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Jesse Barnett
Jesse Barnett
12:33 AM
Why did I write that? because I thought it was a fun comment.
What do I think about this? I think that you are well known for writing great answers, and having a lovely and ideal view on how IPS should be and some people in the community do look up to that. But when it comes to actually pushing forwards that ideal into practice on our site thats a different matter, it is far easier to clap and say "yes I agree with that" when it is coming from a 'reputable' source. The reason people are so hesitant is because the ideal i'm talking about doesn't actually exist on the site yet... so when you …
I also think there is something to be said about picking your battles. Lowering the standard a little, and starting with the worst then building up from there would be a better way of getting everyone on board. With questions like the one we were talking about yesterday, i think its too idealistic to insist they fix their answers...
 
Extroverted Main Man
Extroverted Main Man
0
Q: Should I reply to women's messages on dating websites if I don't find them attractive?

problemofficerLet's say I am registered on a dating website. Sometimes I get messages (a few short sentences) from women that I don't find attractive at all, therefore I know 100% that I won't be dating them even if they have a great personality. Does it make sense to reply to their message? At the moment I d...

online-interaction europe gender dating
 
Jesse Barnett
Jesse Barnett
^vtc pls
 
HDE 226868
HDE 226868
12:52 AM
@Tinkeringbell Nicely written.
 
problemofficer
problemofficer
@Oleg After reading "what questions can you ask" I decided to delete it because it is not about etiquette either. I was mostly interested in not hurting other peoples emotions but I think this is not something that can be asked here.
 
Oleg
Oleg
@problemofficer Lot's and lots of questions about not hurting other peoples emotions here but it needs to be about something specific and never have the world "should" in them.
 
Jesse Barnett
Jesse Barnett
@problemofficer glad you went and gave the help a read :) we get a fair number of similar questions so its no big deal to point out that they are off topic. Mind if I ask what got you to read through the help? might give us some pointers for what to do next time
2
 
apaul
apaul
1:08 AM
 
Oleg
Oleg
@apaul You mean like the right for genital integrity for example? (many other rights that only women have, I can give you some reading material if you're interested)
 
problemofficer
problemofficer
1:32 AM
@JesseBarnett I think you(?) commented on the question that it were off-topic, so I went to the help to confirm that. I am using other communities as well so this is not the first time I had to read up on what specifically is allowed and what not. Had to "check my ego", but I guess it increases the quality of the questions.
Although I have to say that now half an hour later, I don't quite remember why my question was that bad. I could have narrowed it to this specific case that someone messaged me and now I felt bad for hurting by not answering and my goal is to not hurt the woman....it's kinda the same question but would probably comply to the sites rules.
 
Jesse Barnett
Jesse Barnett
@problemofficer the question of whether or not that would be on topic is actually really relevant right now... i might think about making a meta
but just as a rule of thumb, even if it might slip through the cracks I would really advise trying to narrow the definition of what you are looking for in an answer as much as possible and explain it as well as you can
because you haven't decided what to do, but have just changed the frame of the question away from asking us what you should do... I honestly have no idea if that is a valid question or not
 
A J
A J
@Tinkeringbell great post! :)
 
Extroverted Main Man
Extroverted Main Man
2:08 AM
-1
Q: How do I stop my parents from forcing me to eat food that I don't want to?

BOiMy parents are really strict. The other day, I didn't want to eat the food my mom had prepared for lunch. I was too full and I didn't like the food either. But she yelled and yelled to make me eat some food(i do not remember what it was, but it was gross). She forced me to eat. I am from the U.S....

parents
 
 
3 hours later…
A J
A J
4:38 AM
→ 51 messages moved to trash
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
4:50 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: How do I answer a question about not enjoying a party without revealing sensitive information by Suhail Khan on interpersonal.SE (@Tinkeringbell)
 
A J
A J
5:41 AM
@Tinkeringbell o/
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@AJ \o
 
A J
A J
@Tinkeringbell wassup?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Jesse I can understand most of it. At the same time, I disagree (and hope for the time when it won't be necessary) with not doing stuff because things could be worse. It is exactly what more community is needed for
@AJ not much, on a bus because there's no trains (again)... Just started the Geo ICT training yesterday and today will be even more of the same
Over there?
 
A J
A J
@Tinkeringbell for a new project or a new language?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Both ;)
I'm going to learn to work with GE Smallworld and Magik
And then I'm going on a new project
 
A J
A J
5:57 AM
@Tinkeringbell Nothing much. got a little work and have to pretend that I am busy.
@Tinkeringbell cool!
@Tinkeringbell got bored of Java? ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
6:16 AM
morning
 
A J
A J
afternoonm
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@AJ Never! But this matches the Archaeology GIS I did a little ;-)
https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/12760/1599 > OP already stated they won't edit their question, but I tried and leave a comment asking for clarification on the goal yesterday, which wasn't met. Also, there's still no cultural background.

Anyone here that hasn't close voted yet, that feels like it should be closed too?
 
A J
A J
you know I and Magisch can't close it again.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@AJ I wasn't sure ;)
 
A J
A J
:P
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:24 AM
But it's good to have it here for someone else to stumble upon ;-)
 
A J
A J
Happiness is when OP says your answer worked for them.
 
Jesse
Jesse
7:01 AM
@Tinkeringbell well, I figured what the hell I might as well try it out to get some context if I am going to be making claims about people not listening to such comments and have just been on a spree of 10 or so "back it up" comments... ill keep you posted incase any actually get improved, my expectation is that ill get about 1/3 arguing, 1/3 ignoring and 1/3 failing to realise the real problem :')
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell I was one of the original close voters. You cannot close a question twice :p
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Magisch Is there any rule on closing protected questions? I can't remember seeing that one before either
 
Magisch
Magisch
You can close protected questions just fine
 
Jesse
Jesse
ooh cool
 
Magisch
Magisch
a question being protected just means you need 10(?) site reputation to answer it (the association bonus does not count for this)
 
A J
A J
7:13 AM
@Jesse Feel free to close a protected question (if needed). Once it gets closed, protected banner will be replaced by closed one.
 
Jesse
Jesse
how about protecting a question that you also plan to close?
The words seem to oppose each other, but I can think of plenty of scenario's where someone might want to do both
if a close-worthy question is generating a lot of low lvl comments/answers
you should protect and then vtc it right?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Jesse that's a good call ;)
But preferably, stuff gets closed before it's 24 hours old and can be protected
 
Magisch
Magisch
Protecting a question is for questions that attract a lot of naa/really bad answers from low rep users
like questions that have keywords attracting spam, for instance.
 
A J
A J
@Jesse I closed it, but it was reopened. then I saw poor answers from new users so I protected it.
 
A J
A J
8:14 AM
→ 5 messages moved to Trash
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell You really trawled half of meta for that meta answer, didn't you?
Reads like something shog would write :p
> because beautiful is part of the definition of 'woman'.
This bit here irks me
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
8:39 AM
@Magisch well, it irks me that there's such a boatload of info already available and we still have such stuff happening
Personal pet peeve
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell you have no idea how few people read meta when they join
let alone old meta threads
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
9:04 AM
We should have a reading list
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell Maybe a meta that works like the FAQ on MSE
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Was just thinking about that.
- I have trouble with:

- backing up my answer
- writing a good comment
Stuff like that?
We have meta's on those, answers that explain it already. I think it might work...
We need to be careful not to just copy-paste stuff like 'how does flagging work' etc.
I think a good 'heading' will be 'I have a question about how SE sites work in general' and link that to main meta FAQ
 
Magisch
Magisch
9:19 AM
@Tinkeringbell Should clear this with the mods before proceeding though
And possibly a cm
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Yep.
Or just write a meta asking if we can have a FAQ meta ;-)
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell write a meta asking if we can write a meta asking if we can have a FAQ on when it's appropriate to ask before writing a meta
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Well, if you do that one, then I'll write the follow up :P
 
Magisch
Magisch
9:39 AM
@Tinkeringbell done
 
A J
A J
@Magisch @Tinkeringbell are you writing an answer? Or you have already written?
I just caught up with the chat now
 
Introverted Meta Man.
Introverted Meta Man.
10:19 AM
2
Q: Could this site make use of a FAQ?

MagischReading Tinkeringbell's answer here today I realised just how much guidance there already is on this meta on various topics like how to compose answers, how to back up your answers, when to flag and various other more or less specific topics. Given that this site is fairly different from the nor...

discussion feature-request faq-proposed
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
10:35 AM
@R.Schmitz I'm confused by your response. I wasn't judging the answer (I agree with the answer), I was replying to your comment. And I wouldn't describe "It is never ok to stare" as a catchphrase, but even if you do, that doesn't change the fact that it's true. Note that the OP never actually asked "how do I avoid staring?" The closest they came is, "I want to avoid being distracted by her chest". I think that, "Try to focus on her face" is a reasonable starting point. — bornfromanegg 51 secs ago
#12763 bornfromanegg (101 rep) | A: How can I avoid the awkwardness of a returning player who wears a low-cut shirt? (score: 228) | posted 53 hours ago by Jane S (1741 rep) | edited 52 hours ago by Jane S (1741 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
A J
A J
10:48 AM
A new "what should I do" question.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
11:12 AM
@AJ no, am not writing an answer, feel free to post your own even if I were ;)
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
12:07 PM
Why is this answer being downvoted? This is what OP needs to listen to, because there are many hints of a deep-seated issue here(insecurity, lack of self-confidence, etc...). No matter how logical you try to be about being faithful and making plans for the future, infidelity and cheating happen lightning fast and before you know it, it's already too late. OP is already with one foot set on this guy, how long will it take for the guy to become the answer to solve OP's self-confidence issues? — DudeAtStudioApartment 19 secs ago
#12885 DudeAtStudioApartment (331 rep) | A: I have a crush on a coworker but won't act on it, how can I tell my boyfriend about it and that I'll remain faithful? (score: 0) | posted 2 hours ago by henning (3685 rep) | edited 42 minutes ago by henning (3685 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
12:37 PM
@DudeAtStudioApartment Why is this answer being downvoted? I wish dowvoters would explain, but it's probably because (1) my answer is indirect/frame-challenging, (2) may come across as presumptuous, (3) is unpleasant, (4) is more complex than a ready-made recipe. I didn't expect this answer to become popular, but I do think it might be useful for some future readers who run into similar situations. — henning 1 min ago
#12885 henning (3683 rep) | A: I have a crush on a coworker but won't act on it, how can I tell my boyfriend about it and that I'll remain faithful? (score: -1) | posted 3 hours ago by henning (3683 rep) | edited 1 hours ago by henning (3683 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
Magisch
Magisch
1:21 PM
cc @sphennings
I lean towards troll though
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Who is to blame?
 
sphennings
sphennings
@Magisch You're probably right.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I voted unclear, but should have gone with POB
 
Extroverted Main Man
Extroverted Main Man
-1
Q: When should you stop playful banter at the office?

Italianstallion69So, I sometimes lend cigarettes from a gay I work with. To show I’m ok with his sexuality and for a bit of fun I often approach him when he is sat at his desk and rub my groin on his shoulder. He is known for his sporting sense of humour and often plays along by pretending to be pissed off by jok...

work-environment
 
sphennings
sphennings
I almost VTCed it as a "Should I?" question.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
1:25 PM
@sphennings Sure, why not? Put that in the comment too, so feel free
 
sphennings
sphennings
I've known enough guys who genuinely don't think that that sort of behavior is a problem that I decided to err on the side of answering the question.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@sphennings really though?
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
Have you actually received this "definite instruction that I can have a cig but to please stop approaching dick first"? Or is that a hypothetical scenario? — F1Krazy 1 min ago
#12897 F1Krazy (103 rep) | Q: When should you stop playful banter at the office? (score: -5) | posted 12 minutes ago by Italianstallion69 (1 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["offensive"]
 
sphennings
sphennings
Given their comment on my post. They're a troll.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@sphennings The 69 in the name didn't tip you off?
 
sphennings
sphennings
1:32 PM
I generally ignore usernames.
Might as well delete it. There's nothing redeeming about the question.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I think the mods get angry if we do that?
Don't delete stuff just because you suspect a troll?
I think I have gotten a slap on the wrist for that a few times
 
Richard U
Richard U
1:46 PM
If it's crap, I delete it
 
Jesse
Jesse
@sphennings please please please change the words your link is attached to. When you add a link onto a single noun with no real explanation of what the link contains, that implies that the link is a definition of the noun.
 
sphennings
sphennings
@Jesse What are you referirng to?
 
Jesse
Jesse
ooh wrong user :D
its hennings not sphennings
 
sphennings
sphennings
@Jesse I'm the SP version
 
Jesse
Jesse
xD
 
Richard U
Richard U
1:56 PM
Can we just call you Bruce and eliminate all the confusion?
 
Jesse
Jesse
I thought it was a funny coincidence... now i realise it was a direct quote :D sorry for hammering in the point so hard, it was a nice reference nonetheless :D
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
2:31 PM
@Oleg please don't make me put the room in time out again
Quit arguing in circles, all of you
And anyone else thinking of chiming in again, I do have a kick mute button at my disposal
I am not afraid to use it
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg so when I comment on a user that is asking "why are people downvoting? is it just because my frame challenge disagree's with OP?" and i respond that backing up the answer with personal experience is a good way to get OP to better understand the perspective your answer is coming from..... how does that require the same comment as a question where the OP commented how they thought the answer spoke from "real life experience"
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Jesse @Tinkeringbell You choose to address only me for some reason, I stopped...
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
I'm sorry but this sounds like a troll. — henning 15 secs ago
#12864 henning (3702 rep) | Q: How do I tell my parents I don't like them forcing me to eat food that I don't want to? (score: -2) | posted 12 hours ago by BOi (22 rep) | edited 1 hours ago by OldPadawan (8816 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
 
Rainbacon
Rainbacon
@IPSCommentBot Good call on the comment, but an odd regex to match on
 
Catija
Catija
@Oleg If you want to post helpful comments, please, do so. Posting identical comments on five posts that don't actually help the user improve is not OK... particularly if it's the same user for all five comments. Targeting users for any reason - voting, comments, flagging... is unwelcome behavior.
4
 
Jesse
Jesse
2:39 PM
@Tinkeringbell I said it before... when people see you commenting on their post asking for improvements, and they look around and see that most answers don't actually meet that level of quality... they can get mad and can react just like this :/ its a key reason why people don't often feel comfortable pushing for excessively high quality content
 
Catija
Catija
I don't like the auto comments that some people use but at the very least they link to helpful guidance on meta about how to improve a post. The better option would be to directly tailor every comment to the post itself. Give suggestions that are specific to the post in a way that leaves the user feeling like you actually helped them improve rather than that you're shoe-horning them into a tiny box that fits some esoteric decision of what "good" is.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
→ 54 messages moved to trash
 
Catija
Catija
Make it clear that we want to help them and improve their post so that it fits this site's needs and theirs.
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Catija They were posted with the goal of helping the user improve, unfortunately he choose to lash out at me instead of reflecting upon himself.
 
Catija
Catija
And if you're too tired to do anything but post an auto comment, maybe let someone else respond... or at least use the auto comment as a launching point and edit it to meet the need.
 
Jesse
Jesse
2:40 PM
improve myself... not improve my answer
 
Catija
Catija
@Oleg No. They weren't. You can say that all you want but it's not. You didn't tell them what was lacking, they were generic and useless.
... and they've all been deleted.
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Catija They were, just in a different way...
 
Catija
Catija
If that's all you want to leave as a comment, don't.
If you really feel that behavior is somehow "OK"... I encourage you to take it to meta. I doubt you'll find much sympathy there.
Discussion on this topic in here is over.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Oleg I liked the comment you posted yesterday... These weren't as helpful. Have you seen the meta post describing helpful comments?
@Jesse I know, it wears me out too, which is why I'd like to ask you to keep it up, because I can use the help? :)
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Tinkeringbell There was no request to back it up in those, asking every answer to back it up is silly.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
2:46 PM
@Oleg It isn't :) Ever seen the good subjective, bad subjective blog post?
It specifically mentions you HAVE to back up, or things will fail
 
Oleg
Oleg
Yes of course. Can you show rule on this site which says you have to "back it up"?
 
Jesse
Jesse
I would personally argue that every post would improve if it were properly backed up, but it is only really necessary on some answers that make a number of 'larger' statements without any real context
 
Catija
Catija
> If an answer calls out directly relevant personal experience, or reference materials, those are signs that the answer likely deserves an upvote. If the answer instead provides what seems like sensible advice, backed with an explanation of why that advice seems applicable to the situation, fully answers the question, but doesn't explicitly state what parallel experiences happened to the author that they are basing their advice on, that's fine, too.

If instead, an answer is brief, low quality, and doesn't seem to stand on its own, it is appropriate to downvote and add a comment saying "ans…
12
A: Why doesn't this site have a back it up rule?

BeofettTL;DR Yes, we should have a "back it up rule". It should be added to our help center. However, we need to be very careful about how we "enforce" this rule, because good advice on interpersonal skills can be based upon an amalgam of personal experiences built up over time, and doesn't require...

 
Oleg
Oleg
...but doesn't explicitly state what parallel experiences happened to the author that they are basing their advice on, that's fine, too.
 
Catija
Catija
> backed with an explanation of why that advice seems applicable to the situation
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
2:51 PM
16
Q: Do we want references in our answers?

Yvette ColombThis is the sort of site that could well lend itself to using personal experience to answer questions. Is it ok to use personal experience? Do we want people to cite authoritative sources in their answers? or is the School of Hard Knocks an Authority?

discussion answers
So yes, we want references, and experience is considered a reference
but without a reference, your answer is worthless
@Catija I think that goes for the etiquette questions. Although there are often references (sources) on etiquette
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg that was only IF the answer provided sensible advice backed with an explanation of why that advice seems applicable to the situation... and even then its still better to back it up
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
What I'm trying to discuss is whether talking about medical conditions is an appropriate IPS response. 'Being full and not liking the food' should be taken at face value absent other factors which would move the question beyond the realm of IPS, we are not a general advice site. To me this is a case of we've heard hoofbeats and I am utterly bemused as to why you are talking about zebras when the OP didn't mention stripes. Anyway I'm leaving this now and won't have access to SE over the weekend, so... well, I guess I've shared a concern with you and you don't agree. Have a nice weekend. — Spagirl 1 min ago
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Tinkeringbell That contradicts what I quoted, so which one is it? Is there a clear "back it up" rule where is it? If there is one why isn't it being enforced?
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg as it stands, it is a guideline (not a rule) that we are encouraged to suggest when applicable.
 
sphennings
sphennings
It's most applicable on short answers that only say "Do this" without explanation or justification.
 
Oleg
Oleg
2:56 PM
@Jesse Yes a good answer should do that, if backing it up is natural and relevant then yes I agree with however trying to shoehorn it in into every answer is going to be counterproductive.
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg I didn't... you are the one that did that to my answers
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
@agemO I'm not a native either. It does exist a phrasing for this in my language (i.e. "il ne me laisse pas indifférent", which would mean sth like "he doesn't let me insensitive") but after some research I've found that the potential corresponding word in English also means "having an affair", so I let it go & I used "crush" instead. — avazula 33 secs ago
#12827 avazula (3389 rep) | Q: I have a crush on a coworker but won't act on it, how can I tell my boyfriend about it and that I'll remain faithful? (score: 19) | posted 23 hours ago by avazula (3389 rep) | edited 3 hours ago by avazula (3389 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
 
Oleg
Oleg
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg I commented on answers I thought did not provide a reasonable enough explanation and could have really benefited from being backed up... you commented on every post that appeared as though it did not have a specific scenario it was backed from
I stand by that comment... Val is suggesting some valid things, but they all sound to me like recommendations for what OP should do. Not a grounded explanation of why those suggestions would work in OP's situation
so, backing it up with some personal experience would really be a benefit to the answer
I am not down-voting, or flagging it... just making a suggestion for something I believe would genuinely help
how about you get off of my back and stop complaining when users try to actively improve the quality of answers on this site
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
...site has such tricky rules about what can and can't be asked. I'm not a teen, and yet I have found it pretty impossible to ask what is considered a well posed question here. I'm not questioning or criticizing the rules, I'm just saying it can be hard. — aparente001 1 min ago
#12864 aparente001 (2244 rep) | Q: How do I tell my parents I don't like them forcing me to eat food that I don't want to? (score: -2) | posted 13 hours ago by BOi (22 rep) | edited 2 hours ago by OldPadawan (8816 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
 
Oleg
Oleg
3:10 PM
@Jesse I think what you're doing actively harms the quality of this site, but alright. I'm generally not interested in backing up my answers, as long as it's only a guideline please don't leave any comments asking me to do so on any of my answers.
 
Catija
Catija
And if you refuse to support your answers, don't be surprised if they're deleted. As long as we're all on the same page, we're good.
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Catija Please clarify, is the link you provided earlier correct or not? Is it only a guidline or not?
 
Catija
Catija
Answers that fail to meet guidelines are likely to be downvoted and deleted... and are. Regularly.
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Catija Yes, but what are those guidelines? The answer you linked to says you don't have to back it up.
 
Catija
Catija
There are nearly 300 negatively scoring deleted answers on this site.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
3:20 PM
@Catija We've been lax
→ 1 message moved to trash
 
Catija
Catija
@Oleg It absolutely does not. You've chosen to interpret it that way... but that's not what it says.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU you can watch in silence ;-)
That wasn't really a good contribution to the drama
Nor a perfect way to stop it
 
Catija
Catija
You can not take this sentence at its pieces and use that as proof that backing it up isn't required. Read the entire sentence rather than one phrase of it.
> If the answer instead provides what seems like sensible advice, backed with an explanation of why that advice seems applicable to the situation, fully answers the question, but doesn't explicitly state what parallel experiences happened to the author that they are basing their advice on, that's fine, too.
 
Richard U
Richard U
(☉_☉)
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU Sorry, forgot to mention that valuable attribution is always welcome :)
Wasn't silencing you, just... the picture doesn't help ;-)
 
Oleg
Oleg
3:23 PM
@Catija Yes... "backed with an explanation of why that advice seems applicable to the situation" does not equal "back it up with personal experience"
Can I please get an explicit yes from you that the former is good?
 
Jesse
Jesse
personal experience and references are the two basic ways people back up their answers
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Jesse And there is the third way which I just quoted.
 
Catija
Catija
@Oleg Many, many people just say "do this"... without explaining why that's a good solution. If you can not at minimum explain why your solution is a good one, then it's not a good answer. If you explain why it's a good solution, fine. But explaining why IS part of backing it up, even if you are using references or personal experience.
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg ahahah no, that quote was in part of the sentence that was giving the alternative for backing up an answer
 
Richard U
Richard U
C.A.R. format helps. When answering, back your experience with describing the challenge, what actions you took, and the ending result.\
2
that works very well in TWP and it could work herer
here as well
 
Oleg
Oleg
3:25 PM
@jese
That's semantics both phrasings are good for me.
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg ... you were asked to read its entirety. When the words "If the answer instead" are followed by a description of what you can do instead of backing up your answer. That clearly means that what is being described is not a definition of how to back up your answer
there is no form of paraphrasing or semantics that change this... its very clear
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Jesse @Catija quoted it after telling me that I'm wrong that there is an alternative to backing it up so she interprets it as a third way to back it up. You say it's an alternative to backing it up. For my purposes both statements are the same.
I agree with you but it doesn't really matter to me.
 
Jesse
Jesse
that is not the context it was quoted in...
 
Oleg
Oleg
No?? Me saying you don't have to back it up was directly followed by her telling me that I interpreted it wrongly and providing that quote. Please look up.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Alright, going nowhere again
If you think the quote is unclear, you might want to just ask the author of that meta post instead of speculating
 
Oleg
Oleg
3:35 PM
@Tinkeringbell Are you addressing me? The quote is clear and we did go somewhere, now I have a much better understanding of the rules here.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Oleg Did I ping you? I don't think so.
 
Jesse
Jesse
@Oleg just don't claim @Catija was saying something she clearly wasn't. That quote was one of the things used to point out the rule to you when you had taken a smaller part out of context
 
Oleg
Oleg
@Tinkeringbell Well... you posted after my message so there was a reasonable chance you were addressing me, sorry for being presumptions.
@Jesse I only did it for brevity, I was fully aware and completely understood the whole quote, assume good intentions and all that...
 
Extroverted Main Man
Extroverted Main Man
4:01 PM
0
Q: How to tactfully refuse outsiders to stay in your home

Artie LadieI am in USA (2nd generation Indian American, if that is relevant) and have witnessed situations where person A let person B (A's wife's distant relative) stay in their apartment, but they overstayed their welcome. In a particular situation (20 years ago), person A gave person B a newspaper "roo...

united-states saying-no india
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@ExtrovertedMainMan That's a hypothetical one?
 
Extroverted Main Man
Extroverted Main Man
4:53 PM
0
Q: How do I interact with people who don't understand that I don't want to share personal information

user16403I get it, people like to share things, know whats going on in each others lives and connect with each other. I don't, I'm a private person, I don't want to share personal things and because of that I don't expect anyone to share their stuff with me. some people get that and some don't. This is p...

coworkers personal-information
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@ExtrovertedMainMan I'm sorry, I'll have to pull a pseudohuman here: I don't understand
 
Catija
Catija
@Tinkeringbell Howso?
For example, I talk about my personal life even here quite a bit... but many people don't... I think the OP there is the latter... but if people are sharing things about themselves, some might feel like they are also expected to share personal things.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I just wrote some comments
'some people get it, some don't' > Is this after a good explanation of your boundaries to them? Or are you expecting them to read between the lines when you're giving the short generic answers? What's the company culture like, is it 'normal' for people to keep to themselves (easier in a corporate setting, much less so in a family business for example)... How acceptable is your behavior, culturally? — Tinkeringbell 42 secs ago
'How to interact' is rather broad. Is this about explaining the problem, about asserting the boundary once you set it, or about avoiding directly mentioning the problem in your responses to personal questions (as you've been doing now)? — Tinkeringbell 45 secs ago
Basically, I don't understand what they're asking of us
What do they need help with?
What do they want to change?
 
 
1 hour later…
Richard U
Richard U
6:19 PM
@Tinkeringbell My uncle was and my remaining brother is exactly like that. They don't say nothin' 'bout nothin'
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU Yeah, the 'what do they want to change' isn't personality related... just. Do you want help with explaining the boundary, with setting it, with keeping it or do you want a way to remind people of the boundary without mentioning the boundary like you're doing now...
I talk to much, I know ;)
Btw, I like CAR :)
Sounds a bit buzzwordy, but I think it'll work ;)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell it's just a memory peg to make it easier to remember. "One time I had to deal with an aggressive client who insisted on 7am meetings, which were impractical (Challenge) So, I took this opportunity to let him know that our supply chain group didn't get in until 8 and wouldn't be available for questions if he needed to ask any (action) Eventually, he agreed to reschedule (Result)
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Ahh, but now you failed to explain how you told him you sleep in until 8 XD :P
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
Then I don't understand how socializing with her crush can help, maybe you can expand on that? For now you gained an upvote caused by my misunderstanding so be careful if you decide to edit, I might take it away. — Oleg 1 min ago
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I know... I like the acronym, but it made me think of the SMART goals and ways of writing a CV that have been thrown at me a lot lately ;)
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
6:27 PM
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell I always put things in terms of the other person's interests. That way, they cannot logically refuse me without actively working against their own interests.
@Tinkeringbell Okay, SMART goals ARE Buzzword BS
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
...that was inappropriate, wasn't it? xD
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan :D
I am not easily offended.
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
Goold ol' delete button - letting me give @RichardU crap without being a jerk to other people who share that trait with him who read it later! ;-)
 
Richard U
Richard U
LOL
remember, crap is fertilizer :D
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:29 PM
I studied archaeology. I was told a good thesis (which is basically a research question and answers) addresses a lot of "W" 's.
Who, What, Where, When, Why,
;-)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell that is true. Any good news story is the same
I worked for the Wall St journal for a few years
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU Exactly. Although you can easily write an essay proving ancient aliens using that too... So it doesn't really help XD
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell that's where the "HOW" comes in handy
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU That's not a W :P
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell have you ever heard of the term "The Repugnant conclusion?"
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:31 PM
I actually had fun ;)
Ever seen that one? I wrote my first ever academic research on that one XD
 
Richard U
Richard U
that looks like it's from the movie "The Fifth Element"
@Tinkeringbell I was a member of my state's Egyptology society for a while.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
Multipass?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
The glyphs are real world as far as I remember
They're just overlaid
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
Fifth Element as historical document confirmed
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:34 PM
But Who, What, Where, When, Why made a fun question (The exercise was just to practise academic writing, so I got 9 out of 10)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell a basic failing of ours is that we don't actually see what we see. What we see is what our brain interprets out of the data it gets from our eyes
I'm thinking of changing my name to "Trollvis", but I think that would give the mods a bevy of heart attacks
@TheTinyMan I saw a woman at a Con dressed as lelu.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU I like being able to just call you Richard
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell I've been called worse.... ;)
 
Rainbacon
Rainbacon
Worse isn't a very good name, who in their right mind would call you that :p
 
Richard U
Richard U
Besides, I'm getting all of my satisfaction trolling facebook.
I have their algorythms running in circles
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:37 PM
@RichardU Oh yeah, I
was doing that before it got mainstream XD
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Rainbacon Well, I've gone by quite a few over the years, including Snarktimus prime and SnarkVader
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
Good game btw /\
But yeah, I definitely appreciate that kind of cosplay. :-)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan my work filter blocks the images
@TheTinyMan Yeah, I've been active so long, I know why some of the more bizarre rules ar at the cons.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
waiiit, you're at work? dude, it's weekend!
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
6:39 PM
@Tinkeringbell Not for another few hours over here!
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell not in America
they work us for eighty hours in buildings without windows
chained to our desks
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@RichardU The whipping is nice though
 
Richard U
Richard U
with no water
@TheTinyMan unless you have a truly sadistic boss who says "no"
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Okay, that's enough XD
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell I suppose I shouldn't mention my last flight on United?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:43 PM
You already made that joke ;)
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell Well, that one, yes, but not about what the new flight attendant uniforms look like
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Can't be worse than Swiss Guard?
 
Richard U
Richard U
I was just surprised to see the flight attendant point to my seat with a riding crop....
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@RichardU How much extra did you have to pay for that one? :o
Wait, I was asked to can it, sorry. Shushing. xD
 
user15026
.....what have I wandered into
 
Rainbacon
Rainbacon
6:50 PM
Something that is weirdly fun to watch
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Ash I told them to get a room (preferably off site)... they don't listen XD
Then again, Tiny never listen to me :(
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
MY LOVE CANNOT BE CONTAINED TO ONE ROOM
:'(
I do so! It's happened at least once!
 
Richard U
Richard U
A sick mind is a terrible thing to waste
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@TheTinyMan I'm pretty sure I knew what happened in that case i.imgur.com/hfFTF92.jpg
 
Richard U
Richard U
I just had the scare of my life last week, so I'm in a weird mood
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
6:52 PM
@RichardU What happened?
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@Tinkeringbell ... I feel like there's no response that I can make to that that's even remotely IPS-appropriate. Or maybe my IPS skills are just lacking because I've been idle for so long here. xD
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell Cancer screening for colon cancer. I was either stage zero or stage 1. they got everything.
but I was nervous as a turkey the day before thanksgiving.
I told my surviving brother to get checked though.
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@RichardU "They got everything" meaning you're safe? I'm glad to hear that. :-\
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan yes, I'm safe.
thank you
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU Well, that's good :) Glad to hear that too, and I hope you'll be able to get back to normal sometime :)
 
Richard U
Richard U
6:57 PM
@Tinkeringbell well, normal for me is always at least two standard deviations, so.... :D
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU Nah, with a bit of creative statistics we can make you fit ;) I studied archaeology, I learned how to do creative statistics XD
I mean, you need something if you want to prove aliens exist
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell there used to be this theme restaurant called "Mars 2112" where they had actors walking around and talking to you while you ate (dressed up as aliens). one came around with an "Alien detector", and asked if there was anyone at the table they felt might not be entirely human.... Guess who everyone pointed to.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU I got asked to be Stitch's girlfriend when in Disney :(
Some sort of voice over show
When leaving, there was this british dude that commented 'Imagine the babies'
I decided right then and there to never have them
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell My eldest is an absolute mini-me in all things but gender. Drives the ex wife nuts. She even told me "I don't miss you, you're right here!" regarding our daughter.
The only thing is, she's even craftier than her old man.
I need my "A" game dealing with her.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
That's the one that didn't want the sleep couch right?
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
7:05 PM
@RichardU Could you imagine a mini-@Tinkeringbell? We'd have all this...order...in TAS!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@TheTinyMan The kid would be massively unhappy and need a therapist before they can even talk
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@Tinkeringbell Wow, you'd fit right in as a parent here in the States!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@TheTinyMan The only time you'll ever find me in the States is if I get the chance to dig up a dinosaur
Otherwise, I think I'll steer safely away from it
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
I'm not that old! @RichardU is though...
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@TheTinyMan I hope you're further evolved than a dinosaur though
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
7:08 PM
He's perpetually one step away from being buried, too!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
^Might not be the perfect time to point that out ?
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@Tinkeringbell I am a transcendental being!
@Tinkeringbell Ehh, until he tells me otherwise I'm betting that he is, dude seems bulletproof after-the-fact. @RichardU, please let me know if I'm wrong. :-)
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
I +1'ed this answer for the critically important point that such statements are often communicating something else, and that they signal that there's some emotional craving that needs to be discussed and met. Is the phrasing of the second paragraph (first after the quote block) optimal, though? I could see some people reading that as putting the blame/responsibility entirely on them, even though most of the time needs are neglected when people are doing their best just because we don't always known or understand each other well enough. — mtraceur 56 secs ago
Matched regex(es) [""]
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
^ That's a very good comment for a young-un
 
Rainbacon
Rainbacon
They have been around SE for 3 years, but it is nice to see someone come in (presumably) through HNQ and know well enough what they are doing
 
Richard U
Richard U
7:15 PM
@Tinkeringbell the states are very safe, provided you avoid large cities run by democrats
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU I just read you should never get out of your car if pulled over in traffic, because the cop will chicken out and hold you at gun point... Very safe place
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan yeah, I've been knocking at death's door for years. The good news is that I'm part cat and have five lives, the bad news is that I've used about thirty.
 
Rainbacon
Rainbacon
No, they only do that if you are of a racial minority
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Rainbacon you don't want to be deaf or autistic either
OR white in a minority town.
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@Rainbacon If you actually step out of the car and approach theirs? No, I'm pretty sure they're gonna be holding anyone at gunpoint there...
 
Richard U
Richard U
7:17 PM
I've been through that one.
Don't ever get out of the car when dealing with police, and never talk to them.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU That's another thing too... don't ever talk to the police... that seems so werid to me, because over here, you can basically ask them anything
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell but in all fairness, it's the "man bites dog" story that gets all the press
@Tinkeringbell "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be held Against you"
2
That is quite literally true.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Yeah but now you sound like you can't approach them and ask for directions?
 
Richard U
Richard U
what you say can only be held against you, nothing can be used in your favor.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Or information on how to act?
 
IPS Comment Bot
IPS Comment Bot
7:20 PM
@Oleg I feel a similar discontent with the use of the phrase "clinical experience" here, because the ambiguity leaves room for people to fill in the gaps with more experience/authority than might actually be relevant/present. Do you think it substantially detracts from the post? I already hold ideas that I consider correct/insightful that this posts' words match up to - so I'm seeing it in a rather favorable light independently of the "clinical experience" opener - I'd be curious to know how the "clinical experience" part effects other people's parse of the post as a whole. — mtraceur 37 secs ago
Matched regex(es) ["abusive"]
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
They're gonna hold silence against you, too, though... and I've definitely been really open and honest over something like a traffic ticket, or even an accident, and the cop shrugged and let me off with a warning, I'm betting because I treated him like a rational human being and not an adversary. (Also because I'm white I'm sure. >.< )
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell you can approach them, but if they approach you say nothing but "Am I being detained? Am I free to go? Should I call my lawyer"
@TheTinyMan Oh, I had a lovely experience in Newark NJ for driving while white.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@RichardU But maybe they just want to say 'you're bag is unzipped'
 
Richard U
Richard U
@Tinkeringbell then you say "thank you" and move on. But you say nothing substantive.
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
I've definitely gotten a "Your headlight is out, sir, just wanted to let you know, have a nice day!" from a cop that pulled me over before.
 
Richard U
Richard U
7:22 PM
@TheTinyMan I've gotten that, and a 129 dollar ticket
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@RichardU I think key to avoiding the ticket is to not piss the cop off
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan depends on the cop. Some are just... well.
 
TheTinyMan
TheTinyMan
@RichardU That's fair.
I maintain, though, that treating the cop like an adversary will almost guarantee that you have an adversary, even if you didn't before. It's the right response if you do have an actual adversary in him though.
 
Richard U
Richard U
@TheTinyMan When I was a teenager, my best friend (who is black) and I (who had long hair) would be driving in my very old car (it was older than I was) and never had to complain that there was never a police officer around when we needed one.
@TheTinyMan yeah, you have to do it situation by situation. If a cop approaches you and asks you what you're doing, where you're coming from or where you're going to, be VERY careful.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Like I said, dinosaurs only
 
Richard U
Richard U
7:25 PM
I also hedge my bets by buying the local police coffee.
@Tinkeringbell I dunno, if you dig in Colorado, you may stay. That part of the country is still "Live and let live" Nobody bothers you and you don't bother anyone.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
7:39 PM
@RichardU Wait, you just put all the introverts in there?
 
Oleg
Oleg
 
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