SE Podcast

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18:31

abby hairboat has unfrozen this room.

abby hairboat

yooooooo

Kasra Rahjerdi

20:03

HELLO

abby hairboat

HI

Kasra Rahjerdi

@DavidFullerton I watch people watch League of Legends

routinely.

Jon Ericson

@abbyhairboat I think the URL in the room description is outdated. Hint, hint. ;-)

abby hairboat

room topic changed to SE Podcast: youtube.com/watch?v=GBtTPyvrHNY (no tags)

WHAT LINK

Michael Berkowski

Hi everyone

Jaydles

20:06

Hi, @MichaelBerkowski

abby hairboat

the hangout on air audio might not be amazing - it's using the table mics, not the fancy podcast mics

Alexa

I just see a black screen?

abby hairboat

@Alexa are you in the office?

if so can someone else in the office go bail alexa out please :)

Alexa

@abbyhairboat I got it!

bluefeet

I nominate you @abbyhairboat

abby hairboat

20:10

@bluefeet i'm not in the office :)

@Alexa woot!

bluefeet

@abbyhairboat slacker

abby hairboat

even if i were in AN office, it wouldn't be the same one as alexa!

bluefeet

I repeat...slacker

abby hairboat

??? i don't know how to win

bluefeet

you're fired

wait, that's your line

Kasra Rahjerdi

20:12

can we talk about zoot suits next

David Fullerton

wow this got off the rails fast

stevvve

David sigh count: 1

Kasra Rahjerdi

let's talk about RoR

Laura

don't worry, the editor will cut this down to 2 punchy seconds

abby hairboat

..........whatishappening

ArtOfCode

20:13

...idon'tknow

Evening, all.

Foster Bass

Is this what people tune in for?

Kasra Rahjerdi

hello!

David Fullerton

Laura

@FosterBass i don't know; what did you tune in for?

bluefeet

why does @Jaydles know this??

Kasra Rahjerdi

20:14

is brick wearing a seersucker suit in that

Foster Bass

@Laura This, exactly.

Laura

then sure, it's what people tune in for

David Fullerton

@Laura don't listen you will regret it

abby hairboat

Aug 11 at 20:10, by Jin

how high are you guys right now?

David Fullerton

I should have grabbed a beer for this

stevvve

20:15

@DavidFullerton I will bring you a beer

If you will sigh more

abby hairboat

why would you ever start a podcast with 0 beers

ArtOfCode

Who's who in there? I don't know who I'm looking at D:

David Fullerton

I can't sigh on demand

I am wearing a red hoodie

abby hairboat

you are not visible @DavidFullerton

Laura

@DavidFullerton me too. what kind do you want?

abby hairboat

20:15

jay is blocking you

stevvve

Ah that's true, it wouldn't be natural

Laur let's just bring him like four beers

bluefeet

@stevvve do it

Foster Bass

"StackOverflow just has the answer." - Joel I love that.

Kasra Rahjerdi

SICK CALLBACK BRO

Michael Berkowski

Ha! I've already got a t-shirt. I did it for <3

One tweet a minute is really impressive.

Jon Ericson

20:20

I also wish I had a beer. tapping foot

ArtOfCode

I'm getting one of those t-shirts

Seth

@ArtOfCode Joel Spolsky, David Fullerton, Jay Hanlon and someone else.

David Fullerton

HI @BrentOzar!

Brent Ozar

Howdy sir!

I just had to see the outfit.

Jon Ericson

@Seth Kevin Montrose

bluefeet

20:21

You could also answer this to gush about how SO helped you!!

Michael Berkowski

Dorky jokes get flagged non-constructive.

ArtOfCode

@DavidFullerton Is the challenge here simply to make you guys laugh live on podcast because of something we say?

David Fullerton

if you can break my concentration mid-sentence, that's 100 points

Matt Sherman

i wish i had a dollar for every time i've said to a librarian: undefined is not a function

David Fullerton

extra challenging because of the tape delay

Kasra Rahjerdi

20:22

@MattSherman without context this is dangerously close to a markov chain

ArtOfCode

I'll get the guys on Worldbuilding to figure out a way. We're good at that.

Kasra Rahjerdi

I'm working on a script to figure out who the winners are for the shirts so @abbyhairboat doesn't do them manually

and uh

I got banned from twitter's API for rate limiting reasons

Balrog30

If Stack Overflow gave a Large-size t-shirt to every member with over 1k rep, the t-shirt order would weight about 12.5 tonnes.

David Fullerton

ArtOfCode

@DavidFullerton With a couple seconds latency... that's a pretty serious challenge.

@DavidFullerton Ah, here it is. I knew we'd had something like this. Destroying Stack Exchange from space... that would knock the podcast down. How many points?

@KasraRahjerdi Get the proxies out, get the HTTP forwards out. Multiple IPs, multiple API keys.

Kasra Rahjerdi

20:26

@ArtOfCode it'll be fine if I just refactor our codebase to support application tokens instead of just user tokens

it's just SO INFURIATING because the error is "420 - Enhance Your Calm"

and i just want to punch that error code straight in the RFC

ArtOfCode

@KasraRahjerdi Twitter, trolling devs since whenever it was their API came in.

Michael Berkowski

Have to say, the documentation initiative has me the most excited I've been about SO in a few years.

5

ArtOfCode

Aye. That'll be another useful thing to add to their repertoire.

Michael Berkowski

But I looove writing good READMEs.

David Fullerton

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080820174408AAZkbcG

Brent Ozar

20:31

True story: I own HowIsBabbyFormed.com.

3

I just had to have that piece of trivia.

Jaydles

Of course you do, @BrentOzar.

Laura

@BrentOzar good job

ArtOfCode

@BrentOzar Have fun making us believe that one :) Do a Google Analytics style verification, or something.

Brent Ozar

Oh, sure, hang on.

abby hairboat

@MichaelBerkowski ME TOO!

ArtOfCode

20:32

Damn, 100 points to you, @BrentOzar.

Brent Ozar

There you go. Added "(As seen in the StackExchange chat room.)" to the page, hahaha.

I should really get a real job.

3

ArtOfCode

Damn, he really does own it

Michael Berkowski

I feel like it's going to be a success because the people who can write good, thorough, detailed answers are likely to be the same ones who can write thorough and clear docs.

bluefeet

@ArtOfCode never question @BrentOzar

ArtOfCode

@bluefeet Serves me right for my scepticism :)

Brent Ozar

20:35

Hahaha

Michael Berkowski

Yep, a new activity. Like mining unicoins.

ArtOfCode

@MichaelBerkowski We should bring those back at some point...

Temporarily, of course.

HTML babby

D.G.

That's right @Jaydles, move the bottle closer to the mic when you open it...

Balrog30

I just hope you'll be able to embed live examples like CodePen or Plunker into the documentation. If you can do that, I will build my Open Source project's docs in your new system.

Brent Ozar

If you squint your eyes, the mics look like hovering bottles.

ArtOfCode

20:41

@Balrog30 I think it's language docs, rather than project docs

Matt Sherman

image maps for PIXEL PRECISION

Michael Berkowski

You can't play Duck Hunt on new TV's.

Balrog30

Where is the boundary between language and library?

ArtOfCode

@Balrog30 One's a language, one's an extension to a language.

One's corporation-created, one's user-created.

In fact, that's worth asking the guys while we're all here.

Michael Berkowski

That "get started with some copy/paste" is possibly the only area PHP excels.

hichris123

20:44

Thank you people for listening to me and using Hangouts. :)

Michael Berkowski

Usually good official examples on php.net, plus user-contrib examples (if you can sort out the crap from the user-contrib stuff)

ArtOfCode

@DavidFullerton Are we right in saying that this is intended for language docs, rather than project or library docs?

David Fullerton

no, all of the above potentially

Balrog30

Most languages are pretty useless without at least some kind of standard library. I find most languages you can pick up syntax in an hour, it's the standard library that involves digging through docs to learn how to do what you want to do.

David Fullerton

well, probably not your project. a shared project that lots of people use and can contribute to

it's not for a team to document their own code, but maybe to document their public API

Balrog30

20:45

The OSS project I run has 600+ stars on GitHub... not big enough?

ArtOfCode

@DavidFullerton Worth making that clear somewhere in something relating to this project. In the meta post, perhaps, or just mention it somewhere.

Michael Berkowski

I do worry that some projects will abdicate responsibilities for documenting their own stuff. "SO will get it done eventually"

David Fullerton

the rule we've been tentatively tossing around is "big enough to already have a tag on SO"...

ArtOfCode

@DavidFullerton A tag is probably a good idea.

Diederik

I think SO will probably get community docs right, but the "community notes" on PHP docs are quite crazy. php.net/manual/en/book.simplexml.php

Balrog30

20:47

Makes sense.

ArtOfCode

Maybe tie the documentation feature to tags?

Michael Berkowski

@Diederik It's hard because the voting is useless. Over time good user-contrib stuff tends to accumulate downvotes. There's no auth on voting.

ArtOfCode

If you tie it to a tag, you make sure it only happens on things that are big enough to have a tag, but there might be some use-cases you exclude?

Michael Berkowski

But there are real gems in there, which given SE's content standards, could really be brought out.

Diederik

@MichaelBerkowski -9 votes, and 100% visible :lame:

Michael Berkowski

20:49

@Diederik And not sortable by votes!

ArtOfCode

Also maybe a minimum question number in the tag? Or someone with 1500 rep just creates a tag for their project and documents.

Michael Berkowski

@Diederik But the votes are meaningless. Excellent examples may have -30 just because they're old.

Diederik

/me uploading photo...

David Fullerton

noooooooo

random

Looks like Nev and Max on the podcast

Diederik

20:57

Docs for a new framework: big moving parts and good practices. E.g. Android.

Read few pages, then look at examples. Once design philosophy is down.

Joel Spolsky

ANY AUDIENCE QUESTIONS FOR THE PODCAST?

random

Is this the whispercast?

David Fullerton

@JoelSpolsky IS TACO REALLY GIVING A TALK AT THE COMPANY MEETUP

Kasra Rahjerdi

he didn't get selected

no one from marketing did either so he's in good company

Michael Berkowski

@random Is SO inadvertently going to make projects stop writing their own docs?

@random Sorry, that was for joel

ArtOfCode

21:00

@JoelSpolsky Can I be annoying? Apart from business priorities (SO is the one that makes the money), what was the reasoning for implementing docs on SO rather than another SE-wide feature that could potentially benefit more?

random

How soon before we see these docs/guides on Amazon like we have with Wikipedia-sourced churn books?

Michael Berkowski

@JoelSpolsky Is SO inadvertently going to make projects stop writing their own docs?

Mad Scientist

@JoelSpolsky How did you solve the issue of distributing reputation for a collaboratively edited page of documentation? This does seem like a really hard problem, and so far SE has avoided it (like in community wiki answers).

Diederik

Much less QA on forums now.

THANK YOU SO

Michael Berkowski

Support forums going to SO questions is a little different from docs though. I hope we don't see them just say "go to Stack Overflow for docs" and expect us to write them.

(not to seem like a nay-sayer. I'm very excited about this project)

Jaydles

21:03

@MichaelBerkowski stop raising valid concerns, and START WRITING DOCS.

4

Michael Berkowski

Rats, I have to leave. Thanks everybody.

ArtOfCode

You wanna know about pull requests and contributing to open source? That's my site!

@Jaydles Question: what's happening with the beta? Are we going to get an email saying things, or something?

David Fullerton

@ArtOfCode basically... be patient, you'll get an email when there's something for you to do, but it's still very much early days

ArtOfCode

...and that's why they have a disclaimer :)

Oh god. Don't get us started on our Open Source naming and scope problems.

Jaydles

@kevin, remove @ArtOfCode from the beta list for being too pushy.

ArtOfCode

21:10

sockpuppeting time

:)

Missed answering one question :)

Kasra Rahjerdi

which question?

hichris123

I bet there's one question out there that's unanswered... in a sea of 10 million questions.

ArtOfCode

11 mins ago, by ArtOfCode

@JoelSpolsky Can I be annoying? Apart from business priorities (SO is the one that makes the money), what was the reasoning for implementing docs on SO rather than another SE-wide feature that could potentially benefit more?

Kasra Rahjerdi

@Jaydles / @DavidFullerton wanna talk about that even though we're off air? ^

nope guess we're not on air anymore

ArtOfCode

Nope, stream just cut

bluefeet

21:11

buh bye

abby hairboat

sorry guys

thanks for joining us

bluefeet

blame abby

ArtOfCode

heh, no worries

Kasra Rahjerdi

blame Jay for saying we got all questions and skipping one :P

ArtOfCode

My site got a mention, I'll let you off

abby hairboat

21:12

they're answering it! it's not streaming but it'll get recorded

you'll just have to listen to the edited version when it comes out

David Fullerton

@abby TYPING NOISES

D.G.

@ArtOfCode @abby The stream is still up if you refresh.

abby hairboat

aha!

ArtOfCode

@D.G. Not for me... it's just the recorded video

D.G.

Oh that was the start? I missed the start.

abby hairboat

21:14

it's ok, our magical editor will make it sound like it was part of the podcast

(HI MAGICAL EDITOR)

ArtOfCode

Hey @JoelSpolsky, the Worldbuilding guys have noticed my mischief here, and I've been told that they think we should get graduation as a birthday present... :)

bluefeet

@ArtOfCode do you realize that the more you ask for graduation, the further back on the list you move?

David Fullerton

@bluefeet tells it like it is

ArtOfCode

@bluefeet I know :) I could hardly refuse a Worldbuilding moderator daring me to ask, though. That's my excuse, anyway.

Air

21:45

I have no idea what's going on right now and it looks like all the action happened while I was at lunch, but... I'm certain I just heard a ST:TNG doorbell

Oh hey, it's a recording. And it's at 2:47. And yep, that's the door.