The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Marvin

03:10

0

Q: Hilarious Juvenile Science Fiction space adventure from 1950s or 1960s

This was a laugh out loud funny space adventure novel for young adults with interconnected stories about a rather bumbling but lucky young space adventurer, possibly a cadet...Its opening chapter, as I recall, took place on an interstellar garbage scow (like the later TV show Quark). After being...

0

Q: Why did the Rebels oppose the Empire?

I got into an argument today about the role of the Rebel Alliance and the Empire in the Galactic Civil War. My opponent posits the Galactic Empire is not inherently evil, and the Rebels would just be terrorists from their point of view. She felt the oppression and fear of violence they were fight...

star-wars star-wars-legends

Marvin

03:57

0

Q: Why does InGen from Jurassic park limit themselves to reviving only mesozoic animals?

They brought back dinosaurs obviously, pterosaurs, even mosasaurs. Why not bring back extinct creatures from other eras of time like mammoths, saber tooths, terror birds, gorgonopsians,ect..? Really, there are so many cool creatures they are neglecting in favor of creating dangerous hybrids fo...

jurassic-park jurassic-world jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom the-lost-world-jurassic-park jurassic-park-iii

Marvin

05:54

0

Q: Who is on the radio talking to/guiding the Falcon when Ant-Man goes to Avengers' HQ to steal Pym's prototype?

When Scott Lang goes to the supposedly SHIELD base to steal Hank Pym's prototype of a signal decoy, he finds out that it is now an Avengers' building. Falcon arrives as soon as Scott lands on the top of the building. Scott Lang: Alright I’m on the roof of the target building. Hope van Dy...

marvel marvel-cinematic-universe ant-man-2015

Marvin

07:51

1

Q: Which character is this (red suit, white hood and cape, villainy-looking)?

I came across this guy while watching one of these nonsensical videos on YouTube with my nephew. I tried to find some clues and browsed through Marvel and DC lists, but cannot seem to find him. Any help would be appreciated, since 3yo are relentless in their pursuit of knowledge.

comics character-identification super-hero

Babel fish

08:51

0

Q: Rey's choice of lightsaber (spoilers)

As it was May 4th yesteday I thought id rewatch the Rise of Skywalker. And its still bugged me since it came out about Rey's lightsaber. Why does Rey Skywalker have a yellow lightsaber? Where has the yellow come from all of a sudden? Its not been in any of the films. What does it mean? Forgiv...

star-wars the-rise-of-skywalker

Rand al'Thor

11:05

Daily floof, 5/5/2020: cloudy with a chance of canines

Marvin

13:41

-1

Q: What would happen if the Emperor killed Luke on Death Star 2? Vader would try to get revenge, then what?

Vader would try to kill the Emperor, then what?

star-wars return-of-the-jedi

Spencer

So how does @BabelFish choose postings to display here from the other SE sites?

Napoleon Wilson

By tawags.

(Which means tags.)

Rand al'Thor

You can see the details here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/58631/…

Marvin

14:53

0

Q: Why was The Ancient One in the New York Sanctum?

I noticed a big plot hole in Avengers: Endgame, Hulk got the Time Stone from The Ancient One in The New York City Sanctum, but the Ancient One lives in the Chinese Sanctum. Why was she at the New York Sanctum?

marvel marvel-cinematic-universe avengers-endgame

Marvin

15:37

0

Q: Book about a boy born on spaceship who befriends some alien bugs when they get to the destination planet

My apologies but details are a little fuzzy, I read it when I was in forth or fifth grade and I'm 21 now. The cover had an illustration of the boy. From what I remember it was about this boy whose parents were scientists and were on a spaceship to a different planet. The boy was born and raised ...

story-identification aliens childrens-novel

Spencer

15:47

I'm kind of surprised that it's not trying to roll up fantasy or [tag: science-fiction] tags from those sites.

Arrrgh, an unwanted space.

Napoleon Wilson

Uh...it does?

(Though, it's probably not all to useful anyway.)

TheLethalCarrot

> Newest questions tagged science-fiction or fantasy - Movies & TV Stack Exchange posted by Feeds

Doesn't help though, questions just aren't really tagged with genre tags

Marvin

16:38

1

Q: How can so many different species live in the same temperature aboard the same ship?

In Star Trek, we see humans, Vulcans, Betazoids, Orionids, Cardassians, Klingons, Remans, Benzites, and many more unidentified or rarely-seen species. All of the species mentioned above live on different planets. Thus, the environments they live in would be different, since no two planets are the...

star-trek

Marvin

17:48

1

Q: Biologist tries to clone dead wife

I remember a movie in which a biologist/scientist tries to bring his wife back to life after she dies in a tragic fire accident at her studio (she was an artist). He has a junior colleague who helps him (after being reluctant earlier). He successfully clones his wife from her ashes which he kep...

story-identification biology

Napoleon Wilson

Hui, that's some quick upvotes, Batman! Picked a less controversial spokesperson this time? ;-)

Mithical

*rolls eyes* Still includes the IMO nonsensical complaint about "moderators from other stacks". MODS ARE USERS TOO, Y'ALL.

Slartibartfast

6

Q: Inactive Moderators (Again) and Mos Eisley

Null - What a great answer on what it's like to moderate at SFF! I somehow missed it when you originally wrote it - so even though it's been a while, I have a couple comments. I've shared before that I was a moderator for a very large Harry Potter forum-based website for five years, and I only b...

discussion

Mithical

But... I was kinda hoping we had left the Mos discussion in the past where it belongs.

Napoleon Wilson

It really doesn't quite fit into the question. It might be some reasonable commentary, but I'm not sure what it's got to do with the moderator question.

Mithical

17:59

Yep. I could even reasonably get behind a complaint about inactive moderators who really don't visit the site, but not when it's lumped in together with other things like that.

Napoleon Wilson

It might ultimately do the question's possibly valid concerns a disservice, together with those really weird comments that are just....yeah...

But well, there's likely not much to come from it anyway. The moderators will be all "everything's alright" and the others all "you're making excuses". Short of SE doing some kind of automatic inactivity investigation it will just rehash the whole thing.

Mithical

SE does do an automatic check-in with moderators who have been inactive for six months.

Napoleon Wilson

The thing has been had so often by now that the prejudices on both sides are entrenched. Neither can the moderators shake the feeling that the Mosers just want to fill the moderator places with "one of their own", nor can those shake the feeling that the moderators are just making excuses for "one of their own".

Mithical

Frankly I find it ridiculous. Moderation on SFF happens ridiculously quickly (hello Jen and TLC) and flags don't sit for days pretty much ever, so even if some of the mods aren't currently very active it doesn't matter from a site curation perspective.

So... what's the point?

I have never gotten a satisfactory answer on that.

Napoleon Wilson

Yeah, while I share some of the concerns about moderator inactivity, I don't quite support the purported idea that those places need to be filled immediately in order to keep the site running.

But I tend to agree that there's not much of a point for a user to have a moderator position he doesn't visit for half a year.

If the site only has 3 moderators practically (I made that number up as an example), you could as well just make that "official".

But there's no need to just stock it up to 5 again if that isn't necessary.

Jenayah

18:17

@Mithical *whistles*

Mithical

18:29

In any case, now that the Mos stuff was removed, I've retracted my downvote.

Slytherincess

For the record, I don't have "one of my own" in mind - I just think it's a problem. SFF is a big site (not as big as SE or SO, of course, but big for one of the tangential sites) and deserves full moderation. That's all. I would expect an election would be held if moderator spaces became available.

Mithical

Can you point to any examples of moderation being insufficient in the current state?

6

Jenayah

^

this

Slytherincess

No. I realize not everyone is going to agree with me that having a working moderation team is a good thing. Or necessary.

Mithical

Having a working moderation team is absolutely necessary.

I just don't consider the current one to not work.

Jenayah

18:43

while I'm not big on leaving people with access to powers they don't use anymore (and are quite heavy, PII and all), I don't see them as taking space wrongfully

Mithical

While I might disagree with the current team and their actions in some cases, it would be a disservice to them to assert that they're doing an objectively insufficient job of moderating the site.

Jenayah

meh, wrong phrasing. It's not them not using it, it's them leaving the site as a whole; a mod who'd be still active as a user but less as a mod, I'd see the matter differently

Slytherincess

I guess we just see it differently. While our current active mods are doing a fine job, how much extra time might they have to be spending because that extra support isn't there? You might be fine with that, because you're not the one doing all the work, but are they? (I mean the collective you)

Jenayah

Why don't you ask that instead of stirring the old "some mods are inactive" chorus again?

Mithical

If they feel that they're spending too much time moderating and that they need an extra pair of hands, I'm pretty sure they know how to say that to the CMs.

In any case, Rand evidently has enough time to go pick up another diamond, so I doubt that's a problem. ;)

Slytherincess

18:49

And the CMs would do what?

Mithical

Schedule an election.

Slytherincess

Rand is a machine ;)

Jenayah

FWIW I'm pretty sure there was a comment/answer by either Rand or Null saying they weren't overloaded, and anyway they're probably mature enough to let the relevant people know if they are

How 'bout we stop going in circles and let that discussion on the side until one of them chimes in, if they choose to? It's not really accomplishing anything to speculate on whether they're extra busy or not.

Slytherincess

Well, there is a specific way to remove inactive moderators - I linked to it on my post. And it's not just complaining to the CMs. If only it were that easy!

Rand al'Thor

@Slytherincess beep

Slytherincess

18:55

Should Mithical and Napoleon stopped their conversation on the same topic? I'll put it aside, but this would be the appropriate place to discuss it.

Hey Rand :)

Rand al'Thor

(catching up)

Marvin

0

Q: Why did the droid's escape pod land so near to Mos Eisley?

The escape pod ejected from the Tantive IV landed pretty close to where Luke and Obi-Wan were living, within a day or two travel at low speed from each of them. Was this a coincidence or the result of some sort of deliberate action, for example, Leia telling R2-D2 where to land or as a result of...

star-wars a-new-hope

Null

Oh boy.

4

Slytherincess

Sorry :|

Null

No need to apologize. Just...oh boy.

Rand al'Thor

19:01

@Slytherincess Yes. This has come up a couple of times before on meta, last year I think, and the consensus from mods was that we aren't feeling overloaded or unsupported. All the concern was coming from non-mod users.

Null

I've actually been following this for the last half hour or so, but I was curious what everyone would say before I chimed in.

Rand al'Thor

The main thing that's changed since then is that Kevin (along with many other mods across the network) went on strike over SE company decisions. Null and I also did, but we publicly returned to moderation after a few weeks.

Slytherincess

I hope you know that I don't mean to speak for either you or Rand. It's just that SE gives us five mods - shouldn't we have that many? Mods that do their job, that is. And, Rand, I know you are really good at modding and likely don't feel overworked.

Mithical

> It's just that SE gives us five mods - shouldn't we have that many?

The number of mods is decided based on how many are needed.

Slytherincess

Yes, I'm aware the strike.

*of

Null

19:04

@Slytherincess I think it's fair for the community to wonder whether or not we have enough moderators given the fact that one is still on strike (Kevin) and several don't seem to have much activity. That said...

The real metric is whether or not the site is being moderated well enough (mods handle flags and issues quickly, etc.), and I don't think anything has really changed on that front. The community may think otherwise, but at least from my perspective and from the statistics I can see (e.g. flag handling times) the team has continued to work effectively (except during the period when Rand and I were also on strike).

Slytherincess

Should inactive mods be allowed to retain their diamonds, though? Doesn't that allow them access to parts of the site that regular users can't see?

Mithical

I believe you linked to the canonical MSE post about that...

TheLethalCarrot

The inactive removal process is fundamentally broken. People can very easily bypass it for years...

Null

There seems to be a persistent belief that the site has N moderator positions and that inactive mods are taking up those positions which could be filled by more active users. That's not the case. The site should have as many moderators as necessary -- whether that's 2, 3, 5, 10, or whatever. If there aren't enough moderators then the mod team will probably know it and can contact the CMs to schedule an election. If there are more than enough moderators then there's not really a problem.

Slytherincess

@Mithical - I did not memorize that post. I'm asking because I'm not clear on it.

Null

19:12

@Slytherincess I'm not opposed to inactive moderators losing their diamonds, but there is a process for doing that already (provided there are enough CMs to do that on schedule).

Jenayah

> If there are more than enough moderators then there's not really a problem.

I'd say there isn't if all are (moderately) active, but if they're not, I can't shake the feeling of it being a partly unmonitored door to PII and other powers.

DavidW

I've been lurking, but I'd like to point out that enough moderators is not the same as "more than enough moderators." Where's Null's hot-swappable spare?

TheLethalCarrot

@Null I think my feelings on this have been clear over the years but my motivations behind it have never been to get an election. It’s more down to mods being out of touch and having access to things they probably shouldn’t have if they’re not moderating anymore

2

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah That might be a reasonable concern, but...that very same danger exists with highly active moderators already. What differentiates an active from an inactive moderator with regards to PII access?

Mithical

@DavidW What, Null isn't hot enough for you and you want to replace him? Tough crowd...

Napoleon Wilson

19:16

In fact the inactive moderator is less likely to mess around with your PII.

Null

@Jenayah The system logs every instance in which a moderator accesses PII. It would be even easier for a CM or SE employee to check for abuse of PII access by an inactive moderator since said mod has less activity. That said, I understand the gist of your concern and I'm not opposed to inactive moderators losing their mod privileges.

DavidW

@Mithical Well, you know, in comparison to Rand...

Jenayah

@NapoleonWilson I suck at metaphors, so fortunately Skooba had one:

> If you quit your job in the real world, you don't get to keep the keys to the office!

Well they didn't quit, but if I don't show up for some months at my office, they're going to disable my key card, simple as that.

The security office will still be open to make me a new one if I show back up with an explanation, but in the meantime, no unnecessary privs when they're not needed.

Napoleon Wilson

That is based on actively quitting your job (or being "sorry to see you go"ed). If you just do a lackluster job, I'd expect your employer to first do that before taking away your keys. But not for the simple reason of having access to the office, that'd be kind of backwards, rather than for the reason of not doing your job.

Jenayah

@NapoleonWilson the inactive mod yes, someone gaining access to their account... eh.

Null

19:20

@TheLethalCarrot So, hypothetically, you'd be fine if the less active moderators were removed without an election, and we were left with only 2-3 moderators?

Napoleon Wilson

@Jenayah Again, you can do that with every other moderator.

Marvin

0

Q: What do these sentences in the "The Evil Within" intro mean?

40s: Joseph says: "Some kind of scandal." I did not get what he means. Also, 47s: Joseph says: "It's a possibility. I believe the record were sealed" What this means exactly? Is he holding a diary? The records are on the diary?

video-games the-evil-within

0

Q: Where does the mustache go during the transformation?

In the past late 2000s/early 2010s, the villainous character of Red Hulk was brought to the Marvel comics universe, to mixed reception. Later on, it was revealed that this character was and man with an impressive moustache. When Red Hulk was introduced, he had no moustache, and in various app...

marvel the-incredible-hulk

Jenayah

It's more of a general principle than a SFF-specific one. Attacks on accounts on SFF are probably not that frequent. In other businesses, they are. It adds a layer of security which doesn't actively harm anyone and doesn't involve more human work (=potential mistakes). What's not to take?

DavidW

@NapoleonWilson And similarly, a more active moderator is likely to have a larger attack surface. (As in, persistent log-ins on more devices, etc.)

TheLethalCarrot

@Null yes. The mods we have clearly do a good job, even if I have some qualms over visibility, but if some are inactive and not coming back then I think removal should be an option.

Jenayah

19:23

@NapoleonWilson true, but dormant accounts sound more at risk

Napoleon Wilson

You could make the argument that a less active moderator might not realize his account is abused. But I haven't seen that argument yet, rather than just that PII is dangerous, which, yeah, it kinda is.

Null

@TheLethalCarrot Removal is an option and there is a documented process for it. None of the moderators on SFF have hit the time-based thresholds to start that process yet.

Skooba

@TheLethalCarrot exactly, if you quit a job you dont keep the keys to the office

Jenayah

@NapoleonWilson that's what I had in mind, yes

Slytherincess

I agree with @Jenayah regarding diamond security.

Skooba

19:27

oh see Jenayah already quoted that too

Slytherincess

And with @Skooba

TheLethalCarrot

@Null like I said I think the process is broken and the JNat even states it has its flaws.

Jenayah

all in all though I don't hink anyone vhemently disagrees that inactive mods may have their diamond removed under a combination of circumstances (inactivity, etc). Well, there's even an existing (if broken) process for it, so

Napoleon Wilson

@Skooba Provided you actually quit it and don't just slack off at work.

Skooba

@Null speaking for myself here, yes. but are you telling me that a site that has the same (plus minus) the same activity needs only half the staff it used to.

Slytherincess

19:29

At my job, not showing up for nine months definitely constitutes quitting.

Skooba

So my question is then did we have unnecessary elections in the first place?

Null

@TheLethalCarrot Time will tell if that process proves to be broken (SE has certainly reduced the number of CMs available to carry it out), but so far that process has not needed to start for SFF.

Skooba

is it coincidence that our most recent elected mods are our most active

Napoleon Wilson

@Slytherincess I'd assume there needs to be some kind of process to make it official to the bureaucratic system that you're genuinely not working there anymore.

Jenayah

@Skooba I wasn't there then, but weren't they needed back in 2016? (it was 2016 right?)

Skooba

19:30

might there have been inactivity from the previous three even then!

Mithical

@Jenayah Yes.

(On both counts.)

TheLethalCarrot

@Null taking Thad as an example from a public viewpoint it very clearly seems to be broken

Jenayah

well, there's Skooba's answer then.

Slytherincess

@NapoleonWilson - no, not really.

Napoleon Wilson

Oh, well, US, granted. ;-)

Slytherincess

19:31

Yep! :)

Mithical

It is worth remembering that SFF did have some rather... unusual events surrounding the last couple elections.

Jenayah

No shit *rolls eyes*

Skooba

@Jenayah yeah i was getting to the answer myself, typing too slow i guess lol

Slytherincess

What happened at the last elections?

Skooba

I know some of things in 2016 election but 2015 one was before my time

Mithical

19:33

Not worth going over every event, I'm just saying that since there were rather extenuating circumstances that's had an effect even to today on the activity and participation of moderators on the site.

Slytherincess

Would someone else clue me in regarding prior elections?

Mithical

Especially the reasons for the 2016 election in the first place and what happened as a result of the 2016 elections themselves (Keen leaving, for instance).

Null

@Skooba The only major change since the last election and the last time was discussed this is that Kevin went on strike. From the statistics available to me, we are performing at the same level as the last time we shared statistics.

@TheLethalCarrot I can see that he has not yet hit the time point at which the process starts.

Skooba

@Slytherincess a new network rules was established after our 2016 election that prevents a user being nominated/elected if they have been suspended within the past year. take from that what you will

@Null well then we have too many moderators

Slytherincess

Oh, okay. I think I knew that, actually.

Mithical

19:37

@Skooba I was more referring to why the 2016 election was necessary, but yeah, that whole thing also.

Skooba

I think 2015 is where the concerns over PII came from?

TheLethalCarrot

@Null and that’s my very argument

Skooba

@Mithical well from an outsiders perspective it seems it was needed because the current team couldn't handle the job, they were already ghosting the site back then

Mithical

...ha.

Skooba

their public activity proves it, but as Sly put it we get the same BS about "behind the scenes"

Null

19:39

@Skooba ...we have too many moderators because we're handling flags too quickly? We need to get rid of moderators until our stats are terrible?

Skooba

@Null no we just have dead weight.

Null

@TheLethalCarrot You can certainly argue that the process as it exists today waits too long, but that's a network-wide discussion and not really related to SFF in particular.

Skooba

We used to actually see more than 2 moderators

Mithical

@Skooba It was more because one of most active SFF moderators was forced to resign for harassment and abuse of mod powers, leaving a need for an election to pick up that slack. That's still got some repercussions today.

2

DavidW

I don't have a firm opinion one way or the other, but out of curiosity, would @Null be able to carry everything if Rand were felled by Covid for a couple of weeks? Or vice versa?

Skooba

19:42

@Mithical but with 3 moderators that shouldn't have been a problem since the claim currently is only 2 are needed to handle the sites moderation volume

Jenayah

2018's moderation volume.

And 2019-2020's, presumably

Skooba

the moderator having to resign was a separate issue

Jenayah

yes?

Skooba

haha got me in the edits

Jenayah

The point isn't to pinpoint an exact year, it's just to say that the required moderation volume changed over time

oh, sorry

Null

19:45

@DavidW Yes. The site survived the month during which all of the most active moderators were on strike, and it would fare much better with at least one active mod. And if the worry is that we don't have enough active moderators then the solution is most definitely not to get rid of the less active moderators who might be able to step up while another moderator is temporarily unavailable.

2

DavidW

That makes sense, thanks

Skooba

@Jenayah but i don't think it has. general site activity has remained consistent pretty much forever it seems. so did our new users suddenly starting posting high quality content on a more regular basis? or more open ended what changed that now only 2 moderators are needed for what 5 used to be needed for?

Slytherincess

But does it make sense to expect an inactive mod to step up in a pinch? I mean, Thaddeus hasn't executed a modly duty in nine months.

DavidW

Heh. "modly" reads as "moldy."

Jenayah

@Skooba that kind of moderation (content quality) is done by the communitty, not the mods

Skooba

19:49

is it because more trusted users are really attacking the review queues and editing?

have people stopped using custom flag that require moderator attention?

Slytherincess

Thaddeus doesn't even list SFF on his "I am the great answer man" profile on Twitter! :))

3

Null

@Slytherincess It hasn't been nine months. It has been less than than six months, at which point the mod removal process begins (I can see the time he handled his last flag).

Mithical

This conversation always seems to boil down to BUT THADDEUS.

Slytherincess

@Null - Noted.

Jenayah

I don't think Twiitter bios should be taken into account when dealing with SFF acounts

Null

19:52

@Jenayah Yes, do not underestimate the community's ability to help with moderation.

Napoleon Wilson

@Mithical Naturally, though.

Jenayah

Well, on "trivial" matters like these. Were that about racism, pedopornography or some kind of other shit, yes, it should definitely be taken into account

@Null virtual high five!

Slytherincess

@Null - can you tell me how long it's been, so I can correct my post, or is that protected information?

@Jenayah - I was kidding re: Twitter. Seriously.

Jenayah

Does it even matter that much if it's 2 weeks, or 5 months and a half? Isn't this more about frequency than latest delay?

@Slytherincess k

Null

@Slytherincess I'm not allowed to release that information. I can only discuss my own statistics, so you'd have to ask Thaddeus to give you that information.

Slytherincess

19:56

Okay.

Null

That'd be a good excuse to try to get him to join the conversation, though...

TheLethalCarrot

@Null well yeah I’m not having it as an SFF discussion just using the SFF example of how I believe it’s broken

@Null survived yes, worked well moderator -wise? I would argue it certainly didn’t

Skooba

@Mithical I say but all three of them, Kevin seems to be less publicly active than Thaddeus

Null

@TheLethalCarrot It's broken because the delay is too long? How long of a delay would you use?

TheLethalCarrot

@Mithical he’s the extreme example on SFF so it’s an easy option to make a point

Jenayah

20:01

@TheLethalCarrot "moderation didn't go so well when there weren't any moderators" isn't really an argument, though. It's a logical fact. Obviously if no one with "da powers" can handle the stuff that needs da powers, stuff isn't going to be handled

TheLethalCarrot

@Null it’s broken because it approaches things from the wrong angle. One action every X time period doesn’t work. You need to look at activity over time period

@Jenayah there were two moderators still. That’s more than enough to do more than one hour a week. Which as I remember was how often mod only flags were handled during that period. There were moderators so your argument there doesn’t work...

Jenayah

@TheLethalCarrot I think even that is flawed. Some may put in less activity because other mods have more time to deal with stuff, and then do. I don't know mods' guidelines on this, but I don't think "make sure to leave enough stuff for other mods to mod, when said stuff does need moding" is one of them.

TheLethalCarrot

Sure it’s still flawed but it works better than the current system

in the current system someone could hypothetically only log in every 2-3 months and take one action and carry on unnoticed

Jenayah

You can't really pull up a metric. I'd say it's more down to the other mods really. They're supposed to be mature folks in a team, right? It's not ditching someone or pulling a dick move on them to say "well, TBH, user12345 isn't really needed as part of the team" (in the inactivity case)

@TheLethalCarrot I thought the whole point was that they were considered so inactive that they didn't really "count" as available mods? You're losing me here

TheLethalCarrot

To be honest there shouldn’t be a system or even it being down to the others mods. Ideally if a mod no longer wanted to be one or no longer had the time or... etc.
they would just step down.

Null

20:09

@TheLethalCarrot In an ideal world I suppose you'd have a CM look over each moderator's activity over long time periods, but there aren't enough CMs to do that for the hundreds of moderators across the network (especially since SE is firing CMs). Hence a metric that a computer can easily be programmed to ping a CM to look at a particular moderator.

Jenayah

TLC, you won't get anywhere in life if you design your stuff by expecting everyone using it to be reasonable :-)

TheLethalCarrot

@Jenayah in that time period flags were only handled at a certain time of day when only one was online.

@Jenayah oh I know that!

Jenayah

@TheLethalCarrot m'kay

TheLethalCarrot

@Null oh yeah I’m aware. The metric just doesn’t work as it is at the moment in my opinion

Jenayah

then again, pull up a metric that can't be abused one way or another

they'll make a new Nobel Prize category for you

Null

20:12

@Jenayah I agree. The other mods on a team can bring up an issue with the CMs, whether for inactivity or really anything. That's a lot more flexible that trying to come up with metric(s) that someone could be careful to avoid.

Jenayah

Yeah, well, as said above it should really be down to human discussion, but that's hard to do when the number of people getting paid to handle said discussions decreases abruptly

Null

@TheLethalCarrot It was a case of (quoting myself from earlier) using "less active moderators who might be able to step up while another moderator is temporarily unavailable".

Jenayah

So the implication is that they wouldn't have stepped up had things gone the way they usually went?

TheLethalCarrot

@Null is there in your opinion an inactivity issue to be brought up then? Because from an outside perspective there certainly is. Take Thad for example, shocker, who only appears to show up every 2-3 months for 1 day then disappears again. Is that an issue or not mod wise?

Null

@Jenayah The mod team had a discussion about the fact that over half the team was going on strike, and one of the mods put some extra effort to handle flags during that time period.

Jenayah

20:18

'k

Out of curiosity, the mod team has ways to contact the others outside the SE platform, right?

Not in an SE-mod-guideline-policy manner, more like in a "we've given each other our Discord IDs" manner.

Null

@TheLethalCarrot What constitutes an "inactivity issue"? Is inactivity an issue in itself, or is it only a problem if flags aren't being handled quickly enough or the like? To me it is the latter, and statistically there is no issue.

TheLethalCarrot

The former, but then we’re back to the beginning of the discussion again

Skooba

dead weight shouldn't be left around to fester, or worse come back a zombie.

2

Null

@Jenayah Yes, though that would probably only be in an emergency. We can generally contact the other moderators from within the network, which has the advantage of being visible to all the other site mods and CMs.

Jenayah

ok, thanks

Null

20:24

@TheLethalCarrot So what, precisely, is the issue of inactivity? PII access? Taking up "someone else's spot"? Something else?

Skooba

being so out of touch with the meta that if you do come back you actually make things worse

TheLethalCarrot

Out of touch, PII, spot if we need the full 5

Mithical

I feel like an "explain it like I'm 5" sort of thing might be helpful here.

Jenayah

first we've got to define what should be explained...

Mithical

(The above is not snark or sarcastic. You accept all terms and conditions and sacrifices to Cookie Monster.)

Jenayah

20:27

"The whole thing" -> VTC Too Broad

Mithical

@Jenayah "What exactly are the problems with inactive moderators having diamonds?"

TheLethalCarrot

And it makes me uneasy for someone with full mod powers having them when they don’t use them. The ability to come in and do stuff single handedly, or complete actions, that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to do, especially when they haven’t been around for months/years, just shouldn’t be possible

2

Jenayah

@Mithical supposedly and hopefully finite list, suitable

TheLethalCarrot

There’s also things mods can do more of, in my opinion, site promotion wise. Arqade’s mods have been doing a good job of that recently. More mods means time to do those extra things

3

and yes normal users can do that, but mods have more say/sway over that stuff when SE is meeded

Jenayah

what did Arqade mods do that required SE action?

I'm aware of the Screenshot weekly context for instance but apart from putting some status-review on meta, for stuff which IIRC is quite Arqade-specific, I haven't spotted it

but you're way more active on Arqade than I am hence the question

Null

20:35

@TheLethalCarrot We don't need 5 fully active moderators, and I think we've discussed that PII is pretty much just as much of an issue for active as inactive moderators. The only problem I see with being "out of touch" is if a mod is unaware of site-specific policies, but then again an "out of touch" mod may be more dispassionate and better able to objectively judge a situation.

TheLethalCarrot

Only if they know that of course though

@Jenayah that’s the majority of it. But generally just being community leaders really. Engaging with the community for what they want to discusss, re-address etc. Trying promotion things. Escalating to SE. But I’m not too active there, I browse occasionally and try to keep up to date with what’s going on

Reinstate Then Re-Dimiss Heyer

You may not need 5. But 2 is insufficient.

2

Rand al'Thor

Sorry, I was in a call. Now gotta catch up on the conversation again.

Jenayah

@ReinstateThenRe-DimissHeyer that's thin.

2 hours ago, by Mithical

Can you point to any examples of moderation being insufficient in the current state?

See the whole discussion starting here and elaborate a bit, maybe?

Reinstate Then Re-Dimiss Heyer

20:51

When it comes down to it, the site has 5 spaces because more are needed as more drop off without a word.

Rand al'Thor

@Skooba Well, exactly: that suggests the last elections weren't unnecessary. (I can't see statistics of former mods, but I suspect that Keen and Richard were the most active mods in 2015.)

Marvin

1

Q: Tring to find a short story concerning two mathematicians and "dark numbers"

I think I read this short story 20, 30 years ago. The story concerns two mathematicians in a dark dystopian future. The one is struggling with some project, and can't figure out how to get the thing done; his friend gives him some advice, involving the use of the forbidden "dark numbers", which ...

story-identification short-stories dystopia mathematics

Rand al'Thor

@Slytherincess Second-to-last election was 2015, when Richard and Thaddeus were elected. After Richard was demodded / stepped down, there was the 2016 election, with a lot of drama over my nomination and high-profile users deleting their accounts. So yeah, SFF has a bad record on elections :-P

Slytherincess

Oh, I remember that, yes.

Rand al'Thor

@Slytherincess The less active mods did become more active during that month when the more active ones were on strike.

Skooba

20:59

@Randal'Thor kind of my point, the inactive moderators were the need for elections, but if the argument is the inactive moderators are actually active then there shouldn't have been need for the election. Because as we see it only takes 2 full time mods and maybe 1 slack filler.

Slytherincess

Define "less active" @Randal'Thor

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