The h Bar

ACuriousMind

5:00 PM

@0celo7 Your knowledge about my private life is unsettling :P

Rigor

Slereah would have blown a fuse on this visit :P

perhaps another suspension

with Thee Evidence :-)

AngusTheMan

Hi everyone! So I have been on this forum for a good year plus now and this is the first time I have ever heard of this chatroom! You guys need to work on your advertising ;)

0celo7

@ACuriousMind uh no Germans play football

it's "tribal nonsense" or something

David Z

@AngusTheMan I guess we could stand to advertise the chat sessions more

Slereah

What I did this week end

@Rigor I did not blew a fuse

I blew a washing machine

ACuriousMind

5:06 PM

lol

Danu

@Angus it's an exclusive lounge ;)

David Z

@Rigor okay, note to everyone: if things get to that point, it's probably time to stop discussing in public and just notify the mods

0celo7

@DavidZ remember how shocked everyone was when it came out I'd been a chat regular for half a year and had never heard of them

David Z

uh, vaguely :-/

Danu

Liar ^

AngusTheMan

5:07 PM

@Danu haha I can see!

David Z

We used to create notifications on the site for chat sessions, but it's impossible to do them automatically and we got tired of manually having to remember to do it every two weeks

AngusTheMan

ah.. is this not always open?

0celo7

the chat is open as long as ACM or myself are in here

Rigor

@AngusTheMan it is open 24/7

0celo7

I think we're in here most often, bar AFKers

ACuriousMind

5:08 PM

@DavidZ Uh...I do get notifications for the chat sessions on the days they are. I s this because I've been in chat recently?

0celo7

wtf I've never gotten notifications

David Z

@ACuriousMind probably because you're registered

0celo7

even PSE ignores me

ACuriousMind

@DavidZ Ahhhhhhh

David Z

see chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/71/the-h-bar?tab=schedule

ACuriousMind

5:09 PM

I'd forgotten I'd done that

David Z

~~aw it borked my link~~ fixed

0celo7

registered

does anyone have tinnitus tips?

Huy

@0celo7 I'm sure you'll get used to it in a week or two.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Yeah, don't get tinnitus

It sucks

0celo7

used to it

does it not go away?

Rigor

5:11 PM

usually

0celo7

I'm definitely taking earplugs to the next game

Rigor

not much is known about it

AngusTheMan

I got it after an ACDC concert. Just gotta ride it through I think :/

Rigor

^

0celo7

the fact that UT plays turn down for what for every 3rd down doesn't help

towards the end we were screaming so loud you could only hear the muffled bass

Rigor

5:13 PM

Wait till you see the NFL

0celo7

how many people fit in an NFL stadium

there were 102,500 people there yesterday

Rigor

80-90K

0celo7

are NFL games even crazier?

Rigor

some

depends on the team

0celo7

some guy got hauled off by the cops, I wonder what he did

Rigor

5:16 PM

SF/Oak games have stabbings

0celo7

that's almost as bad as soccer riots

Rigor

Guns are taken away at the door

0celo7

@ACuriousMind do you participate in soccer riots

yeah they patted us down

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 lol, no

0celo7

I can't imagine ACM rioting tbh

Secret

5:18 PM

0celo7

I can imagine him shanking a dude in a crowd, on the other hand

2

Secret

Investigating the difference between the k+1 th and kth iterate gives an interesting graph as k increases

for $y=x^2$

0celo7

he uses his socks as a misdirection tool

then goes in for the kill

Rigor

:D

0celo7

wow you just love to brown nose your master

Rigor

5:21 PM

it fit, no?

I don't "brown nose" anybody pal

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Thanks for the compliment :)

0celo7

@ACuriousMind you're a natural born killer

Adaro & Digital Punk - Natural Born Killers (Full) [HD]

►

good song

ACuriousMind

blocked :D

bolbteppa

@Danu I had a quick browse through some of the references, can't find anything like your example :(

0celo7

it's made by a dutch and italian dude!!!!!

wtf Germany, why are you a PoS

youtube != piracy

Rigor

5:25 PM

@ACuriousMind do you have a piece of the Berlin wall?

0celo7

why would he

ACuriousMind

@Rigor No, why would I?

0celo7

twinsies

Rigor

Just wondering.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind what's your knife of choice

ACuriousMind

5:26 PM

@0celo7 That's classified information.

0celo7

I'm declassifying it

Rigor

I can't think of another country that divided east and west?

0celo7

Virginia

Secret

Linear iterative system:
The fixed points are zeros of the difference function (where a is allowed to change)
I am pretty sure I have seen a theorem of this somewhere...

If a=0 or 1, the linear iterative function is guareentee to have fixed points everywhere for all x

Secret

6:03 PM

The difference stays at the value b

AngusTheMan

6:43 PM

just a general question, but have any of you guys experienced a sharp pain in your head when you are sat near a wifi router? I'd say it was unrelated but every time I move the router it goes.

Slereah

I do, it is called "going to work"

obe

@AngusTheMan I feel light headed if I stay near one for too long.

AngusTheMan

haha maybe it would be a good excuse to get out the lab an hour early XD. Hmm I definitely think they effect you though :/

obe

Recently in my high school they installed one in every room.

The internet is really fast now... though it will definitely effect the students.

0celo7

chat died

@obe my iPhone refused to connect to my school's wi-fi

it was a "poor connection" and it was "avoided"

obe

6:52 PM

@0celo7 It didn't even list it on your wifi setttings?

0celo7

@obe it did, but when you tried to connect it gave that error

in the library...time to study or play video games?

@obe do you need anything from angular momentum clarified or rephrased

I'm serious when I say that's one of the most important chapters

obe

I believe you, I'll ask some in a few hours.

I have to leave my house.

0celo7

@AngusTheMan huh?

@obe huh?

obe

@0celo7 huh?

0celo7

y'all have strangeness going on

obe

7:02 PM

You're the only normal person here.

0celo7

I guess

I think @Huy is alright as well

obe

I'm the only screwed person here right now.

I think.

I saw that.

0celo7

(removed)

you didn't see anything

what you did see is the professor yelling at you asking what $1\otimes 2$ could mean

obe

what is that?

0celo7

and, being smart and having read Shankar, you said $3\oplus 2\oplus 1$

obe

7:06 PM

right.

0celo7

now what is $\frac{1}{2}\otimes\frac{1}{2}\otimes\frac{1}{2}$

obe

did I even learn this?

0celo7

"addition of angular momentum"

obe

right I failed that chapter.

ask that again in 5 hours.

0celo7

sigh

what do you know

obe

7:10 PM

who knows.

0celo7

do you know why the norm on the space of states needs to be positive

obe

can you ask that in latex?

0celo7

will the professor yell at you in LaTeX

obe

to be fair I'm not offering tuition therefore time will not be expended on me.

though in office hours perhaps.

0celo7

OTOH you have no real way to complain about him yelling at you

he might yell at you on principle

obe

7:13 PM

I'm scared already.

0celo7

given a state $|\psi\rangle$, why should $\langle\psi|\psi\rangle >0$

user54412

@AngusTheMan There is no way whatsoever for wifi to affect you physiologically. If you are experiencing something from it, I assure you it is purely psychosomatic.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite You're telling me wifi cannot irradiate my brain?

obe

@0celo7 uh because it has to be normalized?

0celo7

@obe what

obe

7:16 PM

idk...

user54412

@0celo7 Well not if you wear your standard-issue tin-foil hat and keep a crystal pyramid in your pocket.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite check and...check

good to know my astrological friend

@obe what is the born rule

and why is PSE chat using my GPU

I'm convinced bootcamp windows doesn't know how to use the intel integrated graphics

obe

@0celo7 born rule? isn't that for probability?

0celo7

you better not be looking this up

this really is something that you should know

obe

I did not learn this.

0celo7

7:20 PM

you're telling me Shankar does not tell you the Born rule

obe

find it and show me.

0celo7

I'm switching over to the partition that has Shankar

obe

gl.

0celo7

(4.2.1)

you're an idiot

user54412

@0celo7 that's probably right

0celo7

7:23 PM

@ChrisWhite that explains the shitty battery life on Windows

obe

@0celo7 I don't disagree.

0celo7

thanks buddy

although he does not call it the Born rule...

user54412

@0celo7 the conspiracy theory (which I'm inclined to believe) is that apple does this intentionally to make windows seem worse

0celo7

@obe you're half forgiven

obe

Thank you lord.

0celo7

7:24 PM

is (4.2.1) new to you

or did you know it

obe

I knew it.

0celo7

and now you shall explain why the norm should be positive

because that comes up in QED

@ChrisWhite I use Windows more than OSX now

obe

I have to leave.

Bye.

0celo7

bye

AngusTheMan

@ChrisWhite I know there is no accepted correlation, but every damn time someone is on an iPad or something my head is really sore! Even before I know they are using it, therefore cannee be imaginary. :s

0celo7

7:32 PM

@ChrisWhite where's your science now

user54412

@AngusTheMan then it's en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

user54412

seriously, radio waves are simply not capable of even disrupting a single electron in your body

0celo7

@ChrisWhite how about en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterrestrial_life

HDE 226868

86

Q: Are WiFi waves harmful?

Has it been proven that being exposed to WiFi waves is harmful?

AngusTheMan

couldn't they flip spin states of nuclei ?

HDE 226868

7:36 PM

See also links therein.

skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/14501/… and skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/19762/….

The latter points to electromagnetic sensitivity.

. . . which is not a real medical condition.

AngusTheMan

see look at that microwave picture... CASE CLOSED "straps on extra tinfoil hat"

user54412

@AngusTheMan Ever had an MRI? That flips all sorts of spins, and the only discomfort is the fact that the pillows they use are usually pretty thin.

Stan Shunpike

@Danu didn't she win it because she kept a blog?

Huy

@0celo7 what makes you think that ?

user54412

Okay betting pool time. Where will we first find extraterrestrial life: Mars, Europa, Ceres, Enceladus, Titan, around another star?

HDE 226868

7:44 PM

@ChrisWhite How are we defining "life"?

Signs of life, organic molecules, or living creatures?

AngusTheMan

@HDE226868 I didn't come here to read "organic molecules"

shudders

user54412

@HDE226868 Living creatures (aka sufficiently complex self-replicating assemblages of matter that maintain non-equilibrium conditions on appropriate scales).

0celo7

@Huy gut feeling

Huy

ic

a friend of mine is thinking about buying the mouse as well

0celo7

you could be a creep for all I know

Huy

7:48 PM

any problems apart from it being bigger than expected?

user54412

Considering interstellar space has amino acids and aromatic structures, organic molecules aren't terribly interesting.

0celo7

no, I really like the scroll wheel

which I thought I wouldn't

Huy

which mouse did you have before ?

0celo7

it's very stiff, so there's very little chance of scrolling while clicking

HDE 226868

@ChrisWhite Hm. I'll say Europa. But it will only be microorganisms; nothing special. A probe will find something in the ice possibly in a liquid "lake", not the oceans.

0celo7

7:50 PM

amazon.com/Genuine-Dell-Optical-3-Button-Compatible/dp/…

HDE 226868

Man, this is a crappy article.

Huy

don't know that one. how is the scroll wheel on the Logitech different, @0celo7?

user54412

"Europa might have plumes."

user54412

excellent section

HDE 226868

There are more references than sentences.

0celo7

7:51 PM

I don't see the issue with that article

user54412

the dramatic build up with the second word ("might"), followed by the shocking conclusion in the fourth ("plumes") makes this a worthwhile read

user54412

definitely worth spending extra time digesting the depth of the implication

0celo7

@Huy I'll make a comparison video when I get home

Huy

cool

HDE 226868

I've never been so tempted to actually rewrite a Wikipedia article.

0celo7

7:53 PM

I wrote a decent part of the Lagrangian article

HDE 226868

@0celo7 Impressive.

0celo7

note that this is obscured

it seems someone split off the Lagrangian article into Lagrangian (field theory)

but I stopped doing Wiki stuff

I got into a week long argument about GR with someone, it got out of hand

I kept getting my revisions rolled back

I just said fuck it and have never gone back

I think he was mad at me because he had written a lot of the Lagrangian article

and I completely changed it

he used a user12262 style notation with [] instead of () for functions

we ended up arguing about the validity of using the energy functional

whatever, it was dumb

Slereah

8:09 PM

[] is for functionals :p

0celo7

no shit

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 sup?

0celo7

I'm taking the kids

I would ask for alimony but you're a bum

FenderLesPaul

you can take the kids

they like Weinberg's GR book anyways

I don't want nothin to do with them

I'll pay you bus fare

0celo7

you're a monster

FenderLesPaul

8:12 PM

no

I am

Batman

how was the game?

@obe how was school dude?

sorry I didn't get to your mechanics question

0celo7

he had a mechanics question?

@FenderLesPaul you're too skinny for that :P

@FenderLesPaul you're a monster

@FenderLesPaul only one of them does and I don't like that one either

obe

@FenderLesPaul It begins tomorrow. ;/

0celo7

I thought you had to leave

obe

I did leave.

0celo7

8:27 PM

so explain why the norm has to be positive

obe

because the probability has to be positive?

0celo7

yes, good job

obe

wtf.

0celo7

so what do you do if you find a vector that has negative norm

obe

change of basis?

idk.

0celo7

8:30 PM

pull a Witten and go for 26 or 10 dimensions

(this happens in string theory)

obe

I see, it seems exciting.

I bought QFT by mandl.

Because it was only 30 dollars.

Did you look at that book?

0celo7

never heard of it

obe

Look here

If you feel like looking, are the contents ok?

It has a new chapter on renormalization.

0celo7

@obe an example from string theory: the state $\alpha^0_{-m}|0\rangle$, $m>0$ has norm $-m\langle 0|0\rangle$

in 26 dimensions this state is orthogonal to all physical states so you'll never see it

obe

what does that state represent?

0celo7

8:39 PM

nothing, it's unphysical

obe

what does it do then?

0celo7

well, it's the time component of something

but we never quantize that way, so I have no clue

it doesn't do anything in 26 dimensions

@FenderLesPaul you're into stringy stuff, what does that state do

at least, you told that one prof that

and I know you wouldn't lie

FenderLesPaul

9:15 PM

@0celo7 idk strings though

It's true I never lie

0celo7

I've given up on a GR talk

that's pretty sad

there are many people on here who would appreciate my books

FenderLesPaul

can I have your copy of HE?

0celo7

you're a monster

FenderLesPaul

I'm a pokemon

0celo7

why don't you want the GR talk

Slereah

9:27 PM

Is there any recent edition of HE, I wonder

The one I have is old as shit

0celo7

I have a 2006 reprint

@obe I can obtain Mandl.

@skillpatrol @Rigor motherfck skins lost

FenderLesPaul

@0celo7 what do you mean I don't?

you're the one who said you don't just now o.o

obe

10:07 PM

@0celo7 Cool from the library?

0celo7

@obe "obtain" != library

I didn't check

obe

@0celo7 For me? or for your own reading?

I did not see that.

;(

0celo7

looks like I could order it, we don't have it on site

obe

10:27 PM

Order it to read?

I asked this before, is wave-particle duality real?

In ballentine it says it's fake.

(Bad word choice)

ACuriousMind

@obe Depends on what you mean by "real"

And depends on what exactly you mean by "wave-particle duality" :P

dmckee

It is true that quantum states can exhibit wave-like properties under certain circumstances and particle-like properties under other circumstances.

obe

How though?

dmckee

It is even true that some experiment (like diffractive scattering) require you to invoke wavelike handwaving during part of your explanation and particle-like handwaving for another part.

@obe That is a very good question, and I'm glad that you asked. If you ever figure it out in detail be sure to write a paper about it as the rest of us would really like to know, too.

obe

10:42 PM

I see.

@ACuriousMind In rigorous quantum mechanics how is the phenomenon described?

> In Sec. 4.2 we cautioned against too literal an
interpretation of the notion of wave–particle duality, stressing that a system of
N interacting particles does not correspond to N interacting waves in three-
dimensional space, but rather to a single wave function in 3N-dimensional
configuration space. But that was merely a theoretical assertion, which was
not justified by any empirical evidence at that time.

dmckee

By summing over states. Everything in rigorous QM is described by summing over states.

Except when you are suppose to sum over probabilities.

Know the difference is, of course, the key insight needed for the shut-up-and-calculate interpretation.

obe

Can it be said that wave-particle duality is an interpretation?

ACuriousMind

@obe Well...it isn't described. It's not really a "phenomenon". It's that sometimes intuition suited for classical waves and sometimes intuition suited for classical particles is appropriate for quantum behaviour

obe

Then it is only an intuitive thing?

Like an electron is neither a wave or a particle right?

ACuriousMind

I've never seen a more technical statement of the "duality" than "Sometimes quantum stuff behaves like a wave, sometimes like particles"

So, yeah, it's rather something on the level of intuition

@dmckee When all you have is a hammer...

dmckee

10:56 PM

Hey, it's a really great hammer!

ACuriousMind

Not disputing that :)

Danu

11:20 PM

@bolbteppa I told you he's unique

I just tonight started reading Guillemin & Pollack's book on differential topology

and it seems a lot of the first sections come from it!!!

...but they won't do vector fields I assume

bolbteppa

The exercises around page 138 - 141 seem to be flirting with the ideas?

Danu

First game of Federer - Djokovic is ridiculously tense

AWWWWWWWWYIS 1-0

GO FEDERER

DanielSank

derp

user54412

@Danu The very first tennis match I saw in person was Federer-Isner earlier this week.

Danu

@ChrisWhite I'm jelly

u rich brah? :P

user54412

11:35 PM

Apparently Federer was more popular even with the American crowd.

user54412

@Danu last row in the stadium :p

Danu

Federer literally drawing first blood

Got broken, but immediately breaks back like a BOSS

Then a love service game

@ChrisWhite Duh :D

@DanielSank What, you don't care about tennis?

@ChrisWhite Better than nothing!

I've only been to Holland's only (ex-?)ATP tournament

and I was a little kid back then

0celo7

is tennis actually interesting?

user54412

11:52 PM

@0celo7 <insert derogatory comment about college football here>

0celo7

@ChrisWhite bet you can't find one

user54412

actually, I find football uninteresting for the same reason I find chess uninteresting (@Danu) -- watching other people spend large amounts of time not doing anything just can't be made exciting

0celo7

@FenderLesPaul you know what you have to do

FenderLesPaul

what o.o

DanielSank

@Danu Huh? Tennis is great. I was just derping around... so I said "derp".

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