SE Podcast

Jon Ericson

9:00 PM

@abbyhairboat Protip: The answer to "Is there a magazine about X?" is true for every value of X.

abby hairboat

hang on i'm taking a quiz about what style of scrubs i should wear for my body type

hichris123

Joel is not a lawyer. Or is he.

SomeKittens

@JonEricson So there's a magazine about that statement?

Jon Ericson

@SomeKittens Gödeled!

Anonymous

Are there any people who identify as female running in the moderator election? [on hold, deleted]

Bart

9:02 PM

@hichris123 Joel is the law

Mooseman

@JeremyBanks Wait. Deleted questions can be reopened while remaining deleted?

hichris123

@Bart How do you read him, if he is the law? Are your glasses the key?

Anonymous

@Mooseman Hmm. I guess so.

Bart

32 mins ago, by Oded

Bart knows.™

hichris123

oh right, I forgot.

Mooseman

9:03 PM

@Bart Knows what?

Bart

Yes

SomeKittens

If only we had someone in a minority on this podcast!

3

Jon Ericson

We can fix this in post.

David Fullerton

as usual, we'll edit out everything that Jay said

5

Annonomus Penguin

~~How much do you guys edit out normally?~~ Everything.

SomeKittens

9:08 PM

@AnnonomusPenguin Here's a hint, in transcript form: ''

D.G.

It's gone down from an hour and a half recording to about 50 mins before.

David Fullerton

^ the actual editor

D.G.

But that did have post show conversations...

SomeKittens

Every kind of moron on the internet is in social media, such as chat rooms

Mooseman

Can I have the Oreos on the table?

bjb568

9:09 PM

I don't like oreos.

They're not really cookies.

Bart

You're not really a cat

Mooseman

@bjb568 How. Dare. You?

bjb568

@Bart :o

@Mooseman Yeah. I said it.

Jon Ericson

Did you punch them?

Mooseman

!!/lick oreo cookie creme

Annonomus Penguin

9:10 PM

"Since Bart said it, it must be true!"

abby hairboat

Joel Spolsky

any questions from the audience for roberta?

SomeKittens

4

@JoelSpolsky What can I, as cis-scum working at an all-male startup, do to help?

Jon Ericson

@JoelSpolsky What was your first programming project and what language did you use?

SomeKittens

Programming is AWESOME and I don't want anyone left out. I was left out in middle school and it wasn't fun.

More specifically, what sexist things might I be doing that I'm unaware of?

Mooseman

9:15 PM

@JoelSpolsky PC, Linux, or Mac? *If Linux, what distro?

Conspicuous Compiler

@SomeKittens Have you suggested your company sponsor or make in-kind donations towards Girls Who Code?

Oded

Yeah, that wording is already up on the jobs page

SomeKittens

@ConspicuousCompiler I have not, but that's a great idea!

abby hairboat

@SomeKittens what @ConspicuousCompiler said - start acting like a company to whom diversity is important, even if the company is not diverse yet

3

Anonymous

With respect Stack Exchange the community, not Stack Exchange the company: would it be practical to encourage more women to self-nominate for moderatorship?

abby hairboat

9:17 PM

i'm a lady, and i'd much rather apply to a company full of dudes that says "this is important to us, so here's what we're working on"

2

SomeKittens

@abbyhairboat That's a tricky proposition though. You'd prefer specifics on exactly what the company is doing?

Undo

bluefeet is the best.

3

Jon Chan

@abbyhairboat aye

Bart

Anna used to be of course

Anonymous

16 mins ago, by Jeremy Banks

Are there any people who identify as female running in the moderator election? [on hold, deleted]

Anonymous

9:18 PM

It seems like people don't want to know.

abby hairboat

yeah, it's kind of "don't ask, but you can tell if you want"

Chris Jester-Young

@JeremyBanks Only if we do away with the "select top 30 moderators (by rep) to go to the primary", because the thought of pushing other people off the available slots would deter some people. (Personal opinion, I do not speak for SE, etc.)

Oded

@JeremyBanks I think people object to the premise the gender determines suitability to being a moderator.

SomeKittens

Kathy Sierra is fantastic!

Shog9

-30

Q: Are there only male candidates for the moderator election?

From what I can see there are only male candidates for the moderator election.. Is that a concern? (should it be?) I know I found it odd when reading through the list.

discussion

Laura

9:19 PM

Question for the universe: What can we do to make women feel safe disclosing on SO that they are women?

5

I've seen lots of women say they'd never consider doing that. How can we make them feel like they'll be safe if they do?

abby hairboat

@SomeKittens you don't have to blog every time you write a check or keep a totally up-to-date list of organizations you're working with, but just being public about trying to contribute positively to the ratio goes a long way

SomeKittens

@Laura Answer from my wife: "Shut down the trolls. Make it publicly clear that harassment is not ok"

Conspicuous Compiler

I know that Oracle for a while spent a lot of money advertising themselves as diverse, with specific thrusts towards being friendly to GLBT community and women. It's too bad they had a generally bad rep as a company to work for while doing so.

Anonymous

@Shog9 Thanks.

Chris Jester-Young

@Laura Not worrying about being doxed would be a start, surely? (Re Kathy Sierra comment above.)

Undo

9:20 PM

While we're at it, what can we do to make all people feel safe asking question on SO? :P

3

Shog9

@JeremyBanks read comments

Anonymous

@Shog9 Sorry I'm dumb.

Shog9

I accept your apology

Mooseman

From the three stooges

SomeKittens

"According to your activity, you're a dog wearing a human mask"

Chris Jester-Young

9:21 PM

@SomeKittens What would "shut down the trolls" look like in practical terms, that we aren't already doing on SE sites?

Bart

@Undo house visits from Joel, coaching them when formulating their first post?

Laura

@SomeKittens this is an interesting thing...we do shut down the most egregious incidents really quickly (relying heavily on community members flagging things), and a lot of stuff gets shut down before the general public knows about it. but the occasional incident reaches twitter, or meta, or whatever and even though those things are really rare, they might portray that things aren't great on SO.

2

SomeKittens

@ChrisJester-Young Giving us chat room owners kick-bans has helped a LOT in shutting down (usually sexist) trolls

Chris Jester-Young

*nods*

Anonymous

(Who's talking right now, again? Jay? Forgetting these voices, the podcasts are so infrequent.)

Bart

9:22 PM

@Laura do people flag enough though? (Kinda hard to get a grasp on perhaps)

Shog9

MOAR CHAT KICKING!

kicks for diversity

3

SomeKittens

Though we have a few problem users who keep coming back, even after getting 30-minute bans for days

abby hairboat

Joey Graceffa

Joseph Michael "Joey" Graceffa (born May 16, 1991) is an American actor, author, and YouTube personality from Marlborough, Massachusetts. He runs the YouTube channels JoeyGraceffa and JoeyGraceffaGames with approximately 4.5 million and 1.1 million subscribers respectively. == Life and career == === 1991–06: Early life === Joey Graceffa was born on May 16, 1991 to Debbie and Joe Graceffa. Graceffa has two siblings, a sister named Nicole and a brother named Jett. He attended and graduated from Marlborough High School in 2009. === 2007–09: Beginnings on YouTube === Joey Graceffa first b...

Joel Spolsky

youtube.com/user/JoeyGraceffa

hichris123

@Laura I think better comment moderation would help, and hopefully @Shog9's plan or something similar will help.

Undo

9:23 PM

yeah, I'd like to see comment flagging either overhauled completely or at least give 10kers access to comment flags.

Joel Spolsky

ANYHOW THE POINT is only teenage girls go to his meetups even though he has lots of gay fans

abby hairboat

@JoelSpolsky is he having one in san diego in october by any chance?

Anonymous

There are some assholes in chat who keep coming back.

hichris123

That's the good part, Jay. The bad stuff lasts for a few hours+.

SomeKittens

Gay fan?

Laura

9:24 PM

cool. I think comment flags is a place where there's definitely room for improvement, and that helps for people already in the community.

Shog9

@JeremyBanks hey, I work here, I have to keep coming back or they'll stop paying me.

abby hairboat

@SomeKittens how did you get that picture from inside my apartment

Laura

any thoughts on how to communicate welcoming-ness and inclusion to the broader tech community?

Bart

@Shog9 you may be an *sshole, but you're our *sshole.

Laura

do casual browsers on SO even know that flagging exists?

do they know about our be nice policy?

should they?

Undo

9:25 PM

@Laura if they hit 15 rep they get a notification that they can flag now, IIRC.

abby hairboat

@Laura can't flag if not logged in

Shog9

We should implement some sort of event tracking system and use it to answer these questions

Bart

@Laura not necessarily if we are able to keep the site clean I'd guess.

Conspicuous Compiler

@Laura Buy ads for SO on sites which skew towards women or gender issues, such as The Mary Sue or Feministing?

hichris123

there's quite a few people out there that think SO is filled with a bunch of jerks. I dunno how many people, but...

Oded

9:25 PM

NO WE DON'T!

abby hairboat

@ConspicuousCompiler and vice versa: give free or discounted ad space on SO to sites like those

Mooseman

@Laura Destroy the modems of those who don't wish to convey welcoming-ness.

abby hairboat

(if they can make it relevant somehow)

Annonomus Penguin

@Laura There's kinda a negative feedback process going on here... the less people feel welcomed makes the next person feel even less welcomed.

Laura

@Mooseman would you like to be our first recruit to the Modem-Destroying Corps?

Annonomus Penguin

9:26 PM

As per the reading the be nice policy, people do not read anything in the first place

SomeKittens

Whatever you do, DON'T make the header bar pink for a day to "raise awareness"

Undo

4

Laura

@AnnonomusPenguin yup, agreed. haven't come up with a brilliant way to solve it

Shog9

@SomeKittens system message

abby hairboat

but that goes over so well when we do that

Bart

9:27 PM

@SomeKittens sh*tstorm waiting to happen

SomeKittens

Don't make people prove they're right, ask questions.

Michael Myers

@SomeKittens Trying reverse psychology, I see

Mooseman

@Laura Providing I can stay anonymous, of course. :) Poor Comcast. People will be mad at them and for the first time it won't be their fault.

SomeKittens

"Hey, why would you implement $X like this?" is WAAAAY better than "Don't implement $X" and wait for the argument.

Laura

@Mooseman it's still their fault. they shouldn't give internet access to people who can't be nice. :P

SomeKittens

9:28 PM

Even one person who insists on being right can kill a team's morale/culture.

Undo

Problem is that ISPs define 'being nice' as 'not using torrents' and 'not blowing through your datacap'

hichris123

Was Joel trying to lay down or something?

Mooseman

@Laura Yup... Hey, do I get a SO shirt for signing up for the Modem-Destroying Corps? ;)

Laura

@Mooseman you get real-life bronze, silver, and gold badges depending on the number of modems you destroy

Bart

@Laura ... this will not end well

Annonomus Penguin

9:30 PM

@Laura perhaps auto-flagging comments that contain would help this issue (chances are, if a message contains words that are often used in hate messages, they're going to be hateful. Perhaps take it a step further by not flagging it if that phrase is mentioned in the body of the post)

Sometimes, moderation is the only way to go.

Laura

@Bart (sarcasm, which I hope was obvious)

Mooseman

@Laura I'll raise you a SE shirt ;)

Undo

@AnnonomusPenguin I've been experimenting with plain keyword search for a loooong time, and I've come to the conclusion that it simply doesn't work here.

hichris123

@Bart But I clearly destroyed that modem! Why didn't I get a badge for it!

Bart

@hichris123 "I have the picture to prove it. Look, the scared family is in the background"

2

Undo

9:32 PM

> AAARGH stackexchange/review/modem-destruction/901823 is CLEARY a BAD AUDIT.

Annonomus Penguin

@Undo with general terms, yes, but is there are some terms that are generally not common in conversation (I guess it wouldn't work for discrimination against girls, per se)

hichris123

Is there anything salvageable from this podcast?

AstroCB

@hichris123 rm podcast.mp3

SomeKittens

This is always the best part of the podcast

Mooseman

90 minutes, not an hour :p

Conspicuous Compiler

9:34 PM

There was some cat talk early on. They can use that.

Undo

... I think you just cracked Joel up, @hichris123

hichris123

gold_badge++

Laura

@Mooseman an hour when the editor's done ;)

Jon Ericson

@hichris123 We always ask that and somehow our editor always pulls something out.

Anonymous

@Joel's encouragement on one of the old podcasts to look for people near you on Stack Overflow was responsible for me getting my serious programming job. Thanks podcast Joel!

Mooseman

9:35 PM

Well done, y'all

hichris123

@JonEricson Which people still... listen to. Weirdly.

Annonomus Penguin

@JonEricson I kinda feel bad for the editor. He must go home and say "I'm glad I never became a software developer! They're all crazy" (somewhat true!)

Undo

YES THAT

5

Jon Ericson

@AnnonomusPenguin That's funny. I always am glad I'm not an audio editor.

Chris Jester-Young

@JeremyBanks Got my last job from "looking for people near me on Stack Overflow"...that is, IRC on #stackoverflow. ;-)

Laura

9:36 PM

@Jaydles remember that thing about baseline being too low? "talked more than any guest"..but you guys don't really let guests talk usually :P

Undo

it died :(