomes much better after its initial trouble to find its tone.

@ACuriousMind Maybe I should perserve with it ...

Q: Confusion between static friction and normal force

10:21 AM

Please see if you can answer this:

0

Consider this situation given in Principles of Physics: Push horizontally on a heavy crate. The crate doesn't move. From Newton's second law, a second force must also be acting on the crate to counteract your force. Moreover, this second force must be directed opposite your force and have the...

user228700

> However, I am not in agreement with this because I feel that "second force" is the normal force exerted by the crate on me which is equal to the force that I exert on the crate

user228700

Why have you come to this conclusion?

@Abcd Could it be that you are confusing Newton's second law - $F=ma$ - with Newton's third law that every force has an equal and opposite reaction force?

user228700

^

user228700

@Abcd: Sure enough, the crate does exert an equal and opposite force on you. However, the question to be asked is Why is the crate remaining still? Are you able to answer this question?

10:30 AM

@ACuriousMind Edited. '

@Kaumudi.H Yes, because net force is zero on the crate, isn't it?

@Abcd That doesn't make it any clearer - why are you applying the 3rd law when the text tells you to apply the second? The force the crate exerts on you has nothing to do with the crate remaining still.

user228700

@Abcd Exactly, yes. What are the different forces (of which you know) acting on the crate?

That is, your application of the 3rd law is correct, it just hasn't got anything to do with what the text you quote is talking about.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

we're gonna say it's a force, and it isn't

-_-;

/me cries

@djsmiley2k What?

10:31 AM

gravity?

...

user228700

@djsmiley2k Huh?

:D

Or is that not what we are thinking about...

@Kaumudi.H The force I exert which is equal to the force being exerted on me and the gravitational force

/me forgets all the laws

user228700

@Abcd Good. How do these two forces add up (vectorially)?

10:33 AM

Oooo

it's the wheelbarrow question -- is it better to push, or pull, energy wise.

@Kaumudi.H To give a resultant R in the diagonal direction.

user228700

Alright. If that is indeed the case, why isn't the crate moving in that direction? Why do you think?

user228700

(Take this opportunity to recall the second law)

@Kaumudi.H Because Gravitational force is balanced by the normal force from surface of contact and my force is balanced by the normal force on me.

user228700

Ah, there's the confusion! The third law states that "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." However, one of the most crucial points to understand here is that both the action and the reaction forces don't act on the same object.

10:37 AM

@Abcd there are four forces involved:

user228700

@JohnR: Give me a chance! I've been accused of being a bad teacher before and I am hoping to have improved.

1. the force you exert on the cupboard
2. the force the floor exerts on your shoes
3. the force the cupboard exerts on you
4. the force the floor exerts on the base of the cupboard

@Kaumudi.H Diagrams are always helpful :p

@Kaumudi.H OK, over to you :-)

user228700

@Abcd: When we consider the force equation, the term on the left side, $F_{net}$ is the sum of all the forces acting on the object in question. When you said "Because Gravitational force is balanced by the normal force from surface of contact and my force is balanced by the normal force on me.", what you did, essentially, is add up all the forces in the situation even though two of them weren't acting on the crate itself.

10:40 AM

@Kaumudi.H Oh, right...

user228700

Let's take help from generous Dr. John's (:-P) diagram.

i need to do physics, i have exams incoming

@Kaumudi.H yes

user228700

When you apply a horizontal force on the crate, the "opposite reaction force" is acting on you, and not the crate itself.

Right.

user228700

10:44 AM

Sorry about that; allow me to word it a little better.

okay

user228700

Ugh, I keep on messing up. One moment...

user228700

The crate does experience a downward pull due to gravity and this force is counteracted by the normal force acting on it, exerted by the floor.

user228700

(If you are confused by the definitions of some of these terms, I urge you to read this)

user228700

@Abcd: Now that we have this sorted, can you tell me, again, what you think the forces acting on the crate are?

10:51 AM

@Kaumudi.H what about the other counteracted forces?

user228700

You're halfway there; the force due to gravity, as I said before, is counteracted by the normal force applied on it by the table so you must mention this force as well!

@Kaumudi.H Normal force, gravitational force, frictional force, force exerted by me

user228700

Yes! Alright, now, why did you think to add "frictional force" to the list?

@Kaumudi.H Now there's no net acceleration in vertical direction as well as horizontal direction therefore there must be some force which counteracts the force exerted by me on the block too, just as the normal force counteracts the gravitational force.

user228700

YES, exactly.

user228700

10:55 AM

Has your confusion cleared?

@Kaumudi.H what about Kinetic friction?

@Kaumudi.H yes

Should I delete my question on SE(which is discouraged because someone answered it :() or answer it myself(which is also discouraged)? @JohnRennie

@Abcd If the question isn't attracting downvotes I would leave it as it is.

user228700

@Abcd The static friction which can be exerted on an object has a maximum value. From the moment that a horizontal force starts to be applied, static friction comes into picture and counteracts this force. As you keep on increasing the magnitude of the force that you apply, the magnitude of static friction will also increase, to counteract but, as I said, it does have a limit.