The h Bar

Slereah

11:00

"The observation of a quantity $A$, with eigenfunction $\phi_i^{S_1}$, in a system $S_1$ by an observer $O$, transforms the total state according to $$\psi^{S_1}\psi^{S_2}...\psi^{S_N}\psi^{O} \to \sum_i a_i \phi_i^{S_1}\psi^{S_2}...\psi^{S_N} \psi^O_{[a_i]}$$ where $a_i = (\phi_i^{S_1}, \psi^{S_1})$"

Balarka Sen

such notation, much indices

Slereah

I have to say, though

Bold move on Everrett's part to propose a new QM interpretation as a thesis

ACuriousMind

This paper calls a special version of "orthogonal gluing" "perpendicular gluing". Are these not synonyms in English? What a terrible choice of nomenclature

paracetamol

Opens a Bio. Olympiad PDF

Thinks it'll be easy

Oh crap...

Gets stuck in question 3

Slereah

"what is a bunny"

Balarka Sen

11:05

@ACuriousMind Well orthogonal has a nice ring to it

Aryabhatta

Hello @ACuriousMind

Slereah

"how do you call a horse's hairdo"

answer : mane

paracetamol

._.

ACuriousMind

@Aryabhatta Hello

paracetamol

@Slereah I think I liked the potato joke better ;)

ACuriousMind

11:07

@BalarkaSen Sure, I'm not complaining about the name as such. I'm complaining that perpendicular and orthogonal mean the same thing to me, but orthogonal gluing does not mean the same as perpendicular gluing.

Aryabhatta

What is this chat room.for? @ACuriousMind

Slereah

We trade cake recipes

paracetamol

^ And healthy eating tips :)

ACuriousMind

@Aryabhatta It's for chatting. We don't have much of a topic restriction here, you might find people chatting about physics, math, food, computers, games, anything, really.

paracetamol

Apr 20 at 16:21, by Slereah

Well yes, you need 5 fruits per day

Balarka Sen

11:08

@ACuriousMind If it's what you said I agree it's terrible terminology. I was just joking. :)

Slereah

@ACuriousMind Although don't do nazi warcrime apology

Apparently it doesn't go over well

paracetamol

And the occasional conspiracy theory:

Apr 20 at 16:32, by Fawad

In schooled I learned "fruits are excreta of plants" so it's just plants poop :O

Balarka Sen

that's not conspiracy that's truth

Aryabhatta

So i want to know that has Newton's Law of Gravitation been proved wrong by Einstein? @ACuriousMind

Sir Cumference

Morning

paracetamol

11:09

Mornin' @Pies o/

(Afternoon here, though >_<)

Balarka Sen

newton got rekd by einstein

paracetamol

@BalarkaSen You're rather late to the party ;P

ACuriousMind

@Aryabhatta No, it has been proved wrong by the people who observed e.g. the precession of Mercury. Einstein just provided the theory that explains that deviation from Newton's theory

(I'm nitpicky about "proving" things about the real world as a theorist)

Aryabhatta

@ACuriousMind, is the newton's law of gravitation wrong?

Slereah

Well, the precession of mercury did not prove Newton wrong

paracetamol

11:13

^^ An approximation might be a good word ;)

Slereah

There were alternative explanations for it

They just didn't pan out

ACuriousMind

@Aryabhatta Strictly speaking, yes. However, that doesn't mean it's not useful as an approximation for many cases

Slereah

the common theory back then was that there was a hypothetical planet affecting Mercury's orbit

Called Vulcan

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Huh, TIL

Aryabhatta

@ACuriousMind, so who would win Newton vs Einstein?

ACuriousMind

11:14

I don't see why they would fight, or why their theories have something to do with their combat prowess.

Balarka Sen

in a hand to hand combat? einstein probably

2

Sir Cumference

Well Einstein is often credited with inventing calculus

paracetamol

^ O_o

Sir Cumference

Oh crap, I'm tired

*Newton

Balarka Sen

lol

ACuriousMind

11:15

@SirCumference Are you tired again? :P

Slereah

Einstein invented a fridge

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind Just woke up, oye

Slereah

Newton invented a cat door

I think we all know who wins

paracetamol

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Gottfried Wilhelm (von) Leibniz (/ˈlaɪbnɪts/; German: [ˈɡɔtfʁiːt ˈvɪlhɛlm fɔn ˈlaɪbnɪts] or [ˈlaɪpnɪts]; French: Godefroi Guillaume Leibnitz; 1 July 1646 [O.S. 21 June] – November 14, 1716) was a German polymath and philosopher who occupies a prominent place in the history of mathematics and the history of philosophy, having developed differential and integral calculus independently of Isaac Newton. Leibniz's notation has been widely used ever since it was published. It was only in the 20th century that his Law of Continuity and Transcendental Law of Homogeneity found mathematical implementation...

Sir Cumference

@Slereah He invented it with Szilard

He couldn't even do it alone

@Slereah What's a cat door

ACuriousMind

11:16

It's...a door. For a cat.

Slereah

It's a door that a cat can go through to enter the house

Too small for humans

But of ideal size for cats

paracetamol

@Slereah I thought the theory was "Invisible angels push planets around the sun*

Sir Cumference

Oh...I thought you misspelled "car door"

Balarka Sen

You really are tired

Sir Cumference

...anyway

ACuriousMind

11:17

@SirCumference How would Newton invent a car door???

2

paracetamol

^ Got lucky?

Slereah

maybe the car door was invented before the car

3

paracetamol

:D

Balarka Sen

that would be interesting

Sir Cumference

;-;

paracetamol

11:17

^ Ouch

Slereah

He invented the whole car except the engine

very frustrating

On the other hand

Balarka Sen

Leibniz would finish it before Newton, and Newton would attempt a suicide

Slereah

Einstein worked as a patent clerk

Newton worked as a DETECTIVE

He had to solve crimes for the royal mint

Balarka Sen

do you know that Sherlock Holmes' character was based on Isaac Newton?

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle took him as an inspiration

Slereah

Well Sherlock Holmes was mostly based on one of his professor of medicine

Who did Sherlocking with patients for fun

telling people their job by the state of their hands and such

paracetamol

11:20

^ 3:)

Aryabhatta

So, who do you all regard as the greatedt scientist that the world.has ever witnessed?

paracetamol

^ Specify field please ._.

Sir Cumference

@Aryabhatta Depends on what you consider the "most important" achievement

Balarka Sen

i vote for jesus christ

paracetamol

Planck!

@BalarkaSen ._.

Slereah

11:21

One of Newton's cases as the King's attorney was against William Chaloner.[18] Chaloner's schemes included setting up phony conspiracies of Catholics and then turning in the hapless conspirators whom he had entrapped. Chaloner made himself rich enough to posture as a gentleman. Petitioning Parliament, Chaloner accused the Mint of providing tools to counterfeiters (a charge also made by others).
He proposed that he be allowed to inspect the Mint's processes in order to improve them. He petitioned Parliament to adopt his plans for a coinage that could not be counterfeited, while at the same t…

Sir Cumference

Newton is credited with inventing calculus. That's a pretty big achievement

paracetamol

6 mins ago, by paracetamol

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Gottfried Wilhelm (von) Leibniz (/ˈlaɪbnɪts/; German: [ˈɡɔtfʁiːt ˈvɪlhɛlm fɔn ˈlaɪbnɪts] or [ˈlaɪpnɪts]; French: Godefroi Guillaume Leibnitz; 1 July 1646 [O.S. 21 June] – November 14, 1716) was a German polymath and philosopher who occupies a prominent place in the history of mathematics and the history of philosophy, having developed differential and integral calculus independently of Isaac Newton. Leibniz's notation has been widely used ever since it was published. It was only in the 20th century that his Law of Continuity and Transcendental Law of Homogeneity found mathematical implementation...

Sir Cumference

@paracetamol I know, I know

paracetamol

:3

Sir Cumference

And Aristotle had a part in it too

paracetamol

11:22

o_o

Aryabhatta

@SirCumference, Physis

*c

Balarka Sen

2

Sir Cumference

And even people before that. Hell, the Babylonians used a prototype of calc to track Jupiter

Slereah

Calculus did exist in some form before Newton and Leibniz

It was called

The method of exhaustion

paracetamol

@SirCumference Gib mir ein Kind, bis es sieben ist und ich gebe dir einen Mann zurueck :3

Sir Cumference

11:23

The common claim is that Newton invented it, so I'll just say he made a major contribution to mathematics

paracetamol

@BalarkaSen :D

Balarka Sen

@Slereah calculi is exhausting, yes

it hurts

Sir Cumference

Side note: Leibniz invented calc independently. Both accused each other of plagiarism, and Leibniz made the mistake of asking the government to do an inspection. Newton worked for the government, so he sent his own team to "investigate", and ruined Leibniz's life.

Newton was not a pleasant man

paracetamol

^ That happened?

:O

Sir Cumference

While working for the government, he killed plenty of people for not doing their taxes.

Slereah

11:25

They weren't even in the same country

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Wait what

Slereah

How is he gonna send his government thugs

Sir Cumference

I'm 90% certain that happened

Slereah

Maybe!

Who knows

Aryabhatta

So.if we talk about physics many regard einste

paracetamol

11:25

Quick everyone! #Leibniz_calculus_matters

Slereah

Who is Einste

Sir Cumference

He said he took great joy in knowing that Leibniz's life was over

Slereah

Revenge is a dish best served cold

paracetamol

@Slereah I like mine piping hot though ;)

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference Where on earth did you get that from? Leibniz was German, Newton was English, how would "the government" investigate that?

Sir Cumference

11:27

@ACuriousMind Might've been someone else, not Leibniz

Balarka Sen

Maybe he's time travelling from an alternate history

ACuriousMind

That...explains a lot.

Balarka Sen

a resultant of being tired beyond comprehension, of course

Sir Cumference

Also, I heard that his saying "If I have seen things, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants" was a diss to one of his rivals, who was quite short

That's at least what my physics prof told me

Slereah

That was Hooke

Not Leibniz

Sir Cumference

11:28

@Slereah Ah, thanks

paracetamol

@ACurious I've noticed...you use... a lot of ellipses...

Slereah

Hooke probably came up with the central force idea for gravity IIRC

@paracetamol That's what people call a dramatic...

... pause

Sir Cumference

Well, Newton was quite cruel in that regard. But you don't need morals to be smart.

ACuriousMind

@paracetamol I use them where I would normally hesitate in verbal speech for dramatic effect.

paracetamol

29 secs ago, by Slereah

@paracetamol That's what people call a dramatic...

I... noticed ;)

Sir Cumference

11:29

@Aryabhatta Anyway, Einstein and others at the time made major contributions to physics, based on the calculus that Newton "invented"

I don't know how you can measure one's contributions or achievements

Slereah

Einstein won a Nobel prize

Newton didn't

paracetamol

@SirCumference Measure the weight of the books they wrote?

Slereah

Says it all doesn't it

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Not even for relativity

That's kind of disappointing

paracetamol

@Slereah :D

Sir Cumference

11:31

No one believed him, I heard

paracetamol

@SirCumference The Swedes are idiots...apparently ;P

Slereah

Relativity was mostly well accepted by the time he got a Nobel prize

I mean, not by everyone

The nazis were not fond of Einstein's jewish physics

Balarka Sen

"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Isaac Newton
"In the sciences, we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side with the giants on whose shoulders we stand." -- Gerald Holton
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." -- Hal Abelson
"Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders." -- Gauss
"Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders while computer scientists stand on each other's toes." -- Richard Hamming

Sir Cumference

brb

Balarka Sen

That's a series of quotes I like.

paracetamol

11:32

@Slereah :3

Heh

Judenphysik

...or something like that ._.

Slereah

@BalarkaSen Is that some kind of human pyramid

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference Considering how controversial the exact contributions to relativity by the people who worked on it were, I think it's kinda good that he got it for something where there's much less debate about who was first or who did what.

paracetamol

@Slereah You might find this interesting:

Johannes Stark

Johannes Stark (German pronunciation: [joˈhanəs ʃtaʁk], 15 April 1874 – 21 June 1957) was a German physicist and Physics Nobel Prize laureate, who was closely involved with the Deutsche Physik movement under the Nazi regime. == Biography == === Early years === Born in Schickenhof, Kingdom of Bavaria (now Freihung), Stark was educated at the Bayreuth Gymnasium (secondary school) and later in Regensburg. His collegiate education began at the University of Munich, where he studied physics, mathematics, chemistry, and crystallography. His tenure at that college began in 1894; he graduated in 1897,...

Slereah

I am aware of Stark, yes

paracetamol

:D

> who was closely involved with the Deutsche Physik movement

Slereah

11:35

a lot of dictatorships have really weird attitudes towards sciences

they tend to have strong opinions

the Soviet Union, especially

paracetamol

^ I thought the Nazis were Sci-friendly?

Sir Cumference

back

Slereah

They had opinions about what sciences were correct or not

Sir Cumference

@paracetamol The Nazis actually believed the Earth was a sphere, and they were on the inside of it

Balarka Sen

Soviet Union wanted science to make bombs

paracetamol

11:36

@Slereah True that...

Balarka Sen

and explode it into outer spce

Sir Cumference

While the galaxies were in the center

I'm not making that up

Slereah

Although their attitude towards quantum mechanics and relativity softened when they had to work on their nuclear program

ACuriousMind

@paracetamol Considering the large number of scientists that fled Germany during that time, that's an obvious mischaracterization.

paracetamol

@SirCumference No, no they didn't...those were the Americans XD

Slereah

11:37

@ACuriousMind Lots of jews

paracetamol

@ACuriousMind :(

Sir Cumference

@paracetamol What

Balarka Sen

On the other hand, here is an interesting Soviet ""scientist"": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

Slereah

Lysenko wasn't that bad a scientist

It's just that he had way too much sway

paracetamol

Speaking of Soviet "Science"...I need to dig something up..

Slereah

11:38

So his pet theory became the mandatory theory

His original work on grain germination was probably fine

and that's what earned him his position

Sir Cumference

Oh, other fun story: apparently Archimedes came up with integration and wrote his findings in a book. After his death, a bunch of monks found his books and used them for writing prayers

They passed down these books until, thousands of years later, an archeologist picked them up and figured out exactly what they were

Slereah

I think you mean archimedes

Balarka Sen

He just had some heuristic ideas based on experimentation (he was into practical agriculture) but it all contradicted contemporary ideas about Mendelian genetics

Sir Cumference

So we could've had integration back thousands of years ago

Slereah

The famous archimedes Palimpsest

Sir Cumference

11:40

@Slereah Sigh, thank you

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference What does "Aristotle came up with integration" mean? The Greek concepts of functions and similar things were so different from the modern axiomatization that I don't know what that is supposed to say.

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind Ok nvm

Slereah

The method of exhaustion, @ACuriousMind

Approximation of surfaces by series of polygons

It was commonly used in ancient math to calculate surfaces and volumes

ACuriousMind

@Slereah Ah, okay. Not sure I'd call that "coming up with integration", but okay.

Slereah

Well it's basically a fancy version of the Riemann sum

Balarka Sen

11:41

There's an article of Ronald Fisher which brutally bashed Lysenko but I can't find it anymore

Slereah

there's a lot of weird stuff like that in the soviet union

Balarka Sen

ah there it is

digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/15140/1/…

Slereah

They had a lot of party lines for biology, sociology, economics, linguistics, history, quantum mechanics, cosmology, etc

Aryabhatta

What was the conflict between Newton and Einstein? what they division Classical and Modern Physics after after theory of relativity?

Slereah

Everything had to be analyzed under the scope of Marxism Leninism material dialectic

Balarka Sen

11:43

@Slereah and under the collective dictatorship of the proletariat, of course

paracetamol

Aha!

Lysenkoism

Lysenkoism (Russian: Лысе́нковщина, lysenkovshchina) was a political campaign against genetics and science-based agriculture conducted by Trofim Lysenko, his followers and Soviet authorities. Lysenko served as the director of the Soviet Union's Lenin All-Union Academy of Agricultural Sciences. Lysenkoism began in the late 1920s and formally ended in 1964. The term Lysenkoism can also be used metaphorically to describe the manipulation or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias, often related to social or political objectives...

Oh wait...you guys were already talking about it...

Balarka Sen

Comrade Stalin is peering out from the corner of the picture. He seems interested.

paracetamol

^ Maybe it's a stiff neck?

^ Or maybe Lysenko's got a nice arse?

Balarka Sen

rofl

Slereah

by the way

The Soviet Union had a science gulag

Sharashka

The Experimental Design Bureau (Russian: Опытное конструкторское бюро, Opytnoe konstruktorskoe bûro; ОКБ), commonly known as sharashka (Russian: шара́жка, [ʂɐˈraʂkə]; sometimes sharaga, sharazhka) was an informal name for secret research and development laboratories in the Soviet Gulag labor camp system. Etymologically, the word sharashka is derived from a Russian slang expression sharashkina kontora ("Sharashka's office", which in its turn comes from the criminal argot term sharaga (шарага) for a band of thieves, hoodlums, etc.), an ironic, derogatory term to denote a poorly organized, impromptu...

Balarka Sen

11:46

le gulag, the real deal. what about it?

Slereah

that's where you send the bad scientists

Balarka Sen

ah yeah I know about sharashka

Slereah

Poor living conditions, and worst of all, you didn't get your name on the papers you created

Sir Cumference

@Aryabhatta "what they division Classical and Modern Physics after after theory of relativity?" ???

Balarka Sen

you sicko

paracetamol

11:47

._.

Aryabhatta

@SirCumference, why was there division of classical and modern physics

ACuriousMind

@paracetamol Please don't start that again.

paracetamol

Backs off

Sir Cumference

@Aryabhatta With regards to what? GR? QM?

Aryabhatta

GR

ACuriousMind

11:49

Because GR and classical physics are different? I'm not sure I understand the question.

paracetamol

^ I'm not sure I want to understand that question :P

Sir Cumference

GR and classical physics don't remotely rely on the same mathematics

paracetamol

@ACuriousMind Was it... that bad? :(

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference You haven't seen how technical and geometrical one can make classical mechanics :P

Aryabhatta

@ACuriousMind, I mean why was there the division of physics as Classical physics and Modern Physics? And all the Newton's work was under CP and those of Einstein under MP?

Sir Cumference

11:51

@ACuriousMind I'm talking about with regards to gravity. I might be wrong tho

Slereah

Classical mechanics rely on an absolute space and time

With rigid structure

While GR does not

ACuriousMind

@Aryabhatta I'm...not sure what you mean by "division" - the "division" between classical physics and GR is of the same nature as that between thermodynamics and electromagnetism, they simply talk about different things.

Sir Cumference

@Aryabhatta Einstein's work was one of the theories that transformed classical physics into the more advanced modern physics

Aryabhatta

What contents are to be studied under Classical physis? And what under Modern Physis?

Sir Cumference

QM, QFT, etc. had roles in that too

paracetamol

11:53

Waves curry-wurst under Slereah's nose :3

ACuriousMind

@paracetamol No, but there was little reason to post it if not for the squick factor. If you want to discuss that further I'd prefer we switch to meta chat, but I'm kinda busy currently.

paracetamol

@Aryabhatta Long story short: Classical physics was an approximation, and Modern Physics is...an even better approximation B-)

Sir Cumference

@Aryabhatta Please write "physics" correctly

paracetamol

@ACuriousMind Nah, I'm good... Kamerad ;)

Sir Cumference

Modern physics comprises GR, QM, QFT, and other areas still studied today

Classical physics is a few-hundred-year-old approximation for what we have today

paracetamol

11:58

Or should I say: Kamerade? 3:)

Apr 19 at 14:32, by 0celouvsky

ACM is a sexy black lady, I don't know why he tries to deny it

ACuriousMind

@paracetamol I would appreciate it if you stopped using German words and phrases that are negatively connotated with the time of national socialism.

paracetamol

...

Sir Cumference

...well then

paracetamol

@ACuriousMind Um...another word for "friend", then?

[Disclaimer: I don't trust Google Translate]

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