TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Canageek

00:18

Is there a table version of wrapfig?

Ulrike Fischer

@Canageek wraptable

Canageek

@UlrikeFischer safldkj yep, right there in the top line of the manual

egreg

00:39

@Canageek I don't know. ;-)

Canageek

02:38

Arggg

I found why something isn't working. I load kpfonts to get access to its greek letters for use with chemformula

eff, back ina bit

CPU fan just failed

Canageek

03:02

OK, back, CPU not cooking itself right now

Canageek

03:39

Spends 2 and a half hours figuring out a problem enough to write the question

and trying various fixes

Types JUST THIS into the title of my question: "siunitx listening to kpfonts instead of cfr-lm"

Top suggestion is the answer

/me hits head on desk forever

@JosephWright Any chance you could slip a hint about tex.stackexchange.com/a/40884/7880 into section 5.2 of the siunitx manual? >.>

cfr

04:11

\updefault is now up rater than n, but the docs still say n. Is this expected? @DavidCarlisle possibly?

Is there any reason I can't overwrite to n? (In a package & not just for me.)

Maybe I'm safer with TL2019 ....

@PauloCereda I don't allow the installer or tlmgr access to my home directory. Not liking TL2020 much so far :(.

Paulo Cereda

08:18

@cfr ooh

@cfr I have a user-owned directory in /opt, so I deploy everything there, including TL.

Ulrike Fischer

08:50

@cfr not sure what you mean but better leave it as is, and ask a proper question how to adjust this in a new LaTeX-the font handling has really changed a bit.

Paulo Cereda

09:03

Couldn't people just learn to read complex, convoluted, bad, spaghetti code so we could be spared to write proper documentation?

Plergux

@PauloCereda But writing the documentation is so much more fun than writing the code! :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux oh no

/quacks in despair

> A group of pandas is called an "embarrassment."

ooh

David Carlisle

09:31

@cfr it may be expected that not all documentation fully updated, but that doesn't mean it's right, which docs where? In theory if it is the main format doc then a github issue is the place but just pinging us here works as well.

@PauloCereda a group of ducks is called a large dinner

2

Plergux

@DavidCarlisle so is a group of sheep a Large dinner? :p

David Carlisle

@Plergux definitely

@cfr I just checked all the references to updefault in latex2e/base abd latex2e/base/doc and I think they all say the right thing that it is up unless you have used rollback when it is n ?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle checking documentation? How strange ; -)

David Carlisle

09:47

@UlrikeFischer only so I could check the git log and blame you

Gudrun

Good morning. Could I ask a question, please? I updated to mactex 2020 and I see in the terminal now, when running pdflatex the line "This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.21 (TeX Live 2020) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode"

Do I have to worry about this restricted \write18 enabled? I remember it caused in the past problems.

David Carlisle

@Gudrun restricted write18 has been the default for at least 10 years, so no extra worry now

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle: Okay, I have to continue searching for my error. :-)

David Carlisle

@Gudrun maybe you should show the error message?:-)

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle I am trying to produce a minimum example.

@DavidCarlisle: I don't know why it works now, but it works.

David Carlisle

10:01

@Gudrun obviously I fixed it?

Gudrun

But I have an understanding problem. I have created a script.plt that I execute with gnuplot. I use as output tikz as output terminal.
set term tikz size 407.65pt,251.95pt standalone header "\\usepackage{MyGnuplotLaTeX}" font "\\rmfamily,12pt"

But I never understood what I am doing.
I always put the files
gnuplot-lua-tikz-common.tex
gnuplot-lua-tikz.tex
gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty
in the local folder where the script.plt is. But maybe this is wrong?

Now I see I got a new file as well t-gnuplot-lua-tikz.tex

I have never understood what I am doing here and I am angry with myself that I don't understand it.

@DavidCarlisle It helps to talk about it definitly.

David Carlisle

@Gudrun despite the fact I claimed credit above I am not sure I can help, I've never used the gnuplot tikz output. But if gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty and friends are fixed files not depending on this specific plot you should be able to install them in your tex path and not have to copy them each time?

Gudrun

I am embarrassed, I don't know this is done at all. Could I ask for advise, please?

In this context I had a problem in 2015 and had already then understanding problems. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/267031/…

David Carlisle

@Gudrun @egreg says there that those files are not fixed but generated each time. So in that case just copying them along with the generated tikz picture probably makes sense.

Gudrun

I apologise, I don't understand.

I can see now that gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty is different, \ProvidesPackage{gnuplot-lua-tikz}%
[2020/06/07 19:26:00 (rev. 114) GNUPLOT Lua terminal style]
Before there was an old version mentioned.

Maybe it is not so clever to copy them.

David Carlisle

10:15

@Gudrun I know nothing at all about this but in the answer that you reference egreg says

If you want to make the generated test_graph.plt.tex file compilable, you need to have those generated files along with it.

which implies that you should let gnuplot make new versions of these each time, rather than doing what I suggested above of installing fixed versions in your local tex tree.

@Gudrun you will need to use consistent versions, so within a document use the same version of the .sty for all the generated images, and use the version that gnuplot made for that plot. You probably can not take an old generated tikzpicture and assume it will work with the new version of the the .sty file

Gudrun

Okay!

I will make another test. I put this script.plt and my MyGnuplotLaTeX.sty in one new folder and see what happens. MyGnuplotLaTeX.sty contains only standard usepackages.

That did not work as LaTeX complains now: ! LaTeX Error: File `l3backend-pdfmode.def' not found.

But I can see that the files:
gnuplot-lua-tikz-common.tex
gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty
gnuplot-lua-tikz.tex
t-gnuplot-lua-tikz.tex
Are automatically generated in this new folder, probably from gnuplot.

I understand no need to copy them.

I am currently updating my latex distribution as well, with sudo tlmgr update --self --all, maybe this causes a problem

Ulrike Fischer

@Gudrun something it not really up-to-date, probably you need to recreate the formats, or get rid of a local format. Which engine are you using? pdflatex? lualatex?

Gudrun

I could show you the whole content of script.plt

#!/usr/bin/gnuplot

basename='test_graph.plt'
end3='.tex'

set grid
show grid

set mytics 5
set mxtics 5

set xlabel "x"
set ylabel "y" offset -0.5

f(x)=sin(x)
plot f(x) with lines #ls 1

set term tikz size 342.435pt,228pt standalone create style font "\\rmfamily,12pt"

set output basename.end3
replot
set output
system(sprintf('pdflatex %s%s', basename, end3))

The idea is that tikz creates a tex.file and this is later compiled with pdflatex to create the picture

Ulrike Fischer

if you are using pdflatex, what do you get if you run in a command line kpsewhich --engine=pdftex pdflatex.fmt?

Gudrun

10:33

@UlrikeFischer /usr/local/texlive/2020/texmf-var/web2c/pdftex/pdflatex.fmt

Ulrike Fischer

@Gudrun looks ok. And with kpsewhich --engine=luatex lualatex.fmt?

Gudrun

Empty output, no return

It just jumps into the next line of the terminal

Earlier I did "sudo tlmgr update --self --all " maybe I should wait until this is finished? It is still running.

it is finished

But still no output with kpsewhich --engine=luatex lualatex.fmt

That is funny. Now my script.plt runs through without any problems again :-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@Plergux oh no

David Carlisle

@Gudrun maybe I fixed that as well (and I wasn't even reading this page:-)

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle :-) The test script runs through, the actual script not. I try to figure out what is wrong there now.

Ulrike Fischer

10:40

@Gudrun well if it still was running the formats weren't created yet, so waiting was a sensible hting.

Gudrun

@U

@UlrikeFischer You mean the updating process could have interfered ?

Ulrike Fischer

@Gudrun sure, if the update just updated for example l3backend, then l3backend-pdfmode.pdf would have been gone, but the format wouldn't know this yet. If you update better don't interfere, at least if the update contains files related to the format (e.g, latex or l3kernel and similar).

Plergux

@PauloCereda and a group of cows is a huge dinner :p

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh

@Plergux that definitely simplifies things :)

It's like the colour naming thingy the other day

I can only name 6 colours

I suspect I might be somewhere in the colour blindness spectrum thingy

Plergux

@PauloCereda well, technically you can probably name hundreds of colours with six names :p

@PauloCereda and you can just test it :p color-blindness.com/…

Gudrun

10:47

@UlrikeFischer
Thank you.
The simple script.plt works now. I trying to make the more complicated plot work. It has a problem. Suddenly gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty is not created anymore on its own. I deleted all the files created through gnuplot from this folder explicitly. After all, it had worked in the folder with the simple script.plt

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux ooh let me check

David Carlisle

@Gudrun the old post you link to has the comment In order to create style files in the working directory automatically, the option createstyle is necessary: set out "test.tex" set term lua tikz latex createstyle plot sin(x)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda that's more than the typical monochrom man ;-)

Gudrun

Currently it looks like that
set term tikz size 407.65pt,251.95pt standalone header "\\usepackage{MyGnuplotLaTeX}" font "\\rmfamily,12pt"

opposed to

set term tikz size 342.435pt,228pt standalone create style font "\\rmfamily,12pt"
causes a problem. But this MyGnuplotLateX just contains
\usepackage{amsmath} % More math formatting
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{graphicx} % Include graphics
\usepackage{tgtermes} % use termes instead
\usepackage{csquotes}
\usepackage[english]{babel}
\usepackage{blindtext}
\usepackage{upgreek}
\usepackage{siunitx}
\usepackage[version=3]{mhchem}

% Latin Modern (similar to CM with more characters)

to add nice symbols and math symbols.

@DavidCarlisle I am sorry, I don't understand.

Plergux

@UlrikeFischer Actually, my research has shown that there isn't really any difference between men and women when it comes to colour naming naked colours. Individual differences within each group are often greater than between groups. And one might also ask how much of this perceived difference is created by culture. You could start by listing the colours available to each in clothing.

Gudrun

10:54

@DavidCarlisle Found the entry, reading, trying to understand.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh :)

Gudrun

It seems with
set term tikz size 342.435pt,228pt standalone create style font "\\rmfamily,12pt"
it would run through (if there are no commands used from the siunitx usepackage included)

But as soon as I want LaTeX Symbols with another usepackage like siunitx, the files automatically generated by gnuplot (e.g. gnuplot-lua-tikz.sty) are not automatically generated anymore.
That would use the command
set term tikz size 407.65pt,251.95pt standalone header "\\usepackage{MyGnuplotLaTeX}" font "\\rmfamily,12pt"

@DavidCarlisle Thank you.
It works with set terminal lua tikz size 407.65pt,251.95pt standalone header "\\usepackage{MyGnuplotLaTeX}" font "\\rmfamily,12pt"
Looks like I had to add the word lua now

@DavidCarlisle and @UlrikeFischer Thank you, thank you for your patience.

@DavidCarlisle Was there a change from set term tikz to set terminal lua tikz

Ulrike Fischer

11:24

@Plergux the reference to "monochrom" was a internal joke, but beside this: I'm quite bad at remembering color names, mostly because I don't much care about all the articles telling me which one is currently modern. So in examples I normally stick to red, blue, yellow with a bit maroon or brown and sometimes magenta, but I don't think that the fact that I'm missing the words has any relation to my ability to actually see various colors.

David Carlisle

@Gudrun I have never used either, i have no idea. Obviously the lua variant can only work with luatex, the other will work with anything

Gudrun

@DavidCarlisle Then you know more than me. I had no realised it. I am grateful for your help!

Plergux

@UlrikeFischer Yeah, I know. Just being pedantic (and my brain is oozing this stuff after almost six years of researching it!) :p No, the whole Pantone "colour of the year" and similar stuff is ridiculous. Like people talking about they've invented new colours. They've not invented anything, just picked out a particular hue of the spectrum to have a new fashionable name. #petpeeve :p

Paulo Cereda

ooh Panettone

oh wait, you said Pantone

oh

Gudrun

Luckily the spectrum is large and offers many colours of the year.

Paulo Cereda

11:34

/sad quack

Rmano

@Plergux oh, wow. (a pity it's in Flash, so it will be inaccessible sooner than later). It confirmed what my wife says, that I can't separate blue from green reliably ;-)

Joseph Wright

@Canageek I never have issues: I guess because I use it for simple inline things (ChemDraw for schemes) with quite a conservative font set up

@Canageek Taking a look

Plergux

@Rmano Well, that actually is a well known phenomena and source of much arguing in this family as well. I tend to see green rather than blue, but both my son and my husband say blue when the hue is in the mid-range between green and blue. With us this also applies to ranges between green-brown, and green-yellow, where I tend to say green where they would pick brown/yellow. This does not count as a deficiency but rather a symptom of individual differences in perception :)

Paulo Cereda

breen and... glue?

oh that didn't work

Plergux

@PauloCereda heh heh heh...

@PauloCereda lol

Ulrike Fischer

11:43

@Rmano I already can't access it, it downloads a swf but I have no player for it.

Plergux

@Rmano this ^^^ is a typical colour of dispute here, where I would say "definite green" but son and husband would demand "blue" :p

Rmano

@UlrikeFischer in ubuntu is just installing a package and restarting firefox, and then give permission

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux BLUE

Rmano

@Plergux Yep! It's exactly the jersey I have, which is clearly blue for me (and my daughter!) and clearly green for my wife!

Ulrike Fischer

@Plergux blue (turkis)

Paulo Cereda

11:47

@Plergux it's spelt 'blue' but pronounced 'Throatwobbler Mangrove'. :)

Plergux

@PauloCereda :D

Rmano

Plergux

@Rmano :D yeah, that's what happens. I used to have shoes this colour that I would wear when I gave lectures on the colour stuff and then at some point I would ask people what colour they were. :p

@UlrikeFischer Yes, turquoise is a good get-out so you don't have to choose, but then if you ask whether turquoise is a sub-specification of blue or green you start the same argument again XD

Rmano

@Plergux we decided in the family to call it "teal" (it has no direct translation in italian, so we can imagine whatever we want).

Plergux

@PauloCereda lolololololol

@Rmano That's very diplomatic of you :D

Ulrike Fischer

11:53

@Plergux I wasn't trying to avoid the choice, it is clearly blue for me, but blue of subcategory turquoise.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh complex stuff

@Rmano ooh a needle thingy

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer call it (5,134,165)

Rmano

@DavidCarlisle hmmm --- there's a pattern in it (or at least I think) so it's not so easy ;-)

Plergux

@DavidCarlisle why not #0081a1?

David Carlisle

@Plergux the colour picker i used gave me the decimal and i couldn't be bothered to convert to hex? not that my decimal is the same as your hex in any case, as Rmano commented your image wasn't a solid colour so it depends where you pick...

Rmano

12:03

@Plergux I think I'll love to read your thesis, yes. Colors fascinate me. how do you describe a complex color with this kind of random patter? An (R,G,B) distribution?

Plergux

@DavidCarlisle i entered both into my colour picker and I can't tell any difference. :p

@Rmano Yay! :p When I'm done writing it I'll have to translate it into English but it will be an incentive :D

David Carlisle

@Plergux I'm a mathematician: I look at the numbers

Plergux

@DavidCarlisle ah, I see. I don't really do numbers. I just barely managed the distributional analysis for my thesis :/

Rmano

My first program I shared in proto internet around 1990 was a program to reduce the number of colors in a GIF to save space and trying to have the most similar visual appearance... :-( can't find it on google and probably it's wrong...

Plergux

@Rmano aaah, 1990's internet was amazing, wasn't it? All the lovely blinking text XD

Paulo Cereda

12:09

@Plergux skavenger.byethost8.com/homerswebpage

Plergux

@PauloCereda lol

Gudrun

14:21

I wish you all a good weekend. Thank you again. Take care. Bye

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@UlrikeFischer Could you do me a favour and check which version of the tikzlings is in miktex?

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas sure wait a minute.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas looks outdated I get 2019/04/07 v0.2

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@UlrikeFischer Thanks for checking! I'll try to open an issue to get this updated

@Plergux ^^^ seems to be indeed a miktex problem

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

14:54

@Plergux Clearly blue - as a sheep you are biased towards green colours for finding yummy clumps of grass :) [ducks are of course totally unbiased towards water blue colours :) ]

Plergux

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas yes, it's working now I've got the 0.3 from CTAN :) (see mail :p)

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas :D That must be it! Green is also my favourite colour :p

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas quack

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@Plergux Did not yet get mail, but nice to hear it is working!

@Plergux Any chance you are involved in thunderbrid? They changed the colour of the dot for unread messages from blue to green.

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh a TB user!

Plergux

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas heh heh heh... no, then all of it would be green. :p

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

15:06

@PauloCereda I had to switch. The computing centre of my university did not like the ssl version used by my previous mail program.

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas TB is awesome <3

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@PauloCereda I'm not so happy with 78. In the previous version I could remove these buttons, with 78 they are back and I don't find any way to remove them :(

Paulo Cereda

oh

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

... and I preferred the blue dots :)

Paulo Cereda

ooh :)

Alan Munn

15:14

Newton’s Daunting Masterpiece Had a Surprisingly Wide Audience, Historians Find

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn maybe it's good for crushing large bugs and insects. :)

Plergux

15:30

@PauloCereda oh no! :p

Paulo Cereda

16:05

@Plergux oh no

@Skillmon twitter.com/scale_banana/status/1327642141770838016

Skillmon

@PauloCereda those paws look a bit like duck feet :)

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh

TeXnician

17:33

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas If you want to at least shrink it have a look at addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/…

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@TeXnician Thanks a lot! Better than nothing :D

TeXnician

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas I had the same problem with TB 78. Although at home I'm now using emacs for mailing so I don't have any problems with buttons :D

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@TeXnician I bet David will be pleased to read this :)

Skillmon

@TeXnician but how do you compose emails without an editor? :)

Paulo Cereda

lalalalala Thunderbird is awesome, cannot hear other options lalalalalala

Skillmon

17:46

@PauloCereda mutt.

Paulo Cereda

We ducks are very good at lalalala'ing. :)

@Skillmon ooh mother in German

Oh wait

TeXnician

@Skillmon Well, there's some elisp for that ;)

Paulo Cereda

ooh Mexican Lisp

Beware of El Lisp

/Mariachi song follows

Skillmon

@PauloCereda Reminds me of Simpsons' El Barto.

Plergux

@PauloCereda I just pictured Danny Trejo with a lisp. Am now dying XD

Paulo Cereda

17:48

@Skillmon :)

Skillmon

@PauloCereda and later Homer as El Homo... :)

Paulo Cereda

@Plergux LOL

@Skillmon oopsie

Skillmon

@PauloCereda Well, if Bart calls himself El Barto.

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

18:06

@TeXnician ^^^ total success! Thanks for the tip with this addon!

Paulo Cereda

18:17

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas ooh

samcarter_preparing_for_xmas

@PauloCereda 78 is getting less bad :)

Paulo Cereda

twitter.com/santiagomayer_/status/1326614495356092416

Paulo Cereda

18:56

2

ooh foxes

LaTeXereXeTaL

I wonder what I will learn today?

Plergux

19:33

@LaTeXereXeTaL you will learn the Icelandic word for "rhubarb jam": rabbarbarasulta. :p

LaTeXereXeTaL

@Plergux Excellent! I love strawberry rhubarb pie. Until now the only Icelandic I knew was Björk.

Plergux

@LaTeXereXeTaL "jarðarberja og rabbarbarabaka" :p (btw, Björk means "birch").

LaTeXereXeTaL

@Plergux I can't even begin to approach her last name!

Plergux

@LaTeXereXeTaL Well, incidentally, we have the same last name. Not because we're related, but because our fathers had the same name ;) it's sort of "goohth-moonds-dohwtter" :p

Alan Munn

@Plergux Although there's so few of you, aren't you all related? :)

Plergux

19:43

@AlanMunn heh heh heh... I could try to deny this, but my grandparents were first cousins, sooooo....

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda two legs?

Alan Munn

@Plergux Although there's an interesting genetic split between men and women Icelanders, if I recall correctly: women have far more Celtic genetic markers than men.

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz oh

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda did you draw it yourself?

How did you start?

LaTeXereXeTaL

20:25

Wow that's incredible! LOL

barbara beeton

21:46

@Plergux -- That's pretty close to "teal". (But I can't tell the difference between a blue-winged and a green-winged teal. Sigh.)

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends