The Awkward Silence

@Tinkeringbell Well that's the price for an apartment in the city nearby and I already think it's crazy expensive. I'm not used to such prices. I pay €650 for my 100m2 house with a garden (well, 650/2, I live with my partner)

JAD

given that we save 1k+ a month in our current situation

A J

@JAD I don't get this rent thing.

Is it meter square?

JAD

@AJ 850 euros for 65 square meters

A J

10:19 AM

That's monthly?

JAD

@avazula 300k for an apartment of what size?

yes

avazula

But maybe you have higher wages as well

@JAD I'd say 50-60?

JAD

o.o

avazula

but the city has 400,000+ inhabitants

JAD

Amersfoort is 155k

@avazula hmm, that's small D:

especially for 300k

avazula

10:22 AM

right? :o

that's why I left that city

JAD

Must be way downtown

I can imagine such prices for a place that's in the middle of the citycenter

avazula

@JAD No, and that's the worst part! It's for a place at the border of the city

JAD

:/

Ælis

If you want crazy location price, I pay ~700€ for 17m² in Paris ^^ (in on of the "cheapest" neighborhood)

JAD

D:

sounds even worse than Amsterdam

A J

10:34 AM

I can give you your dream place on rent within 200 Euros here. :P

avazula

@JAD hold on- is that your wage? o_o

JAD

@avazula I wish

Number of inhabitants

@AJ but the commute would be crazy

avazula

@JAD ooh dear you scared me haha

A J

@JAD Yep. ;P

JAD

I mean google maps doesn't even want to compute how long it would take using the train

Ælis

10:40 AM

@AJ I bet you can. Sometimes I google what house I could buy, any where in the world, with my current savings, and then I dream :p But I don't really want to live anywhere else than in France (Belgium might be acceptable), so that settles it ^^

avazula

I'd love to live either in Germany, TNL or in Budapest

Ælis

@avazula TNL? Is that the abbreviation for Netherland?

avazula

@Ælis I'm not sure it's the right one but yes, that's what I meant :p

JAD

Just NL

avazula

TIL. Thanks :)

Ælis

10:44 AM

@avazula According to wikipedia, TNL is the abbreviation of "Tramway de Nice et du Littoral" (among other things) :p

JAD

And some knockoff comedy show Tuesday Night Live

Ælis

@JAD Ah, I knew it was also a TV show! (or TV channel, I wasn't sure)

A J

11:16 AM

@JAD NL is an abbreviation for Nagaland here. :P

avazula

12:44 PM

@AJ how was the Holi btw?

A J

@avazula It was fun! I celebrated it at office and home on two different days.

avazula

yay :)

A J

:D

We played with colors, ate a lot, and danced on the beats of Nagara

Mithrandir

@avazula got to where I needed to be in the end

avazula

@Mithrandir pfew. Great then.

A J

12:56 PM

> Seminar "How to avoid frauds" is canceled. Tickets are non-refundable.

Rainbacon

@JAD Wow, I wish my rent was that cheap. I pay nearly 3k USD for what I think is approximately 25-30 square meters

A J

This is one of the reasons why I am happy where I am. Rent is too high.

:P

JAD

@Rainbacon damn. But then again, I don't live in downtown new york, or something like that

A J

@Rainbacon my friend stayed at a Marriott hotel in that amount for months.

Rainbacon

@JAD Yep, Manhattan, though not downtown. I'm just realizing after reading the chat from the last few hours that I should move to Europe

JAD

1:00 PM

eh, from what I gather from MoneySe and the workplace, wages are lower here, and taxes are higher. I guess that balances things out a bit

Rainbacon

Yeah, that might be it. I could move down south. My company pays the same in Texas as they do in New York, but Texas has lower taxes and a lower cost of living

avazula

@Rainbacon Come! You're welcome in approximately every European country thanks to your IPS friends! :D

We've got Belgian, Switzerland, the NL, Germany, the UK, Scotland, ... ok that's not almost every country but still :D

@Rainbacon If you don't mind me asking how much is your wage?

Your rent is higher than my monthly wage

Rainbacon

My take home wage for the month is 5k USD after taxes and retirement savings contributions

avazula

Darn

My net wage is somewhere betwenn €1,600 and 1,800 depending on the months

Rainbacon

My company is hiring if you wanted to move to the US :)

avazula

1:12 PM

@Rainbacon Haha... I don't think I'd be good enough for the US :)

I was supposed to go to San Fran but my partner and I gave up on the idea

Rainbacon

Well, if you can get in the door you are fine. You have to be really bad to get fired from my company. I know of two people ever who've been fired. One was a VP who was falsifying the staffing reports so that nobody would know he was making a team work 80 hour weeks, and the other was fresh out of college and so bad at programming that after she got fired she became an au pair

Also, we do have an office in San Fran if you still wanted to do that

avazula

@Rainbacon o_o both are incredible

Rainbacon

My company is pretty forgiving of mistakes as long as you are willing to learn from them

avazula

@Rainbacon that's a very American way of thinking actually. I had rounds of interviews with American recruiters back then and they would always correct me when I said I knew little about something or that I made mistakes. They'd present them as opportunities to grow

That's an interesting way of thinking that I'd like to adopt

Rainbacon

1:34 PM

It took me a bit of time to get used to when I started working, but I find that it makes me more productive because I don't tiptoe around trying to be perfect.

avazula

@Rainbacon I understand. I hope my future company won't be too harsh about that

humn

2:02 PM

Friends, i survived another night on the prowl. Sorry to intrude.

Tinkeringbell

What did you do now?

humn

Yes, i got beat up again, after shelling lettuce. One thing after another.

Tinkeringbell

shelling lettuce?

humn

Bucks. If i got them, there they go.

Tinkeringbell

Ahhh.

Do you have any hobbies that don't end up with you getting hurt?

avazula

2:04 PM

@humn you've been warned before about the way your conversational flow differs from others. Please refrain from this.

humn

@avazula, i thought this was the place to mix. Sorry.

I am more awkward than any can imagine.

I can barely make it to bed without harm.

Please let me break speak, @avazula. This isn't easy.

Tinkeringbell

@humn I'm guessing people are a bit concerned with the talks about being beat up?

Rainbacon

@Tinkeringbell I'm mostly completely confused by them

humn

It happens. Here and there. On the sidewalks and internet.

Everyone knows by now that i heal every wound. First mine, then yours.

And it hurts every time.

avazula

@humn if you want to continue talking in this chat please be less evasive because we can hardly understand anything when you talk in images like that. Right now it doesn't feel like you're trying to have a genuine conversation with us

humn

2:14 PM

@avazula , English is not my native language. Suomi/Finnish is. Thank you for paying attention.

I work through English like a labyrinth. Always worth a try.

And, yes, i go out on the streets and get roughoused. Ain't that how it goes?

My eyes are swollen shut, my fingers are scraped to the bone. Someone else is typing for me. Ain't it how?!

Talk about awkward.

Tinkeringbell

@humn Hmmm. Like I said, perhaps you should try and find a way of helping people without getting hurt in the process yourself.

Or another hobby :)

Rainbacon

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I hear that crocheting is nice...

humn

Thank you, @Tinkeringbell! I do have other hobbies. Arranging music, for instance, for bass clef instruments.

Tinkeringbell

2:34 PM

@Rainbacon I still have about an hour and a half of work to do, then I have to cook, clean, vacuum, fold laundry... No crocheting for me today

El'endia Starman

Are you...crotchety about it? :P

Tinkeringbell

Yes :P

Rainbacon

@Tinkeringbell That is sad

ElizB

I'm in class now lol.

Tinkeringbell

It's okay. I have a book that I'm going to read before bedtime, and my brother and I have planned a mini party because he passed his drivers exam today :)

TheTinyMan

2:57 PM

@Tinkeringbell So much for that post-party cleaning you did! ;-)

Tinkeringbell

@TheTinyMan Hahaha. Cleaning never stops :(

TheTinyMan

@Tinkeringbell That's fair, it is the worst!

Ælis

Hey @Rainbacon, I have noticed that your comments lately seem to look more and more like canned comment which we had issues with in the past. It might be better to try to use a more personal tone (I know some people didn't take it very well when I use too much of an impersonal tone in the past)

ElizB

@Ælis Ever since that "canned comment" discussion that came up, I've been using it as a guide but most definitely using more of a personal tone.

I usually do the "sandwich method" as well

Tinkeringbell

@ElizB Lie - explain the problem - another lie? :P

ElizB

3:02 PM

@Tinkeringbell no.... lol something nice-explain the issue-something nice :P

TheTinyMan

@Tinkeringbell Geez, cynical as ever! :-p

Rainbacon

@Ælis Really? I've been hand writing each one without looking at any specific comments. I guess I'm too consistent and robotic in how I write?

Tinkeringbell

@ElizB Yeah, lie-explain the issue-lie :P That's the cynical view of sandwich method: that people only come up with the something nice because sandwich feedback requires it, not because you actually find something nice ;)

12

Q: Is there any research showing whether sandwich feedbacks are more effective than other forms of feedback?

So, I've been taught to 'sandwich feedback'. For those that are unfamiliar with the term, it means you start and end with giving compliments, and put the feedback in between those compliments. For me, this feels very unnatural though and fake though. My gut feeling tells me it's weird to give c...

Ælis

@ElizB Oh, I never thought about saying something nice to the answer/question, I comment under? ^^'

ElizB

@Tinkeringbell ahh gotcha lol i see

@Ælis I look at it as praising progress, and I use it especially for new users who I imagine are hesitant and nervous about posting their first question

humn

3:06 PM

Thank you, whoever, for allowing me back. I am the most awkward person in the world. This isn't even my native language, as if i had one.

Ælis

@Rainbacon Hum, I believe it's also the way you don't seem to be talking to the OP when commenting. Like you are just posting a sign "this is a bad example, don't follow that" (I'm exaggerating and I know this isn't what you intend to do). But yeah, your last comment sounded quite cold to me :/

avazula

@humn the ban is a temporary action. Please, do remember what Mith told you in the Troll.

humn

Heard.

avazula

@humn More like "read", isn't it? ;)

ElizB

@Rainbacon if I wrote that, i might add something like "these are good ideas, but..." what you said

Ælis

3:09 PM

@ElizB Ah, well, I always say "Hi" and welcome them if there are new. So I believe I'm mostly nice even without the compliments ^^

ElizB

@Ælis yeah, you are nice :)

Rainbacon

Hmm, I'll try to sound more personal when I comment

Ælis

@ElizB Thanks :D

ElizB

@Rainbacon sounds good and please dont think that we're thinking you're totally cold or mean or anything, it's just that I noticed and some others have noticed that when you do validate someone they mostly respond better than "you just told me I'm totally wrong, i'm leaving!"

Ælis

@Rainbacon I believe (hope?) that adding a greeting might help. That's what I do anyway ^^

Tinkeringbell

3:13 PM

@Ælis Sometimes, other users take it those as fake too. 'Hi, welcome, you wrote a bad question/answer'

ElizB

@Tinkeringbell that's true too. That's why I try to point out what I like in their answer/question

Ælis

@Tinkeringbell Oh dear, it's so complicated to have the right tone on the internet ><'

ElizB

Text can be misread easily.

Ælis

Yep, sometimes, even smiley doesn't help ^^'

Tinkeringbell

@Ælis Just google 'feedback cultural differences' for example. The way I'd give feedback naturally to a peer over here would be totally rude if given the same way to someone from a different culture. It makes the internet challenging, and slights easily made/perceived.

Rainbacon

3:15 PM

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, that's how they read to me. I think there's a balance that needs to be reached because too much of the "hi, welcome" stuff sounds insincere

ElizB

@Rainbacon I do the welcome for new users, that seems to mostly work

Rainbacon

I usually say welcome with new users as well

avazula

@Rainbacon "Hi Rainbacon, welcome on IPS! This isn't perfectly fitting this site. Could you consider doing this instead? Also, feel free to check our tour and ask us if you have any question. [Thanks in advance, and] have a great time among us!"

Ælis

I'm mostly incapable to write a (first) comment without saying "Hey" first. To me, it's like to try to write a story without starting with "Once upon a time", it's difficult to do!

@Tinkeringbell "the employee learns to anticipate a reproach when praised and will doubt the honesty of the praise itself" -> That's such a sad and awful consequence :(

Tinkeringbell

@Ælis Yep.

avazula

3:25 PM

→ 8 messages moved to Trash

ElizB

change of topic- I found this video I thought was awesome. it's about a tea expert guessing the most expensive tea: Tea expert tests tea

i like the way that he drinks it and he explains why

Rainbacon

@ElizB I certainly don't think that any of you think I'm cold or mean. However, the sentiment that you've expressed is precisely the reason why I sometimes don't leave comments. I've spent up to an hour trying to write a single comment before, only to leave nothing because I don't know how to put words together without driving people away (sorry for hijacking your subject change). And now - back to tea

ElizB

@Rainbacon I understand and thank you for letting us know!! if you need any help let us know i'd be glad to help give thoughts on comments and such. I don't think the comment itself is horrible or bad, it does just feel impersonal but it does tell the truth- "back it up please"

Ælis

@Rainbacon When I'm too tired to leave a good comment, I don't do it anymore, I just flag and walk away. Or, when I think it's important, I just ask people in chat to comment (I explain what is wrong with the post and post a link to it)

Kaspar

@Ælis If you are too tired, you can't even walk away, LOL.

Ælis

3:40 PM

@Kaspar You right, I just "fall asleep await" :p

avazula

@Ælis and then you async?

Ælis

@avazula Pff, you nerd :p

Rainbacon

@avazula Speaking of async, I did a coding problem for a job interview in Go last night. I'd never used Go, but they specifically asked for the language. It was an interesting experience

TheTinyMan

@avazula I think we should just put her in a task and let it go

Kaspar

I used to pronounce Donald Tusk as Donald Task until a few days ago. =)

Ælis

3:50 PM

@TheTinyMan Oy! Don't trap me in an infinite loop! I'm watching you!

TheTinyMan

@Ælis I just want to see your output! :o

Or maybe Abort your sleep! :-P

Kaspar

I never make my computer sleep. I always shut it down. =)

Tinkeringbell

Sorry to interrupt, but...

El'endia Starman

SEGFAULT

avazula

@Tinkeringbell ?

Tinkeringbell

3:54 PM

@avazula you know... interrupt? :P

El'endia Starman

@avazula This kind of interrupt, I think.

TheTinyMan

@Tinkeringbell xD

Ælis

@TheTinyMan Oh, that sounds dirty! :p

TheTinyMan

@Ælis <.< >.> Who, me? :o

avazula

@Tinkeringbell haaa, a joke! Sorry, as soon as I saw "sorry" I thought something bad happened :p

Kaspar

3:58 PM

@avazula I thought a question on IPS needed urgent attention at first.

Ælis

@TheTinyMan I was going to make a joke, but then I realize it only works in French. If you are curious, you can google translate the French word "bite" (and understand why some many French students can't stop laughing when they first heard about "bit")

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Wow, and I thought that "bite" was sexually-charged in English! ;-)

avazula

DON'T LISTEN TO AELIS

Dang you're on fire these days dear :p

Kaspar

It is interesting that french windows are doors. =)

Ælis

@avazula Haha, yeah, it seems so :p

TheTinyMan

4:00 PM

@Kaspar A window IS a door if you're in enough of a hurry!

2

@avazula She sure is!

Ælis

@Kaspar What do you mean "french windows are doors"? Can't you open your windows to get fresh air aswell?

Kaspar

@Ælis A french window looks like this: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/French_window

Ælis

@Kaspar Oh :o We call that a door-window in French, much less "poetic" I guess :p

TheTinyMan

@Kaspar Surely the only way they kiss in France is also French kissing! :o

And if they fry anything they make French fries!

(I'm not sure if that's a commentary on America being bad at naming things or on America being racist really)

Ælis

@TheTinyMan Did you know that the "French fries" are a Belgian specialty?

TheTinyMan

4:11 PM

@Ælis I did not! I'm not at all surprised though! :-p

Kaspar

@Ælis They should be called Belgian fries instead!

Ælis

@Kaspar Exactly my thought when I heard that your name for "regular" fries was "French fries"!

Ælis

4:30 PM

"You eat like an actual c**t" -> Any idea what "c**t" is supposed to be? A pig or something?

TheTinyMan

@Ælis I would guess the missing letters to be "un"

and the censored word to be a vulgar term for female sexual organs

avazula

→ 4 messages moved to Trash

Ælis

@TheTinyMan Hum, that feels like a weird insult, but alright

avazula

@Ælis where did you find that? o_o

Ælis

@avazula Right here :p

avazula

4:35 PM

O_O

Ælis

(I was looking for lonely tag that wanted some friends to go with them :p )

@avazula Haha, your eyes got bigger!

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Well I gave the literal translation. It's kind of a generic, albeit gendered and pretty vile, insult in English.

@Ælis So [[lonely]]? xD

heck

I appear to not remember how to tag things

avazula

@TheTinyMan [ tag:this-is-a-tag ]

Ælis

@TheTinyMan No friend who didn't have other tag to go with them ^^

avazula

without the spaces

TheTinyMan

4:37 PM

Aww poor lonely friend

oh the word tag

avazula

yup ^^

yay!

okay, time to go home

oh wait

I'm already at home!

o/

Pseudohuman

\o

avazula

time to turn off my work computer then

and turn the PC on

o/

Ælis

@TheTinyMan The French equivalent of "cunt" is also an insult in French, but people use it to mean "stupid" and "not nice" at the same time

@avazula \o/

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Some of the insults that humanity has come up with make me sad :-p

Independent of language it seems

avazula

4:40 PM

@Ælis it took me some time to realize which word you were talking about ... you know few people know that this word originated from the female body right?

Ælis

@avazula I know but it's better known in feminism movement (which is the main reason why I know what this word means)

@TheTinyMan Yeah, that's why I try to not use this kind of insult (but I will have no problem calling you "asshole" ar "shitty" :p )

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Yeeep. Hey, did you just call me an "asshole?" ;-)

Ælis

@TheTinyMan Nop, just warning you that I might if you make me angry enough :p (but I will most probably use French bad name instead since I will be too mad to find any English insult :p )

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Haha, how do I make you angry enough to do that? :-D

Ælis

@TheTinyMan I'm not sure I want to answer that :p

Rainbacon

4:49 PM

@TheTinyMan You could probably do it with the use of the aforementioned word, but I wouldn't suggest that :)

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Awww :-P

Ælis

@TheTinyMan But if you want me to insult you in French, I can still do that for free :p

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Let's hear it then! ^.^

Ælis

"@TheTinyMan n'est qu'un sale petit être vil et méprisant!"

TheTinyMan

I really like the word choice in Google's translation there, so I hope that it's accurate. You're calling me a dirty little being, vile and contemptuous? xD

That was a Tiny joke, wasn't it! :o

Ælis

4:55 PM

@TheTinyMan It was indeed :D

Rainbacon

@TheTinyMan Lucky you that google gave you a translation you could read. I asked it to translate from French to English and got Spanish instead

Ælis

@Rainbacon Ahah XD

But yeah, TheTinyMan translation is pretty accurate ^^

TheTinyMan

@Ælis So is that "dirty" like "covered in dirt" or "dirty" as in, uh, "improper?" :o Because I am always proper!

Ælis

@TheTinyMan Both, I guess? "Sale" means dirty like in "covered in dirt" but, when used as an insult, it becomes more something like "not in accordance with accepted rules or standards, especially of morality or honesty" (from the google definition of "improper")

Like in "sale traitre!" ("dirty traitor!") who absolutely does not mean that the traitor is "covered in durt" ^^

The "sale"/"dirty" is here to emphasize how bad the insult is (like I do not only call you a "traitor", I call you a "dirty traitor" which is much more worse)

Alright, time to go home, see you later people!

TheTinyMan

@Ælis Oh, haha. "Dirty" in an insulting or teasing context in English usually means "perverted," I was trying to avoid being that explicit with my question. ;-)

@Ælis Have a good evening!

Kaspar

5:08 PM

Ooh I missed all the insults, LOL.

TheTinyMan

@Kaspar Baka!

Rainbacon

Bye \o

humn

5:37 PM

@Rainbacon, glad to have met you. Visit again some time.

And the beat goes on.

Rainbacon

Nah, I'm not going anywhere. I was saying bye to @Ælis

avazula

@Ælis true... Feminism widens up minds!

humn

@Rainbacon, you sound like me. We can do bettter.

TheTinyMan

@avazula Is it anti-feminist to make a ... dirty ... joke about that phrasing?

avazula

@TheTinyMan Anti feminism is (to me) about systemic discriminations and jokes towards the same categories of people. If you make fun of people from other genders too, I have no issues with that :p

TheTinyMan

5:44 PM

It wasn't going to be making fun of a particular gender, just a joke that occurred in the context of a discussion about feminism.

Except I don't actually have a joke ready because I am lazy and meta. :-p

avazula

@TheTinyMan hahaha

Personally I don't care. Make fun of whatever you want :) as long as it's respectful (otherwise I'll ban you!)

Kaspar

The longest ban I have seen on SE is 10 years.

TheTinyMan

@avazula Scary! :-P

Rainbacon

@Kaspar There have been longer

Kaspar

@Rainbacon Are you related to the user Rainb? I saw a chat user called Rainb the other day.

Rainbacon

5:55 PM

Nope

Kaspar

Hmm, then it must be an interesting coincidence...

avazula

My cat decided to take a nap. On my back. Mmh...

How do I move now?

El'endia Starman

This is your grave now.

user15026

You don't, you're stuck :P

ElizB

now you can be like a hunchback and hope you don't disturb the creature with claws

TheTinyMan

5:58 PM

@avazula We will remember you fondly!

Kaspar

@avazula You just move with the same velocity as the cat, so that the relative velocity between you and the cat is zero. =)

ElizB

hehehe i love all the responses here

Kaspar

Relative velocity was a difficult topic for me in school. We had to draw all those velocity diagrams to solve the problems.

avazula

You made my partner laughed a lot. It was his first time in TAS haha

Kaspar

Have you guys ever seen two people who look exactly the same and are not twins?

I once went up to a person I thought was my friend, and it turned out he was another person.

They not only looked the same, they sounded exactly the same too. =)

TheTinyMan

6:06 PM

@Kaspar Several times actually

It's always so weird!

Rainbacon

@Kaspar My high school English teacher has a son who looks and acts just like me. Enough so that she would confuse us from time to time

TheTinyMan

@Rainbacon That sounds awkward!

Rainbacon

Just a little bit. He and I had some fun with it though

TheTinyMan

@Rainbacon Haha, do tell!

Rainbacon

Well, my mother was a secretary at the school. One time she called me to her office on the intercom while I happened to be talking with my body double. So I had him go with me to the office and I sent him in to ask what she wanted. Took her a moment to realize that it wasn't her son that had come in

TheTinyMan

6:11 PM

@Rainbacon Hah, that's great!

TheTinyMan

7:10 PM

Everybody look sharp, the authorities are here! :o squares shoulders, straightens back

Rainbacon

@TheTinyMan Isn't it uncomfortable to have 4 shoulders though?

TheTinyMan

@Rainbacon Ehh, when I get tired of it, I'll root them like they were an Android phone.

Rainbacon

7:41 PM

I really hate css

TheTinyMan

@Rainbacon Me too!

What's it doing now?

Mithrandir

cascading, probably

Rainbacon

I have a page where a user can compare the features of two different products. There is a section with dropdowns where they can select the products. I have the selection components in a flex box and with a set left/right margin and a max width, and I just realized why it is changing the margins willy-nilly. @TheTinyMan has anyone ever told you that you make an excellent rubber duck?

TheTinyMan

@Rainbacon I have in fact been told that before, haha. I'm glad to have helped! :-D

Mithrandir

:( I was hoping for a "quack"

Rainbacon

7:45 PM

No I have to figure out how to fix it, but at least I know why it's happening

El'endia Starman

I kid you not, I have a Code Review rubber duck on one of my work monitors. A couple days ago, I asked a coworker for a second set of eyes on a problem I had and in the process of explaining it to him, I figured it out. He was like "You brought a duck!" and I was like "I knowwww... T_T". :P

TheTinyMan

@El'endiaStarman hahaha, nice. I have a couple of ducks in my box-of-stuff-from-my-office-desk. (My last day here is tomorrow and I've already got most of my stuff out of the office :-P ) I so rarely manage to use them properly though

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