V'dibarta Bam

Double AA

3:27 AM

forward.com/articles/170721/…

Isaac Moses

3:41 AM

@DoubleAA Shouldn't be a surprise. A contract is a contract. Good, though.

Double AA

@IsaacMoses You never know till you know. Especially with legal stuff.

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA You're right. I speak in terms of "should."

msh210

@IsaacMoses The usual rule in U.S. contract law is that if a contract is ambiguous then it's construed in favor of the party that didn't draw it up. (There are exceptions.) Who draws prenups up?

Isaac Moses

@msh210 I think these are designed to be unambiguous. The template is written by the RCA and signed and notarized by the couple mutually.

Meta-Man

1

Q: Can we see our personal stats?

Is it possible to view our personal stats on the site (number of x until level y or badge z)? If so, how? If not, is there any feature being worked on for this?

Isaac Moses

3:50 AM

Salutations, @goldPseudo

msh210

@IsaacMoses If all the wording is formula then I don't know whether the construed-against-the-drafter rule applies. But I don't know -- do you? -- whether all the wording is formulaic in these prenups: there may be sections where the drafter chooses what to put in.

(Anyway, IANAL.)

goldPseudo

@IsaacMoses Salaam and/or Shalom, as the case may be.

Isaac Moses

@goldPseudo =

@goldPseudo I mean, and to you, the same.

@msh210 I think it's pretty formulaic. We didn't happen to do one, but we were intending to do a "post-nup" on principle and just never got around to it, and I looked at the forms at the time. Seemed pretty straightforward. Just sign on the dotted lines.

msh210

@IsaacMoses All right then.

@IsaacMoses Re "designed to be unambiguous": Doubtless every major corporation with numerous lawyers on staff or contracted intends its contracts to be unambiguous also, but courts frequently rule otherwise anyway.

@goldPseudo Pax.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 OK, well, B"H.

msh210

3:59 AM

@IsaacMoses Yep.

Double AA

@hodofhod Is that your wording or borrowed?

@msh210 Read it yourself theprenup.org/pdf/Prenup_Standard.pdf

Or if you happen to be in California, you can read this version theprenup.org/pdf/Prenup_California.pdf

msh210

@DoubleAA Yeah, Isaac linked to it, above. Thanks.

Double AA

@msh210 ahh missed that.

HodofHod

5:00 AM

@doubleaa, assuming you're talking about the tag wiki, I started with the first line of wikipedias article, then rewrote it. I agonized over "(through negligence)"

msh210

5:25 AM

@DoubleAA I happen not to be at the moment, actually.

TRiG

2:21 PM

After watching this, and parallel discussions on Christianity SE, and a run-in I had myself on Islam SE, the question uppermost in my mind is Why is Islamic proselytism so inept?

Isaac Moses

2:53 PM

@TRiG 1) I don't know about the other interactions you mention, but I'd not necessarily generalize based on one person's actions here. 2) Are other faiths' proselytisms more ept (especially on SE)? 3) If so, one contributing factor may be shared cultural and linguistic heritage. A church (not to mention an individual preacher) steeped in American English (e.g.) is naturally going to have an easier time getting others who grew up in that culture/language to relate.

TRiG

3:11 PM

@IsaacMoses I've noticed a tendency (not just from Ali), to jump straight in, without any attempt to learn where the audience is coming from. As in, "Oh, you're an atheist? You must immediately drop everything you're doing and watch this hour-long lecture on YouTube." (Then again, such unthinking arrogance is hardy unique to Muslims.)

Isaac Moses

@TRiG Shall we band together and teach a seminar on effective interfaith proselytizing? Or at least a comedy sketch? "No, no, no. You're doing it all wrong. Give me that microphone."

rationalistjudaism.com/2013/03/the-locusts-are-coming-yum.html

msh210

14

A: Why aren't Yemenites an ed echad on locusts?

Ari Zivotofsky and I have worked hard to collect tens of testimonies from Yemenites and North Africans on the ID and traditions of which chagav (locust-like insect) is kosher. There is no question, as there are still many people alive who can remember them from their countries of origin. Birds a...

Isaac Moses

3:26 PM

@msh210 Right. I was about to go search that up :)

Seth J

3:52 PM

@Ali You. Are. In. The. Wrong. Room.

Monica Cellio

@Ali, what @SethJ said. If you have a question about Christianity, ask there.

@Ali since you're here I"ll say this now (also for @DhoweedYaAgov and others): do not bring the Islam-versus-Judaism discussion back here. We created a special room just for that. Once I figure out how I intend to move the extensive discussion from Friday/Saturday to there. V'dibarta Bam is not the right place for this. Last night I said this as my own personal opinion; I am now speaking as a moderator.

6

Seth J

4:09 PM

Gross...

blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-locusts-are-coming-yum

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Way ahead of you :) chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8354452#8354452

@SethJ Don't knock it till you've tried it.

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Heh. I didn't notice the link. I saw the Yemenite link immediately below it and scratched my head about where it came from. Then someone posted the above on Facebook.

@IsaacMoses Who says I haven't tried it?

Isaac Moses

4:26 PM

@SethJ Sorry. Have you?

Al Ummat مجاهد

→ 47 messages moved to Discussion about Islam's view of Judaism and assorted extended discussions

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Remind me to tell you next time I see you.

Isaac Moses

@AlUmmatمجاهد Thanks!

Monica Cellio

@AlUmmatمجاهد thank you!

Al Ummat مجاهد

no problem

I didn't do it last night for I was working

→ 6 messages moved to Discussion about Islam's view of Judaism and assorted extended discussions

msh210

4:39 PM

@AlUmmatمجاهد & thanks again. :-)

Al Ummat مجاهد

@msh210 no problem :)

Seth J

4:54 PM

Ugh. @msh210 @MonicaCellio @DoubleAA can't you guys do something about this?

msh210

@SethJ "this"=?

Seth J

@msh210 The continued participation of a particular "truth" seeker engaging in tiresome circles of reasoning and questioning.

msh210

@SethJ What we really need IMO is more 20k users.

Seth J

@msh210 How will that help?

msh210

yydl and @IsaacMoses are a little close. Lemme go see if there are some particularly good answers I can give bounties to.

@SethJ Mods are loath to vote to delete because their decisions are effective. 20k users can vote to delete.

More 3k users (who can vote to close) will help also.

Isaac Moses

5:08 PM

@msh210 I'm 4.4K away. You should instead encourage me to post more valuable content on Mi Yodeya

2

msh210

@IsaacMoses I hereby do so.

@msh210 Hm, no, We have a good number of 3k users. They just don't vote to close, I guess.

Isaac Moses

14

Q: Bli Neder Loophole

Who came up with the Bli Neder loophole of: Bli neder I will help you do X Or Bli neder I will etc... And the list can go on and on. Who came up with addingBli Neder which basically means "Without a promise" to things that seem like promises?! Does that remove one from the obligatio...

halacha words nedarim-shevuot

msh210

@IsaacMoses Wait, did you mean I should encourage you to post more content that is valuable, or that I should encourage you to improve the value of your posts?

:-)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 The former, mainly. I've posted almost as many answers on Mi Yodeya Meta as I have on Mi Yodeya, and also almost as many questions if you leave out mi-yodeya-series.

Seth J

@IsaacMoses @msh210, if you don't leave out mi-yodeya-series, you might be able to bump him up a bit more.

msh210

5:22 PM

@SethJ Pardon?

Seth J

@msh210 Unless you always upvote those questions, you can probably bump @IsaacMoses up a few points by upvoting the questions in the series.

@msh210 It would be artificial inflation, but it would achieve a desirable outcome.

msh210

@SethJ Ah, I see. I usually do upvote the m-y-series Qs. (In fact, my votes on IM's Qs have been cancelled twice that I noticed by the automatic vote cancellation script thingamabob.)

Isaac Moses

@SethJ What @msh210 said. Systematically upvoting someone's stuff is likely to get canceled (and rightly so, actually). Just vote your conscience on each post on its own merits. A bunch of us will B"H make it to 20,000 within the next year, probably.

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses indeed. Don't vote on people; vote on content. Reviewing existing material to see if there's soemthing bounty-worthy is one thing; systematically voting on things that you wouldn't vote on otherwise is another.

msh210

@MonicaCellio I agree completely. And my usual upvote on the m-y-series question du jour (or du quinzaine, or du mois) is because I like the series, not because I like the asker (though I do).

Monica Cellio

5:33 PM

@msh210 right, I assumed as much.

Seth J

@MonicaCellio Or call for new mod elections.

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Are you expressing insufficient confidence in the current team?

Monica Cellio

@SethJ and all: the following is an old question (almost 2 years) that is more of a survey, which is now discouraged on the network. I asked Seth to edit it to fit current norms and he rightly pointed out that doing so would invalidate existing answers. Thoughts on the best way to proceed?

1

Q: Is Selling חמץ Legitimate?

Do you sell your חמץ before פסח? Why or why not? This is meant, in part, as a form of a survey, but also as a collection for arguments both for and against. Please cite your sources.

halacha passover selling-mechirat-chametz

Ali

hi now i am unblocked

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Historical value lock

Monica Cellio

5:35 PM

@IsaacMoses sorry, didn't mean to stomp into a current disucssion.

@IsaacMoses that's what I was thinking. @SethJ?

msh210

Darn.

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio The best time to quell a revolution movement is just as it's about to get started.

Seth J

@IsaacMoses Not at all. @msh210 was expressing that there is an insufficient amount of (wo)man-power to effectively police the site sometimes.

@MonicaCellio Whatever you guys deem appropriate is fine with me.

@MonicaCellio BUT...

Can I reserve the right to re-ask the valuable part of the question without it being "dupe"d?

Monica Cellio

@SethJ if by the valuable part of the question you mean what are the sources/reasons on either side, I agree. That's what I wanted this question to be instead of what it is, except for the answers being there. :-)

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses Whaaaaaaa?

Isaac Moses

5:49 PM

@HodofHod What, you only eat things with endoskeletons?

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses No, I have an issue with eating things that are still recognizable as animals. Always had an issue with fish heads. One of my Rabbis likes to roast a whole lamb's head for RH; that sort of thing.

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod I'll bet you also don't shecht your own chickens at home.

msh210

@IsaacMoses @HodofHod ...or eat tongue that you saw before it was sliced.

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses Not at home, no. Other people's homes. I do kisui hadam every year, if that's what you're wondering.

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod So, you don't mind looking the bird in the eye, shechting it, and then cooking and eating it? You just don't want to still be able to look it in the eye when it's on your plate?

HodofHod

5:57 PM

@msh210 No tongue at all. But that's not because of the way it looks.

@IsaacMoses Pretty much. But then again, I'm not the shochet.

msh210

@IsaacMoses You remind me of the restaurant at the end of the universe.

HodofHod

I never claimed it made sense, did I?

msh210

@HodofHod Why? if I may ask.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 It's been a long time since I read that. Was there a guy expertly making sandwiches?

HodofHod

@msh210 I don't enjoy it. Not sure. Might be a texture thing.

Hey, did you know they call that mouthfeel these days? Just found out.

msh210

5:59 PM

@IsaacMoses There was a cow that came up to your table and spoke, describing her past diet and offering various parts of herself as particularly delectable.

...IIRC.

Seth J

So, if this isn't a comment....

1

A: Yosef "stretched his height" to conceal Rachel?

It occurs to me that Esau would have wanted to know where Rachel was had he not seen her at all, since the rumor at the time was Yaacov was the intended of Rachel he knew she existed. Secondly, why did Rachel bow at all if she was hidden from site. Based on that perhaps he only hid her main fi...

Monica Cellio

@msh210 yes, that's correct. (Well, some animal resembling a cow, anyway; I don't remember if Adams specifically named the species.)

Seth J

Who wants to edit it to actually be an answer? Any takers?

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod, you'd probably really not like the experience Pulitzer-Prize-winningly described here: laweekly.com/1998-10-15/eat-drink/man-bites-prawn/full (Caution: disgustingly describes probable violation of 'eiver min hachai prohibition)

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses No. Just....no.

:D

msh210

6:03 PM

@IsaacMoses That installment of that column, specifically, won a Pulitzer? Or the column generally? Or the paper's reporting on food even more generally? Or...?

Monica Cellio

@SethJ I'm not sure we can (there's missing info). I just left a comment.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 The author, for a body of work including that column. I think that column was one of the ones hilighted as his best work.

msh210

@IsaacMoses Interesting.

Seth J

@IsaacMoses See the last section of this piece wrt 'Ever Min HaHai and fish.

msh210

@SethJ @MonicaCellio I think it is one. The question assumes Rachel was hidden, the answer proposes that she was incompletely hidden, which even a six-year-old-can do. It's not a good answer, in that it doesn't explain how he covered enough of her to matter, but I think it's an answer.

Seth J

6:07 PM

@MonicaCellio I just don't like the fact that he's asking a question in his answer. Something about that completely removes the "Shem" Answer for me and necessarily relegates it to Comment status.

Isaac Moses

@SethJ Huh! I was choshed be-[relatively]-kasher! May he find his way to even greater levels of kashrut, and enjoy no less success in the process.

msh210

@IsaacMoses That installment is good.

Isaac Moses

@msh210 Certainly well-written.

msh210

@SethJ The question is included as evidence of his answer.

@IsaacMoses Yeah. I didn't mean "tasty". :-)

Seth J

@msh210 That's why I suggested a re-write. I'm just not up for it right now. I don't feel focused enough.

Isaac Moses

6:13 PM

@msh210 :) ... or "consistent with Halacha," I presume

msh210

@IsaacMoses er... right. That neither.

Nine people nominally here. (But three (I guess) of us don't count toward a minyan.)

Isaac Moses

@msh210 If you're trying to start an argument about personal status, we have another room for that :)

... and then their were seven. TTYL

Double AA

@msh210 Minyan for what?

msh210

@DoubleAA Anything (pretty much) that requires a minyan.

Double AA

@msh210 Like Kiddush haShem beRabim? Megillah?

msh210

6:25 PM

@DoubleAA Like those, yeah. Like I said, pretty much. :-)

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA We have another room for such arguments! ;^P OK bye for real.

Double AA

7

Q: When can you count ladies towards a Minyan?

I've heard that there are situations in which one can count the ladies towards a Minyan. Is that true? Which situations?

halacha women minyan

Monica Cellio

@msh210 I do in mine, but I don't expect you to agree. :-)

Double AA

@IsaacMoses I can start a "Discussion about Judaism's view of personal statuses and assorted extended discussions. Note that this room is not being heavily monitored by the Mi Yodeya moderators." room

msh210

@MonicaCellio :-) We can take this outside if necessary, @IsaacMoses.

Double AA

6:27 PM

It seems they're actually still arguing in there.

I'm so very glad they have their own room.

msh210

@DoubleAA Ja.

Monica Cellio

@msh210 it's ok. I'm not feeling the need for an argument. :-)

Double AA

@MonicaCellio I edited in the link

I'm applying a historical lock to this question. The OP (or anybody else) is welcome to ask the "what are the reasons/arguments for/against?" question separately from this survey. Such a question should not be closed as a duplicate of this one, though some answers here may also apply there. EDIT: The better version has now been asked here: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/26797/759 — Monica Cellio 45 mins ago

I can't add a comment because it's already locked

Seth J

@msh210 Actually, two of them are discussing that right now over there.

Double AA

If I ask the following, can we merge all the recent mishebeirach questions into it?

> God knows our intentions. How important is it -- in prayers such as Mishebeirach..., getting called up to the Torah, or other synagogue uses -- to be precise in naming the target of the prayer? Is it sufficient that no one standing there is confused as to the intent, or must we follow a specific pattern for the prayer to work?

Seth J

6:42 PM

Hey, mods, while you're all here, can we ban this cat? What's keeping us from purging him from MY?

@DoubleAA I vote no, but I may be biased.

Discussion about Islam's view of Juda…

Discussion about Islam's view of Juda…

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