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02:02
0
Q: How can i become network person?

Gyung-Hae MinHello this is my first question here and topic tells a lot. I'm not a network person, even with internet, I'm not preferred to communicate but just eye shopping for getting what I want. But I realized somewhat I've been stuck a lot, with difficult situation, sometimes I solved, but other I faile...

 
3 hours later…
05:13
I'm not sure about this question... Seems like a translation issue. I guess I really feel for the OP, seems like they're struggling with the good ole "I'm great with code, but bad with people" problem. Is there any heroic edit we can perform to save this one?
@apaul34208 difficult one. If e.g. it was edited to ask 'how can I ask for help with programming problems', it will still need examples I think of specific situations where OP wanted to ask for help but didn't/ where OP did ask for help but didn't get it/enough?
And then we would be narrowing it down a lot. I think that's not what OP wanted. They want advice on how to build their network.
Also... Although tangentially related... I've heard that people learning english as a second language have trouble with contractions for example "don't" vs "do not" is this accurate?
Sometimes. When I was taught, we had to always write do not. But that had something to do with writing formal letters I believe.
It does mean that after school, I've had to learn myself how to abbreviate such things.
@Tinkeringbell I don't think they're asking about programming problems. I suspect they're asking how to network socially. I'm admittedly not sure though.
@apaul34208 That's why I was hesitant to hero-edit. "How can I build a network" is really broad, so it won't help much.
05:22
@Tinkeringbell I have been trying to teach myself to avoid contractions when speaking with people who seem to struggle is that helpful or unnecessary/condescending?
If they are struggling because they are just learning English, this might be a good idea. I think that's how I learned as well. But it really depends on the person, I've known people that were just learning Dutch and that didn't want me to simplify words.
Although they could not really understand me when I was talking regularly.
I really wish we had better language education here... I'm very envious of people who grew up, well pretty much anywhere else.
Hahaha, but it's nearly the same here. I've seen people make mistakes that makes me doubt if they had any education at all...Even my grandmother, with only a few years education, when it comes to writing, writes better than those people.
What languages are they teaching over there? I've had Dutch, German, French and English
And I could have done Ancient Greek and Latin in high school (but I was lazy)
Most schools here offer French or Spanish.
If you're really lucky you might find German...
That sounds like it could use some improvements indeed.
05:33
Like nearly everyone I've spoken to from Europe speaks three or more languages. It's impressive.
Well, it's not like half the world speaks Dutch. So we sort of have to if we ever want to communicate with them.
People speak english because we've been pretty awful about forcing them to though... Sorry I'm a political junkie, it's a weakness.
I think the downside here is that everybody has 3 years in high school where they have to do Dutch, English, French and German. I didn't have much trouble with it, languages are easy for me to learn. But I know a lot of people that are having trouble with languages, and like the exact subjects more (physics, chemistry, maths). For them, our educational system sucks.
Still better than it is here.
@apaul34208 I never noticed ;) When was that?
05:38
Where I grew up, the drop out rate was nearly 60%
Near 20 years ago.
@apaul34208 What?!? Here, you can't even drop out before 18, or you must have some serious troubles..
Here you can "test out" with an 8th grade education.
Ohh... 20 years ago :-P I'm not that old, I don't know how drop-out rates were when I was 6 ;)
Damn... Why you gotta be like that =P
Ask my parents, they weren't quicker :-P
05:41
?
Sorry I missed that one?
If they had been quicker in getting a baby, I would have been older :)
Ah
Just gotta make a guy feel old, I see how it is ;)
@apaul34208 I'm not doing it on purpose. You're as old as you feel yourself to be :-P
And I feel old af lol
Anyway... I can't help but think that with this whole "make America great again" trip we've been on lately that we could stand to learn a lot from you all.
Depends on what your definition of 'great' is ;)
05:47
Europe has pretty good education, and healthcare, and, immigration policy, and... Well most things...
Yeah, but in America you can get life and have to serve life.
Here, you're out in six years or so... :(
That can go either way.
We lock up a larger percentage of our population than anywhere else.
(that was exaggerated, but there have been court cases recently because a convicted killer wanted to get out, and was pushing people to get 'verlof' (leave out of prison, under guard), because that was necessary for his re-integration into society)
@apaul34208 I sometimes feel that's because well, if you do something wrong in America, you can be sure you get punished for it. People get away with so much here (in my opinion).
We don't re- integrate here it's become a big problem.
Being a re-integrated criminal I have some perspective here.
@apaul34208 I'm not saying re-integrating is bad, but I think we're overdoing it a little. I'm finding our disciplinary system to soft.
05:53
In America we don't generally restore rights after people have served their time. There are still jobs I can't get and places I can't live because I have a record.
@apaul34208 That would be the same here. If you're ever convicted for fraud for example, you can never get the necessary paperwork to work at a bank.
And there will also be places you can't live, it's somewhat similar to a restraining order. If your victims were living in Amsterdam and traumatized by you, you're not allowed in Amsterdam.
Just another point of view, one I picked up because I caught my first charge at a young age... When you treat people like criminals they'll tend to act like criminals for lack of better options. You end up pushing people into the black market economy, because they can't find work anywhere else.
I'm all for not doing that.
Here background checks have become a standard when applying for any job or home.
I think when you're buying a home here, the only background check they do is a financial one. For jobs, yes there are a lot of them that require background checks. But a conviction for fraud means you can still get the paperwork for a job working with children.
So that's a bit too much for me (checking at every corner)
06:01
Here any criminal conviction can make it hard to work or even rent.
@apaul34208 That's bad. I'm all for 'serve your time, and then back to normal'
But the serve your time part is in my opinion better in America, since life = life. And not 18 years or so.
I understand your point though, some people really shouldn't be back out in society, but that's a really small portion of the people who get caught up.
American prison is also a very different thing...
Here prison is very often about punishment. As I understand the focus in most euro countries is rehabilitation.
Yeah, I've seen some documentaries on Discovery Channel I believe. I think ours are rent-free hotel suites in comparison.
Jup. If you ever want to read a book on how that came to be, read Foucault's Discipline and Punish
It explains the rationale behind that.
Here one of the first things you receive as an inmate is a rape prevention pamplet... Kinda says an awful lot.
@apaul34208 That's f... up
06:09
Yuuuup
Don't make friends, don't accept favors from anyone. That sort of thing. Kinda seems like as a "developed country" we're still dragging our knuckles.
Yeah, that sounds bad. I think we should switch. If people get life, we lock them up lifelong, but here (better prisons). If we know that they are going to get out too soon, we sent them to you, at least they get properly punished :-P
You have no idea how much losing your freedom affects you. Simply being under lock and key puts your whole life on hold. Even when it's just a few days you get out to find your job, home, and family gone.
Granted I deserved that, and I didn't have a legit job, but it still turns your whole world upside-down.
I can't imagine, that's true. Maybe that's why it feels to me like just locking someone up in a room with a bed, tv and food seems like it's too little to me...
06:24
I was in a cell with 8 other men. "Yard time" getting to be outside, being able to breathe fresh air and see the sky came but once a week.
0
Q: I do art. When people say "draw me", do I include their physical appearance flaws?

FlurpySo I draw little caricature-doodles for fun and am decently good at it. Sometimes people ask me (very casually, not for pay or anything) to draw them. What if this person is overweight or has an obvious flaw like a big nose or acne? Should I draw that in or try to make them look attractive? Now...

There's no TV in jail here, no smokes, and the coffee is bartered for.
Okay, it's just getting worse and worse
That's what I'm trying to say. It's different here.
(It's also different here ;) )
06:29
Have you ever shat with an audience? It's not pleasant. People shouldn't do these things to other people.
So no, I can't really imagine how bad American prisons are (although your info has helped a lot).
Change of subject: That art-question.. I'm thinking opinion-based?
@Tinkeringbell Most appliances inmates get here, they have to pay for AFAIK
Focusing on rehab helps people rejoin society. It's ultimately a good thing, trust me
I only know one guy here that went to prison. And he's talking about it like he would love to go back at anytime... Since it was so much service for so little effort/money.
And then I know about some people that cleverly avoided being locked up, although they were guilty.
I tried to be that guy, it didn't work out...
06:33
Locking people up shouldn't be the goal
Although I didn't serve nearly as much time as I could/should have.
@JarkoDubbeldam Very true.
I'm not sure what exactly should be the goal tbh. Justice is hard to define
yesterday there was a story on the news about an accident in germany
some polish truck driver decided to turn around on the highway to avoid traffic
ended up in a frontal collision with two other cars, killing 3
Which is just dumb, such a waste
I'll admit that I've known people who should never be released, but most people get caught on bullshit. They do a few days, get afraid and straighten their stuff out.
I've seen that one as well (only the head-line and summary though)
Point of it is, while it may feel good to demand the guy be punished, just out of revenge, nobody gains anything from that
@Tinkeringbell I don't think it is POB. This is a pretty clear interaction between two people with the question, how do I handle this?
06:40
@JarkoDubbeldam that's a great point.
although, now that I reread the question
@Tinkeringbell see my comment on the question.
Good one. 1 upvote and close -vote left.
o.o this early in the morning?
youve been busy
Hahaha. I thought we close-voted and not waited half the day for an edit that might never arrive?
not what I meant
I thought you only had one of your close-votes left of your daily quota
06:45
Hahaha no. I left one close vote and an upvote on your comment on that question ;)
Why vtc? It's a bit broad but still seems answerable.
It's opinion based, in my opinion :D

Whether or not to do such a thing is opinion based. How to approach the subject with a customer is an IPS
Aren't all of our questions somewhat opinion based?
Yes.... but I've seen to do or not to do been closed before as opinion based.... Let me see if I can find it.
This may be an odd opinion, but... It's not what you do, but rather how you do it.
07:00
I think how much caricatures you should use depends on what the customer wants, so ask them, but do so tactfully. Asking them whether they mind you pointing out your big nose is... counterproductive.
True... and talking about how to do it...

I want to leave a comment on this answer https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/4518/1599. But I'm not sure how to phrase it.
This is what I've got so far:
@user5919 We're not here to tell you what you want to hear. We're here to give answers to your question, and @Mari-LouA's is a good example of what we call a [frame challenge answer] rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6842/…).
I get the feeling that you're trolling us here, with the rude language in the question, your evasive comments, and your jumping on every answer that doesn't meet your expectations.... In other words, you don't give the first impression that you really want help.
But I think that's too harsh
lol
oh yea, that was a thing
sec brb
"you can't always get what you y
Yeah, but I don't want to leave it at that. I want to help @MariLouA a little, I think the comments there are too harsh on her and her answer.
"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need"
07:09
Yeah, sorry, had a quick standup to go to
in the middle of my sentence
Nice one, our standups generally last way longer. How big is the team?
I think calling him a troll is a bit too hostile. Rather, ask them what they're interested in, answers they like to hear, or our genuine help?
We're with 10 atm
Pff, team of 6 here and the standups always last at leat 10 minutes
I've taken out the troll part, now I'm going to let it roam free and see how it's doing.
I'm going to get of the train now, see you later!
Well, we are only doing this for a few weeks now, so we're still looking for stuff to mention.
07:49
0
Q: Addressing conflict in interaction with old grandmother

guest_usertl;dr: My hot tempered grandmother has gotten even more short fused and impredictable with age, which has lead to conflict with my mother (who lives with her) and me (who live abroad but call weekly). How can I address the conflict without harming the relationship? I love my grandmother. She h...

 
2 hours later…
09:25
1
Q: How to get entitled clients to pay their bills and still be happy?

EscherI'm working in the enterprise SaaS equivalent of gym memberships. The client knows they should use it because it's good for them (earns them $$$), and once they get into the swing of it, they enjoy it. But, despite my best efforts at UX, the subject matter is inherently dry for creatives, and if ...

09:46
@ExtrovertedMainMan I'm seeing too much name-calling here lately....
 
5 hours later…
14:31
1
Q: Please don't edit obvious spam posts just to make it suitable to the site

A JSpam posts usually occur on SE sites and main site is not an exception. Such posts should be flagged as spam and they do get flagged. However, what I have been noticing is that sometimes, they get edited and stick for long times on the site. This has happened in the early days of public beta, an...

14:59
@Tinkeringbell hey
@Tycho'sNose Hello :) I was writing a comment to answer your questions on meta :)
Good questions btw.
@Tinkeringbell I just feel really confused about this.
I was too, if that offers any solace :) That's partially why I felt I should make a meta. That way, people could tell me if my views were blatantly wrong :-)
I had a hard time deciding about the second one. I had voted to close it at first then felt reluctant because of what happened with the first one.
Thanks for answering. These are some good suggestions.
Yes, that's a little understandable.

I've got a different viewpoint I guess: I started wondering how this particular person could fuel a fear of acid attacks. And that is what made me think that this was about more than just a street vendor. Remember, there is already a question here about dismissing street vendors (I wrote it myself).
15:11
yes, and this could have been closed as a duplicate
And I've written a question about dealing with that developmentally disabled person as well.

You can see revision histories, can you? Look at that question, and see what happened there. I made my question offensive by mistake, but was quick to ask for a better wording and edited that in.

Then, there came lots and lots of comments asking to clarify why this man was so dangerous (or why I believed he was). And I think I had better reasons than 'gut feeling' ;)
we should all have proposed your question and left it at that
We could have done that. I actually left links to both questions I just mentioned in a comment. (that was later removed, probably because it read like an answer).
I am not sure I can.
Find a question that was edited. Can you click on the message saying it was edited? That should lead you to a revision history
15:15
oh
Sound like you found one :)
yup
thanks :)
You're welcome :)
See what I mean by "OP can be offensive out of ignorance, but they will have to clean up themselves?"
Yeah I can see what you mean. And if the OP won't clean up their question by themselves?
Leave it closed. We can delete it then after a few days.
And if they ask on meta why it was deleted, we answer that it wasn't nice
Let me search :-)
I don't know if there have been questions regarding cleaning up offensive language on meta...
Doesn't really answer the question if 'we' should edit or the OP should
no it doesn't
It does however make it clear that in the newsvendor question the language was wrong :-)
it does, wish I had this question in mind when deciding what to do
That's okay :) You can't know everything ;)
134
A: Are expletives (cursing, swear words or vulgar language) allowed on SE sites?

Jeff AtwoodNo. Expletives are not acceptable behavior on any Stack Exchange site, even on Meta. There are a very small handful of exceptions (such as if you were talking about the word itself on a language site), but in general you should not use expletives anywhere, under any circumstances. If you can't e...

doesnt really state what to do about editing though..
I'll be switching trains, brb.
15:32
k
15:46
Apparently, we do have to edit offensive language:
https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/78018/369802
@Tycho'sNose (tagging you because I forgot)
ALthough it is apparently different for answers: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/287252/…
16:05
@Tinkeringbell welcome back
Yeah, you too :P
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/2930/1599 Can you take a look at this? I'm having a deja-vu...
I'm remembering an answer very similar to that one?
oh, I remember this one. I think I answered it.
Yeah, but I thought this was already answered exactly like that before (althoug I can't see any deleted answers matching it).
are you talking about a similar question?
No, I thought this question :-) Well, must be me ;)
16:15
I do have deja-vu moments from time to time, too
so for the second question about the vendor, what would be best, close or flag?
NVZ
NVZ
@apaul34208 Well then, haaaave you met Indians? We speak at least a handful of sister languages, plus English.
@Tycho'sNose I'd still say flag for rudeness, and close-vote. I'm thinking off topic with a link to the be-nice policy and a warning not to rant.
And leave the language for a mod to deal with.
But I see @Catija is here, maybe she can enlighten us on the topic of editing offensive language?
What?
I didn't do it.
2
@Tycho'sNose and me were wondering what we should do with offensive language: Edit it out, or leave it (like we leave links in spam, to make it more recognizable) and flag/ close-vote the post.
@Tinkeringbell alright, sounds like a better strategy
16:21
It was inspired by that newsvendor question and the rude language there.
... weelll... I removed the rude language from the question... so...?
We edit? Or we flag for you to edit? :p
You edit and if they get in an edit war with you, you flag.
Okay :-) Have you noted that as well @Tycho'sNose? :P
Note that what someone considers "offensive" may be subjective so if it's on the line, you should feel free to flag with a custom flag and say something like "Hey, this is sort of not nice, should it be edited"... or however you want to word it.
If someone is asking a question about offensive language, we can make an exception for that but the words should not be in the title. The last thing we need is to have a bad word hit the HNQ.
NVZ
NVZ
16:24
this is a study that shows what inmates might go through.
@Catija Yeah, we encountered that meta on our search :)
yup
thanks
not many questions today
Nope, not many questions over the weekend either
Let's see if we can come up with some good ones :-P
And I assume it's fine to ask on others' behalf, right?
Meaning - my friend/spouse/parent has this problem, what should they do?
16:34
What can I advise them to do and how to do so?
Seems like a good question for meta. My first instinct - we'd rather they asked the question themselves because they will be better able to give us the details we need. Often times, if you're asking for someone else, once users start asking questions to fill in the gaps, you don't have the answers for them because it's not really your question... then you either start making stuff up or say "either"... which risks making the question too broad...
If you can ask the question for them and they are willing to answer those questions so that you can answer them here, that's better...
16:50
0
Q: How to divulge good exam results without coming across as bragging?

sudowoodoI’m a graduate working in another industry than the one I studied for my BA, so I’m undertaking lots of external training relevant to my job. I've been studying quite hard and have been doing really well in the exams. Sometimes a co-worker will ask how I’ve performed in the exam and usually I try...

17:00
@Catija yeah friends mostly
alright
17:24
hmm
A J
A J
It seems that post is removed, but my flag is still pending. @Catija
0
Q: How do I get a person selling newspapers at a subway station to stop approaching me?

user5919Re-writing question. Thank you to all you gave thorough, detailed answers. This helped alleviate lot of fears. (Still working on assertive/creating boundaries skills) Updated Question: I take subway each day. Newspaper vendor is friendly with everyone. People give hi-5, fist-bump, etc I don'...

@AJ at lunch. Will check in a bit.
Mobile sucks for mod tools.
A J
A J
Ok.
17:57
This seems like someone else re-writing the question
why do I think it's someone trolling
Is it vandalising a question?
did you read it?
I just can't take it seriously
Jup, I've read it. I think I will rollback the edit, and leave comment for OP explaining that they should either edit their question, or leave it as is so that the community can see why it's on hold?
well supposedly the edited the question lol
this is so weird
> @user5919, please don't vandalize your own question. Leave it as is, or improve the question by adding the details we asked for. But please, no 'under construction' or 'I'm updating' messages. Don't make edits that invalidate the answers you've already gotten.
I've rolled it back
18:09
yeah
I'm going to take a shower. Can you babysit that question for a while?
18:23
@AJ Fixed?
18:54
two people have voted to reopen the question already
Well, we can only wait...
If it's opened again, I can't vtc again. So then, I've done my best efforts and I will rest in the opinion of the multitudes
NVZ
NVZ
19:09
@Tinkeringbell who vandalized what?
@NVZ Oh, that notorious question we've been talking about for 2 days now? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/4504/…
aw you changed your pic
@Tycho'sNose Yeah, my brother snapped a new one this weekend while we were having fun. I liked it ;)
Thanks for noticing :)
NVZ
NVZ
@Tinkeringbell My mind was on ELU: english.meta.stackexchange.com/q/10799/50044 Hence, I'm not fully here.
@Tinkeringbell it's cute
@Tinkeringbell do you think the art question should be reopened?
19:18
I think I can answer that one, as it is now.

It's all in 'how' you ask :)
But feel free to vote on your own, I'm not here to put my opinion on everybody
I was thinking the same
NVZ
NVZ
@Tinkeringbell I just checked the timeline. I did in fact vote to "leave open" in the close vote review queue earlier, and the same me voted to "leave closed" in the reopen queue. Strange. I think I'm two different persons when handling two review queues. interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/close/3054 and interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/reopen/3110
@NVZ Ah well, I think there were a lot of comments/discussion between the 'leave open' and the 'leave closed'. It's okay to change your mind :)
I think this got a bit overwhelming, close, open, close, open
It's like one of those automatic doors, that has a cobweb in front of their sensor ;)
19:25
I just think we need some new questions :)
@Tycho'sNose I know... but the only thing I can come up with right now is "how can I dumb down my mode of conversation, so people don't get the impression that I think I'm better than them"
And I don't have specific examples yet... just a comment from my mom that I'm acting like other people are too dumb to have conversation with...
oh
can't you not think of any at all?
can*
Not really. She let that one fly sunday morning, after I told her I found the neighbourhood barbecue boring...
why was that so?
Apparently I did something wrong, but I can't remember and she apparently can't put it to words...
19:36
like said something to someone?
No, more a matter of attitude and speech patterns I believe
But I'm at a loss... I can remember telling every neighbour one by one that yes, I'm still working as a ... at ... and yes, I'm still having those long days due to my commute
I had a talk with one neighbour about cutting carbohydrates from my diet
how is that going
Slow but steady
I'd like to have lost all 30 kilo's tomorrow :P
But I went shopping 2 weeks ago and I shrunk a size already
I know...Nice!
But yeah, like I said, I can't really remember using any unusual words or something...
19:40
was anyone upset afterwards?
Not that I know. I didn't see anybody that looked bored by me or upset...
is it getting cooler there?
cooler? colder? a little, but we're having a few warmer days right now (cold nights though, clear skies)
I can come up with at least five different questions but they all involve my ex
That bad huh?
19:47
lol
just feel I could have handled some stuff differently perhaps
Well, if you want to prevent the same mistakes from happening again, I think you might ask..?
or some people going through something similar might benefit?
"How do I prevent this in the future" types of questions are really difficult to answer... I think that Shog addresses it in one of his answers on Meta...
9
A: How can I improve my question about interacting in a political discussion group?

Shog9I've read your question a couple of times now, and... I'm not totally sure what you want. Remember, the purpose of asking questions is to solve some real problem that you face, or at least a problem reasonably similar to it: You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual...

based on actual problems yup
You may never face the situation again or you may face it again but something about the details of the problem are different enough that the answers don't help you. Good questions are about problems you have right now... either you're dealing with a one-off situation that you're in the middle of or it's a problem that recurs regularly and you have trouble dealing with it every time.
As an example of the latter, my question about pleasantries in email: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/2498/…
Also, only 9 days remaining until the site is 100 days old!
19:57
a little over 3 months!
Exactly three months today :-) I'm wondering what happens now?
NVZ
NVZ
@Tinkeringbell 3 months old? I think 3 more and IPS will call us mama and dada.
@NVZ I think I already mentioned I don't really like 'things' that are too young to communicate effectively :P So, I'll take my hands off for now. See you back in a year :P
NVZ
NVZ
@Tinkeringbell Me? I'm not the one taking baby steps. IPS is. :P
@NVZ Yeah, so I'll leave IPS :P
NVZ
NVZ
20:05
@Tinkeringbell And do what? Be a mother who abandoned her baby IPS at 3 months old?
Sad. :P
@NVZ Why? Baby IPS will be in the hands of excellent nannies :P
NVZ
NVZ
We're all parents now. Parents to this 3-month-old baby. Accept the responsibilities, you. :P
NOOOOO! I'm going to sleep. Thanks for the nightmares!
NVZ
NVZ
With great rep, comes great responsibility.
I know, I passed 4k today. Is that enough rep to put this baby to sleep? :P
If it cries, it's yours tonight
NVZ
NVZ
20:08
LOL. Okay. "How do I convince other users that looking after IPS is not my sole responsibility?"
@NVZ Make a meta. I'll answer it in the morning :P
NVZ
NVZ
Fits the main site perhaps.
@Catija, thanks for answering my meta. You did a great frame challenge there ;)
NVZ
NVZ
Anyway, goodnight to you. :)
@NVZ Sleep well everybody that's in the appropriate time-zone for a nap! :)
NVZ
NVZ
20:10
You're way too early. It's just 10pm for you.
And the alarm goes off at 6
something something 8 hours of sleep! ;)
bye!
NVZ
NVZ
I'm at 12:10am and still up all night get fun.
Mine goes off at 5-45
LOL
Okay. Ciao.
good night @Tinkeringbell
 
3 hours later…
22:48
use ping set target = everyone &
Do mods have a ping everyone feature?
Hi Gypsy Silentweaver! :)
No.
@HenryWHHackv2.1 o/
LTNS (Well LTNC)
Long Time No Chat
LTNS can also mean Long Time No Spam. :D
23:18
[Congrats Interpersonal.SE on] 90 days beta! :)
23:53
Congrats to @apaul34208 for the amazing achievement of hitting 10K in 90 days!
9
apaul34208 Is the 10K man!

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