« first day (1497 days earlier)      last day (469 days later) » 
19:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:00

9:00 PM
user image
5
I was busy replacing @Jin.
 
amazing
 
@random He apologized for it later, but the damage was done.
 
waffles taste good
 
9:00 PM
@HarryCBurn == AWildSketchAppeared
CONSPIRACY
 
@MichaelMrozek Yeah, there are a few distinct groups complaining. And I certainly don't want to be associated with all of them. It's a giant mess of frustration due to various reasons.
 
@JasonPunyon He uses MSPaint! It is super Effective! (+1 Shoutout)
 
hey let'st alk about Hacker News now
hey so what did the YC investment into Quora ever end up doing
to talk to the reddit admins you send a message to the mods of /r/reddit.com
 
The fact that they've apparently been willing to moderate effectively when it suits the company's needs but ignored requests from the community...
 
but they have direct contact to Victoria
 
9:02 PM
SE is one of the best example of a site that doesn't cater to the "free speech" crowd.
 
@KasraRahjerdi To find out you'll have to log in
 
There we go... inconsistency in communication
 
unfortunate that all the reddit mod stuff is getting all wrapped up in the harassment shutdowns though...
 
@MadScientist And wow does reddit hate it. So much
 
 
9:03 PM
I think Atwood's [Please Read the Comments](http://blog.codinghorror.com/please-read-the-comments/) has the perfect summary of the philosophy:
"If your website is full of assholes, it's your fault."
 
Jin
@HarryCBurn (╯︵╰,)
 
0
Q: New Aviation Site Design!

Bret CopelandGood news everyone, it was discussed on the Stack Exchange podcast, and we now have a site design. This should be rolling out as soon as we can get the design spec converted into workable CSS. Completed layout: If you have any comments before this is finalized, please let me know.

 
Do CMs have an "on call" schedule? @Jaydles
 
Anonymous
The fact that their moderators aren't elected, but are just appointed by the subreddit creators, makes things a little strange.
 
@cashenhu yes
 
9:04 PM
@BretCopeland Hahahaha! I love it! ;)
I think I deserve credit though ;)
 
Unless a CM has recently written a message in TL, it's really, really hard to find out who is actually online right now
 
@BretCopeland excellent use for websockets: seeing the live votes on this post
 
Hey! I was automatically logged into Aviation!
 
@BretCopeland inb4 aviation meltdown
 
"Whoever is awake and in the TL and has a username beginning with "s" is on call"
 
9:05 PM
Just clicked the vote button and it worked. Amazing!
 
@JeremyBanks And seniority is absolute, whoever made the subreddit first can go crazy and unmod everyone else, years later
 
@JasonPunyon #EmployeePrivilege
2
 
@Shog9 your own fault for always lurking
 
@MadScientist I remembered to log out of the TL before I went on vacation this time.
 
It's servant leadership.
 
9:06 PM
we don't have any servants around here
 
Anonymous
@MichaelMrozek Yeah... I was unmodded in a situation like that during a subreddit meltdown, back when I was active (several years ago). It wasn't great.
 
@Shog9 wait so... you do have an on-call thing or no?
 
one a "completely unrelated" note.....
in Code Review Moderator Election 2015, 2 mins ago, by Simon André Forsberg
@Vogel612 do they mention our election on the podcast?
 
@cashenhu in theory, we have a tool that shows who is available. In practice, it doesn't work.
 
9:07 PM
That is the dumbest VC thing I've ever heard.
 
@DavidFullerton Once a year, Joel, you, and Jay should be servants for the rest of the company.
 
@bluefeet how else would I get all this popcorn eaten?
 
@Shog9 ah ok.
 
@MichaelMrozek I think the Reddit model of moderation is just entirely broken. And that is just one example of this
 
@Shog9 Seems kind of unnecessary now that we have meta.stackexchange.com/questions/122770/…. Which this whole conversation seems to be forgetting about
 
9:07 PM
Let's get back to Rampart
 
@hichris123 I'll do it if Joel does
 
@Vogel612 needs more puns
 
Anonymous
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!
 
@JeremyBanks Oh wow
 
@MichaelMrozek I suspect Jay intended to get to that eventually.
 
9:08 PM
Get your dirty fingerprints off my chat room.
 
He'll remember an hour or two after we stop recording.
 
@Shog9 requested moar puns
 
Ready... steady....
Seems appropriate ^^^
 
lazy
 
@Oded ah too late! I've closed it and opened the prettified version.
 
9:09 PM
How are you gonna get a mention of your election if you don't run a pun?
 
Which have only two commits
 
That works too
 
@nicael done
thanks! <3
 
Gah, missed a few minutes ;p
 
9:10 PM
Digg did a complete redo of the website but didn't ask anyone for any advice
I was even in the fucking beta group for the new digg
but they didn't launch it to the beta group
they launched it to prod instead
 
Anonymous
3 mins ago, by Jeremy Banks
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!
 
and guess what, if you spend a year working on completely redoing your product without talking to your users at all, bye-bye
 
@HarryCBurn are you really any more lost though? :p
 
@JeremyBanks People would've paid more attention if you'd written it on your boobs, apparently
 
dammit Joel just said that
 
9:11 PM
Of course not ;)
 
I SAID IT FIRST
 
0
A: New Aviation Site Design!

HarryCBurnAs the author of the work, I can offer a harsh (although biased) opinion on the matter. The piece speaks to me, in that the singular turbine, whilst inhibiting flight, can both continue to fly, progressing through issues as Aviation.SE does. Similarly, I feel as though the "Kneawwww" text also ...

 
voat.co was an option they were considering
 
Reddit is also open-source in Python
 
@gla3dr That comes up in the daily "We all hate reddit" reddit thread, and everyone looks at it, and then comes back. Over and over and over
 
9:12 PM
We know how to keep a site up under load...
 
@Shog9 Have you read our meta recently? We're filling a whole tag with puns. For example:
7
Q: Do we [stl] need [stl]?

Jamal Update: STL synonym created instead of burnination: See stl It appears that stl is "selectively" used for questions that utilize the Standard Template Library. However, this only applies to C++, and such code should already make use of the STL. Even if a C++ question doesn't utilize t...

 
@MichaelMrozek Similar could be said about Ello. ;-) (Facebook is still alive and kicking.)
 
@MichaelMrozek yeah it's not great and it's servers can't handle the traffic
 
Drat, I can't listen to the podcast and create a pun at the same time. So many puns, but not 1 in 10 was good, does that make it goSh9? @Shog9
 
so is SO, @JoelSpolsky
 
Anonymous
9:13 PM
For all that's wrong with Voat, they at least added an option for subcommunities to add reputation requirements for voting, and subcommunity-specific karma -- a baby step in the direction of the more segregated SE model.
 
... or ingress?
 
@JeremyBanks Also they show vote counts :P
 
@CarrieKendall So is SO what? I missed the context.
 
a time waster
it serves other purposes, but most high rep users use SE as a time waster
 
need a drawing of Burny Cat
 
9:14 PM
@CarrieKendall Since coming on board to SE, I've had to find ways to not make SO a time-waster. ;-)
 
@DavidFullerton calling upon @HarryCBurn
 
@CarrieKendall hmm, that's not how I used it
 
I was saying Boo-urns...
 
Livestreams backend is unhealthy?? Do they need some pepto...
 
@bluefeet I know you were there to moderate, but, some people think playing the rep game is time-wasting.
 
9:15 PM
Okay, relevant question (kinda): how is SE approaching some of the criticism it's getting (see meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/298693/…) if at all?
 
Jin
@HarryCBurn can you draw me?
 
@hichris123 Bill's response on that is perfect
 
@ChrisJester-Young even before I was a moderator, I didn't really use it as a time-waster
 
In digestion, a bolus (from Latin bolus, "ball") is a mass of food that (with animals that can chew) has been chewed at the point of swallowing. Under normal circumstances, the bolus then travels down the esophagus to the stomach for digestion. Bolus has the same colour as the food that has been chewed by the person and is different from chyme. The bolus is a rolled up ball-like structure formed when the animal is about to swallow. Its pH is alkaline because of the presence of saliva. == See also == Chyle == References... ==
 
large little tiny?
 
9:16 PM
10
Q: New Aviation Site Design!

Bret CopelandGood news everyone, it was discussed on the Stack Exchange podcast, and we now have a site design. This should be rolling out as soon as we can get the design spec converted into workable CSS. Completed layout: If you have any comments before this is finalized, please let me know.

Wtf is this?!
 
@Shog9 what is that picture
 
a bolus
try to keep up david
2
 
@Shog9 eww, just eww
 
you sure you want the answer to that, David?
 
@KasraRahjerdi Quite true but I'm curious about internal discussions regarding such posts.
 
9:17 PM
Ashton?
Snoop!
 
@hichris123 we had 3 similar questions the last 24 hours
 
Snoop is a legit member of the community, he moderates /r/trees!
 
@hichris123 Most of that criticism is just something I can't take seriously. If you look a bit closer it's just a user angry because their questions were downvoted or closed. There is a real issue with civility towards new users, but most of the complaints don't paint an accurate picture
 
@bluefeet Not any more ew than the Bullshit box that Cards Against Humanity was selling last Black Friday.
 
Jin
@KasraRahjerdi are you one of his nephews?
 
9:18 PM
@Jin yaaaas nefew
 
I still feel cheated because of the lack of credit.
 
@MadScientist I agree with that too.
 
I still have that Bullshit box, still unopened.
 
Anonymous
@KasraRahjerdi He is a moderator. I don't know if he actually moderates very much. :P
 
what was the wikipedia analogy earlier @jaydles
 
9:18 PM
I want you all to know, I never pressed the button.
6
 
@hichris123 We always talk about posts people make about our culture. A lot of times there's some truth to the posts and we can do something to help fix it, but this specific one is :|
 
You did have to learn it....
 
My internet is dying, anyone mind pinging me if I'm mentioned? ;p
 
@Shog9 non-presser high-five
 
@sassie ?
 
9:19 PM
SE is much more transparent than Reddit with moderation. The simple thing that deleted posts are visible to 10k users does a lot. And there is a dedicated meta for each site on SE
5
 
@KasraRahjerdi Yeah. Okay, good answer. :)
 
@Shog9 I don't understand you people. I clicked the button immediately when I got to the site to see what it did, how did everyone not do that
 
@Jaydles when Joel started banging he hand "it's so true!"
 
@SimonAndréForsberg Hey, that's my pun.
 
@MadScientist One of the sites has shadowbans, and one does not
 
9:20 PM
"encylcopedia", @sassie
(vs. newspaper.)
 
To be entirely honest, SE isn't listening (or maybe just responding) to a lot of stuff people request on meta. But most of that I can attribute to SE setting priorities, which is certainly understandable.
 
@BretCopeland Seriously, my lack of credit in the Q is making me sad :(
 
56
A: Ideas for proposals to help Stack Overflow create a more positive community?

Bill the LizardI propose we read posts like The decline of Stack Overflow with a critical eye and recognize that it's little more than a Google/copy/paste article designed to drive traffic to a blog. Let's look closely at the examples illustrated in the article. Here's that post today after being edited ext...

2
 
@MadScientist does it feel like we're not listening, or that we're listening, but not necesssarily prioritizing what's asked for?
 
@MichaelMrozek shadow bans are just a terrible idea, and I agree that this fact does say something about these sites
 
9:22 PM
@MadScientist I still bother @AnnaLear about this 2yo feature request
 
Joel vastly oversimplifying...
 
@DavidRobinson The fact that you work here now will not stop me from "ignoring" you in chat. :P
 
"I want to design a website with a chart in it. What library should I use?"
 
@Jaydles More of the former. Feature requests go untouched by SE staff for months, years... and no one knows what's going on.
 
@Jaydles SE doesn't respond to a large part of meta feature requests. I'm reasonably sure that SE is reading far more of them that they're responding to, but I can't be sure.
 
9:23 PM
@HarryCBurn there.
 
@AnnaLear Then you'll miss updates on my sick Twitter burns
 
@DavidRobinson Acceptable.
 
calling good answers snakes... they won't bite higher than the ankle?
 
17
Q: Adding For loop prevents OutOfMemoryError

snagpalWhen I remove the for loop I get an OutOfMemoryError. When I use for loop I don't get error. Can anyone help me in understanding this behavior? public class JavaMemoryPuzzlePolite { private final int dataSize = (int) (Runtime.getRuntime().maxMemory() * 0.6); public void f() { { ...

Newb question from yesterday...
 
@BretCopeland Thank you ;)
 
9:25 PM
@MadScientist that is true (reading more than we respond to). Speaking for myself (which doesn't help much because I work on Careers, not the Q&A communities, these days), I would often read a request, then either make a note to discuss it with someone else internally or keep it open in a tab until I had time to write a thorough answer, and then just lose track of it.
 
@MadScientist Yeah, we read everything, at least in my case of [ios-app] and [android-app] I look at every question that comes in but I only respond when I have something factual to say
 
pg-13++
 
Gotta' run now everyone, hope to see you all at some point in the future!
:)
 
@MadScientist doesn't make up for the fact that we as a company should post responses to more than we do, but it is an honest explanation that it's just really hard to keep up on the Q&A requests
 
@KasraRahjerdi /me abusing this situation to get back to you on what's happening with null newlines with the edit buttons?
 
9:26 PM
@MadScientist Feature requests have an additional problem in that as we grow, it's harder to come to agreement about how to (or even whether to) implement them.
 
@Vogel612 Yeah the markdown editor is a mess right now, changes are coming later this week hopefully. I spent the last month working on a completely new tablet UI (which is now out to beta and 20% of prod) but it's crashy :(
Gotta fix that first
 
6-8 weeks is irritating..... makes me feel that SE does not care too much ;-)
 
Is anyone doing anything about this one: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/225624/… ?
 
tl;dr: if it's a bad idea, I can answer immediately. If it's a good idea, I have to argue with 20 people for 6 months first.
4
 
@JonEricson The hard part for us users is to know if our idea is ignored because it is crap, or just because nobody at SE that is responsible for it noticed it
 
9:28 PM
soo... you could kinda share the public part of your trello board, maybe?
 
@DaveShaw see previous podcast
Alternately, ask @KasraRahjerdi directly. It is his most favorite topic.
 
@Shog9 Every podcast needs to ask about it :)
 
Didn't it used to be a dev's job to be on meta duty (and perhaps still is?).
 
I have Adam Davis's answer upvoted
 
9:29 PM
@hichris123 bug duty, but not feature-request duty
 
@DavidFullerton Mm, I see.
 
@MadScientist Yeah, if the idea is crap, we usually let you know pretty quick. (That's easy.)
 
Also, bugs and feature requests (across all metas) are somewhat of a firehose - there are a lot of them coming in every day.
2
 
There's a lot of variation in feature requests. There's "change the color of this button" which is easy. and then there's "build a whole new system to do thing X that might not even be a good idea philosophically speaking".
 
there's a wide range of "Yeah I'd love to do this if we had more time". Which we don't really want to decline... or promise we'll do...
 
9:30 PM
he has to run team city or whatever to change anything, right?
 
The latter is hard to respond to as an employee without folks assuming that your word is final while all we're doing is theorizing.
3
 
@cashenhu citydesk yeah
 
@DavidFullerton yes, exactly that
 
Jin
how long is this podcast?
 
@AnnaLear I'm not blaming SE as much as I might appear right now. I understand that it's pretty difficult to appropriately respond to all the stuff we propose on meta. I still think that there's potential to improve on responding to stuff that seems reasonably popular, but maybe not something SE can implement just right now
 
9:32 PM
it already ended actually, IIUC
 
longer than a piece of string, shorter than a road
 
@Jin 18 hours
 
@MadScientist We definitely have room for improvement. It's just that nobody's quite sure how to go about it consistently.
 
@Jin we now edit them down to "Lord of the Rings Trilogy".
 
We're nothing if not inconsistent
 
9:33 PM
@Oded Consistently inconsistent.
2
 
No one's gonna change it every day...
 
Jin
@Jaydles can you say my name on air now? it'd sustain me.
 
we've been talking about this for at least 4 years...
 
Hallo!
 
we keep hiring people to solve it and they keep burning out for some reason
 
9:34 PM
@MadScientist Yeah. Users are starting to thing that no one is paying attention, which you and I know isn't true... but why should they believe that?
 
Back when I was a mod and not a CM, I often thought "how hard can it be to respond to this? It would take a minute!". Then I got hired and I thought "Alright! Let's do this. This can't possibly take this much time." And then time passed and I went ... "Oh. I'm part of the problem now." :P
7
 
@Jin Jay said my name on air earlier; A+++ would buy again
 
@Shog9 only 2-4 years left to fix it.
 
"Dawn"
 
creative detector. he detects creatives.
 
9:34 PM
Anyang
 
Gene Young
 
@AnnaLear and then, the same thing happened again when you became a dev...
 
@Oded Oh yes. "I'm totally gonna fix all these things! ... Uh. About that..."
 
I might be projecting here.
 
jēn yŭng
 
9:35 PM
YOU CAN
OMG
 
buy yogurt bulk, buy jam, buy a bowl.
 
@DavidRobinson I was already mentioned on the podcast years ago: blog.stackexchange.com/2009/02/podcast-43
 
@Shog9 hippie
 
so I'm already sorted ;-)
 
9:36 PM
@bluefeet the hippies borrow those things. Subtle difference.
 
@AnnaLear Way to ignore the community
 
@MichaelMrozek Hey, I gotta be good at something...
 
@anna you can work on all those things after you finish login
 
Aww, I joined just before it ended…
 
The fat lady has sung
 
9:36 PM
@bjb568 Better than after
 
Login is important…
 
@DavidFullerton I'm typing as fast as I can.
Productivity: WORK HARDER. TYPE FASTER. CLICK MORE THINGS.
 
Yay click counting software!
 
@AnnaLear Minesweeper definitely fits #3.
 
Minesweeper saves lives.
 
9:39 PM
@AnnaLear "Fullerton is always right. I will work harder."
 
@AnnaLear I think the login improvements will be appreciated a lot. Especially by users like me that use a lot of sites from several devices, I really look forward to never seeing the damn "you've been logged in" banner ever again
The one thing I'm missing that I'm not sure will be implemented is having the top bar in chat rooms. That seems intentional, thought I'd still like to see notifications from chat directly
 
@MadScientist I think it's gonna be really nice when it's done. However, some of the initial responses make me think of cube-drone.com/comics/c/ingeniuty-of-sorts.
 
@MadScientist chat notifications are a little broken..
 
@Vogel612 I mean main site notifications visible in chat rooms
 
oh you want the chat to also get a SuperColliderDropDown?
 
9:43 PM
@MadScientist We have some plans to work on chat again and a UI redesign to make it suck less overall may be on the books. (I honestly don't know how far we're gonna go or where we're at with it right now.) It'd be nice if we could bolt the inbox on somewhere in there. We do have the technology.
 
I posted a link about SO on HackerNews: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9848223 - Joel's blog post announcing SO! :D
 
The topbar may not be the best way to do it, but there are other ways. :)
 
Oh yea lets' cramp more stuff into the chat interface :D
 
Personally, I'd probably go even more towards a unified SE account, but I know that there's some heavy resistance to anything that looks like you've got an account on every SE site
 
@MadScientist personally I don't want that.
 
9:44 PM
There's already a unified SE account, so resistance is futile. It's existed for years.
 
I'm not really interested in ... worldbuilding..
 
That's like the coolest SE site.
 
Joining individual site communities is what needs to remain explicitly opt-in and we're keeping that in place.
 
My idea would be that you create an account with SE. And once you participated in any site, that site would be visible in your account without having to create an account. But I suspect too many people would object to that
 
Having to "log in" to create an account when you're already logged in is insane, though, and that's what we're fixing.
 
9:46 PM
@MadScientist yea let's merge all user-tables into one!!..
 
Yeah, I like that idea.
 
@MadScientist The mobile apps do something similar to that. Not sure how much confirmation they go through when voting or anything, though.
With the new login in place, we'll be able to do something like "User clicks upvote. User sees pop-up along the lines of 'Do you want to join X Stack Exchange or just leave anonymous feedback?'"
 
you get that darn popup "You're not a member of ... yet. [Join Site] [Cancel]"
 
Allow users to retain control over their associations but also make it easier to join sites they're interested in.
 
The one thing that I probably would do is to simply hide all profiles from other sites that have no badges or posts at all on the site. I do tend to create that kind of account for flagging spam or stuff like that, but I never intend to particpate on the site
 
9:49 PM
@MadScientist That could be an interesting UI option, but I don't think it's a good default for most people... especially as we launch sites on more controversial topics.
 
I just want to join all the sites.
 
Folks get pretty protective of their profiles. I know before I worked here, I got a private beta invite for Sexuality... and I sure did create a sockpuppet for that one.
 
@MadScientist Typically, you get a badge automatically on joining: Autobiographer (but not if you haven't filled out your profile at all).
 
@AnnaLear It would probably need a confirmation, something like "you upvoted this post; do you want to create an account here?"
 
@AnnaLear the proper euphemism is "secondary account"
 
9:50 PM
@hichris123 That's an implementation detail. "no badges" or "no badges that matter", meh.
 
@hichris123 I never filled out my profile, and probably never will do that
 
@AnnaLear Yeah. I guess I'd go more towards "no activity" - votes, comments, posts.
 
One of the harder parts of working here and evaluating feature requests is considering all the different types of users. A fair amount of time, in my experience, what I expect most people to do isn't what actually happens in practice. Turns out, I'm not a representative enough sample. :)
On that note... back to work.
People aren't gonna get accidentally logged out all by themselves, y'know.
 
@AnnaLear I'm absolutely certain that I'm very far away from any regular user of SE. I suspect that most users aren't active across the network
 
@MadScientist Yeah, and out of those that are, there are a few different archetypes - people with multiple network accounts to prevent association, people who join new betas and then lose interest, people who are on two sites and they're crazy high rep there, etc. etc.
 
9:56 PM
The one thing I've learned over time is that pretty much every issue is more complicated than I originally thought. If I would look back on my early meta posts, there are quite a few I wouldn't post in this form today
 
@MadScientist Oh to be young and innocent again. ;) Having said that, I still have faint hope that we might implement some variant of escalated chat moderation you proposed forever ago.
 
@AnnaLear That is one of the things I do see a bit different now, thought I have edited my post at some time. I still think this is necessary, but I also think a way around it is essential to avoid a clique of regular users abusing a chat room.
 
@MadScientist Yeah, it definitely needs more thought, but I think the core of the idea is really good and would alleviate some of the problems we currently have.
 
10:36 PM
Btw the login renew - when is it going to be tested?
 
19:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:00

« first day (1497 days earlier)      last day (469 days later) »