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2:01 AM
My "chosen" map is also not exactly what you want because it need a restriction $\alpha \leq 2\pi$, i.e. you're not allowed to plug equivalent descriptions of the same rotation into it, you need a particular one
 
@ACuriousMind Hmm?
 
@0celo7 you would usually have that $\alpha = 0$ and $\alpha = 2\pi$ give the same result, but $\alpha = 2\pi$ gives -1.
That's what physicists stupidly describe as "a full rotation turns the electron around/you need two full rotations to return a spinor to its original state"
 
I...think this is what your post is saying?
Here $Q$ is the quotient homo $U\to PU$
 
Yes. My post is mostly concerned with the issue that the unitary representation $\Sigma$ is not unique.
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer the aaronson work is great but dont understand any assertion that it is evidence for/ against ZFC consistency. its just a reformulation of ZFC consistency into TM halting problem. it is cool that people are seemingly taking this more seriously these days, however its a concept that has been discussed for awhile in CS/ math circles. re connection between TM halting problem & thm proving see esp [d10][d11] here vzn1.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/…
 
2:05 AM
@ACuriousMind In the finite-dim case, apparently it can be chosen to be unique!
 
@0celo7 No, the theorem doesn't say that
 
@vzn From what I understand his recent work has very little to do with the halting problem. It's more on the lines of the previously done work on testing Goldbach conjecture by building a TM with minimal states and attempting to find the BB of the number of states to see if the Goldbach verifier halts
 
@ACuriousMind "It it possible to choose $\Sigma$ so..."
I guess that's not the same as your $\Sigma$
yours is a rep of the group, not the cover
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer lol its essentially the applied halting problem and it shows that very deep problems can be reduced to "fairly small" TMs in terms of the state table size. all this has been known "in theory" but CS theorists have been evasive in actually constructing the TMs so far, thinking it a not-worthwhile exercise. Calude has a great paper on this as cited.
 
@0celo7 Ah, yes, true.
 
2:10 AM
@vzn This is making me sad. I should have gone for CS and not CEng
Engineering is a meme
 
Right, the crucial condition is not finite-dimensionality but matrix Lie group, though
 
@ACuriousMind Huh, really?
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer just just stick around will teach you the rest of (T)CS in the chat room :P seriously you can take plenty of CS classes while youre in school, never too late, and CS is one of the best subjs around to learn independently. =D what do you mean "engineering is a meme"?
 
Where does that come in? I don't remember him saying that expressly in the proofs...
 
The correspondence to reps of the universal cover holds when $H^2$ vanishes
 
2:11 AM
@vzn My curriculum is not flexible :(
 
@ACuriousMind what is H^2 really
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer really? even 3rd/4th yrs?
 
it seems like a convoluted definition
 
I DON'T EVEN SEE THE DEFINITION OF A TM IN THIS GODDAMN COURSE
 
And by Whitehead's second lemma, it vanishes for semisimple/reductive Lie groups
 
2:12 AM
EDUCATION IS A TRAP
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer LIFE IS A TRAP
 
And I'm almost sure that being a matrix Lie group implies being reductive
 
@vzn It get's more flexible on years 4 and 5 (i.e. during my MS) but still not good
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer a few classes per semester can make a big difference. agreed 1st/2nd years feel really rigid/ "locked in". ofc taking highschool college courses certainly helps a lot... :)
 
@ACuriousMind what?
@ACuriousMind what?
 
2:13 AM
I'm in an angry moment with life
 
@0celo7 It's the second group cohomology. My definition seems convoluted because I constructed it "by hand", it's the equivalent to Cech cohomology, you wouldn't think that's a natural object to consider for topological spaces, either
 
I thought I wan an engineer since ever
and now I'm in school for engineering
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer it is quite easy. its not much different than a typewriter :) look up "lego TMs" on youtube :P
 
and I'm beginning to hate engineering
 
@ACuriousMind I think Cech is just fine, I think
@BernardoMeurer technical machine
 
2:14 AM
@vzn I already know how they work, my point is it's a ridiculous thing for my course not to cover
 
you use it to teach a pokemon a move
2
 
@0celo7 lol
 
used to be single-use, now it's forever
 
Engineering is a meme
 
2:15 AM
you learn to do everything ok, but you're not good at anything
 
@ACuriousMind ok I asked what group cohomology was earlier, and I didn't get a result
 
it's for people who want to work in an office
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer what book are you using? its probably in the materials somewhere
 
@BernardoMeurer where else would you want to work?
 
@vzn For what exactly?
@0celo7 In a lab
 
2:17 AM
@0celo7 I think the "true" definition is what's shown here: It is the object that classifies central extensions
 
@ACuriousMind Sorry, Cech cohomology of what? Group cohomology is the same as singular cohomology of the classifying space
 
wtf is a classifying space
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer hey chin up man, engineers built the world dude...
 
@BalarkaSen No, I meant that my definition of group cohomology there is as unenlightening as if you would define usual cohomology by Cech without any further motivation
 
@BernardoMeurer tons of engineers work in labs
I consider that an office
 
2:18 AM
@0celo7 As plebs
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer lots of intro CS books talk about a TM... & theres a lot of (good) free online CS books
 
@BernardoMeurer Hmm?
 
@0celo7 It's kinda complicated. If $G$ is a group it's classifying space $BG$ is defined to be base of a principal $G$-bundle with contractible total space I believe
 
You might want to go to Oak Ridge
lots of nuclear engineers doing cool stuff
not plebs
 
@0celo7 The true-but-not-really-enlightening answer is that it's the object that classifies $G$-principal bundles.
 
2:18 AM
@vzn Dude, the problem has nothing to do with turing machines, I know how they work, I learned it off of a free Cornell thing. That was just to illustrate a point.
 
@BalarkaSen wat
 
@0celo7 Plebs
 
does $G$ have a topology, for starters?
 
Engineering is a meme
 
@0celo7 ...It's a Lie group.
 
2:19 AM
suree
 
vzn
went into software engr because decided in HS CS college syllabus/ curriculum was not challenging enough
 
@ACuriousMind well that would be helpful to know!
@ACuriousMind Are we talking about principal bundles over $G$? What's going on here
 
principal bundles with structure group G
 
for general manifolds?
 
@0celo7 ...the story of classifying spaces is long and not really related to this.
 
2:20 AM
Any CW complex
 
jesus, that seems like a large space
 
But basically bundles over any $M$ are classified by homotopy classes of maps $M\to BG$.
 
it is!
for G = Z/2 it's RP^infty
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer yeah you youngsters are sometimes fixated on the idea that schools/ teachers/ classrooms/ textbooks are the way learning happens... even in 21st century cyberspace era... :P
 
so that's just for discrete groups
 
2:21 AM
@0celo7 It is, it's $\mathbb{C}P^\infty$ for $\mathrm{U}(1)$, iirc
 
Right
 
@vzn Dude what are you talking about with "you youngsters"? I learned everything I know about CS/CEng without a single class until 4 months ago
Don't go bundling people together like that, it's not nice
look at heather if you want an example
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer so why stop now? there is an old expr in english told to me by HS teacher etc, dont let school get in the way of your education :P
 
And the weird infinite Graßmannians you get for the orthogonal groups are not much nicer, either
 
my god
 
2:23 AM
Grassmannians are life
 
@ACuriousMind Ok this was nice while it lasted, but now we're getting too algebraic for me
 
It's one of these gadgets which you mostly just want to know of that it exists, you hope you never have to deal with it in person ;)
 
@0celo7 Given the difficulty of my calc course, and assuming it holds for all the other courses I take, how much time do you think I have left for studying other subjects? (@vzn Watch his answer)
 
@ACuriousMind have you had to compute these things?
 
@0celo7 not thus far
 
2:24 AM
@BernardoMeurer depends on if 5 hours of sleep is enough
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer what course is that anyway? just think of it like your chemistry class that introduces QM integrals without calculus background :P
 
@vzn by course I meant major I guess
 
It's quite easy to justify that k-vector bundles over X are classified by maps X --> Grass(k, infty) tho
 
@0celo7 Assume I sleep 7 hours
 
@BernardoMeurer that's a Lie
I don't believe you slept that much
 
2:25 AM
@0celo7 I don't, assume I sleep 5
That's more true
 
then no time
 
lol, if I slept more I'd have negative time ffs
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer dont skip on sleep guys havent you seen that conversation in here? it literally degrades your brain/ interferes with learning etc
 
just increase gravity in your room and stretch time
or...is it decrease
I don't know GR
 
@vzn I might get retarded, but I pass my classes
 
2:26 AM
@0celo7 I actually used these spaces in an answer to a physics question, though ;P
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer right now there are CS geeks deliriously wishing they picked engr :P
 
@vzn I guess
 
@ACuriousMind algebraic topology seems incredibly difficult
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer hung out on Computer Science for years and nearly all of em can barely carry a conversation :P youre just too cool for that :P
 
@vzn I only talk to people for the remote chance it might somehow get me laid
 
2:29 AM
@BernardoMeurer I'm not gay you know
 
vzn
@BernardoMeurer lol! exactly! & you say that like its a bad thing! :P
 
@0celo7 Your girlfriend has a cute friend
 
her boyfriend is an engineer
 
vzn
lol!
 
@0celo7 He might disappear at any given moment
 
2:30 AM
he is really small and skinny
you could take him out
 
@0celo7 Tell him to give Nika a cigarette
 
If I have a battery-powered circuit with a capacitor on it and I remove a dielectric from the capacitor, how much work does it take?
 
some
more than none
 
Thanks, I'll plug that right into my calculator, lol
 
@ArtOfCode Shoo, go home
 
2:31 AM
@ArtOfCode did someone get flagged?
 
@BernardoMeurer returns to lurk mode
@0celo7 no, I'm just always watching.
 
He's like that fox from Dora the Explorer
 
I'm sure it did.
 
What was the fox's name
Sniper?
 
WHAT DOES THE FOX SAY
 
2:32 AM
Sniper no swiping?
 
What is this about watermelons now
 
no
 
Swiper
 
Swiper no swiping sounds stupid
 
2:33 AM
@ArtOfCode Everytime you come around I make up my bed knowing I will soon go to sleep banned form the h-bar
 
maybe you should be a better chat user then...
 
@BernardoMeurer I'm curious now, given that I have not once banned you from chat :P
 
damn
 
@ArtOfCode That's because I learned from Dora that if I say no three times you won't do it
 
no, no, no
 
2:35 AM
@BernardoMeurer Ah, right. Does that work on you too? If I say no three times will you not break any rules?
:)
 
Did anybody happen to know the work involved in removing a dielectric from a capacitor? The internet and I can't seem to figure it out.
 
@ArtOfCode You say no three times I boot linux on some household item
 
yes, yes, yes
 
vzn
 
@vzn Me? s/engineer/computer scientist/
 
2:36 AM
Engineering is a shitty major
I should've gone for CS
 
maybe, maybe, maybe
 
mayhaps, mayhaps, mayhaps
For increased sophistication
 
perchance perchance perchance
 
@vzn See, they are building stuff, with their hands, ehw
 
vzn
2:39 AM
@BernardoMeurer dude we had this conversation before you started school... have no idea what youre on about. pre-quarterlife/ identity crisis? you dont wanna twiddle with math eqns all day like 0celo7 and ACM do you? ACM still cant even think of a thesis topic :P
 
possibly possibly possibly
 
@skill patrol Are you Sheldon Cooper?
 
@vzn I want to sell my body to lattice theory
 
@Anon234_4521 Nope
 
@BernardoMeurer no you don't
 
2:41 AM
@vzn What are you talking about? I'm currently working on my thesis on singular limits of M-theory compactification.
 
I bet you can't even define M-theory
 
I'll take that bet.
 
@ACuriousMind Is that physics?
 
@0celo7 For certain values of "define", I can.
@BernardoMeurer For certain values of "physics", it is.
 
Yay, I won!!!
 
vzn
2:42 AM
@ACuriousMind hallelujah you picked a topic. lol hah thought you werent around o_O ... & topic is suitably abstract ofc! :P
 
@ACuriousMind We all know you're just a mad genius who works as a hot dog seller somewhere in new york
 
Oops I was in the middle of a sentence:P
 
I'll have you know mcdonald's is a perfectly respectable career
</half-sarcasm>
 
@BernardoMeurer Not hot dogs; falafel are more my forte
 
@ACuriousMind The presence of @ArtOfCode triggers me
 
2:46 AM
@ArtOfCode been there done that :P
 
y'know there's an ignore button if you really can't stand me :P
 
I've ignored people
it doesn't work, you always wonder what they're saying
 
@BernardoMeurer I am at a complete loss what to do with that information.
 
@ACuriousMind Ban discussing art of code
 
@ACuriousMind he wants you to ban AoC
 
2:47 AM
@0celo7 Precisely
 
@BernardoMeurer ...the coder asks me to ban discussing the art of code?
 
Can one mod ban another?
 
@ACuriousMind Yes, I want us to ban each and everything about @ArtOfCode
 
@skillpatrol nope :)
 
@skillpatrol Yes, it's how WWE got started
 
2:48 AM
I've also noticed no discussion of ArtOfCode by anyone but you and 0celo7
 
@ACuriousMind We've been traumatized
 
well, if you're being technical they can, but it would not be a smart move
 
All the others who he touched are now dead
 
vzn
@skillpatrol sounds like batman vs superman :P or maybe shark vs gorilla...
 
And shog is the Incredible Hulk @vzn
 
vzn
2:50 AM
@skillpatrol thats funny, ACM managed to summon him recently! with the politics fiasco :P
 
I saw.
 
@ACuriousMind the hell does that mean?
 
@0celo7 He's accusing us of racketeering
 
what?
 
United we stand, divided we fall.
 
vzn
2:52 AM
always knew 0celo7 must be part of some kind of mafia :P
 
Gangsta
 
@0celo7 It means exactly what I said. There's no hidden meaning there; just saying that you seem to be the only two people paying attention to the otherwise unremarkable appearence of another user in chat
 
The jimmy Hoffa of the h-bar.
 
vzn
@ACuriousMind lol, you can surely understand why they might be a tiny bit )( paranoid :P ... & just because they arent doesnt mean nobodys out to get them :P
 
@ACuriousMind Sure, Darth Vader comes around and he's just another user
Now I see where you got the idea to ban politics from
 
2:55 AM
@vzn Three 6 Mafia, yes.
 
vzn
3:08 AM
Outlaws/ Thug Lifeâ„¢ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur
 
Agents also investigated the possibility that both killings were masterminded by members of Compton's Southside Crips gang. Both Death Row and Bad Boy were known to use gang members as security.
BIG and TuPac
 
3:27 AM
@BernardoMeurer That's not very nice, Art has done nothing to you.
 
@ACuriousMind How would one show that $L^2(X)\otimes L^2(Y)=L^2(X\times Y)$?
 
with gusto
 
@BalarkaSen I'm open to suggestions
I'm wondering if the measure on the right should be the product or the completion of the product.
 
@0celo7 Can you show it holds for compactly supported functions?
 
@ACuriousMind I don't know what "compactly supported" means for a measure space.
 
3:38 AM
@0celo7 I don't know what a measure space is :P
 
I'm not even sure if it's true in general
@ACuriousMind Are you being serious?
I'm not sure what the map should be
 
@0celo7 Half; certainly I can recall the definition if I try but I've never worked with them.
 
just...multiplication?
@ACuriousMind A set, a $\sigma$-algebra on the set, and a measure on the $\sigma$-algebra.
 
hey
 
@Slereah hi
 
3:40 AM
...I just said that I could recall the definition. Still, I find measure theory incredibly annoying and can't help you with it
 
Incredibly annoying?
What did measure theory ever do to you?
 
it measured him
obv
 
Sorry, @ACuriousMind is non-measurable
Cut him in half and you only get more of him
 
The proper sequence is: Think, then write; not write, then think, @0celo7
 
No I wasn't implying that you weirdo
 
3:42 AM
@ACuriousMind I think via my fingers
 
@Slereah That's right, I'm Tarski's dream
 
So
I have seen some introduction implying that not all fiber bundles are locally trivial
Is this true
 
garbage
 
I thought being locally trivial was the point
 
Right.
 
3:45 AM
@ACuriousMind To answer your question: for Lebesgue measure, I can prove it.
 
@Slereah Maybe you're reading something that conflates "fiber bundle" with "fibration"
 
I can prove it on compactly supported things, then extend to all of $L^2$ using BLT
 
@ACuriousMind I think upto homotopy it should still be true
 
could b
btw is the definition of a fiber bundle (bundle, base space, projection, fiber)
Or do you also need the chart
for the local trivialization
 
Nobody cares
 
3:48 AM
I do
 
@ACuriousMind Ah.
 
Then yes, you'd be writing local trivializations everytime
 
It holds for a large class of measure spaces, but I guess I shouldn't tell you.
 
Nobody does.
 
@Slereah Do you write your manifolds as $(M,U_i,\phi_i)$?
 
3:50 AM
@0celo7 In the introduction, yes
I guess what I'm asking is
Does the bundle + typical fiber + projection imply the atlas
Or do I still need it
 
no, it does not
 
alright
 
you need to define your vector bundle with the trivializations in the beginning
 
Otherwise just use the transition functions
 
@Slereah You need local triviality, otherwise you have just a fibration
 
3:51 AM
but when talking about them later, the atlas is lumped in with the rest of the notation
 
@ACuriousMind Art came to my house yesterday and broke my door
I have proof
 
Yeah
I also don't write $(\mathcal M, g, \nabla, \tau, \varepsilon)$ for a spacetime more than once :p
 
@Slereah I'm sure you can define them categorically
@Slereah you're forgetting the normal to the boundary
 
What boundary
No boundaries in me manifolds
 
that's boring
 
3:54 AM
How many theorems do boundaries fuck up with I wonder
Normal neighbourhoods aren't even open with boundaries
 
yeah, I don't know if the usual geodesic stuff works with boundaries
as long as you stay in the interior, you're fine
@Slereah All manifolds without boundary are incomplete
so all of the usual theorems fail in the Riemannian case
 
yeah
let's not bother with boundaries
 
but so many manifolds have boundaries
 
No manifold has a boundary, only manifolds with boundaries have boundaries, get your definitions right :P
 
@ACuriousMind oh please
 
3:58 AM
@0celo7 wat
 
I'm currently trying to prove things on manifolds with boundary
 
All manifolds are Hausdorff, only non-Hausdorff manifolds are not Hausdorff
etc etc
 
How is e.g. a sphere not complete?
 
Prove things on manifolds with corners instead
 
@ACuriousMind Shit. Please correct "without" to "with."
@BalarkaSen that sounds even worse
 
3:59 AM
@0celo7 Use only non-hausdorff manifolds from now on
Haudorff manifolds are for primary school
 
Hmm. A ball intersected with a cube is probably still nice enough for Sobolev embedding!
 

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