The APL Orchard

Adám

21:04

I remember writing sin⁻¹(abs(sin(x and stuff like that.

@0xACE Well, that's Even←{⍵/⍨0=2|⍵}

I've though about assigning a keyboard combination for <Home>(<End>)

0xACE

i have a hotkey for reformatting foo bar baz to: foo(bar, baz) // though it also takes optional commas, but then it requires commas on each argument

dzaima

@Adám or maybe <shift>+<home> ( <right> <right>

Adám

It might be nice if typing an unpaired ) (anywhere but at the beginning of a line) inserted a ( at the far left.

'LL' '(' 'RL' ')'⎕PFKEY 4 works under Windows; makes F4 do <Home>(<End>)

dzaima

@Adám my android app has a button for that (that also handles putting the parenthesis inside a dfn (but apparently not multiple statements :| ))

Adám

@dzaima Once parens can have diamonds, it doesn't make sense to handle it anyway. Is that the …) button?

dzaima

21:11

@Adám it's probably what you still want though; yes, it's ...)

Adám

^ does the trick under RIDE.

dzaima

@dzaima (oh right, that idea was completely stolen from calculator++)

0xACE

that seems to () the entire line... but i can figure out how ot make it ) from where the cursor is

Haha

Adám

@0xACE Oh. Maybe it'll work to select to the beginning of the line, delete that, type ( then paste. Let me try…

0xACE

wouldn't that hijack the clipboard?

i just used: )<LL>(

Adám

21:16

@0xACE But then you end up at the far left.

GreenSaguaro

OK, my first attempt at solving a problem in APL. The problem I chose is finding the first character that is duplicate in a string. Now that I have the problem solved, I would like feedback (as I am a total beginner) as to whether I am doing something the hard way:
```
CountChars←{u←∪⍵ ⋄ s←⍵ ⋄ 2(≢u)⍴u,{+/s∊⍵}¨u}
FirstDup←{1↑(⍵[2;]>1)/⍵[1;]}
FindFirstDup←FirstDup∘CountChars
```
Then:
```
FindFirstDup 'the amazing thing'
```

Adám

@GreenSaguaro Put your code in a separate message, and press Ctrl+K before Enter.

GreenSaguaro

OK, will do

dzaima

@Adám you don't need to delete+paste - when something's selected, ( will just wrap the selected thing

Adám

You can edit your message (press Up)

@dzaima In RIDE?

rak1507

21:17

@GreenSaguaro have you seen ≠?

dzaima

@Adám yeah

Adám

@dzaima Oh wow, TIL.

GreenSaguaro

CountChars←{u←∪⍵ ⋄ s←⍵ ⋄ 2(≢u)⍴u,{+/s∊⍵}¨u}
FirstDup←{1↑(⍵[2;]>1)/⍵[1;]}
FindFirstDup←FirstDup∘CountChars

Adám

Thank you, that's easier to read.

dzaima

@dzaima (apparently not from the keyboard shortcut thing though)

Adám

21:19

@GreenSaguaro OK, so maybe I can show you a different approach?

GreenSaguaro

@Adám Sure

rak1507

@Adám the link for ≠Y is broken on aplcart, for some reason it is 1atest not latest

Adám

@rak1507 Thanks. Fixed.

@GreenSaguaro Here:

      {{≢⍵}⌸⍵}'the amazing thing'
2 2 1 2 2 1 1 2 2 2
      {2≤{≢⍵}⌸⍵}'the amazing thing'
1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 1
      {⍸2≤{≢⍵}⌸⍵}'the amazing thing'
1 2 4 5 8 9 10
      {⊃⍸2≤{≢⍵}⌸⍵}'the amazing thing'
1
      {⍵[⊃⍸2≤{≢⍵}⌸⍵]}'the amazing thing'
t

@GreenSaguaro rak1507 mentioned ≠:

      ≠'the amazing thing'
1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
      ~≠'the amazing thing'
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1
      {⍵/⍨~≠⍵}'the amazing thing'
a thing
      {⍵∊⍵/⍨~≠⍵}'the amazing thing'
1 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
      {⍵[⊃⍸⍵∊⍵/⍨~≠⍵]}'the amazing thing'
t

GreenSaguaro

@Adám On tryapl.org, from the hover hint, it is not exactly clear what ⌸ does. Can you explain that one?

⌸

Adám

@GreenSaguaro I once gave a lesson on it.

There's a lot of jargon in what I write there. You can look up all the unfamilliar terms on apl.wiki

@GreenSaguaro Also, on TryAPL's Primer, you can click on a glyph to get some example uses, and you can type ]help ⌸ to open the full documentation in a different tab.

GreenSaguaro

21:32

@Adám Cool thank you. I can work through your examples fairly simply as long as I can read docs for a given glyph.

Oh wow! ..I didn't know that I can do that

rak1507

I still wish tryapl had the docs ride + the windows ide have on hover

GreenSaguaro

@rak1507 And thank you for mentioning the monadic not equals ...I will have to look at the docs to understand what that is doing

rak1507

@Adám bit overcomplicated no? {⊃⍵/⍨~≠⍵} does the trick

Adám

@rak1507 That's exactly what you get when clicking. Is it the lack of hover-to-float-popup that bothers you?

rak1507

@Adám when I click on it it just types the symbol

Adám

21:34

@rak1507 Sure, but thought [⊃⍸ would be easier to understand.

@rak1507 On the Primer.

rak1507

oh right, didn't know about that, that's good

I still think being able to hover over symbols and see definitions is super useful as a newbie

Adám

We got rid of the old hover-to-reveal because it was notoriously finicky and to be more inclusive of touch devices.

GreenSaguaro

Wow ...the ]help (glyph) worked great. I had NO IDEA from the hover tip that monadic not equals was a unique mask

Adám

I find that both RIDE's and the IDE's language bar tips end up obscuring my view a lot.

@GreenSaguaro Oh dear, I see now that it wasn't updated. I'll fix that. Thank you!

rak1507

@GreenSaguaro this is what you get if you hover over it locally

Adám

21:37

Yes, and in RIDE too, but not on TryAPL.

rak1507

yes

Adám

Huh, and on the stand-alone browser language bar too. Just not TryAPL.

rak1507

and on janiczek.github.io/tryapl-elm

Adám

Because that derives from the the browser language bar.

rak1507

yeah

Adám

21:41

@rak1507 Maybe we should advertise the Primer a little on the Intro page?

Like where it says

rak1507

maybe

Adám

> Move to the Learn tab and get started!

rak1507

yep

Adám

It could say

> Move to the Learn tab and get started or visit the Primer tab to explore on your own!

rak1507

yeah, that's definitely an improvement

RGS

22:17

@0xACE I've been working on the final videos :) If you have any sort of feedback on what you have watched, please do let me know

@rak1507 I'll take that also as a compliment! Which ones? And the thing is, I don't really know how/where :P

0xACE

RGS Great :D, honestly majority of the videos were fine as is. but I think there were 2 videos where you implemented/talked about algorithms that were completely unfamiliar to me as a listener. I think I need to research the problems first before i give you feedback. And i'll try to write notes from now on... But really, you are doing great

rak1507

@RGS all, and here/dyalog website/twitter/whatever

0xACE

(honestly the biggest issue is probably me looking at the videos while outdoors. I only have access to a phone and using RIDE from it is a bit cumbersome...)

RGS

@0xACE oh wow, that is some hardcore commitment

(Wasn't there a "safe executor" logo somewhere?)

Adám

@RGS github.com/abrudz/dyalog-safe-exec/blob/master/logo.svg#

RGS

22:25

Your reply looks weird but I found one in your GH repo

Adám

@RGS Why?

RGS

@Adám potential twitter user logo for the bot :P

Adám

I don't think the fact that it is sandboxed is very interesting. I'd use this guy's profile pic.

RGS

I think I agree :P

Adám

22:49

Aha, ShapeCatcher has a simple API.

dzaima

@Adám you probably don't want to spam it with every character you type though

Adám

No :-(

RGS

Alright, alright, I'll finish the neural nets series

And then I'll do one on CNNs

And one of you can take that and implement a CNN that recognises the APL glyphs :P

Adám

I'm curious how that will fare compared to the tech ShapeCatcher is using.

RGS

23:16

twitter.com/rojergs/status/1407114811624808450

How are we going to fix the monospaced font issues?

Adám

Hm.

RGS

(Also, does anyone know what was the pastebin-like service that the bot here used to paste large results?)

dzaima

0x0.st?

Adám

@RGS One (not so nice) possibility would be to have the bot render a picture and tweet that.

RGS

@dzaima yes! thanks

@Adám I could also turn ]box off... but that wouldn't be great as well, I think

Adám

23:25

@RGS Maybe replace all characters with fullwidth forms? The line drawings would have to use ＋－｜ like in the old days.

RGS

I'll think about it tomorrow. I'll turn the thing off (the bot isn't hosted yet; I'll accept suggestions)

Yeah that's an alternative.

Adám

Fullwidth even handles negative APL numbers: ￣１．９Ｅ２３４

Bubbler

Apparently disp-family functions don't support alternative boxing chars (it's natively supported in J as one of system settings)

RGS

wdym?

@Bubbler one of the dfns.xxx one does

Don't know by heart which one, though.

Adám

@Bubbler They used to. We removed the option since "everyone" supports line drawing chars these days.

RGS

23:32

Wait, I was pretty sure one of them did, but now I can't find it :P

Adám

Anyway, using +-| wouldn't help at all, since they have very unequal width, and space is generally super thin too.

Bubbler

The only one left now seems to be dfns.box, which isn't quite useful for displaying arrays

RGS

ah right, so there was one left

Adám

@RGS 3 additional options: 1) Return a 1-liner expression for the result. 2) Use JSON. 3) Use APLAN.

Bubbler

Also agreed to the point that it's useless outside of monospace context

RGS

23:34

@Adám twitter.com/dyalogaplbot/status/1407119565067259904 definitely not better

Bubbler

Spaces are not only super thin, runs of spaces are often stripped down to a single space

Adám

Yeah, but that can usually be mitigated by nbsp

RGS

Well, I'll have some sleep now

I'll think about it tomorrow

Adám

Also to think about is the "active" sequence. `⋄ seems a bit OTT.

RGS

About the one-liner, not sure if that would be helpful if a user types ⍳3 3 and I reply with ]repr, which gives something like 3 3⍴(2⍴0) (0 1) (0 2) (1 0) (2⍴1) (1 2) (2 0) (2 1) (2⍴2)

@Adám that's a trivial change in the beginning, it's just a matter of tweaking my basic regex.

Adám

23:38

@RGS True, but how about [(1 1 ⋄ 1 2 ⋄ 1 3 ⋄) ⋄ (2 1 ⋄ 2 2 ⋄ 2 3 ⋄) ⋄]?

RGS

@Adám I'd 100% go with that if APLAN were already a thing

Adám

Or [[[1,1],[1,2],[1,3]],[[2,1],[2,2],[2,3]]]

dzaima

@Adám I think a picture would be better than that

Adám

Maybe it can return a one-liner expression and a picture?

RGS

@dzaima maybe that + picture? the picture is good to look at but the APL result/repr/APLAN is good for copying/pasting

Bubbler

23:39

Array notation would be great if it is a common knowledge across APLers already. Not right now I guess

dzaima

@RGS some hybrid is probably best. Also the image can be omitted if the pretty-printed version is a single line

Adám

Or simply restrict it to results that can fit on a line.

@Bubbler Though fairly intuitive (and whitespace doesn't matter) if written as:

↑⎕SE.Dyalog.Array.Serialise ⍳2 3
[
(
1 1
1 2
1 3
)
(
2 1
2 2
2 3
)
]

RGS

Alright, I do have to go now. I'll pick your suggestions up "tomorrow"

Adám

But of course, at least leading spaces would help:

[
⠀⠀(
⠀⠀⠀⠀1⠀1
⠀⠀⠀⠀1⠀2
⠀⠀⠀⠀1⠀3
⠀⠀)
⠀⠀(
⠀⠀⠀⠀2⠀1
⠀⠀⠀⠀2⠀2
⠀⠀⠀⠀2⠀3
⠀⠀)
]

0xACE

23:56

afaik 0x0.st has a 1 year retention policy, after 365 days it's not guaranteed that your data will remain...

Adám

Seems enough for tweets.

0xACE

out of curiousty does anyone know if python or any other language has a nice REPL like RIDE/Dyalog? it find it very convenient to not only be able to CTRL-Shift-Backspace, but also be able to up to a previous line and edit it in place and re-evaluate it

Previously tinkered with lisp and emacs, but I feel like ride makes better use of it

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