TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Skillmon

12:26 AM

Do ptex and uptex still lack \expanded?

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon eptex and euptex :)

@Skillmon They still have their non-e-TeX versions

Skillmon

@PhelypeOleinik ahh, that explains things... :) and the testsuite actually uses the e-TeX versions... :)

@PhelypeOleinik thank you!

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon No problem :)

@Skillmon Needless to say I had the exact same problem about a year ago

cfr

5:20 AM

@DavidCarlisle base/fntguide.pdf has n?

cfr

5:58 AM

@DavidCarlisle No rollback whatever that is. Unless I've used it unwittingly.

@UlrikeFischer If I had a proper question, I'd ask one. Sadly 'please update these packages' isn't really a reasonable one.

cfr

6:17 AM

@UlrikeFischer But you're right I probably will have a question. Just don't understand it well enough yet.

David Carlisle

7:50 AM

@cfr ah I'll check..

David Carlisle

8:02 AM

@cfr I think it just got missed but I've checked on team list that there is not some subtlety that I'm missing.

TeXnician

8:26 AM

Just had a look at some TeX code from 1999 and found \newboolean{zzz}\setboolean{zzz}{false}. I wonder whether it was influenced by some z loving person :D

2

David Carlisle

@TeXnician isn't it the natural generic name to use (if you have a keyboard that has a z in a sensible place)

TeXnician

@DavidCarlisle It's from a German article, so I don't know yet ;)

Skillmon

I got a new palindrome during tlmgr update: [22/22, 00:46/00:46] update: collection-publishers [2k] (56920 -> 56927) ... done

@Plergux good morning sheep person!

Paulo Cereda

9:27 AM

@Skillmon ooh baa

Skillmon

9:38 AM

@PauloCereda good morning, Mr. Duck!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon hi mr. rabbit! <3

Plergux

@Skillmon Good morning! :) (you are rabbit person, yes?)

@PauloCereda Impostor! :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux oh no

/quacks in despair

@Plergux hi sheep person!

Skillmon

@Plergux Yellow sus!

Plergux

@Skillmon Yup, I vote for yellow! XD

Skillmon

9:46 AM

@Plergux @PauloCereda says so since my avatar depicts a creature resembling one, so yes, I'm a rabbit person :)

Paulo Cereda

4

@Plergux, @Skillmon ^^

Plergux

@Skillmon mmmmkaaaaaayyyy... :p

@PauloCereda LOL

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux mr. rabbit is nice :)

Rmano

Good morning all! A different morning when the xkcd comic moves you...

2

Paulo Cereda

ooh hi mr. squirrel

:)

Skillmon

10:16 AM

@Rmano hi!

@PauloCereda aww <3

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon <3

David Carlisle

@cfr github.com/latex3/latex2e/commit/… (thanks:-)

Paulo Cereda

11:24 AM

quack

Plergux

Bad joke of the day...
Q: what does a Mexican duck say?

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh no idea

Plergux

A: GUAC

Paulo Cereda

11:41 AM

@Plergux LOLOLOL

mickep

12:05 PM

Somebody here might find this email to the ConTeXt list interesting.

2

Paulo Cereda

@mickep ooh documentation

mickep

@PauloCereda Ooh indeed!

Plergux

12:24 PM

Szabolcs

I seem to be unlucky with text length, and more than once I ended up with just the first line a theorem or definition as the last line of a page. This is ugly. I used `\clearpage` on a case-by-case basis to improve it, but of course one must revise these `\clearpage`s every time the document changes enough to affect the line count.

Is there a better way, an automatic way?

I found questions asking about how to completely avoid a page break in a theorem, but that's not what I want. I just want to avoid a page break immediately after the first line.

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux LOL

@Szabolcs ooh hi mr. Mathematica bloke

Plergux

@Szabolcs I am personally not familiar enough with the theorem environment but usually I find that the easiest solution to these kinds of things is a rephrase of the surrounding text to make the offending environment stay on the right same page or go completely to the nest.

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Szabolcs Have a look at the nowidow package

Szabolcs

12:40 PM

Hi Mr Duck :-)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda important news from the BBC note the last item in particular

Skillmon

@Szabolcs still a case-by-case solution, but one which is better than \clearpage: Make a paragraph on the current page a line longer or shorter with \looseness Just put \looseness=1 at the start of a paragraph and TeX will try to make it a line longer, or use \looseness=-1 to make it a line shorter.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Rmano Maybe this would be interesting for your "externalise" discussion: github.com/misc0110/beamer-preview

David Carlisle

@Szabolcs I would have expected the theorem heading to have set the clubpenalty so it doesn't break after the heading line??, but otherwise you could use \needspace from package of that name to ensure there is room for two or three lines, or (for a one off document) adjust the wording to fit or ,...

Skillmon

12:52 PM

Something's odd with the landscape option of article for me:

\documentclass[landscape]{article}

\begin{document}
Test
\end{document}

If I load geometry this is fixed, but without it the landscape option seems broken.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon s/odd/expected/

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle ?

@DavidCarlisle was it always non-functional?

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Rmano or github.com/theHamsta/faster-beamer

2

David Carlisle

@Skillmon latex is older than pdf, and sometimes it shows....

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle so geometry it is :)

David Carlisle

12:54 PM

@Skillmon or graphics or hyperref (at least)

Paulo Cereda

ooh old people

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle since it's only about demonstrating the effect of \looseness, I guess it doesn't really matter :)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon it is functional but doesn't have the function that you expect; landscape switches round \textheight and \textwidth so the text block is typeset in landscape format but dvi has no notion of the external page size on which that text block is printed. pdftex does and some dvi dvrivers (including dvips) have \special{pagesize ... specials to specify that but pure latex doesn't know which back end is in use so can't do anything.

Skillmon

I just found a case where typesetting with \looseness=-1 will result in the paragraph being longer (no full line, though)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon that was the argument in 1993, in 2020 when pure latex secretly loads expl3 which loads l3backend which decides you are using dvips in this case, the argument is weaker than it was, but changing the layout of a large proportion of existing documnts comes with the usual fears

Skillmon

1:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle It's fine, I guess I just never had the "luck" of using landscape without any of the back-end loading packages... :)

David Carlisle

@Skillmon note it's wrong even without landscape, the default behaviour is to typeset a block with textwidth and margins set for US Letter but (for most people) printed on A4.

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle that one I knew. For my own stuff I usually use KOMA-classes anyways.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle at some time we will have to sneak it in ...

Szabolcs

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Looking, this seems to be what I wanted. Thanks!

Skillmon

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ah, now I dow.

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

1:06 PM

@Szabolcs There is also the widows-and-orphans package, but I have not yet tried that myself

Paulo Cereda

2

In otter news.... ^^

/ba dum tss

Skillmon

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas that one is about checking for them to then manually correct them, not as automated as nowidow, afaik.

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@PauloCereda more otter images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33400000/…

@Skillmon ah

Paulo Cereda

1:32 PM

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh

@JosephWright BJ got COVID'ed again?!

David Carlisle

2:05 PM

@PauloCereda no, just had a meeting with someone who has

Rmano

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Thanks, commented for the OP. I never used them --- not I feel I need them, with the includeonlyframes trick I am happy.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle comment in the docu from Hans: "\ifincsname:
As it had no real practical usage it might get dropped in LuaMetaTEX, ..."

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh ack

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas twitter.com/animalcrossing/status/1328699747297857539

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

2:25 PM

@PauloCereda ooh

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas looking forward to playing Switch games with you when I finally go to Germany :)

Szabolcs

@DavidCarlisle Thanks for the response! It is possible that there are issues with the LaTeX class I am using (iopart). It certainly does have several other bugs ...

@Skillmon Thanks for the tip! I went with the nowidow package

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

Love the reference to LotR: github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/11/…

@PauloCereda \renewcommand{\pandemic}{} :)

Paulo Cereda

2:42 PM

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas very nice!

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas I was chatting with a friend of mine and she said her 4-yo daughter was in love with LotR... I was like, "OH MY", but before I had the chance to say anything, she corrected herself, "oh I am sorry, I meant Harry Potter". I was, "oh..."

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@PauloCereda a lot of children do things they are later ashamed of :) Let's hope she'll learn

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas :)

When I was a duckling, I was a fan of

Spectreman

Spectreman (スペクトルマン, Supekutoruman) is a science fiction tokusatsu kaiju kyodai hero TV series produced by P Productions and Krantz Films and created by producer Souji Ushio. The series aired on Fuji TV from January 2, 1971 to March 25, 1972 with a total of 63 episodes (divided into three segments), not counting the pre-series pilot episode. This was the first major superhero show of the 1970s. == Plot == Banished from the peaceful and highly advanced simian Planet E, the mutant mad scientist Dr. Gori and his brutish gorilla-like assistant Karras (Ra in the Japanese version) search for a new world...

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Hah!

@UlrikeFischer Might be worth raising then

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

2:58 PM

@PauloCereda Oh, I've never herd of that! I loved

Meister Eder und sein Pumuckl

Meister Eder und sein Pumuckl (English: Master Eder and his Pumuckl) is a German children's series created by Ellis Kaut. Originally a radio play series of the Bavarian Radio in 1961, the stories were later adapted into books, a successful TV series of the same name, three films and a musical. Pumuckl is a red-haired Kobold and descendant of the Klabautermänner. He is invisible to people around him except for the master carpenter Eder with whom Pumuckl lives. He's also known in some parts of the world, especially in Asia as Adib. Pumuckl is one of the most popular characters in children's e...

Rmano

@PauloCereda Like my 15yo one --- HP & Queen right now. Could be (a lot) worse, like adolescent vampire novels and Justin Bieber, so I declare myself ok with that.

Paulo Cereda

@Rmano ooh :)

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh

Rmano

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas When I was really young I loved this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan and Goldrake. Then I discovered LotR and the "real" sf...

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I was going to blame you

Actually, this is a very good question — David Carlisle 14 mins ago

Ulrike Fischer

3:15 PM

@DavidCarlisle interesting effect. List spacing can be quite a pain.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer oh no, don't let @barbarabeeton see you say that, you will set her off moaning about lists again.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I can moan with her together. And about whatsits before lists.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer texdoc grfguide footnote page 6 "it's not my fault"

futuretextpublishing.com/first_edition_launch

^^^ who are these people? The book is intended to be the first annual edition of a publication
dedicated to all things text, and contains essays by 183 contributors
including Vint Cerf, Leslie Lamport, Barbara Beeton, and Peter Flynn.

Skillmon

3:30 PM

Today (2020-11-17) I got an email that the security checks for the acid and lye lockers will be started on 2020-11-16.

Phelype Oleinik

@Skillmon Looks like time lord shenanigans

Paulo Cereda

4:07 PM

@PhelypeOleinik Barrowman!

:)

cis

I need these scrambled egg holders from stainless steal.
But where can I get them?

Vienna Sausage Toast - Korean Street Food

►

Plergux

4:30 PM

@cis Aliexpress?

@Rmano Ah, you mean like Farscape? :p

Rmano

@Plergux :-O never saw that. Ouch!

@Skillmon They wanted to give it 32768 days in advance and got a 16-bit 2-complement integer...

Plergux

4:51 PM

@Rmano :p you need to see that if you like sci-fi. :)

Rmano

@Plergux this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_1999 was my first series when I was in my early teens. Got in love with one of the actress...

Plergux

@Rmano That, on the other hand, I have never seen :p

Paulo Cereda

Red Dwarf!

Plergux

@PauloCereda Yes! Smegging brilliant! :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux "Ev'rybody is dead, Dave"

Also, who wants some toast? :)

Plergux

5:06 PM

@PauloCereda :D

@PauloCereda Gaspacho soup!

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux LOL

Poline Sandra

5:37 PM

dear all, please I need help if someone knows polyglossia :tex.stackexchange.com/questions/571214/…

LaTeXereXeTaL

Popping in between classes to say hi.

Poline Sandra

?

@LaTeXereXeTaL you are with me. ?

seems so

@LaTeXereXeTaL 'ello

Greetings!

5:59 PM

Off to class!

Alan Munn

@PolineSandra I'm sorry but your question isn't very clear. The sample code doesn't seem very minimal and it doesn't load hyperref but you're asking about hyperref. Also, you're using fancychap which I don't think works with titlesec, and you're loading titleps, but you should be loading titlesec with the [pagestyles] option instead.

barbara beeton

6:20 PM

@Plergux -- Isn't gazpacho soup by definition?

Skillmon

@barbarabeeton perhaps, since soup is something hot (not spicy, warm), gazpacho soup is hot gazpacho?

Plergux

@barbarabeeton Probably. But Arnold Rimmer didn't know how to eat it he probably couldn't spell it either. :p (that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. :p)

barbara beeton

@Skillmon -- I suppose one could heat up gazpacho, but if I'm looking for something warm and tomatoey, tomato bisque is "souper", especially if it has inclusions of crushed (not cut!) tomato. (And there are also other really nice cold soups. vichysoisse, for instance.)

Skillmon

@barbarabeeton I prefer hot pumpkin soup (hot as in warm and as in spicy), or potato soup. In general, I prefer my soup warm :)

barbara beeton

@Skillmon -- both of those sound good. (Sadly, my ability to tolerate hot/spicy is diminishing as I age. I've had to give up a lot of Indian dishes because they give me "pizza mouth" that persists for several days and prevents me from eating anything even more than lukewarm. I don't know how people can survive, and even seek out, incendiary barbecue sauces.)

Skillmon

6:36 PM

@barbarabeeton I don't eat as hot as I used to as well :( My stomach hurts if I eat too spicy now (and I'm not even 30, I guess I'll have to eat bland when I'm older...), but I still enjoy it while I eat it.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' polygon.com/2020/11/17/21571659/…

@Plergux ooh

Skillmon

6:59 PM

4

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon yaaaaay

cis

@Plergux I will try, thx.

Skillmon

@PauloCereda only a few more, then I'm no longer in sync with the three.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon :)

Rmano

@Skillmon ouch, I don't think that the acidic component of gazpacho will do well if hot (well, if not really cold, as it should be). The same for salmorejo. Hot gazpacho for spaniards == pizza with pineapple for italians ;-P

Skillmon

7:17 PM

@Rmano so some would say delicious?

yo'

@PauloCereda I don't like it :-/

Paulo Cereda

@yo' sorry :(

yo'

@PauloCereda no need to be sorry :-) There've been many attempts to make a cool T*&J after the original ~180 episodes, but to no avail...

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :)

Canageek

8:05 PM

@JosephWright My formulas tend to be rather complicated, since organometallics. So lots of manually specifying if the hapto should have a hype or not, etc etc.

Weird question: Is there a way to reverse normal indent rules for a paragraph? I.e. no indent on the first line, and indents on all the rest?

Right now I've got the following two options:

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Canageek Like a description?

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Possibly? Not familiar with that environment, where do I look it up?

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

8:21 PM

\documentclass{article}


\usepackage{lipsum}

\begin{document}

\lipsum[2]

\begin{description}
\item[\hspace*{-\labelsep}] description description description description description description description description
\end{description}


\end{document}

@Canageek It is like enumerate or itemize, just with text

Canageek

OK, so I don't need a package for it

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

Or for your example:
\begin{description}
\item[Ramam] description description description description description description description description
\item[Emission] description description description description description description description description
\item[Excitation] description description description description description description description description
\end{description}

@Canageek unrelated, but I would unify the usage of old-style vs. normal figures

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas It is on the todo list, I'm going to have to ask @JosephWright how to get siunitx to use one type in tables and the other in text

Right now siunitx is using lining figures everywhere, but I want it to use old style/proportional in text, and lining/tabular in tables

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Canageek I'd use normal figures also for wavelenghts in text

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas TO many of them, it makes the numbers leap off the page

Which is why I moved to osf in the first place

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

8:29 PM

@Canageek Isn't this better than making the reader leap of their chair?

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas When they are all osf its not bad, right now its just a mix since ones that use \SI are one type and ones that aren't are the other. But if I turn that off, nothing lines up in tables that use the S column type (ie all of them)

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Canageek Maybe it is just because I'm not used to see osf figures in such a context, but the combination with a unit, e.g. the 611 nm, just looks odd to me.

(the space is also too large there)

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas A tiny bit? But its better then a page that looks like it has every 10th word capitalized.

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Canageek lining figures in a bit smaller font?

Canageek

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Could be? siunitx is using math font I think, whereas everything else is text font. I'll fix that all at once, once I've made my current deadline for sending a draft of this chapter to my comittee

Also: There shouldn't have been a unit after that string of numbers, so thanks, fixed that.

Downside of merging a bunch of papers which I formatted SLIGHTLY diffrently

Poline Sandra

9:02 PM

@AlanMunn I delete hyperref because it does not work, and I need an alternative if I delete fancy I will not get the style that want if you have idea to change please let me know

Canageek

Dammit, that chemmacros bug is still breaking enumerate

Sorry chemnum not chemmacros

Ulrike Fischer

9:32 PM

@Canageek which bug?

Canageek

@UlrikeFischer github.com/cgnieder/chemnum/issues/16

I found a temporary workaround if I set \setchemnum{compress=false}

It breaks some labels, but I can work with the spectra I need and put in the cross references for later, without having to wait several minutes each compile

Ulrike Fischer

@Canageek I remember, Phelype and me looked at it but I then I did go to bed.

Canageek

@UlrikeFischer and I checked, manually defining those values ahead of time with \cmpd* does not work

Ulrike Fischer

@Canageek try this:

\usepackage{chemnum}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_set_protected:Npn \chemnum_sort_subcompounds:NNNnnNN #1#2#3#4#5#6#7
  {
    \seq_clear:N #6
    \seq_clear:N #7
    \bool_if:NF #1
      {
        \seq_if_exist:cTF {g__chemnum_compound_#5_subcompounds_seq}
          {
            \seq_map_inline:Nn #3
              {
                \seq_if_in:cnTF {g__chemnum_compound_#5_subcompounds_seq} {##1}
                  {
                    \seq_put_right:Nn #6
                      { \chemnum_write_subcompound:NNnnn #1 #2 {#4} {#5} {##1} }

or perhaps you need zero also in the other branch:

\cs_set_protected:Npn \chemnum_sort_subcompounds:NNNnnNN #1#2#3#4#5#6#7
  {
    \seq_clear:N #6
    \seq_clear:N #7
    \bool_if:NF #1
      {
        \seq_if_exist:cTF {g__chemnum_compound_#5_subcompounds_seq}
          {
            \seq_map_inline:Nn #3
              {
                \seq_if_in:cnTF {g__chemnum_compound_#5_subcompounds_seq} {##1}
                  {
                    \seq_put_right:Nn #6
                      { \chemnum_write_subcompound:NNnnn #1 #2 {#4} {#5} {##1} }
                    \bool_if:NTF #2

Canageek

9:50 PM

@UlrikeFischer The first one seems to work

Odd, for some reading using externalize messes up my figures, now they all go from 300-840 instead of 260-800

oH, nevermind, I did those figures diffrently, odd

barbara beeton

10:22 PM

Miserable system! It just made me certify that I'm not a robot! I went to add an extra sentence to an answer (tex.stackexchange.com/a/571323/579) and it wouldn't take it, so I ended up with near-duplicates. Fie!

David Carlisle

11:17 PM

@PolineSandra that is not a useful way to post the question. The example should be an example of the problem. You just say "hyperref don't work" but you do not say what is wrong, do you get an error, do the links not work? what? And since the example you post does not use hyperref no one can find out what the error is or offer any help. Post a simpler example, that shows the problem.

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends