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12:13 AM
I only write text walls...
also maybe I should move this answer to another question
since now that I've written it all, it says what I want, but doesn't really apply to the question anymore
Yea that's what I was about to comment
That's not my downvote, and I think some of what you wrote is really great for this question, but a big chunk of it doesn't entirely fit
I'll move it to a place I think is a better home for it
and then I'll write a real answer to your question
Haha awesome. I don't want to discourage you after you put all that work into that answer. It's strong! It's just a different discussion
(Also quick tip...I find when i want to go "under construction" it's easier to delete the answer, edit, and then undelete ;) )
12:30 AM
Yeah, I only planned to leave it like that for 10 minutes, I'll delete as part of that process in the future
@Everyone I would like feedback on that^
Q: Complimenting as opposed to thanking

BCLCIn general, when should you give a compliment to someone instead of thanking them? I'm thinking of an analogy to Stop Saying “Sorry” And Say “Thank You” Instead like 'Stop Saying “Thank You” And Say “Good Job” Instead'. I think the idea is that saying 'sorry' instead of 'thank you' implies some...

Q: Bringing on board new diamond moderators?

D.HutchinsonAs many of you who spend time on the Meta site know, there are a lot of problems with the main site - lots of bad questions, low quality answers, and argumentative comments. Has there been some initial discussion of whether bringing on board a new diamond moderator could be helpful? If so, ho...

I fixed it
12:47 AM
+1, Looks good to me!
cool :)
1:22 AM
Q: How to convince people I don't want to attend an event?

ImperatorNote- I used the 'United-States' tag, but this takes place on the US-Canada border. TL;DR: There is an event that everyone is excited for but me, and I don't know how to convince people I don't want to go to it. Each member of my friend group wants me to attend for their own reasons, none of whi...

1:51 AM
@IntrovertedMetaMan. @D.Hutchinson If the site is struggling so much, adding more mods is not going to fix it
You need the community to step in/step up.
Mods aren't here to do all the hard work.
2:03 AM
... work... at all... who cares about "hard" :P
Well, they do some stuff :P
I am just very tired of people saying "well the mods need to do it"
A site thrives when it barely needs mods at all except when things slide south
or like...you need specific tooling that we have
2:07 AM
2:37 AM
> Most people are shocked when they find out how bad I am as an electrician
@IntrovertedMetaMan. umm... What!?!?
@AJ Better?
@Catija after the change of title? Still not.
No, but it's less deceptive. :D
@Catija lol
4 hours later…
6:19 AM
@IntrovertedMetaMan. The benefits in bringing on a new mod would be another person sharing the work and not wearing out the three we have so fast. Not all those things you mentioned.
6:43 AM
@Mithrandir But for that, the three we have right now should be worn out
I don't think we're raising enough flags XD mine usually all get solved the same day
@sphennings I did, but spiral wanted to write that answer and they did great ;)
@Tinkeringbell I was meaning that you got your explanation down to about a screenload, rather than the actual explanation itself. I like what they've done with their meta answer though.
@Tinkeringbell on a site this size, they should be solved that fast
Perhaps it's the person but it's taken longer than that to convey the concept effectively to people when I've tried to explain it in the past.
Good Afternoon all!
6:56 AM
@sphennings I have tried often before to get the realization across.. actually, I was flabbergasted last night at how well stuff was suddenly received
@Ash Yeah ;)
It's nice to be working with other users to improve things rather than dealing with the most recent dude who has decided to double down when told to follow the rules.
7:17 AM
31 mins ago, by A J
Good Afternoon all!
I think a new mod in another time zone could have value (less "dead time" where flags can't be handled) but it's really not that big of an issue rn
@Magisch Yeah, I wouldn't hate one that's awake now, but it won't magically solve the site
nothing will magically solve the site, the existing mods already do a fine job. What we need is more normal people to step up and help shape the site
7:24 AM
most, if not all, problems this site is struggling with can be solved by regular users, but there's not enough on one line to get it done
@Magisch I'd say we first have to get the ones that are already doing stuff in line, before we ask new ones to step up...
first of all we need to find out what that line is and who it is that's out of it
besides a few core things that's not a given
8:17 AM
@Mithrandir LQP Review completed with "looks OK": interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/8311
Right... the question is why it was reviewed that way.
I'd have said all of them are VLQ... But people apparently disagree. I've got 2 downvotes on this: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/11734/1599 while it's the only answer that gives a source and techniques for compromising instead of brainstorming :/
I've mentioned this before, but I'd like to see the whole brainstorming thing gone.
Sources, or experience (When I had to compromise, I had success with XYZ under circumstances ABC)
Both of the reviewing users have exclusively reviewed "Looks OK" in lqp and "Reopen" in the reopen queue as well as "No action needed" in the first posts / LA queue
Have fun fighting that battle.
You know what I'm not going to
Mods can action people if they feel they're not reviewing properly
8:23 AM
if someone is not reviewing properly, there is nothing you can do except bring it to mod attention
Yeah but is this 'improper' reviewing? We don't enforce back it up rules according to meta
We have nothing we can use against this
Which is why I'm not getting into it
@Tinkeringbell roboreviewing is harmful
it's not even about specific cases
Q: The current review system encourages fake reviews; some people upvote everything rather than actually fixing problems

ЯegDwightI went to a Late Answers review queue that had four items in it and started reviewing the first one by editing it into shape rather heavily. By the time I was done, someone else had reviewed the same post simply by upvoting it, so I only got a "Next" button, not an "I'm done" button. My edit st...

I'm all for removing the badges
This problem is really rampant on SO and I've long since given up fighting it there either
8:30 AM
I'd argue the issue here should be a bit more manageable
11 hours ago, by Catija
Having people agree "this is not OK as an answer" and getting the community to actually act on it... isn't the same thing. Meta usage is pretty small... so many reviewers don't know what rules we have for answers.
I think that needs fixing first
And I think we're even far off on 'not OK as an answer' so getting people to act on it isn't even something we should try yet
that doesn't meant you shouldn't try on acting on it
@JAD Yeah, you know, I tried acting on it... very frustrating, so I took that break that keeps being recommended
yeah I know
I'll be around to keep the chatroom clean, and that'll be it for a while
8:48 AM
@AJ Reviewed as "no action needed" in First Posts: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/8319
They shouldn't have.
This site has either robo-reviewers or those who don't know what to do.
or both.
@AJ that's what we've been discussing just now...
Yeah, I noticed.
I think the problem is mostly so few reviews are available that people jump on and instantly review any that come up
8:51 AM
I usually check the queue at least 2 times a day.
@Magisch And there are fewer who check mod tools.
I used to use is:a as a search term, and then sort by newest. New answers will pop up and the tab will give a notification. That way, I could track all new answers, not just first posts (some people go on answering sprees)...
Q: How to inform a friend who has anxiety that you don't dislike them

TwyxzI have a friend who has depression and anxiety, they constantly think that when they do certain things that I suddenly dislike them or have developed a sudden hate even though I understand what they're going through. I can't seem to tell them that they aren't annoying me or getting on my nerves. ...

The tools are slow... interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/10740/1599 is still pending deletion
I voted to delete that ages ago
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/11560/1599 another example of how bad reviewing can get on this site, this is actually a good one to show that there's not enough consensus
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/8320 was upvoted without even asking what was already tried...
Sorry. I seem to be breaking my own promises here..
Should we get Review Audits like SO, Maths etc.?
@AJ please no
9:01 AM
Won't make a difference if there's no consensus on what should and shouldn't be done
People will mess up the review audits just as bad
@AJ take a look here please to see why audits are a bad idea: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/…
@Catija it isn't your time yet. Nothing is exploding. Go back to sleep :)
@Tinkeringbell Sorry. Brain won't shut up... have to write an email.
good morning :)
isn't it like 4am over there?
@JAD I have seen them. But this is something we have to do to make users learn. It can be turned off anytime as far as I know.
9:05 AM
@JAD 4:05, yes
Puzzling did so. They started in beginning and turned off later after requested by Rand'althor I guess.
@AJ Problem is the amount of false reviews will seed a lot of bad audits
@AJ problem with audits is that you first need a very strict definition of what you are reviewing for
which is exactly the problem. We don't have that yet
Personally, I would prefer if meta activity was required to review, but that's not going to happen I don't think
@Catija Well, I'm very glad my mind likes sleep better than emails ;)
@JAD Not just activity then... a post that was positively received by the community at the least..
There's people that have a knack for stupid ideas and putting them on meta, you wouldn't want those ideas in the queue, that'd fix exactly nothing
meta-awareness is a start
I'd rather have people that know of the consensus and disagree with them, than people that just do random things
the former you can engage with more easily than the latter
9:10 AM
Let's create one. I am busy right now to dig up wrong reviews, though. But I can try.
let's create a what?
a meta post
On what?
wrong reviews
if we don't want to get review audits, this is the best we can do.
@Magisch I can go push several dozen posts in there ;)
9:11 AM
That's not going over well, there's no guidelines for what's 'wrong' and 'right' yet and even then people are just going to be nasty and say 'well, it's the only way I can disagree with the pedantry' or something like that. Be warned!
I have a history of posting meta posts that most people disagreed with but were important to make them aware.
I'd rather start with adressing roboreviewing that blaming people for wrong reviews
wrong is subjective, roboreviewing is slightly more objective
already voted
@Mithrandir Meh, judging from the comments, the OP is still looking for words.
9:13 AM
I haven't slept for 2 days. What should I do?
@Sid Find a hobby to fill the free time gap?
On a serious note, if you just can't sleep, go to a doctor
@Sid Read your engineering books. ;)
@Tinkeringbell the hobby along with academics is what is eating away sleep time.
@Sid okay, then you need to get priorities ;)
@Tinkeringbell I am fine. I don't need to go to a doctor
9:16 AM
@Sid Yeah, I just wasn't sure if you were unable to sleep or just keeping yourself awake ;)
I feel like sleeping but I can't or else I will miss class. :/
@AJ review audits on Puzzling.SE were an experiment to see how they'd work on a smaller site.
@Sid Go to class, then go to sleep
@Mithrandir But I read somewhere that they got some bad reviews in the beginning. That's why it was implemented.
@Tinkeringbell Got a chess match after that. It will probably go on till late night. After which, I have homework and other activities.
9:19 AM
@Sid Pffft.... Do you have time for some powernaps?
@Sid skip the game
Do the homework and go to sleep.
to squeeze in between? They're not the healthies choice, but they'll make do. And make sure you get some time off soon
Health is more important than chess.
@Mithrandir it's the semi finals. I am two matches away from winning...
@Sid You'll lose the final if you don't get sleep before that
9:21 AM
@Tinkeringbell I don't do power naps. I always sleep way longer than I intend to if I take a nap. Maybe, I can try sleeping in class... But that's never a good idea.
Q: How to let someone know he hurt me without spreading negative feelings

besinnungslosI am living in a flat with 3 other persons, 2 females and 1 male. I am a 25 year old male too. I have some romantic feelings to one of the female flatmates, Alice, but we never spoke about it nor do I think she knows it. Alice was having a little party yesterday at which I did not attend, howev...

10:23 AM
Q: How to decline a polite but insincere request

BoatI recently got a new job, and I don't talk with people besides what is needed for work, because I'm in such a life stage that I don't want to interact with strangers if I don't have to. My colleagues sometimes ask me to participate some free time activity. Usually I can make some excuse, like "...

10:35 AM
This looks fun, but is it actually suggesting improvements or asking clarification? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11790/…
it can be interpreted as a improvement suggestion, as in "you don't have to focus on your own locale (FR), you can act on the assumption that it is considered flirting everywhere"
Q: My fiancee is addicted to a pay-to-win game

Fez VrastaMy fiancee and I lived togheter for exactly 4 years as of today. She and I always loved video games, we both own several consoles (PS4, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Switch etc), we actually met online on one of the official communities of one of these consoles. She never exceeded with video games, for...

@Cashbee Meh... To me, it seems like people are being chatty. Which is why I flagged them
yes it became flirting after the second or third country
uiuh chatting not flirting xD
if the answer would be edited, all the comments could be removed
I don't even think the answer needs to be edited.
We had the same thing with answers to the cashier question, and there we deleted comments that were complaining that 'in my culture, this would not be a serious issue' > I think the reverse goes too
E.g. some people were of the opinion that smalltalk should be perfectly acceptable, even though OP specifically mentioned that it wasn't in theirs...
You can upvote to agree
You can write your own answer if you have experience with the culture that shows otherwise..
10:46 AM
hm I have a bigger contingent of flags today. Do you get more flags when you raised helpful flags previously?
Yep, to a max of 100
@Cashbee Yes. You get 1 flag per day per 10 helpful all time flags
To a max of 100 a day for both comments and posts, seperately
@Tinkeringbell but yes, I agree
I need just 1 more post flag :P
Oh wait, wrong link
That was the post flag I raised this morning, not the one that had been pending for weeks, that one is apparently handled :}
I got a notification last night that a 50 vote answer of mine I made 6 months wasn't good enough for IPS. Thanks for informing me of this oversight. I have now deleted that answer in order to maintain the quality of the site.
11:01 AM
@Snow It probably was good enough when you posted it, but expectations have risen. Thanks for helping, although it might have been even better if you'd taken time to improve instead of delete :)
It was a simple answer that doesn't really need more words to make it any more understandable. I have pretty much discontinued my participation here anyway.
11:32 AM
Anyone here from a 'nordic' country? Is that tag specific enough??? I think culture can differ amongst the countries listed?

Why are we still working with location tags anyways...
11:45 AM
because cultural differences ARE important
answer quality is too low for that to be noticable though
Oh yay, another 'make her'...
@RoryAlsop Hello there! How is your new job going?
Q: How do I tell my mom that I should manage my savings?

Tiago CaldeiraBackground I'm 18 and I live with my parents. I also have two younger sisters. Since I was younger until now nothing changed in terms of their parenting with me. I have to go to bed at X hours and many other things that takes out my autonomy. (it's kinda embarrasing have to end a conversation wi...

@Tinkeringbell At least it has more reasonable expectations.
@sphennings Oh?
It's still about influencing her behavior, instead of a problem with their approach
12:09 PM
How can I make her reduce her time spend in the game.
As opposed to how can I make her stop playing entirely.
Accidentally drop her device in the toilet
Sit on top of the phone and tell her you haven't seen it
See? It isn't an Interpersonal Skills problem
@ExtrovertedMainMan think this might be better suited to Parenting
Sit down with her and have an honest talk. use I-messages.
@Tinkeringbell I'm trying to write a comment to explain that as it's written it isn't an IPS question. Point them to the meta discussion that happened last night and suggest that they edit their qestion.
See? It can be an interpersonal question
12:12 PM
@Cashbee Intervention time
@Cashbee Like every other how can I talk about x question.
im not trying to make a point, i was just joking around ;)
@JAD Meh. OP should first clarify why they think they are capable of handling their own money, if they just flunk around their age like they did in the post, it'll get them nowhere
I already asked them what their arguments were because we're not here to brainstorm up possible arguments per the help center (link included). It's getting conveniently ignored
not relevant. All I said was that seeing as it is a child-parent relation, parenting might be their best bet
But you'd have to ask a mod there to come over and take a look (or one of their higher rep users). They know what they'd be expecting from such a question and tell us if we're planning on advising to migrate crap
12:19 PM
eh, it's not off-topic here, so I see no real reason to actively migrate it
It should be closed until it's actually asking more of a question than "How can I say x"?
Saying X isn't an interpersonal skill.
@Tinkeringbell But OP is looking for an interpersonal way to do thaT
sides, I'm interested in the addictive effects of mobile games because I know some of the science behind it
@Magisch Hold her at gunpoint while you make her drop the device in the toilet?
@Tinkeringbell arguably not IPS
@Tinkeringbell Do you have a solution that doesn't deprive their fiancee of their phone?
12:22 PM
@Tinkeringbell I mean ... I guess
That'll be my standard answer for 'how do I make this person do something'... use a gun and if that doesn't work, you can't
@sphennings sure, remove internet access
@sphennings Drop the router in the toilet
Burn the house down
@Tinkeringbell LOL
kill the fiancee
gets rid of the addiction as well
12:23 PM
nefarious magisch mode convince her to sign up for a restrictive data plan with minimum contract duration of 5+ years. Then "accidentally" break the wifi at home
Might I suggest first closing the question and getting the OP to edit it?
You might. But I'm just here to monitor the chatroom ;)
Do we have a good close reason for "how can I say x?" questions.
@sphennings No, just vtc as off-topic with a link to the help center?
2 hours later…
2:10 PM
1 message moved to trash
slow day....
@RichardU I've found that this time of day is usually pretty slow in here
2:28 PM
Q: How to check the veracity of a rumor about a relationship?

Hawker65A while ago, someone told me a rumour that stated that "either I wanted a relationship with a girl or she wanted a relationship with me". We were kind of close with that girl, I was not against a relationship but she did not know this and she might have been interested in me. We were part of gro...

@ExtrovertedMainMan Is there a detective.se?
> The older you get, the more you need to keep a fire extinguisher close to the cake.
@AJ heh, I should remember that one for my dad's birthday card this year ;)
> I used to wonder why Frisbees looked bigger the closer it came... Then it hit me!
@Catija one good example where early mod intervention can make a difference would be the case of the guy who called us a SJW cesspool
2:33 PM
> Ever tried getting rid of a boomerang? I keep trying to throw mine away, to no avail
@Tinkeringbell this might apply for some detective work: genealogy.stackexchange.com
@Magisch is that still up?
@JAD Oh yeah, definitely! Make sure you aren't family first, that'll prevent birth defects XD
@Magisch That was in chat, though - and any mod/user-with-enough-rep can deal with that (and it was originally on another site, not IPS).
@HDE226868 No I mean with the experience that made him write that
On TWP they do this a lot
@Tinkeringbell since when has that stopped people?
2:36 PM
By being really quick on moving comments to chat and locking them down early on questions where you just know trouble is brewing
I think it would be nice, but it would be one of those golden requirements they warn about in programming. Yes, it will have it's perks... I'd have liked it if there would have been a mod online when I last noticed someone being very abrasive on meta... If only it were because we can't make other people not react
@Magisch Okay . . . but how often does that happen?
And, again, we don't want the community to stay so reliant on us.
@HDE226868 Not that often. But when it happens we end up several meta posts and a futile chat discussion deep and someone badmouthing us to others
It'll end up in the chatroom with a request for everyone to keep out of it, which often has the negative side-effect of giving things more credibility and attention than it deserves...
@HDE226868 The community will always rely on the mods to do things only mods can
2:38 PM
@HDE226868 when it comes to moderating comments, there's not much we can do
Thats what they're for. Users moderate content, Moderators moderate content and users
@Magisch Which is my point. Disengagement. Stop the argument by refusing to participate.
@Magisch Eh, I think y'all do actually rely on us for a lot more than just mod-only things.
@Catija This works for me but not for anyone else who may think of starting an argument
@HDE226868 For example?
@JAD have you not read my answer? Three flags on a comment removes it. Fewer if it has a word the system flags as abusive.
2:39 PM
You can't expect everyone to back off. People hardly read meta, when things get interesting and controversial you can book on an argument starting
@Catija which gets progressively harder once the comments get upvotes
As I said though, it's not terribly important
But could help in getting this on the right track. Right now we're flailing a bit between how members action things and how they're supposed to work. It feels like a lot of people want this to be anydramaandjuicystories.stackexchange
I thought I was gonna bring it up again since the occasion arose in the meta post, but I'll leave it at that. Y'all know what you're doing
How does a mod fix that? I closed a really crappy question and it was almost immediately reopened and it now has +40 score.
I'm not sure
I think on TWP they just outright delete those
But that would be delegating off tasks to a mod that the community should fulfill
@Magisch the community can only immediately delete stuff if it's heavily downvoted... which isn't happening here either..
2:45 PM
The problem is we're fighting windmills going up against the HNQ bait
And from what Shog said we can't let this site turn into that lest it be closed
@Tinkeringbell old joke. :P
And then there's the people that don't like nitpicking, and just want to say 'oh, you poor thing, here's my brainstorm that'll magically fix your life'....
Q: How to tell to an overweight person that the climb will be to hard?

iFloReally hard to find a suitable title, if you find a better one, don't hesitate to edit. I don't want to be mean or anything and I don't want to go "Fat shaming" or things like that. Also, I'm not english native speaker so maybe excuse some terms I may use wrongly. Context With my SO and a coupl...

As I said, I'm not going to harp on about it, I know it's a sore spot
@Magisch Getting asked to weigh in on a meta post even when it's not directly relevant to moderation, for instance. Or, in the present case, essentially being told that question quality issues are our fault.
2:47 PM
@ExtrovertedMainMan geez, how do people write answers < 10 mins after the question is posted o:
@HDE226868 Well, in those cases you know who that's coming from... I think you should take that into account as well and don't compare me (and maybe others) to those people
@HDE226868 I think y'all need to get aligned what role you need to take in the quality process. I think I remember mods working more in that direction on TWP
@EmC Blame the mod for setting a bad example :P
@Tinkeringbell lol, it's basically the same thing I was going to write though, I guess I am just slow
Any examples of stuff where e.g. I rely to heavy on the mods?
2:49 PM
Way I see it, we have only a very narrow window of what this site can be successful on SE, so we might need mod help to get to that
@Tinkeringbell I'm not saying that encompasses everyone. Just more than just one or two people.
I'm ... not sure.
It feels to me there is a bunch of people with some idea of what direction to take moderation (as a whole, not just by diamond mods) on this site and are actively trying to hash it out on meta. But the problem is twofold:
not enough users frequent meta to be up to date or participate for the policies in decided in meta to be effective.
On the other hand is there a constant supply of bad questions bringing in people from the HNQ, giving us ample examples of what is not working right now, but also so much traffic along with it that it is hard to fight against it.
This together creates a pretty demotivating environment for users to actually try and get something done
@HDE226868 Yeah, and I'm saying I dislike the examples because they're either new users (sometimes on the autism spectrum as well), dissidents, or people that have shown a lack of understanding of how SE is supposed to work in the first place... I think THE community is trying whatever they can to keep things rolling, but it is either unappreciated or not working...
And the flipside of all of it is that we can't simply go with the flow because CMs have made it very clear that this site either works as IPS or closes as not IPS
2:52 PM
@Magisch Which is why I say it's time to write a few PSA's and have people stick with it. But I also have a feeling that were I to write them now, they'd be downvoted into oblivion
@Tinkeringbell PSA?
@AJ public service announcement
@Tinkeringbell well, at very least it needs to be something people can agree on
which immediately brings us to the problem that there is so little people active on meta
@Tinkeringbell I'm not talking about problematic users; I'm talking about normal, helpful users.
2:53 PM
Which is the hard part
@JAD and moderation.
@HDE226868 Haven't seen those doing that... But I'll keep an eye out
@AJ moderation isn't really the issue
I think there is enough people moderating if only there were one a line with eachother
I think the normal helpful users are doing their best. I see them leaving comments, closing questions, editing...
Posting on meta
the problem is that there is so much back and forth, that any attempt of moderation through the review queues is ineffective
2:55 PM
@Magisch I think the chance of the site closing is pretty low. If that's something that motivates you, fine. But I'd rather focus on fixing the site because I want it to be a better place than because there's a sword of Damocles hanging over my head.
@JAD doesn't this site give easy rep and privileges with that rep to users who really lack knowledge about how to use them the best? Bad reviews are examples of it.
^ That's also something to think about. This site is growing at an inordinately fast pace.
@Catija but how would you suggest fixing the site? Where to start? The community doesn't seem to be able to decide on whether a question is on-topic or not, whether it's to broad or not, whether an answer is an actual answer or not. There have been various attempts at creating policy on meta, but either they didn't get input or they did get input but it's not adhered to
A huge part of interpersonal skills is appropriately dealing with other people's shitty interpersonal skills. — coinbird 40 secs ago
#11732 coinbird (236 rep) | A: How to politely deflect questions about awkward scars? (score: 18) | posted 49 hours ago by baldPrussian (9009 rep)
And keeping everyone on the same page is somewhere between extremely difficult and somewhat impossible.
2:59 PM
Matched regex(es) ["offensive"]
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