It's going to be a game of what they're willing to concede

lol this guy

What

@Unionhawk what the fuck

Like

Yes?

what a weasel

But

"""current coverage"""

Like you're not lying, but

He's intentionally conflating coverage with medical service providers because he's an ass

Literally no one cares about their insurance company except as it exists as a vehicle for going to the providers they want

gottem

Yes, everyone with private coverage will lose their coverage. Medicare For All also provides healthcare for everyone without coverage.

What does duplicate mean

This is just words

say his seat is up in 2018 right

He's in wyoming

:thinking:

But idk

@quartata You think he'd be okay with employers not having to cover employees.

> Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting the sale of health insurance coverage for any additional benefits not covered by this Act

Less costs for businesses, right?

so, no, it doesn't outlaw employer health coverage.

@MBraedley right yeah it only outlaws some company selling people benefits they already have under the Act

which, under his bill idk what that could even be

since this proposal includes vision+

to one-up canada

@Yuuki That's probably a harder question to answer. Theoretically yes, but since companies offer health coverage as a benefit now to avoid paying you more, and get a tax write off for doing so, someone would likely have to do the math

@Unionhawk Yeah, I haven't looked into the coverage section, but I suspect it covers more than what most Canadian provinces cover

Right, yeah I'm sure there might be something

@TimStone I mean, just like how businesses pocket the difference from tax breaks instead of increasing wages, I'm sure they'll do the same when they don't have to pay for healthcare.

Lowering costs will never provide motivation to raise wages.

> (9) Oral health, audiology, and vision services.

The only thing that motivates businesses to pay their employees more is a competitor.

It's trickier because they have a hard time reducing wages, which might be the perception if a previously-offered benefit no longer exists

I'm not comprehensively covered for any of that (outside my work provided insurance)

@MBraedley Yeah like I said includes vision+ to one-up canada

Because that's how you negotiate a thing

I get some coverage on those, if the service is provided in a hospital (for instance, the eye procedure I had done last summer).

that's weird but ok lol

@TimStone I mean, at a certain point though, wouldn't paying people that small amount more accomplish the write off anyway? Or as in providing these benefits (where you don't have to per ACA mind you) specifically is a write off

The entirety of employer-paid health plans can be written off as a business deduction currently

Well yeah but that isn't like an 'incentive' in some cases as much as it is 'a thing they get'

Section 202(b) should probably be expanded to include 201(a)(9), which would bring it in line with most of Canada.

There'll be more bills, it's not about one bill it's about the movement

This bill will not pass

Sad to say

@Unionhawk Yeah but you as a worker get benefit from that arrangement because you don't have to pay out of pocket, which would be more expensive for you individually, so it's a benefit-add of your employment. So they'd likely pay you a little more to give the perception you're at least no worse off, and it's not immediately obvious if that'd be a substantial savings

pls

yeah lol our deductible is 3

1.5 on an individual plan

which I'll have to go to in 3 years

For regular visits and stuff my copay is only like $20, so $20 every 6 months versus $300, $400 per-month you have to pay minimum to have an individual plan, and then the plan fees on top

we pay 100% of prescriptions out of pocket until deductible

it's garbage

Ouch

Yeah tamiflu is $100 lol

My medication is like $4.50/30 days

The company pays $7k a year for my plan (which my son is on too)

The other thing about business deductions is that they can be carried so there's some gaming to be done if you really want to go Full Capitalism

This all to say basically that businesses probably at best don't have a dog in this fight :P

Except maybe the ones paying minimum wage that were forced into giving people coverage, but I suspect most of those just do the ol' < 30 hours bit

I mean, I believe PNHP has estimates that it would save small busineses a lot in particular yeah

"Yep you're not full time soooo"

I'm pretty sure companies < 50 employees still don't even have a requirement to offer coverage, and companies < 25 employees that do get a 50% tax credit on top of whatever else for offering it

"Oh no I have to give employees insurance because I own ten franchises whatever will I do?"

the worst part about those numbers is it implies you have 5 people per franchise

I was thinking more of the people who complained because they had more than that, thus had to offer coverage

Like they're capable of managing that many businesses but treating employees decently is too much

That impacts his midlife crisis car fund

Mueller seeks to question Trump about Flynn and Comey departures

ok why is it that consistently no matter what the "General News" section of Twitter when you're logged out is always a Fox News tweet

Honestly, I’ve been trying to understand deductibles for the longest time. Is it “you pay all expenses until you hit X and we’ll cover all future expenses for the year” or is it “you pay all expenses up to X and we cover expenses more than X”?

It depends on the policy, usually you pay out of pocket until X and then they pay the rest for the year, but I think it can be arranged differently

And not everything counts towards X

Well, I guess I better find out whether this CPAP is going to count towards X.

I think it does.

But I'm not sure.

Usually anything non-routine counts except because that's a device and not a procedure I'm not positive and you should check your policy to be safe >_>

Deductibles for health insurance still seem weird to me. We certainly have stuff they don't cover, but we don't really have deductibles. Those are mostly for stuff like car insurance

@TimStone It's also like the only solution for non-weight induced sleep apnea except for surgery.

@quartata if i had to guess, russian bots pushing propaganda

@MadScientist they are weird and stupid and maybe intentionally confusing to make it harder for people to access insurance

co-insurance is also confusing

just give me a straight copay so i can figure out if i can afford to go to the doctor or not

not like "oh first time you pay full price but then the next visit is free"

the real solution is that you never have to ask yourself if you can afford to go to the doctor

@MadScientist yep

but this is america, we can't make things easy for our citizens because taxes might go up

and people are ideologically opposed to making things easy for groups of citizens that do not include them

how high is the typical tax burden + healthcare in the US? It's pretty high here, but healthcare seems even more expensive in the US than here, even though taxes are certainly higher here

@GodEmperorDune Yeah, I've tried talking about this stuff with my parents and there's always this nebulous group of "lazy people".

@MadScientist our taxes are lower than i think all the european countries, but i'm pretty sure that taxes + healthcare is higher than your taxes + healthcare

the most recent michael moore film had a chart but i'm sure there was at least some cherrypicking

taxes + healthcare + retirement funds are around 40% for me

@MadScientist my taxes alone are close to 40%

@GodEmperorDune Wait how? D:

@TimStone no property tax or other boomer deductions

i think we paid 36% for 2016

Even still? That seems incredibly high

Ohh, state taxes

my wife and i have high incomes that disqualify us from most tax breaks

however we also have large student loan bills that eat up a lot of "disposable" income

also love to live in one of the most expensive rent areas in the country

I'm in a similar situation but my marginal rate was only like 28%, but that's federal-only. Think my state rate is half of what yours likely is

i thought your state was one of the lowest tax places, that's why all the banks are incorporated there

We have favourable business litigation laws, I don't know about corporate tax rates offhand

ah that could be it

And no sales tax, but 6.6% top income tax, which Florida obviously beats by not having any

@TimStone iirc texas doesn't have an income tax either

> According to several officials, the Senate Majority Leader [McConnell], once briefed on Moscow’s threat [to elections, etc.], said “he would consider any effort by the [Obama] White House to challenge the Russians publicly an act of partisan politics.”

I didn't count the 19% sales tax we have, which probably skews things a lot

Probably not for @GodEmperorDune, I think the sales tax is super high there too >_>

@TimStone nah ours is like 10%ish. it's not a VAT either

True, not 19%, but still high :P

lol what, another laptop refresh?

RIP ursula le guin

(also TIL that she was white)

Love to drain swamps