The h Bar

ACuriousMind

00:00

Hats are now live! Please try to not break the site too badly.

2

Sir Cumference

Huh, kind of weird seeing them on the new topbar

enumaris

what's a hat

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind "This is fine" is going to cause a ton of spam in the comments...

ACuriousMind

@enumaris An article of clothing that typically covers the head

enumaris

sounds bizarre

Sir Cumference

00:02

@enumaris Oh, they're things you can decorate your profile pic with

enumaris

why would you want to cover your head

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference Only if you misunderstand what it's awarded for :P

Sir Cumference

You have to unlock them.

ACuriousMind

You get it for deleting 10 comments from 2017, why would that cause comment spam?

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind Tons of people are gonna write comments and delete them like crazy

ACuriousMind

00:03

...why would they not just delete any 10 comments they made during the year?

Sir Cumference

@ACuriousMind I guess this is easier if they want to keep their old comments, or not destroy old conversations

ACuriousMind

SE thought of that: Click on the hat, it says:

Sir Cumference

@enumaris See the snowflake icon in the topbar? If you click that and click the words "Winter Bash", you'll see all the different hats and how to unlock them

ACuriousMind

> delete 10 of your own comments posted in 2017 before the start of Winter Bash [emphasis mine]

enumaris

what

I don't see a snowflake

Sir Cumference

00:05

@enumaris On any non-chat page on SE?

enumaris

oh, I see

Sir Cumference

@enumaris Yeah, click the words "winter bash" for a list

There are also secret hats that don't show up on that list. But usually they get discovered and are listed in a meta post as they are found

E.g.

4

Q: Winter Bash 2017 Hats

Well here's the traditional Winter Bash hats post. Same as last year there are two (and only two) answers: one for the secret hats, and one for the regular hats. Remember there are no hats for guessing secret hat triggers, nor one for pinging SE employees. Only edit the secret hat answer wi...

Actually this is the new page for secret hats. It'll get updated as people find them

ooolb

00:23

is there a blue hat

ACuriousMind

We don't know yet, the unearned hats are not displayed in colour

enumaris

01:31

ahhhh

enumaris

01:44

my profile pic doesn't really work with a hat tho

Sir Cumference

02:14

@enumaris You can change it :P

enumaris

kinda lazy tho

ooolb

02:38

@ACuriousMind how did you get that hat

ACuriousMind

'Tis a secret (I actually have no idea :D)

ooolb

you have less then 15 hours to tell me or yo-

oh

rip blue hat

@ACuriousMind what's your favourite nut butter?

ACuriousMind

...nut butter? As in peanut butter?

ooolb

yes

what did you think I meant.....?

ACuriousMind

I don't think I've ever had any nut butter except for peanut, and I don't particularly like that

ooolb

02:42

interesting

there seems to be a lot of variation between different brands though

every kind of peanut butter i've tried tastes different

my fav is pecan50%peanut50% mix

but i like cashew too

cashew is like 30 bucks a jar though

Sir Cumference

@ooolb Should be on that meta post I linked

ooolb

i already checked that

it said it's secret

so there's no single way to get it and the way listed is impossible for me

bolbteppa

04:10

20'th century won out

Semiclassical

:)

ooolb

04:54

wot

0celo7

The fall of western civilization

ooolb

out of the loop

enumaris

oh wow

Seems like he actually lost in 'bama

that's pretty surprising

ooolb

what the fock are you people talking about

0celo7

Hence my comment

It’s the end of days

ooolb

05:05

is it a USA thing?

0celo7

I’m gonna pass out now

enumaris

truly the end of days

ooolb

alright is someone gonna spill the beans or should i kms

0celo7

Do that

Good night

ooolb

:'(

Captain Bohemian

05:10

@ooolb you are still talking about peanut butter. You even have eaten mutiple kinds of peanut butters. It's like you like peanut butters very much. I have not eaten peanut butter for long. Since I ate once in my childhood and had the impression that I don't like it, I have never eaten it again.

ooolb

oh

well you need to get the real peanut butters

the oilless ones that are like cream cheese are kinda bad

Captain Bohemian

I like to eat peanut soup.

ooolb

wadat

Captain Bohemian

I don't know. I found I seem to like whole grain no matter which kinds of foods are concerned. Besides the example of peanut, another example is that I like sesame in whole grain, but don't like pulverized sesame.

ooolb

oh

you eat the skin on peanuts?

that's not edible i don't think

Captain Bohemian

05:19

no, i remove it.

ooolb

then what?

Captain Bohemian

i also prefer red bean, green bean in whole grain rather than the pulverized version of them in bread.

ooolb

wait a min

why does your bread have beans in it?

Captain Bohemian

that's just one kind of flavor, otherwise just bread tastes insipid.

just like you eat rice with dishes, not just rice, which tastes insipid.

ooolb

I have plain rice all the time

i like bland food personally

not a fan of flavours

Captain Bohemian

05:29

i have never heard anybody that way.

I am going out to hunt for food.

I feel insipid food very intolerable. I like very spicy food.

i don't drink bland water often, either.

ooolb

what's non-bland water?

dmckee

05:45

@ooolb There was a special election in the US state of Alabama today.

Hotly contested. Controversial.

The democrat appears to have won.

Which is a thing that just doesn't happen since the end of the democratic dominance in the "solid south" (another search terms here is "southern strategy").

ooolb

i figured that much

but why is it important

dmckee

Had it gone the other way president Trump would have been in a much stronger position to push his policy agenda. With this result his position doesn't change much: he has to keep enough support from the handful of senators in his party who have refused to simply fall in line to pass much of anything.

^ That's the immediate result.

ooolb

lol so...

were the comments above ironic?

dmckee

In the longer term it might represent a trend—divisive in the short term I would guess—that could change the basic electorial math.

@ooolb Not sure.

user228700

@JohnR: Hi! Was just wondering where you were! :-)

John Rennie

05:57

@Kaumudi.H morning :-)

I'm tending to stay in bed half an hour longer now it's so cold and dark in the mornings :-)

ooolb

@JohnRennie just so we're clear i'm not homophobic (cf. last week)

i got banned before i could reply

John Rennie

@ooolb I never thought you were

ooolb

well you called me out on it twice, (i felt was wholly inappropriate even considering what I said but, alright)

John Rennie

My problem was you were using the word homo as an insult.

ooolb

ah

you're assuming it was an insult

but there was no indication it was

user228700

06:00

@JohnRennie Ah, I see.

John Rennie

I know it was just a playground insult and not meant to be serious, but other people will take it seriously.

dmckee

That's a thing that was common among boys when I was youngster, too.

And many of us didn't connect it to anything at all—it was just a word.

ooolb

I meant homo as the genus lmao

you know like

John Rennie

Agreed, and that's why I didn't ban you - I just deleted the post.

ooolb

homo sapien sapiens

i flipped it to

(you know what don't wanna get banned again)

John Rennie

06:01

The thing is that if a mod/room owner deletes a post of yours just move on.

dmckee

A rather nasty side-effect of hate so permiating a culture that there is no push-back in public.

ooolb

@JohnRennie well i wasn't mad you deleted it :p

but you called it homophobic

and

John Rennie

You made a fuss of it, then someone flagged your fussmaking (it wasn't me) and that got you a 30 minute suspension.

ooolb

that's insulting to me

John Rennie

Then you reacted badly to that, and that got you the 24 hour suspension.

ooolb

06:02

well no i just said

"i'm not homophobic idiot"

and got 30 mins

lol

and then idk who it was but

John Rennie

My point is, if you had said nothing, just ignored it, then nothing would have happened.

ooolb

i wanted to break the ice by making a navy seal meme

but I wasn't trying to argue!

i was poking fun at my own suspension

John Rennie

Part of the reason I delete posts is if I think they will be flagged i.e. I'm deleting them partly to protect the person who posted them.

ooolb

lol

thanks but i didn't get banned from our ordeal

i got banned because I said i'm gonna find whoever keeps flagging (also got 0celo7 banned)

it was supposed to be sarcasm but

¯_(ツ)_/¯

John Rennie

There are some over enthusiastic flaggers around.

ooolb

06:05

@JohnRennie that's fine but

i don't get why i got 24 hrs

John Rennie

But remember that it takes two people to confirm a flag for the 30 minute suspension to apply.

ooolb

the flag gave me 30 mins, then i got 24 hours during the 30 mins

rob

Sarchasm: the gulf between the speaker who thinks they're making a joke and the listener who thinks they're not

ooolb

someone in the room gave me 24 hours for no reason

and i felt that was entirely uncalled for

it wasn't ACM so I have no idea who

John Rennie

The 24 hour ban was for threatening to hunt other room users down. I realise it wasn't meant seriously, but it looked serious.

ooolb

06:06

why is saying "i'mma find you"

John Rennie

@ooolb Me neither. Room owners can't issue bans (which suits me fine)

ooolb

equal to "hunting someone down"

those aren't even

urggggg

and then a pinned star for "threatening to hunt down other users in real life"

rob

@ooolb It was a mod from another room. Seemed appropriate to me.

ooolb

oh, really?

can you justify it please then

curious

John Rennie

@ooolb if taken literally it was an aggressive and threatening statement.

ooolb

06:09

hey @rob i'm gonna find you.

where's my 24 hours?

John Rennie

You know you didn't mean it literally, but other people don't.

ooolb

ya but how is that ^ above different?

if you're gonna ban me that day

ban me now then?

i guess some rando mod who has no business here just dropped by

and didn't know me and decided that i should be banned for 24 hrs

rob

@ooolb Repeated troublemaking usually leads to progressively longer suspensions. After a day usually comes a month.

ooolb

oh that's troublemaking?

rob

I would rather talk about basically anything other than "why was I suspended yesterday"

ooolb

06:12

i guessed the reason in my last message

i don't care but i'm just saying lots of you seem to think it was deserved

which is bothering kind of

rob

Let's move on to something interesting that doesn't involve slurs or threats

John Rennie

@ooolb I would have just deleted the message, but I can see why you got the ban.

ooolb

:|

rob

whether serious or not

John Rennie

It looked like you were directly threatening the person who flagged you.

ooolb

06:13

wait though why is finding someone irl bad?

how do you know i didn't want to find them to give them a hug?

i didn't threaten anything but alright let's move on

John Rennie

You're being disingenuous now.

Anonymous

@ooolb lolol XD

ooolb

nah because i never meant to threaten anyone, the comment itself was a meme, from the navy seal copy pasta which i made more chat appropriate.

>still gets banned

user228700

@JohnRennie Disingenuous is a nice word!

John Rennie

The point is, if anything kicks off then back away. Let it go. Move on.

ooolb

06:15

either way there was no threat and i'm not being disingenuous @JohnRennie because there was no threat to begin with.

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H I like it :-)

@ooolb if you genuinely don't think your post was threatening then you have a problem understanding the way other humans think.

user228700

Ugh, I should probably start studying ISE, seeing as the exam is tomorrow...

enumaris

drama

ooolb

@JohnRennie I have autism.

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H ISE?

@ooolb then you need to bear that in mind when posting.

user228700

06:16

@JohnRennie Introduction to Sustainable Engineering.

Anonymous

@ooolb Dude, stop and move on, man. It's been two days since that ban.

ooolb

@Blue more like a week but ya

i was making sure ppl didn't actually think I was serious lol

Sid

@Kaumudi.H Mug up stuff. You will pass easily

John Rennie

@ooolb thanks, I must admit I feel better now we've discussed it.

@Kaumudi.H I guess that's the sort of course no-one really wants to do but you have no option :-(

user228700

Yes :-/

user228700

06:19

6 modules to learn, gosh!

ooolb

@JohnRennie well, irl people know i'm being sarcastic because i smile or make some body language indication that it's sarcasm.

so it works fine

and thankfully there are no irl mods or i'd be banned from life

Sid

@ooolb in chat, you need to provide an emoticon at the end.

Anonymous

@ooolb Sure, no. But there are mods from others rooms who don't have time to read the context of your messages, if flagged. I was once banned for saying something like "I watch IPL only for the cheerleaders" in another chat room and some mod thought it was sexist and anti-feminist. :P

John Rennie

Even emoticons are not a reliable was of defusing posts online.

Anonymous

The flag system does have some issues, nothing to do about it.

John Rennie

06:21

Basically, in an online forum like this think before you post.

ooolb

i think I got banned for asking if someone had autism once in the chat

if that's not incredibly ironic idk what is

i was dying of laughter

John Rennie

@ooolb because autistic is used as an insult.

ooolb

TIL i'm an insult

feels bad dood

rob

I went through a phase in my twenties when I thought it'd be funny to harass people jokingly because they'd see what a nice guy I actually was and that I wasn't serious ... stopped when my wife asked me to explain why I had turned into such an asshole.

John Rennie

@ooolb The people who use it as an insult generally have no idea what it means.

Sid

06:22

@Blue Feminism isn't working great these days anyway

rob

Don't want to be misinterpreted? Then be clear

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H is this the last exam?

ooolb

random observation: if people don't take words like autistic, gay, or whatever as insults and don't be so sensitive to it, it will make the people who are those things feel better I believe.

it sucks to feel that what you are is an insult.

Anonymous

@ooolb That's some good point there

ooolb

like you don't get banned for calling someone normal.

John Rennie

06:26

I was called a swot (the word nerd wasn't used in the UK in the 60s) since I was at primary school.

ooolb

if I say @Blue, are you depressed? that's totally fine.

John Rennie

And it was meant as an insult.

ooolb

but if I say @Blue, are you autistic? then i'm banned

John Rennie

That's the way other humans are.

ooolb

though both are psychological conditions.

well other humans who aren't those things themselves I feel should fock off

Sid

06:26

@ooolb The Sensitivity to it is because we feel we haven't done enough for those people.

ooolb

and let those people speak for themselves

@Sid heh

alright so now they need other people's help?

John Rennie

But other humans won't behave the way you want them to, or even the way you consider logical.

You have to deal with that.

Sid

@ooolb No. But, other people haven't been terribly nice to them in the past either.

It is a more protective stance and even if you feel it is wrong, that's how the world works

Anonymous

@ooolb I'm sure the tone matters

ooolb

but for depressed it doesn't so my point still holds.

Anonymous

06:30

Yeah, that's because historically "Are you depressed?" wan't used as a insult

rob

@ooolb This seems dangerously like victim-blaming. "I just said a word, your reaction is your problem." There's a lot of interpersonal interaction missing there.

ooolb

@Sid people will continue to use those words as insults because they know it triggers everyone and that people do take it as an insult. if people just accept it and don't care then it can't be used as an insult anymore.

John Rennie

@ooolb slowly but steadily people are coming to realise that using words like that as insults is no longer acceptable. After all, this all started because I deleted a post where it looked as if the word homo was being used as an insult.

ooolb

and i'm saying that did not help anyone but we've moved on from that

John Rennie

Things will change, but change like that comes slowly and a bit at a time.

But if you confront people you just annoy them and harden their attitudes.

rob

06:34

@ooolb People use those words as threats: "you've been identified as some sort of outsider and you're in danger now."

DanielSank

@JohnRennie @ACuriousMind @DavidZ @BernardoMeurer @Kaumudi.H @0celo7 I am impressed by the second sentence of this post:

1

Q: Adding gauge fixing directly by hand is different from by Lagrange multiplier?

Why is adding gauge fixing directly different from doing so by Lagrange multiplier? For simplicity, we don't use field model. Direct method Consider a system $$L(x,\dot x,y,\dot y)=\frac{\dot x^2}{2}+\dot x y+\frac{(x-y)^2}{2} \tag{1} \, .$$ This system has gauge symmetry $$\delta x=f(t),\ \de...

classical-mechanics gauge-theory constrained-dynamics

"For simplicity, we don't use the field model."

rob

You don't get to erase that cultural history by personal fiat in a chat room

ooolb

perhaps where you live

in canada it's not like that

everybody is accepting basically

if you say something like that you will be the minority

Anonymous

I need to shift to Canada, then :P

ooolb

so barely anyone does

DanielSank

06:37

@rob Ho boy, we're having that conversation?

I find @ACuriousMind's definition of "offense" rather like a breath of fresh air whenever this sort of issue comes up.

Sid

@ooolb Canada is cool. The World is not.

ooolb

ya but that's the world i'm used to

so idk how y'all work

Anonymous

Are you a fair representation of Canadian people?

ooolb

no

why do you ask?

DanielSank

@rob Victim-blaming only comes into it if there's a victim.

ooolb

06:41

well in some areas I could be.

DanielSank

So, to be clear, who's the victim in this situation?

And what are they a victim of?

ooolb

nobody

that's why it's dumb

people are defending the victim that didn't* exist

DanielSank

That's what I'm wondering, and is why I asked Rob the question that I asked.

But see, there could be some victims. It depends on who says what and with what tone.

Suppose I call you a strawberry. Like, I just come here one day and say say "@ooolb, you are a strawberry".

ooolb

ban @DanielSank

i'm a blueberry

DanielSank

There's no context at all. We're not having an argument. Calling someone a strawberry has zero precedence as far as either of us knows, right?

Balarka Sen

06:44

@ooolb I got banned for saying that

DanielSank

So there are no victims.

Balarka Sen

Like a mod literally banned me for calling people normies

ooolb

lmao

Balarka Sen

and I wasn't really calling anyone particular that

DanielSank

^ tone is essential there

Balarka Sen

06:44

It was obviously a joke

"y'all are normies" or smthing like that

rob

@DanielSank Remind me what this is.

Balarka Sen

I don't think the people really understand what an insult is

Anonymous

@BalarkaSen It's not something objective, first of all. Not necessary everyone should understand it the same way as you do. :P

DanielSank

As I was saying... if I come here and get into a discussion with @ooolb, and we're talking about interpretations of quantum mechanics, and I say "ooolb, you are clearly an idiot, lacking any and all intelligence, and a curse upon your children and your children's children", then I have literally partaken in offense.

Mithrandir24601

@BalarkaSen I'm insulted by that remark ;P

DanielSank

06:46

I have made a comment which serves no logical purpose in the discussion. My comment serves only to hurt, to attack.

In this case, there is (from some point of view) a victim.

ooolb

@BalarkaSen remember last week. I said (in response to the user flagging every message) "you're probably finding this incredibly funny and laughing behind your laptop right now but i'll find you"

and I got 24 hours

DanielSank

ooolb is the victim of my attack.

ooolb

and then ACM said this

Dec 9 at 17:56, by ACuriousMind

@ooolb Yes. Threatening to hunt down other users in real life, even in jest, is unacceptable and this is not up for debate.

that is ridiculous

on every level

DanielSank

^ That does sound overboard.

ooolb

well @rob sure felt it was deserved

DanielSank

06:48

Some times the mods play conservatively. I don't really blame them, but some times it's too much.

I wasn't there, so I ain't saying more on that.

ooolb

fair.

DanielSank

Now, suppose I say "@ooolb, you are a dumb as a person from Timbuktu".

Balarka Sen

What @ooolb is saying, on the other hand, is of theoretical value. If we use an insult more and more as a loose, friendly banter, we'd reduce the value of the insult. It's true we need to stop putting every other word in a higher stature. But more practically, I don't think it's a good approach to go off calling people "autistic".

DanielSank

Now we have two victims.

ooolb

@BalarkaSen thanks man I say deep things when I'm half asleep at my laptop and have no idea what i'm really saying

Balarka Sen

06:50

@ooolb I did think it was kind of over the top but you were trolling so I wasn't really sure if I really did not support it

ooolb

@BalarkaSen i was in my trolling phase

Balarka Sen

lol

DanielSank

I am not only attacking @ooolb, but I'm also implying that people from Timbuktu are dumb.

Now, @rob, which victim were you referring to? I'm still not sure what you meant.

Balarka Sen

@Blue Yes, but what everybody should understand is "normie" is a word originating from 4chan. It literally means you're a normal person, capable of social interaction and having a girlfriend.

It's like a self-insult lmao

The mod percieved it as a derogatory word against normal people

Like, come on san

Sid

@BalarkaSen I don't recommend using 4chan language in a moderated chat...

Balarka Sen

06:53

What is "4chan language"?

ooolb

the closest clinical word for it would be NT.

Balarka Sen

You use memes. That comes from 4chan.

That's a ridiculous thing to say

DanielSank

@rob Roughly put: an offense is a motion to attack intelligence, character, etc. particularly in lieu of contributing to the logical discussion at hand.

ooolb

lol i'm barely able to keep my eyes open

gnight you humans

Balarka Sen

'night

DanielSank

06:56

@ooolb Good night you animal.

Balarka Sen

roasted

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