This Is Fine - 2019-10-04

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Unionhawk

01:39

@TimStone unrelatedly, thinking about how Obama promised card check haha oh well

Memor-X

01:56

Trump suggests government consider starting its own news network

not a new idea. think he already tried it in the form of a news show

Stormblessed

02:37

@Memor-X he’s said that before

That’s like the 3rd step probably to becoming an authoritarian

Literally all the big, very fucked-up authoritarian countries have state TV

I don’t know of any democracies with it

Memor-X

02:51

@Stormblessed there's state funded networks which would obviously have a abias

ABC here is funded by the government

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) is Australia's national broadcaster founded in 1929. It is principally funded by the direct grants from the Australian government, but is expressly independent of government and partisan politics. The ABC plays a leading role in journalistic independence and is fundamental in the history of broadcasting in Australia. Modelled on the BBC in the United Kingdom, it was originally financed by consumer licence fees on broadcasting receivers. Licence fees were abolished in 1973 and replaced principally by direct government grants, as well as revenue from...

> The ABC is funded mainly by the Australian government, in addition to some revenue received from its retail outlets. Government funding to the ABC was $1,036.1 million in 2016-17; $1,043.7 million in 2017-18; and is estimated at $1,045.9 million in 2018-19.

Stormblessed

03:12

@Memor-X yeah

US does have like Radio Free {insert place}, but that’s not something aimed at its own citizens

It’s weird, the New York Times calls the whistleblower male

But looking around, there seems to not be anything public saying the gender

I guess they wouldn’t guess?

Yuuki

03:28

@Memor-X All of the public broadcasts get funding from the government as well, IIRC.

But there's a difference between public funding and government news network.

3 hours later…

Memor-X

06:35

GOP Sen. Sasse breaks with Trump's call for Biden investigation: "Americans don't look to Chinese commies for the truth"

Yuuki

07:07

@Memor-X Normally, I'd feel offended but honestly I'll take what I can get.

4 hours later…

Wipqozn

11:29

The Bloc Québécois is calling on Quebeckers to vote for candidates “who resemble you” in the election, prompting NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh to denounce the message as unacceptable and divisive. theglobeandmail.com/politics/…

Tim Stone

12:05

That over the top racism where you have to be white and wielding a baguette

Ukraine will "audit" the Biden case, presumably in an attempt to delay dealing with the White House

Unionhawk

12:24

@TimStone which isn't even an effective weapon

1 hour later…

Stormblessed

13:34

CNN not running Trump ads with "demonstratably false" claims

> The 30-second commercial claims Biden promised Ukraine $1 billion to fire a prosecutor looking into “his son’s company.” Hunter Biden sat on the board of energy firm Burisma but does not own it, and while Biden was key in the Obama administration’s efforts to remove Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin by using U.S. aid as leverage, no evidence indicates Biden sought to help his son. Widely criticized for his handling of corruption cases, Shokin was eventually voted out of office.

The ad goes on to criticize another common Trump target by accusing “media lap dogs” of aiding Democrats’ impe…

BradC

@Stormblessed I think that's the right decision, but I'm afraid it'll only fuel the "fake news is against me" machine

user15026

@Wipqozn did you see the official immigration page for Quebec shows that the ministry changed from immigration, diversity and inclusion to immigration, Frenchification and integration?

Wipqozn

13:51

@Ash Nope, but I'm not even remotely surprised.

Nzall

14:03

Government documents released in a Scottish court case state Boris Johnson has accepted that he will follow the Benn act, asking for an extension to the Brexit deadline if no agreement has been made by October 19th

Elva

14:33

@Stormblessed the determination for such things should be "not demonstrably true" really

Actually that should be the requirement for all news and ads...

Nzall

14:49

@Elva ads, okay, but not all news

Elva

What is (or should be) news but bringing facts to people in (hopefully) relatable ways?

And note "The president has been accused of $lastThingTrumpDidOnADayEndingInY" is easily demonstrably true

Nzall

Reporting on rumours has an important place in journalism: it allows for earlier public debate over future plans, giving the public a chance to hopefully impact political decisions before they are enacted as law

@Elva Who do you think should demonstrate something is true?

Like, are you talking about "Journalists should only report on things they have verified with their own sensory perception to be true"?

Elva

Reputable sources that have not been shown to lie repeatedly (aka, you couldn't use trump as proof of something but...)

Nzall

@Elva What if an anonymous whistleblower who you never met before wants to report news?

Elva

Check their credentials, if the credentials check out go "An anonymous whistleblower from $whatever informed us"

Nzall

14:57

Like, imagine a Deep Throat scenario during this campaign. That was an informant who was instrumental in blowing the lid off the Watergate

Elva

Let's rephrase "demonstrably true" for "the journalist has reasonable evidence to support it"

BradC

@Nzall The mainstream media tendency to "report on rumors" and therefore amplify them has been aggressively and deliberately exploited in the last few years, not only by Russia, but by right-wing troll farms like 4chan, etc

That could look like: run entirely fake article in obscure paper > amplify on RT > tweet-storm via bot farms > picked up by right-wing US outlets > covered by mainstream outlets

Or it could start as an entirely made up tweet that gets similarly amplified

Yuuki

@Nzall We don't need to imagine a Deep Throat scenario going on right now.

There literally is one, that's what this whole whistleblower thing is about.

BradC

So I think the way over-time that mainstream media needs to drastically rethink its rules

@Yuuki Only this one is supported by Trump's own words and tweets

Yuuki

@BradC I suppose I'd have to imagine Nixon going on TV and yelling, "I DID THE CRIMES, CHEDDAR!".

Elva

15:11

I DID THE CRIMES. THE PEOPLE SAYING THEY'RE INVESTIGATING ME ARE NO LONGER MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE I SAY SO. THERE WERE NO CRIMES IT WAS ALL LEGITIMATE. YOU SHOULD LOOK INTO MY OPPONENTS, THEY DID THE CRIMES TOO!

puzzlepiece87

He Never Intended To Become A Political Dissident, But Then He Started Beating Up Tai Chi Masters

Elva

That's a good article! Saw it pop up in my RSS feed

puzzlepiece87

I really enjoyed it as well!

Nzall

@BradC The problem is that if the rumour turns out to be true, it's usually one of the earlier reports that gets the most traction. Right now, there just isn't a lot of views and thus money to be had from patiently waiting for the news to be confirmed.

There is a big problem in media right now, one that's been around for a long time, that you need to report on something as soon as possible, or else people interested in it will go to other media

puzzlepiece87

tl;dr China actively promotes tai chi as Chinese culture via state propaganda. Mediocre MMA fighter got tired of fabricated bullshit involving "personal force fields" and watermelons being televised as fact, so he started decimating the tai chi masters in fights. Government got mad at him for doing so, but he's stubborn, so he's been doubling down even though he's probably going to end up on permanent house arrest.

BradC

15:15

@Nzall I agree that it's a tricky problem, exacerbated by the "first to the byline" problem. I'm not suggesting that "ignore everything that isn't directly reported by my journalists' sources" is necessarily the answer.

But "report on (unconfirmed thing) just because its making a stir in some circles" should get a heaping dose of "hol up" most of the time

Nzall

@BradC the problem is "if you don't, someone else will"

There are a lot of media that aren't really as hindered by the whole "wait for confirmation" aspect

and if you want to beat them in the scoop, you may not have the luxury to wait

The way that the reputable news outlets try to combat that is through making in-depth investigative reports on a recent topic. So they're not immediate on the scoop, but they often have extra special information from their own sources that might not be confirmed itself but where they trust the news source

Frank

@BradC Only through...incompetence?

I suspect his aides would have happily fogged and stonewalled the whole thing.

So it's less Trump shooting himself in the foot, and more blowing the foot clean off.

Elva

@puzzlepiece87 you're misstating how it started though: "Xu called Wei Lei “brainwashed” and “a dumbass.” In retaliation, Wei Lei, or one of his associates, published Xu’s personal information, including his address and phone number online. Xu, enraged, flew to the southwestern city of Chengdu, where Wei is based, walked into the tai chi master’s gym, and demanded they fight right there on the spot."

@Frank hands Trump a few more shotguns with HE rounds

(Because of course high explosive shotgun rounds exist)

Frank

@Elva He really is his own worst enemy.

Elva

Can you imagine if he was this evil and remotely competent?

Like, competent enough to know when to shut up and listen. Not a high bar!

BradC

15:27

@Frank More like "brazen disregard for laws and restraints of any kind; in a demonstration of his complete and utter narcissism: everything he does as president is for his own benefit, not the benefit of the country he swore to protect"

@Elva He's competent enough to purge the entire executive branch of anyone that might stand in his way, and steamroll over any and all obstacles to give him what he wants

Frank

@BradC Which, in a political perspective, is incompetence, if you ask me.

@BradC And that's why there's three branches.

Elva

@BradC true enough

BradC

I do have some optimism about the way this is going now, but I think you all are underestimating how close we are to him successfully completing an authoritarian takeover of this country.

He has succeeded at getting the law-enforcement branch of the government to do his political will

In clear and obvious violation of their oath to the constitution

Frank

@BradC That's a more dark perspective than I've seen from others.

@BradC DOJ?

BradC

@Frank Yes, under Barr

Using the levers of government to smash down your political opponents is chapter 1 of the official authoritarian textbook

And its fucking close to working

Frank

15:32

@BradC It's classic authoritarian behaviour; install people due to trust, not competence.

This is, unfortunately, the result of the divide between the left and the right; there doesn't seem to be any middle ground, so the feud becomes more and more bitter.

BradC

If he had succeeded in keeping these Ukranian talks quiet a little longer, Ukraine was on the verge of publicly expressing they were investigating Biden

Which would have been taken up by Trump and his cronies as proof

puzzlepiece87

@Elva And he called him brainwashed and a dumbass for participating in fabricated bullshit on TV shrugs

BradC

@Frank Nah, this isn't a left vs right; this is a "cast my loyalty on a man who will screw the libs, at any cost" vs "let's establish a committee to decide whether to vote to perhaps begin to consider looking into the possible issues going on"

Elva

@puzzlepiece87 my point was more that he didn't just start fighting people :p

Frank

@BradC Well, yeah; the system as it is allows either side to cloud the issue by injecting emotions as the motivation for their actions.

puzzlepiece87

15:38

@Elva :P

Frank

Nobody is trying to, or willing, to compromise, and work towards uniting the fracture.

And that can be used by bad faith actors to ensure their own agendas are met, instead of trying to enrich the country as a whole.

Wipqozn

@Frank One thing to keep in mind is that compromise isn't always possible. Sometimes the gap between views is just too large.

Especially on issues of human rights violation, as just one example. You can't really compromise on that.

BradC

@Frank I think that Democrats have (legitimately) been burned by the false promise of "compromise" by the right; so I think they are justified in being extremely suspicious about supposed calls to compromise.

user image

puzzlepiece87

Well said.

Frank

@Wipqozn It is, and that's kind of the problem.

Wipqozn

15:42

@BradC also this is accurate. usually "compromise" is something only expected of the left.

puzzlepiece87

@Wipqozn Yes exactly.

Frank

The division only becomes larger because it's a fundamental divide, and there's nobody running on a centrist platform.

It's a product of a two party system; they only become more extreme as reflections of their opposition.

BradC

@Frank I'm frankly not sure the idea of a "centrist platform" is a coherent one, at this point in time. Or, to put it another way, I think Democrats run from left to centrist and Republicans run from far right to insanely far right

Frank

@BradC The idea is that with another party to split the votes, it means extreme platforms have much less coverage.

Yuuki

> Republicans run from ~~far right to insanely far right~~ reality

FTFY

Frank

15:47

Right now, the choices are, fundamentally, left wing, or right wing.

There's not really any need to make a distinction.

BradC

So I absolutely believe there is room for a range of political opinions on a variety of issues, but I find the range of coherent positions to be almost entirely within the Democratic party, not between the Democrats and GOP

Frank

The parties themselves weed out choices by distilling it down to a single person.

BradC

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders blow past Joe Biden in fundraising race

I continue to be optimistic about Warren's momentum in this race; I think she'll also get a boost from early states once primaries actually start

Yuuki

@BradC I really hope one of them stays in the Senate, I'd rather not have both in the executive branch.

BradC

@Yuuki I'd love a Warren / Castro ticket; or maybe Warren / Booker

@Yuuki Both Warren and Sanders were re-elected to the Senate in 2018, so neither are up for re-election in 2020. So the only way they leave their post is by winning, or perhaps by appointment to a position in the new administration

Yuuki

16:00

@BradC The reason I'm mentioning that is because a lot of people seem to want a Warren/Sanders ticket or vice-versa.

And I'd rather avoid that. They have similar views and it's best if one of them works the executive branch and the other pursues legislative solutions.

BradC

@Yuuki Hmm, I've not actually heard that seriously proposed. I agree, I don't think I'd support that

Yuuki

God knows, the Republicans have wreaked enough havoc with Trump in the executive and McConnell in the Senate.

BradC

16:18

Excellent thread summing up our current political situation, by the former director of the Office of Government Ethics:

twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1180123870055030787

> Twenty-one. That's how many Republican Senators need to decide whether they love America. I don't like thinking about parties, but 21 stand in the way of saving America from the catastrophic consequences of President Trump's republic-destroying corruption.

Frank

@BradC As much as I agree, the framing here is just going to offend the target audience.

BradC

(searching for the perfect shrug.gif)

user image

I mean, that's kind of the point of the thread. (Not to offend GOP senators, but to call out GOP senators on their cowardice in not standing up for the rule of law and for their oath of office)

Which... is objectively what is going on

Tim Stone

Hong Kong police have shot another kid

Frank

@BradC I'm not disputing that. But does calling someone a coward ever achieve the desired result?

Yuuki

> Trump reportedly promised China's president that he'd stay quiet on Hong Kong protests as long as trade talks progressed

The whole reason we're having trade talks is because of your stupid tariffs.

BradC

16:33

@Frank I'm not sure there is a "framing" of this important subject that the GOP would find palatable. I recognize the tone argument ("you're just being mean to me") can be effective, but I mostly view it as a dodge of the actual topic

(I mean if/when the GOP responds that way, not talking about your comment here)

Frank

@BradC Probably. It's likely a more broad ploy to their support base to show their inability to work for the good of the country.

Unionhawk

weird that 21 republicans aren't doing the thing it's almost like there aren't any good ones

idk

BradC

@Frank Yep, it goes hand in hand with the "everything is a legitimate political disagreement" tactic

"Well you know, alligators in moats might not be prohibitively expensive..."

Frank

I feel like demonizing the opposition doesn't have any room for shades of grey.

@Unionhawk So let's try to stay away from absolute statements, alright?

Tim Stone

As an aside I believe far more people should directly call the President a coward for not confronting China over its treatment of Hong Kong until he gets red and mad online and threatens to nuke them to show us how much of a strongman he is

Unionhawk

16:37

just throwing out ideas here idk

making the logical conclusion of 3 years of "man, it would be nice if they would do the good thing"

user image

maybe one day they will let us kick the football

BradC

@Unionhawk I'm with you--I frankly think there will be an entire generation with a (warranted) fundamental distrust of the GOP in all aspects. Might result in the actual downfall of the GOP

Unionhawk

god willing

BradC

@Unionhawk Yep. Same group still waiting for the "presidential pivot"

Tim Stone

Did…Did Putin tell Trump that Ukraine was out to get him, or what?

Honestly not sure what historical grievances Trump could possibly have with Ukraine

Yuuki

It's gotta burn for the Hong Kong protesters to have been throwing references to American freedom for the past couple of months only to see that the President of the United States was making a deal with the Chinese president to keep quiet on Hong Kong in return for trade talks.

ugh

> Florida man accidentally shoots, kills son-in-law who was trying to surprise him for his birthday

This happened a month ago in Ohio too, didn't it?

Tim Stone

16:46

Sep 9 at 15:45, by Tim Stone

> Mom accidentally shoots daughter after she surprises her at home

Yeah, lol

Sensing a theme here and it's not good!

BradC

@Yuuki Yep. Anyone that thinks that our role in the world as the model of freedom and democracy will somehow just go back to normal when Trump is gone is fooling themselves

Yuuki

user image

BradC

And frankly even if we have a few good terms with leaders upholding our best values, I don't think that fixes it. It might take generations; or (perhaps) never.

There will always be a question: What if they elect another Trump?

Yuuki

Yeah, to use an appropriated phrase properly: a few bad apples ruins the bushel.

Frank

Here's a cynical thought: even if Trump gets impeached, who wants to bet Pence pardons him?

BradC

16:50

@Frank its certainly possible, even likely

Unionhawk

see above hypothesis

Frank

Maybe time for double jeopardy?

Impeach 'em both.

BradC

@Frank Not impossible; Pence is deeper in the current scandal than he seems to have been in most up until now

Trump would still be exposed to NY State crimes, even with a federal pardon

SaintWacko

@Frank Frankly, I'd rather Trump be president than Pence. Pence might actually be competent, at least in advancing his agenda

And his agenda is an evil one

@Yuuki I've felt so bad for all the Hong Kong protesters holding up American flags as the symbol of freedom and democracy :(

We don't deserve that kind of faith anymore

Tim Stone

@Frank If you thought the pushback against impeaching Trump was bad imagine trying to make Pelosi President, lol

Very unfortunate that we don't have a vote of no confidence followed by a new election system tbh

Frank

17:05

@TimStone The electoral college might be a rung in this whole problem.

Tim Stone

The argument there would presumably be that someone has to run the country but gestures broadly I'm not so sure about that

Unionhawk

no more presidents 2020

puzzlepiece87

17:45

9th planet black hole 2020

Yuuki

18:05

@puzzlepiece87 screw mars, build a rocket ship to go to the black hole, i'll volunteer for the flight crew

puzzlepiece87

18:22

> If Planet Nine really is a black hole, then it would be about the size of an apple.

Yuuki

sign me up, i'll be the eve to the black hole apple

puzzlepiece87

lol

The easy part is blasting off earth, the hard part is hitting an apple from 18.25B miles away

"That's easy, I was always good at FPS games"

murgatroid99

@puzzlepiece87 I love the 1:1 scale depiction of the proposed black hole in the paper

Yuuki

@puzzlepiece87 if i don't make it, i'll die in the cold darkness of space, that's a win-win

puzzlepiece87

(5 * Pluto distance from sun) - (Earth distance from sun), according to Forbes

@Yuuki But who will be here to make your pop culture references?

Yuuki

18:27

@puzzlepiece87 if my pop culture research has taught me anything, i'll disappear into the black hole and then contact one of you guys using morse code on a wristwatch hand via gravitational wave-based time travel

MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRPH

see this is why i want to go to the black hole, i feel unappreciated /s

Tim Stone

18:52

The great unifier, a singularity

puzzlepiece87

hahahahahaha

Wipqozn

So Andrew Scheer made an announcement today about how he's going to fight gun control by keeping criminals in jail longer, and targeting gangs.

but that's not what I want to draw attention to

Canada Election: Andrew Scheer makes announces plan to combat gangs, gun violence

I want to draw attention to the fact that for the first 30 minutes of this press conference, it was just PC members standing around awkwardly in the background.

or maybe it's voters, I'm not sure. but like, why are they there so early.Did scheer get stuck in traffic or something? was this planned?

Tim Stone

Afghan town's first female mayor awaits her assassination

Urgh that's bleak :/

Wipqozn

19:08

@TimStone Great world we live in

Tim Stone

Love too have DHS full of people like this

Wipqozn

20:07

@puzzlepiece87 I've seen this posted around a bit, and from what I understand it's not so much a serious suggestion so much as "this is technically possible" kind of thing.

BradC

Senator Ron Johnson says he was blocked by President Trump from telling Ukraine foreign aid was coming

puzzlepiece87

@Wipqozn I agree, you're exactly right. Forbes is saying it's unlikely it is a black hole. I just wanted to joke about it as a new twist on Giant Meteor 2020.

Wipqozn

@puzzlepiece87 I fully support all jokes

Jokes 2020

puzzlepiece87

On the other hand, if the spaceship can hit an apple from 18.25B miles away, we know the launcher is Robin Hood.

Yuuki

> ~~Robin Hood~~ William Tell

Get your legendary British archers right, man.

Oh, it seems William Tell was Swiss?

Huh.

puzzlepiece87

20:26

@Yuuki You're saying my joke needed a little bit more taut?

Yuuki

I mean, hitting an apple is very clearly William Tell of "shooting an apple on top of his kid's head" fame.

BradC

20:40

@Yuuki Yep. Robin Hood split the arrow, William Tell hit the apple.

both good archers, of course

puzzlepiece87

@Yuuki You're exactly right, I just didn't see a cartoon movie about William Tell as a fox winning the heart of his foxy lady.

So I didn't know about him until now xD

The closest apple reference I've actually seen and am familiar with is Skyfall, which is a lot darker though probably appropriate dark if we're talking about flying into a black hole.

GnomeSlice

NASA soon testing first all-electric aircraft

Tim Stone

The CIA's top lawyer, a Trump appointee, made a criminal referral to DOJ about the whistleblower's allegations weeks before the whistleblower filed their complaint

To reword that, they thought the President had committed a crime

Candace Owens is at the White House saying Trump might be her favourite rapper right now for some reason

Tim Stone

21:10

Oh wait Jared's in charge of the impeachment team? lmao

Tim Stone

22:00

There's a QAnon conspiracy theorist who is good friends with the Australian Prime Minister, because of course

Tim Stone

22:11

We're sending Elaine Chao as part of the delegation to the enthronement of the new Japanese Emperor which seems like an interesting choice

1 hour later…

Stormblessed

23:25

Shit, Sanders had a heart attack

Tim Stone

CafePress got hacked, possibly including payment details given the verbiage

Memor-X

@BradC wont it be funny if Biden doesn't get chosen and then Warren gets in so Trump then goes to Jacob Wohl for some dirt, and given how dumb the latter is, ends up committing obvious more crimes

@TimStone more escalation. next step is that a child and a family member/guest is going to be killed

@Yuuki i was thinking "yay, a place to launch garbage people into when the sun is too good for them", but i forgot about this and we don't want Pro-Nazi Memes being sent via Time Travel Morse Code

@TimStone well to be fair the link is with the conspiracy theorist's wife being Morrison's staff

> The family friendship is largely driven by the closeness between BurnedSpy’s wife and Jenny Morrison.

like can be a family firmed and still dislike the spouse

but yeh, still annoying these nut jobs are that close to government outside of the US

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