The Awkward Silence

Extroverted Main Man

06:10

0

Q: Does accusation helps a person change his values or a better ways is to tell a story with moral?

I have a friend say Dev. He always involves himself in flattery of rich people knowingly or unknowingly. Its clearly visible that he shows off in front of rich people or try to gain their friendship in comparison to normal people or people of his status (in terms of wealth). So suppose I directly...

relationships

Alex Robinson

08:43

i solved a futoshiki this morning (6x6) because i couldn't progress but remembered the puzzle maker likes to put rows of 123456 more often than you'd expect - so i filled that in and the entire rest of the grid just kinda solved itself

Tinkeringbell

@AlexRobinson Heh, that's cheating :P

Alex Robinson

perhaps, or am I seeing a little bit into the matrix :p

Tinkeringbell

09:13

Nah :P

Alex Robinson

damn, well atleast its a bit cooler here today - there was some rain yesterday evening and we have some light cloud cover now, how about everyone else?

Tinkeringbell

Should be cooler today, something around 21 degrees. But so far the sun is shining just as hard...

Luckily the nights here are clear too, so there's quite a bit of cooling down once the sun is gone, and I was able to sleep reasonably well

Alex Robinson

09:29

the cloud cover started yesterday for us as the sun started to go down so it was hot during the day and hot during the night :DD

Tinkeringbell

:(

CaldeiraG

Morning o/

Tinkeringbell

hey :)

CaldeiraG

weather been pretty meh, it was raining slightly yesterday when i was walking home

today it's about the same

cloudy, 23C max

Tinkeringbell

Sounds okay actually, a bit too hot perhaps.

Arthur Hv

11:09

Hello

Alex Robinson

Hello there

Tinkeringbell

11:23

Welcome back :)

Arthur Hv

:)

I feel a bit bad for not being consistent

With my engagement on stuff

Tinkeringbell

Don't be, it wasn't meant to make you feel bad

Arthur Hv

It's not your remark it's general introspection

I know I've left behind people on the listening platform for ex

Tinkeringbell

Ohh...

Arthur Hv

I'm swapping hobbies too fast and that's not good for building ties i think

Tinkeringbell

11:30

I dunno. I still wouldn't feel bad, it's the internet.... It's noncommittalness is part of what makes it the internet.

Arthur Hv

Yes it's also true

Tinkeringbell

I guess a good question to ask is why you feel you should stick with something you no longer fully enjoy, just for the sake of 'ties'.

Arthur Hv

I know some part of me feel like ok that's embracing what I am to accept I do leave some stuff behind but some part of me just feel sad for the efforts and hopes I had that never met a real ending

Lacking closure I suppose

Tinkeringbell

Could be, that's something only you know though.

Arthur Hv

How is it going for you anyway ? I'd have some news to share as well

Tinkeringbell

11:40

Things are going. Some good, some bad... I'll be getting the key to my apartment on the 23rd :)

I guess that's the biggest piece of 'news' since last time we talked.

Soo... what's your news? :D

Arthur Hv

Well I'm getting the credit for our apartment I think we discussed this before briefly I'm in the process of buying on plans for 2022

Tinkeringbell

Yeah! I think I remember you mentioning something. That's great! :D

Now the 'real' fun starts, picking out all the stuff (kitchen, bathroom, floors, walls, curtains...)

Arthur Hv

It's progressing anyway, and yea we have to pick stuff after, we already start to plan the kitchen... another thing pretty fun is I"m in the middle of developing a web poker platform for a variant I invented. We played it with colleagues who told me it was fun

It's a fun side project with ups and downs of development, like being enthusiastic but being hit hard by discovering new technologies are not so easy to use and the tons of stuff you have to implement for your project to be viable lol

Tinkeringbell

Heh, both sound like good ways to spend time. I recently started cross-stitching (I got a kit for my birthday, and my first reaction was 'wut, you know I never do this why would you')... but it turns out I like doing it, it's a good distraction that's easy to bring along, easier than a crochet project.

I ended up ordering more kits, which is probably money I shouldn't have spent this close to getting the keys...

Arthur Hv

11:55

We will have a lot extra when we will have the keys. Is your budget tight? Ours is like ok we prob have 10k extra when everything's done just in case

Tinkeringbell

It's not necessarily tight... It still feels wasteful though.

Arthur Hv

It's prob not I think

Tinkeringbell

Eh, I have enough unfinished hobby stuff lying around that it's probably... oh well.

Arthur Hv

I mean this sound like very reasonable amounts for a hobby

If your hobby was collecting cars then we could discuss on whether or not it's sane but

It's ok to spend for yourself reasonable amounts. My psychiatrist told me so

Tinkeringbell

'reasonable' is the keyword there ;)

And sadly... what is/isn't reasonable is going to depend on who you ask.

Arthur Hv

12:02

Of course yes

I'm inferring from what I imagine of the cost of a cross stitching kit vs what I imagine you earn very roughly

Tinkeringbell

In that case, yes, it would be 'reasonable' in that it doesn't push me into making debts.

Arthur Hv

Which is good news :D

Tinkeringbell

I'm counting more stuff though, like how money spent now can't be spent on non-essential but useful or pretty home stuff later, and all the things I still have lying around :)

Arthur Hv

If you compare two non-essential spending it's a priority problem with your desires essentially and we know how things can fluctuate in that area but there is like nothing unreasonable with spending some amounts for stuff you desire as long as your essential needs are covered

Tinkeringbell

I know.

I probably will regret this though :P

Arthur Hv

12:08

Haha

My problem was more to make any spending non-essential. I was born in a circle where I had to carry guilt for anything I could have that others didn't

Tinkeringbell

12:21

Eh, I think about that from time to time too... in a sense it's not all that fair, but it doesn't stop me from spending some money on non-essential stuff

I think my 'biggest sin' are bath bombs. My skin can stand very little soapy/perfumed stuff, but there's a very expensive brand that I can tolerate... so sometimes, I put 10 euros in a single bathtub XD

Alex Robinson

thats a lot of euros

Arthur Hv

It's still "sometimes". I've spent 60 euros in getting both of us food for dinner. Have very little regret even though like 15 euros of that is actual essential restauration and 45 is service and making our life easier and tasteful.

So essentially it's 45 euros down the drain for pleasure. Well as long as it's just sometimes

Journeyman Geek

12:36

@Tinkeringbell My mom's an avid sticher, and I'm inheriting most of her masterpieces...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek That's cool!

Journeyman Geek

Though I really want two. A slightly wierdly tinted one of my late dog I designed myself, and a westie she did for me about 20 years ago

Tinkeringbell

Those sound pretty :)

@ArthurHv Yeah, "as long as it's sometimes" is a justification I use for a lot of stuff XD

Arthur Hv

;)

Journeyman Geek

lol

Also my one 'guilty' pleasure is getting a cab back home .-.

Alex Robinson

12:45

how long would it take to walk back otherwise?

Journeyman Geek

@AlexRobinson 20 minute walk, hour and a half by public transport

vs getting home in 30 minutes

On the other hand, its a 10th the cost to take public transport

Arthur Hv

I often ask my bf for a drive to work, only to make a ~20 min difference on the whole thing

For the cab I'd compare to how much I sell my time to work and see if I'd save more per hour spent in public transport than in the cab. The cabs are expensive there but given my hourly I think if I earn an hour the cab is probably a good placement

Journeyman Geek

Oh I actually calculated my hourly late as a joke

Alex Robinson

oh jeeze... i have to walk like maybe 20 minutes total to go to the station

Journeyman Geek

In a bad month I do 13 night shifts, so its about 260 dollars, or ~2 hours of my hourly rate assuming a ~~sperical cow~~ 28 day month with 5 8 hour working days

Arthur Hv

12:54

So financially it's worth it, if you considered your time in the bus to be wasted and sold, your hourly would be better with the cab, right?

Journeyman Geek

@ArthurHv Maybe, but part of me is "you're going to be useless the rest of the day anyway, so might as well"

Alex Robinson

be useless on your own terms though

Arthur Hv

You could imagine the bus like some kind of side job where you do more hours that are less paid than your regular one. Then you have the option to take it or not. Personally, I'd use and abuse freedom not to do the "side job"

Provided, I am in a situation where financially I'm at ease ofc

Journeyman Geek

Well, I kinda got brought up to be ultra careful with money so there's that

Arthur Hv

Me too: I think the trait is common in computer science. My bf got brought up in a different family where people enjoy the last cent they have. He's more reasonable, but over the time I've learned to be more flexible with money

Journeyman Geek

13:05

@ArthurHv in this case, brought up asian

My dad had to support 3 sisters

I support no one ;D

Arthur Hv

I support my bf and some time to time his sisters

Buying my apartment vanished my very last reasons to be anxious about money though

Journeyman Geek

lol

I'm getting mine 2023...

supposed to be 2022, but... covid related delays

Arthur Hv

You're also buyng on plans ?

Journeyman Geek

I think I can cover the full cost right now so....

@ArthurHv Public housing here is often "we have this development we're building in N years"

so I applied for mine before the pandemic on a certain schedule

and it got delayed

Arthur Hv

Ok I see

Sarov

13:20

@Tinkeringbell I can see it. Like, I'm running a Pathfinder game to teach the system to my coworker. And it's pretty... not very enjoyable. Not actively bad, just... meh. But I can't just stop because I work with the guy.

Mithical

What's not enjoyable about the game? Bad roleplay?

Sarov

@Mithical That. And players arguing.

Well, more just lack of roleplay. PCs just rush in, fight stuff, rush to next fight.

@ArthurHv ?? What's it got to do with comp sci, y'think?

(Morning.)

Mithical

@Sarov Sounds like you, as GM, might need to push the roleplay a bit more. Have NPCs initiate conversation, etc.

Sarov

@Mithical Problem is, the module I'm running, there are hardly any vocal NPCs; mainly monsters. The one time I choose not to put in a GMPC. :|

Mithical

Don't have much experience with modules, but can't you homebrew some NPCs to insert?

Tinkeringbell

13:32

@Sarov That's.. probably a different kind of tie than I assumed Arthur was talking about, but yeah... I've learned that lesson the hard way too... Coworkers are coworkers, not friends.

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell I mean, I have a different coworker who is now a recurring player in my games, so...

@Mithical I suppose I could, but at this point I'm checked out of the game enough that I'm not sure it'd be worth the effort.

What I might do is just let the group know that we'll just do one more floor. Whether that's the next floor or redoing the current one after they wipe from Leeroy Jenkinsing the miniboss.

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov Another lesson waiting to be learned ;)

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell I mean, I've been including him in my games for over a year now, so... If he's a ticking timebomb, the fuse was set kinda long...

Tinkeringbell

Some fuses are that long, yes

Sarov

I think you might be just a tiny bit overpessimistic when it comes to coworkers. :P

Arthur Hv

13:36

@Sarov Long studies, perhaps something psychologically related like anxiety for their future idk, most people I see in compsi are savers not spenders

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov I dunno... Of all the co-workers I had, I think I only stayed friends with one... and even that one is ending so... XD

Sarov

@ArthurHv The scientist in me says "That's not statistically significant!". The biased human in me says "Wait, I am too, maybe there's something there..."

Alex Robinson

when me and some friends ran a long dnd campaign last year we eventually plotted and carried out murders on our own party - i think we killed off 2 but were planning to kill more until circumstances changed

Sarov

@AlexRobinson Aaand now my mind is screaming "Session 0! Same Page Tool!"

Mithical

I don't like PVP in games... I'll be running a game soon (actually drawing a map right now) and that is one rule I'm making.

Arthur Hv

13:40

@Sarov Perhaps my initial claim is too bold but yea it's more a feeling than anything else

Alex Robinson

we also literally lost two people because they stopped turning up

Arthur Hv

You could have convincing explanations for the phenomenon though

Sarov

@Mithical It has its place if everyone agrees and it's good for the story. Y'running online or in-person?

Mithical

In person... for my siblings.

Sarov

@ArthurHv There's also the fact that most of my coworkers seem to be broke...

@Mithical Auch, that's even worse if it turns out bad then. :P

Arthur Hv

13:41

Really ?

Sarov

Yeap. Granted, mostly (but not entirely) those with kids.

Tinkeringbell

Ah, but that's definitely the fault of kids :P

Arthur Hv

:D

Sarov

But yeah... normally I run homebrew setting stuff, but I figured for this I'd just run a module, since the purpose was to teach my coworker the game. And it's doing that well enough I suppose.

@Tinkeringbell I used to tell 'em: "If you wanted to have time or money, you shouldn't have had kids".

Tinkeringbell

Yeah.

Extroverted Main Man

14:07

0

Q: conversation point of views

I would like to know what point of view the following situation is in. Since I am not sure if I am even using the word point of view correctly I would very much like to demonstrate what I am trying to say. someone speaks in third person point of view, as in when they refer to themselves in third ...

socializing

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell It's tomorrow!

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov Yeah fair... I technically still have 20 minutes of work to finish though :P

Alex Robinson

@ExtrovertedMainMan this should be migrated to english language or something like that - maybe english learners if such a thing exists. not IPS at all

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov But yeah. One part of the definition that I often leave out is that Interpersonal Skills are behaviors you use to interact well with others :P

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell Define 'well'.

Tinkeringbell

14:09

@AlexRobinson There's a rule for migrations: "Don't migrate crap". OP is better off doing a spell-check, checking the help/on-topic on ELL, seeing if there isn't already a duplicate, and then asking themselves :)

Alex Robinson

makes sense!

Tinkeringbell

> Interpersonal Skills are goal-directed behaviors, including communication and relationship-building competencies, employed in interpersonal interaction episodes characterized by complex perceptual and cognitive processes, dynamic verbal and nonverbal interaction exchanges, diverse roles, motivations and expectancies.

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell Hence my wording "This seems a better fit for". 'Better', not 'good'! :P

@Tinkeringbell Right. So gaslighting fits!

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov Perhaps.

Though I admit I'm a bit lost what this has to do with our discussion from last night, about an intrapersonal.se :P

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell This!

Tinkeringbell

14:17

Ohhh.

Well my definition of mind control includes it being a bit more infallible than gaslighting attempts ;)

Sarov

I mean, that's just being really good at it.

Tinkeringbell

Being perfect at it... perhaps then XD perfect means a 100% success rate ;)

Sarov

I mean, even 'mind control' doesn't have to be 100% perfect. See the "I know you're still in there!" tvtrope.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, hence why I said my definition of mind control ;)

Sarov

Oh sure if you want to go with a wrong definition. :P

Arthur Hv

14:26

My girafe ears are bleeding ;D

Tinkeringbell

giraffe ears?

Arthur Hv

It's a nvc metaphor for selectively hearing things free from judgement

like "well" or "rgood" or "wrong"

Sarov

Jackals get a bad rap.

Tinkeringbell

@ArthurHv Ahh, okay. Wasn't familiar with it.

Arthur Hv

The NVC often depicts NVC as giraffe and judgemental speaking as jackal

Sarov

14:30

@Tinkeringbell They use a giraffe puppet for communicating without any jugement, just taking statements at face value and analyzing them. And a jackal for communicating like a --normal person-- like someone selfish, argumentative, judgemental, and ego-centric.

Arthur Hv

I never liked much the metaphor tho

Sarov

Whyzzat?

Arthur Hv

Like it's a very convenient basis for dividing people in two groups one of which you could burn

I mean we're all both

But the metaphor gets in a way to understand that.

Sarov

I mean, the 'hat' aspect helps.

A single person can wear different hats at different times.

Arthur Hv

Yes

Sarov

14:33

Or if you're TF2, just wear a bunch of hats stacked on each other.

Alex Robinson

@Sarov this sounds like an excellent idea

Arthur Hv

I remember making fun of tokyo hotel because one of the singer had stacked caps

Sarov

...it'd be funny if TF2 added a giraffe hat that makes it so you can't do damage.

Tinkeringbell

Okay, now what's TF2 :P

Alex Robinson

as a complete side note... 7 most recent questions on this site all ended up closed oof

Tinkeringbell

14:42

You two are producing a lot of semantic noise

Sarov

@Tinkeringbell Team Fortress 2. Also known as Hat Simulator.

Tinkeringbell

Is that one of those youngster games? Like Fortnight?

Alex Robinson

@Tinkeringbell i can't tell the tone, but team fortress 2, an old valve game in the source engine where the main currency is rare hats that are traded back and forth for other hats or coins

and by coins i mean irl currency

Tinkeringbell

Ahh, okay... So I can't even claim I'm too old for that XD

Sarov

Nope!

@AlexRobinson It be its nature.

Alex Robinson

14:50

this is true... i just can't help wonder if there's something to be done - even though most won't check the information center or anything

Sarov

Short of social reform... I doubt it.

Arthur Hv

@AlexRobinson Many of us been there asking themselves the same question but I am personally in high doubt of that.

Alex Robinson

i unfortunately also doubt it :/ would be nice though

Sarov

17:36

Bored.

Tinkeringbell

Same here... and fully enjoying it. It's been a looong while since I actually had time to be bored :D

Sarov

Boredom can't be enjoyable! It's boring!!

Tinkeringbell

You should have a few weeks of no boredom and way too much to stupid things to do... then you'll learn to appreciate boredom

Sarov

I doubt it.

When you get overwhelmed from too much stuff, just... stop doing stuff.

When you're underwhelmed from not enough stuff, sometimes you can't just do more stuff!

Tinkeringbell

@Sarov I mean, sure. But then you often end up doing only the 'responsible' stuff, and dropping the less responsible things... And then you start missing boredom!

There's no need to always 'do' stuff. Just nothing can be very relaxing.

(at least, for me)

Sarov

17:48

@Tinkeringbell Uuuuugh. :P

Tinkeringbell

I know there's people that think it's very unhealthy... but I think the same about their habits so unless doing nothing kills me, I don't think I'll believe them.

Sarov

I mean. Doing nothing will kill you, if you do enough of it!

Tinkeringbell

I guess death is the ultimate 'doing nothing' XD

Not that much then ;) Just enough doing nothing to be bored.

Sarov

Okay but I don't want to be bored!

Tinkeringbell

Then go do something.

Sarov

17:54

Can't, am at work.

Tinkeringbell

There's always work to do at work.

Sarov

Not much. Most of it is roadblocked by other people atm. :|

Tinkeringbell

Then go help move roadblocks! That's what agile work is for.

Sarov

Can't, I don't have authority. :P

Tinkeringbell

Then just go with the boredom

Don't fight it.

Sarov

17:59

Nnnnoooooooooo

Tinkeringbell

Okay, suit yourself

Sarov

Literally? That'd be expensive. I don''t own a suit.

Tinkeringbell

Then figuratively

Sarov

Hmm. Using what figures?

Tinkeringbell

Just take whatever is close by?

Sarov

18:04

Like air?

Tinkeringbell

Sure, why not.

Sarov

Okay, I took some air. Now what?

Tinkeringbell

I dunno, you were the bored one.

Sarov

D:

Tinkeringbell

The one that wasn't happy being bored.

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