The h Bar - 2017-04-26 (page 2 of 7)

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11:00 AM

"The observation of a quantity $A$, with eigenfunction $\phi_i^{S_1}$, in a system $S_1$ by an observer $O$, transforms the total state according to $$\psi^{S_1}\psi^{S_2}...\psi^{S_N}\psi^{O} \to \sum_i a_i \phi_i^{S_1}\psi^{S_2}...\psi^{S_N} \psi^O_{[a_i]}$$ where $a_i = (\phi_i^{S_1}, \psi^{S_1})$"

such notation, much indices

I have to say, though

Bold move on Everrett's part to propose a new QM interpretation as a thesis

This paper calls a special version of "orthogonal gluing" "perpendicular gluing". Are these not synonyms in English? What a terrible choice of nomenclature

Opens a Bio. Olympiad PDF

Thinks it'll be easy

Oh crap...

Gets stuck in question 3

"what is a bunny"

11:05 AM

@ACuriousMind Well orthogonal has a nice ring to it

Hello @ACuriousMind

"how do you call a horse's hairdo"

answer : mane

._.

@Aryabhatta Hello

@Slereah I think I liked the potato joke better ;)

11:07 AM

@BalarkaSen Sure, I'm not complaining about the name as such. I'm complaining that perpendicular and orthogonal mean the same thing to me, but orthogonal gluing does not mean the same as perpendicular gluing.

What is this chat room.for? @ACuriousMind

We trade cake recipes

^ And healthy eating tips :)

@Aryabhatta It's for chatting. We don't have much of a topic restriction here, you might find people chatting about physics, math, food, computers, games, anything, really.

Apr 20 at 16:21, by Slereah

Well yes, you need 5 fruits per day

11:08 AM

@ACuriousMind If it's what you said I agree it's terrible terminology. I was just joking. :)

@ACuriousMind Although don't do nazi warcrime apology

Apparently it doesn't go over well

And the occasional conspiracy theory:

Apr 20 at 16:32, by Fawad

In schooled I learned "fruits are excreta of plants" so it's just plants poop :O

that's not conspiracy that's truth

So i want to know that has Newton's Law of Gravitation been proved wrong by Einstein? @ACuriousMind

Morning

11:09 AM

Mornin' @Pies o/

(Afternoon here, though >_<)

newton got rekd by einstein

@BalarkaSen You're rather late to the party ;P

@Aryabhatta No, it has been proved wrong by the people who observed e.g. the precession of Mercury. Einstein just provided the theory that explains that deviation from Newton's theory

(I'm nitpicky about "proving" things about the real world as a theorist)

@ACuriousMind, is the newton's law of gravitation wrong?

Well, the precession of mercury did not prove Newton wrong

11:13 AM

^^ An approximation might be a good word ;)

There were alternative explanations for it

They just didn't pan out

@Aryabhatta Strictly speaking, yes. However, that doesn't mean it's not useful as an approximation for many cases

the common theory back then was that there was a hypothetical planet affecting Mercury's orbit

Called Vulcan

@Slereah Huh, TIL

@ACuriousMind, so who would win Newton vs Einstein?

11:14 AM

I don't see why they would fight, or why their theories have something to do with their combat prowess.

in a hand to hand combat? einstein probably

2

Well Einstein is often credited with inventing calculus

^ O_o

Oh crap, I'm tired

*Newton

lol

11:15 AM

@SirCumference Are you tired again? :P

Einstein invented a fridge

@ACuriousMind Just woke up, oye

Newton invented a cat door

I think we all know who wins

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Gottfried Wilhelm (von) Leibniz (/ˈlaɪbnɪts/; German: [ˈɡɔtfʁiːt ˈvɪlhɛlm fɔn ˈlaɪbnɪts] or [ˈlaɪpnɪts]; French: Godefroi Guillaume Leibnitz; 1 July 1646 [O.S. 21 June] – November 14, 1716) was a German polymath and philosopher who occupies a prominent place in the history of mathematics and the history of philosophy, having developed differential and integral calculus independently of Isaac Newton. Leibniz's notation has been widely used ever since it was published. It was only in the 20th century that his Law of Continuity and Transcendental Law of Homogeneity found mathematical implementation...

@Slereah He invented it with Szilard

He couldn't even do it alone

@Slereah What's a cat door

11:16 AM

It's...a door. For a cat.

It's a door that a cat can go through to enter the house

Too small for humans

But of ideal size for cats

@Slereah I thought the theory was "Invisible angels push planets around the sun*

Oh...I thought you misspelled "car door"

You really are tired

...anyway

11:17 AM

@SirCumference How would Newton invent a car door???

2

^ Got lucky?

maybe the car door was invented before the car

3

:D

that would be interesting

;-;

11:17 AM

^ Ouch

He invented the whole car except the engine

very frustrating

On the other hand

Leibniz would finish it before Newton, and Newton would attempt a suicide

Einstein worked as a patent clerk

Newton worked as a DETECTIVE

He had to solve crimes for the royal mint

do you know that Sherlock Holmes' character was based on Isaac Newton?

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle took him as an inspiration

Well Sherlock Holmes was mostly based on one of his professor of medicine

Who did Sherlocking with patients for fun

telling people their job by the state of their hands and such

11:20 AM

^ 3:)

So, who do you all regard as the greatedt scientist that the world.has ever witnessed?

^ Specify field please ._.

@Aryabhatta Depends on what you consider the "most important" achievement

i vote for jesus christ

Planck!

@BalarkaSen ._.

11:21 AM

One of Newton's cases as the King's attorney was against William Chaloner.[18] Chaloner's schemes included setting up phony conspiracies of Catholics and then turning in the hapless conspirators whom he had entrapped. Chaloner made himself rich enough to posture as a gentleman. Petitioning Parliament, Chaloner accused the Mint of providing tools to counterfeiters (a charge also made by others).
He proposed that he be allowed to inspect the Mint's processes in order to improve them. He petitioned Parliament to adopt his plans for a coinage that could not be counterfeited, while at the same t…

Newton is credited with inventing calculus. That's a pretty big achievement

6 mins ago, by paracetamol

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Gottfried Wilhelm (von) Leibniz (/ˈlaɪbnɪts/; German: [ˈɡɔtfʁiːt ˈvɪlhɛlm fɔn ˈlaɪbnɪts] or [ˈlaɪpnɪts]; French: Godefroi Guillaume Leibnitz; 1 July 1646 [O.S. 21 June] – November 14, 1716) was a German polymath and philosopher who occupies a prominent place in the history of mathematics and the history of philosophy, having developed differential and integral calculus independently of Isaac Newton. Leibniz's notation has been widely used ever since it was published. It was only in the 20th century that his Law of Continuity and Transcendental Law of Homogeneity found mathematical implementation...

@paracetamol I know, I know

:3

And Aristotle had a part in it too

11:22 AM

o_o

@SirCumference, Physis

*c

YEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!

2

And even people before that. Hell, the Babylonians used a prototype of calc to track Jupiter

Calculus did exist in some form before Newton and Leibniz

It was called

The method of exhaustion

@SirCumference Gib mir ein Kind, bis es sieben ist und ich gebe dir einen Mann zurueck :3

11:23 AM

The common claim is that Newton invented it, so I'll just say he made a major contribution to mathematics

@BalarkaSen :D

@Slereah calculi is exhausting, yes

it hurts

Side note: Leibniz invented calc independently. Both accused each other of plagiarism, and Leibniz made the mistake of asking the government to do an inspection. Newton worked for the government, so he sent his own team to "investigate", and ruined Leibniz's life.

Newton was not a pleasant man

^ That happened?

:O

While working for the government, he killed plenty of people for not doing their taxes.

11:25 AM

They weren't even in the same country

@Slereah Wait what

How is he gonna send his government thugs

I'm 90% certain that happened

Maybe!

Who knows

So.if we talk about physics many regard einste

11:25 AM

Quick everyone! #Leibniz_calculus_matters

Who is Einste

He said he took great joy in knowing that Leibniz's life was over

Revenge is a dish best served cold

@Slereah I like mine piping hot though ;)

@SirCumference Where on earth did you get that from? Leibniz was German, Newton was English, how would "the government" investigate that?

11:27 AM

@ACuriousMind Might've been someone else, not Leibniz

Maybe he's time travelling from an alternate history

That...explains a lot.

a resultant of being tired beyond comprehension, of course

Also, I heard that his saying "If I have seen things, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants" was a diss to one of his rivals, who was quite short

That's at least what my physics prof told me

That was Hooke

Not Leibniz

11:28 AM

@Slereah Ah, thanks

@ACurious I've noticed...you use... a lot of ellipses...

Hooke probably came up with the central force idea for gravity IIRC

@paracetamol That's what people call a dramatic...

... pause

Well, Newton was quite cruel in that regard. But you don't need morals to be smart.

@paracetamol I use them where I would normally hesitate in verbal speech for dramatic effect.

29 secs ago, by Slereah

@paracetamol That's what people call a dramatic...

I... noticed ;)

11:29 AM

@Aryabhatta Anyway, Einstein and others at the time made major contributions to physics, based on the calculus that Newton "invented"

I don't know how you can measure one's contributions or achievements

Einstein won a Nobel prize

Newton didn't

@SirCumference Measure the weight of the books they wrote?

Says it all doesn't it

@Slereah Not even for relativity

That's kind of disappointing

@Slereah :D

11:31 AM

No one believed him, I heard

@SirCumference The Swedes are idiots...apparently ;P

Relativity was mostly well accepted by the time he got a Nobel prize

I mean, not by everyone

The nazis were not fond of Einstein's jewish physics

"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants." -- Isaac Newton
"In the sciences, we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side with the giants on whose shoulders we stand." -- Gerald Holton
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders." -- Hal Abelson
"Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders." -- Gauss
"Mathematicians stand on each other's shoulders while computer scientists stand on each other's toes." -- Richard Hamming

brb

That's a series of quotes I like.

11:32 AM

@Slereah :3

Heh

Judenphysik

...or something like that ._.

@BalarkaSen Is that some kind of human pyramid

@SirCumference Considering how controversial the exact contributions to relativity by the people who worked on it were, I think it's kinda good that he got it for something where there's much less debate about who was first or who did what.

@Slereah You might find this interesting:

Johannes Stark (German pronunciation: [joˈhanəs ʃtaʁk], 15 April 1874 – 21 June 1957) was a German physicist and Physics Nobel Prize laureate, who was closely involved with the Deutsche Physik movement under the Nazi regime. == Biography == === Early years === Born in Schickenhof, Kingdom of Bavaria (now Freihung), Stark was educated at the Bayreuth Gymnasium (secondary school) and later in Regensburg. His collegiate education began at the University of Munich, where he studied physics, mathematics, chemistry, and crystallography. His tenure at that college began in 1894; he graduated in 1897,...

I am aware of Stark, yes

:D

> who was closely involved with the Deutsche Physik movement

11:35 AM

a lot of dictatorships have really weird attitudes towards sciences

they tend to have strong opinions

the Soviet Union, especially

^ I thought the Nazis were Sci-friendly?

back

They had opinions about what sciences were correct or not

@paracetamol The Nazis actually believed the Earth was a sphere, and they were on the inside of it

Soviet Union wanted science to make bombs

11:36 AM

@Slereah True that...

and explode it into outer spce

While the galaxies were in the center

I'm not making that up

Although their attitude towards quantum mechanics and relativity softened when they had to work on their nuclear program

@paracetamol Considering the large number of scientists that fled Germany during that time, that's an obvious mischaracterization.

@SirCumference No, no they didn't...those were the Americans XD

11:37 AM

@ACuriousMind Lots of jews

@ACuriousMind :(

@paracetamol What

On the other hand, here is an interesting Soviet ""scientist"": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

Lysenko wasn't that bad a scientist

It's just that he had way too much sway

Speaking of Soviet "Science"...I need to dig something up..

11:38 AM

So his pet theory became the mandatory theory

His original work on grain germination was probably fine

and that's what earned him his position

Oh, other fun story: apparently Archimedes came up with integration and wrote his findings in a book. After his death, a bunch of monks found his books and used them for writing prayers

They passed down these books until, thousands of years later, an archeologist picked them up and figured out exactly what they were

I think you mean archimedes

He just had some heuristic ideas based on experimentation (he was into practical agriculture) but it all contradicted contemporary ideas about Mendelian genetics

So we could've had integration back thousands of years ago

The famous archimedes Palimpsest

11:40 AM

@Slereah Sigh, thank you

@SirCumference What does "Aristotle came up with integration" mean? The Greek concepts of functions and similar things were so different from the modern axiomatization that I don't know what that is supposed to say.

@ACuriousMind Ok nvm

The method of exhaustion, @ACuriousMind

Approximation of surfaces by series of polygons

It was commonly used in ancient math to calculate surfaces and volumes

@Slereah Ah, okay. Not sure I'd call that "coming up with integration", but okay.

Well it's basically a fancy version of the Riemann sum

11:41 AM

There's an article of Ronald Fisher which brutally bashed Lysenko but I can't find it anymore

there's a lot of weird stuff like that in the soviet union

ah there it is

digital.library.adelaide.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/2440/15140/1/…

They had a lot of party lines for biology, sociology, economics, linguistics, history, quantum mechanics, cosmology, etc

What was the conflict between Newton and Einstein? what they division Classical and Modern Physics after after theory of relativity?

Everything had to be analyzed under the scope of Marxism Leninism material dialectic

11:43 AM

@Slereah and under the collective dictatorship of the proletariat, of course

Aha!

Lysenkoism (Russian: Лысе́нковщина, lysenkovshchina) was a political campaign against genetics and science-based agriculture conducted by Trofim Lysenko, his followers and Soviet authorities. Lysenko served as the director of the Soviet Union's Lenin All-Union Academy of Agricultural Sciences. Lysenkoism began in the late 1920s and formally ended in 1964. The term Lysenkoism can also be used metaphorically to describe the manipulation or distortion of the scientific process as a way to reach a predetermined conclusion as dictated by an ideological bias, often related to social or political objectives...

Oh wait...you guys were already talking about it...

Comrade Stalin is peering out from the corner of the picture. He seems interested.

^ Maybe it's a stiff neck?

^ Or maybe Lysenko's got a nice arse?

rofl

by the way

The Soviet Union had a science gulag

The Experimental Design Bureau (Russian: Опытное конструкторское бюро, Opytnoe konstruktorskoe bûro; ОКБ), commonly known as sharashka (Russian: шара́жка, [ʂɐˈraʂkə]; sometimes sharaga, sharazhka) was an informal name for secret research and development laboratories in the Soviet Gulag labor camp system. Etymologically, the word sharashka is derived from a Russian slang expression sharashkina kontora ("Sharashka's office", which in its turn comes from the criminal argot term sharaga (шарага) for a band of thieves, hoodlums, etc.), an ironic, derogatory term to denote a poorly organized, impromptu...

11:46 AM

le gulag, the real deal. what about it?

that's where you send the bad scientists

ah yeah I know about sharashka

Poor living conditions, and worst of all, you didn't get your name on the papers you created

@Aryabhatta "what they division Classical and Modern Physics after after theory of relativity?" ???

you sicko

11:47 AM

._.

@SirCumference, why was there division of classical and modern physics

@paracetamol Please don't start that again.

Backs off

@Aryabhatta With regards to what? GR? QM?

GR

11:49 AM

Because GR and classical physics are different? I'm not sure I understand the question.

^ I'm not sure I want to understand that question :P

GR and classical physics don't remotely rely on the same mathematics

@ACuriousMind Was it... that bad? :(

@SirCumference You haven't seen how technical and geometrical one can make classical mechanics :P

@ACuriousMind, I mean why was there the division of physics as Classical physics and Modern Physics? And all the Newton's work was under CP and those of Einstein under MP?

11:51 AM

@ACuriousMind I'm talking about with regards to gravity. I might be wrong tho

Classical mechanics rely on an absolute space and time

With rigid structure

While GR does not

@Aryabhatta I'm...not sure what you mean by "division" - the "division" between classical physics and GR is of the same nature as that between thermodynamics and electromagnetism, they simply talk about different things.

@Aryabhatta Einstein's work was one of the theories that transformed classical physics into the more advanced modern physics

What contents are to be studied under Classical physis? And what under Modern Physis?

QM, QFT, etc. had roles in that too

11:53 AM

Waves curry-wurst under Slereah's nose :3

@paracetamol No, but there was little reason to post it if not for the squick factor. If you want to discuss that further I'd prefer we switch to meta chat, but I'm kinda busy currently.

@Aryabhatta Long story short: Classical physics was an approximation, and Modern Physics is...an even better approximation B-)

@Aryabhatta Please write "physics" correctly

@ACuriousMind Nah, I'm good... Kamerad ;)

Modern physics comprises GR, QM, QFT, and other areas still studied today

Classical physics is a few-hundred-year-old approximation for what we have today

11:58 AM

Or should I say: Kamerade? 3:)

Apr 19 at 14:32, by 0celouvsky

ACM is a sexy black lady, I don't know why he tries to deny it

@paracetamol I would appreciate it if you stopped using German words and phrases that are negatively connotated with the time of national socialism.

...

...well then

@ACuriousMind Um...another word for "friend", then?

[Disclaimer: I don't trust Google Translate]

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