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yo'
12:52 AM
@CarLaTeX avocado would be better matched with maple syrop :)
 
 
1 hour later…
2:15 AM
@Skillmon Some syntax is only definable using \def? I didn't know that.
@DavidCarlisle Oh
 
 
2 hours later…
4:01 AM
@FaheemMitha Yes, because \def allows delimited arguments, which can't be done using e.g. \newcommand.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:06 AM
@AlanMunn I see. Thanks.
 
6:32 AM
@DavidCarlisle I'd advocate to make A4 the standard, as that's a sensible standard used in the world, and not only in one country...
3
@DavidCarlisle Also, you know I had to complain if there was an opportunity that someone would complain :)
 
6:50 AM
Does the word "parsable" exist in English?
 
7:20 AM
@Skillmon Yes. Though I would be more likely to use parseable.
 
@FaheemMitha oh really? Why (genuinely curious)?
 
7:50 AM
@Skillmon yes but what do we tell people with an archive of 35 year's worth of documents that have \documentclass{article}\setlength{\oddsidemargin}{...} that look right on A4 that suddenly shift sideways....
 
8:03 AM
@DavidCarlisle the question is how many of these documents don't use graphicx or hyperref or any other package / font that has changed over the last 35 years and are actually recompiled today. E.g. wouldn't they perhaps break anyway due to the utf8 default?
 
@UlrikeFischer I know. That is exactly the question. But what is the answer? :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I suspect it isn't so much. When were "page size" commands added to the graphics drivers?
 
@UlrikeFischer in the beginning (or at least for those drivers where I knew how to do it) (I think, I could check) I think it was already in Sebastian's epsfig for latex209
@Skillmon It's hard to know in English: parse-parsable, manage-manageable,somethingendingine-somethingwithorwithoutanedependingonwhatlooksright
 
@DavidCarlisle then I would say the number of document which don't already set the page size correctly is rather small. Every author will have used graphicx or epsfig at some time and if this has a negative side effect they will have learned to use [a4paper].
@yo' arev is a legacy font package for pdflatex. The combination with unicode-math which works only with the unicode engines doesn't make sense. You can use unicode-math with beamer but the number of unicode sans serif math fonts is rather restricted. E.g. ctan.org/pkg/firamath and ctan.org/pkg/gfsneohellenicmath
 
8:23 AM
@Skillmon No particular reason. Just feels like a preferred spelling option to me. Both are recognized variants.
I guess I just prefer a direct derivative of 'parse'?
 
@AlanMunn AAAARRRGHHHH
@JosephWright I think I know why I had that problem (not up-to-date pdflatex-dev format). In the update this morning tlmgr did start building formats, but it bumped out on an error on jadepdftex or something similar (no idea what it is , as an aside ;-) ). So I had to manually use fmtutil-sys --all which seems to continue after the errors... (scrolled too fast).
Is there a fast way to disable formats I never use in TeXLive?
 
8:45 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh goal
@barbarabeeton one for your TB column, perhaps? luciole-vision.com/luciole-en.html
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@AlanMunn holy cow
 
9:05 AM
@DavidCarlisle 42?
 
@DavidCarlisle The answer is 42.
@PauloCereda ohhhh. ^^^
@DavidCarlisle so you'd advocate for "parsable". Then I should probably use "parseable" :)
 
@Skillmon oooooooh <3
@Skillmon I have the four books. :)
 
@FaheemMitha ⅆparse/ⅆe
 
9:24 AM
@PhelypeOleinik I now include a small example using \ekvsneakPre. Any comments?
 
@Skillmon oh I read snake instead of sneak...
 
@UlrikeFischer One for the team list I suspect
 
@PauloCereda ahhhh.
 
@Skillmon :)
Jun 30 '17 at 19:15, by Paulo Cereda
@ChristianHupfer German snakes go hißßßßßßßßßßßßßß
 
@PauloCereda /nervous rabbit sounds
 
9:28 AM
/runs
@Skillmon oh no
 
@PauloCereda /remembering that I'm no ordinary rabbit
 
@Skillmon ooh a super rabbit :)
 
@PauloCereda /aggressive killer rabbit sounds to drive the snake off
 
@DavidCarlisle ?
 
@FaheemMitha you asked for a derivative
 
9:31 AM
Oh, a derivative. Never mind.
@DavidCarlisle That's very helpful. Thanks.
 
@FaheemMitha we try to serve
 
@Skillmon The Vorpal Rabbit?
 
Sometimes I have difficulties recognizing Leibnitz's notation out of context.
@JosephWright Snicker-snack.
 
@JosephWright ooh
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
@FaheemMitha that's why unicode has ⅆ a specific differential d character
 
9:40 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's what tipped me off. Though I hear it is not without controversy.
Slanted versus straight.
@PauloCereda ooh?
 
@FaheemMitha ooh indeed
 
@FaheemMitha and double struck, it is &differentiald; in html
 
I think this is as momentous as where to break a boiled egg.
@DavidCarlisle double struck? You mean with two parallel double lines?
 
@FaheemMitha yes
@FaheemMitha it is @egreg's favourite notation.
 
9:59 AM
@DavidCarlisle That's nice.
 
@DavidCarlisle uh-oh
 
@JosephWright More the Rabbit of Caerbannog.
@JosephWright why does \cs add its argument to the list of places where it is described? I think only function should do so.
 
10:30 AM
Hello everyone,

Until receiving a response from this answer's https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/521824/2288 author, I would be grateful if someone could help me replace latexmk with an abstract lualatex command in the case of Output One File to have something like lualatex -synctex=1 -shell-escape -interaction=nonstopmode
 
10:53 AM
@Diaa I don't think I understand the question (but I'd not have spaces in filenames and be wary of using shell escape, that is disabled by default with good reason)
 
11:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle I need spaces for enhancing the readability. For the question itself, the answer's author used latexmk for compiling the document when answers option is enabled. However, I need to replace it with, for instance, lualatex -synctex=1 -shell-escape -interaction=nonstopmode in the code entitled Output One file at the end of answer.
 
@Diaa no one needs spaces in filenames (and in a world where spaces are used to separate command-line arguments, they make all processing pipelines much more complicated for so little gain)
@Diaa surely can't you just replace the comamnd in the shell escape line? but latexmk would run luatex 2 or three times to resolve cross references, do you need to do that here or just run luatex once?
 
@DavidCarlisle For adding mp3, only the attachfile/attachfile2 method comes to mind. The Legacy Sound annotation of the PDF spec only allows for wav and a few other ancient formats in a Acrobat Reader compatible fashion
 
@Diaa Given that the code in the answer uses shell escape I would not run it on this machine unless I fully understood every line so I can't suggest exact code changes, sorry. If you run tex code copied from the internet with shell-escape then you are allowing anyone to run any command on your machine, with your full access rights.
@AlexG thanks.
 
@DavidCarlisle And attachfile requires proper configuration of the OS, to start the right external application on click.
 
@AlexG oh I thought you'd have to detach the file then play it "by hand" so you could in theory make it play with a single button, at least in acrobat?
 
11:32 AM
@yo' Have you ever tried panettone with maple syrup? Delicious! :)
 
@CarLaTeX and Nutella pizza
 
@PauloCereda no
 
@CarLaTeX Nutella pizza is good!
@PhelypeOleinik ^^
@CarLaTeX texdoc texplate , second footnote.
 
@PauloCereda Whatever with Nutella over is not pizza
@PauloCereda Oh no! LOL
 
@PauloCereda you could point readers of the thread above to the 5th footnote
 
11:51 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
12:13 PM
@Skillmon Amazing! And surprisingly simple; not even close to the 42 lines you advertised :-)
@Skillmon Thanks!
@PauloCereda Nutella pizza \NotEnoughEmph{is} good :-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik YEEEEES
 
@PauloCereda By the way, in the TeXplate manual, Introduction, 1st paragraph, "typographic additions" -> "typographic addiCtions"?
 
@PhelypeOleinik moar tpyos. :) Thank you!
 
@PauloCereda You're weclome :-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik ooh <3
 
12:25 PM
Oct 13 '18 at 18:59, by Phelype Oleinik
@PauloCereda Neither did I. I always tyep everythinh correcly :)
 
12:45 PM
@PhelypeOleinik you should use latex-dev that allows you to have as many nested emphs as you want, all with different styles
 
@DavidCarlisle Like Nutella pizza \really{\really{\really{is}}} good? ;-)
2
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@PhelypeOleinik ooooooooooh
 
@DavidCarlisle The hyperref version that is on (ctan.org/incoming) is the same as git...I don't see any changes in the repository :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL can you access it from there? I didn't think that was possible
 
@PauloCereda Hola, bonito día para los patos
@DavidCarlisle Nope, I can only see it, the strange thing is that I don't see this (in git) any new tag
 
12:51 PM
@PauloCereda The top two starred messages in this chat are about Nutella on pizza. @CarLaTeX would beat me right now :-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik yeah, I had at first done it with \ekvsneak instead of \ekvsneakPre and had then to loop over it to get the last key...
 
@PhelypeOleinik Hola...como estás :)
 
@PabloGonzálezL Bien, y tu? :-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik Jugando con git :)
 
@Skillmon Ooh, that makes sense
 
12:53 PM
@PabloGonzálezL I tag after it has been accepted by ctan
 
@PabloGonzálezL Hola amigo! Como estás?
 
@PabloGonzálezL Hacendo problemas para @DavidCarlisle resolver (my spanish is awful :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh, I get it
 
@PabloGonzálezL nosotros brasileños (yo e @PhelypeOleinik) somos muy buenos con portuñol. :)
 
@PhelypeOleinik jejeje...Yes (mi ingles no es muy bueno)
 
12:55 PM
@PabloGonzálezL Sí: el pato asado es bueno en un día frío de invierno.
 
@PauloCereda Jajajja...
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
@DavidCarlisle Y también en un caluroso día de verano :)
 
@PauloCereda Oh, mi portuñol es perfecto ;-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik yo same. :)
 
12:57 PM
@PhelypeOleinik @PabloGonzálezL @PabloGonzálezL to even things up you should communicate in Italian. (Just put o at the end of every word and drop the accents:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ho, a quick course for Italian...I don't know what @egreg thought of this :)
 
@DavidCarlisle The same way as writing german you just remove some spaces and add ß and ü :-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik A quick course to write German... I wonder what @UlrikeFischer will say?
 
@PhelypeOleinik yeßofcoürse
 
1:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle It's easy to translate Italian into Spanish: add some final “s”.
 
yo'
@egreg and it's easy to switch to French then: do not pronounce them.
 
@yo' oddly no one is saying Czech is a simple matter of adjusting a few word endings.
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle well, we say that Slovak is formed from Czech by permutation of letters. However, the Slovaks say the same about Czech.
 
@yo' that's the good thing about group operations, they are invertible
 
@DavidCarlisle Remove as many vowels as you can and a bit more.
 
yo'
1:59 PM
@egreg :D And remember that each single consonant shall be pronounced (unless it shan't)
 
So that's linguistics done then, @AlanMunn just arrived too late.
 
@DavidCarlisle As far as I remember, on the first click in Acrobat a dialogue opens, giving you the choice to either open or save to disk the attachment on the second click.
 
@DavidCarlisle Deep learning in action.
 
@AlexG ah OK I see. Does the PDF 2 future suggest having more native pdf support for video and sound or is some container like flash the way it will be?
 
@AlanMunn siéntate cerca de la ventana => sienta-se pierto de la janela (@PhelypeOleinik)
 
2:11 PM
@PauloCereda Tu és muy fluente en portuñol, señor Cereda :D
 
@DavidCarlisle I found a reference in the adobe documentation that suggested that it has some native support for a number of audio/video formats but couldn't test as I have no idea how to get suitable samples.
 
@PhelypeOleinik LOL
@PhelypeOleinik Quem te contou? => Hot told?
 
@PauloCereda Oh, my. That's bad :D
@PauloCereda There was this page, when I used facebook, that had tons of this mis-translations. I loved it :-)
 
@PauloCereda Any particular reason in 'arara' to show the dates 01/21/2020 and not in the form 2020/01/21?
 
2:27 PM
@PabloGonzálezL Sucking up to the Americans again.
 
@PabloGonzálezL Uh-oh. One for the next release. Thank you for spotting it.
@AlanMunn Patos detetives
 
@PauloCereda s/et/ef/ :)
 
@PauloCereda or even better with a -
 
@AlanMunn you are mean
@DavidCarlisle ooh more dates
 
2:51 PM
@Skillmon -- Suggesting making A4 the standard is all very well, and I agree that there are probably more individual users for whom that is the local norm. However, the original TeX has "lettersize" built in, and some major publishers base their production on that convention. You're asking for a major disruption here. What I think would be better is a more reliable, uniform, and simpler way to conform to the local convention.
 
@PauloCereda How does the `--silent` option work?
\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
No ducks were harmed in this file
\end{document}

$ arara test.ltx -s
__ _ _ __ __ _ _ __ __ _
/ _` | '__/ _` | '__/ _` |
| (_| | | | (_| | | | (_| |
\__,_|_| \__,_|_| \__,_|

Processing 'test.ltx' (size: 238 bytes, last modified: 01/21/2020
11:53:34), please wait.

(PDFLaTeX) PDFLaTeX engine .............................. SUCCESS

Total: 0.93 seconds
$ arara test.ltx --silent
__ _ _ __ __ _ _ __ __ _
/ _` | '__/ _` | '__/ _` |
 
@PabloGonzálezL Ah it was suggested by Nicola in case the verbose key is set in the configuration file.
 
@PhelypeOleinik No, but only because I'm against violence :)
 
We might need a --quiet option. :)
 
@PauloCereda >/dev/null
 
2:58 PM
@Skillmon ooh advanced rabbit techniques. :)
 
@barbarabeeton didn't know that publishers might rely on that.
@PauloCereda 2>&1
 
@Skillmon ooh that one I know. :) You redirect streams, right? :)
 
@PauloCereda output stderr to the same place stdout is put at.
 
@CarLaTeX :-)
 
@PauloCereda I think it would be a good idea :)
 
3:00 PM
@PabloGonzálezL added to the feature list. :)
@Skillmon ooh :)
 
@Skillmon Only nix :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL there are other OSes which are used for productive tasks? How?
 
@Skillmon I understand, but, arara is multiplatform ...and if from time to time I use windows :(
 
@PabloGonzálezL My condolences.
 
@AlanMunn :)
 
3:08 PM
@AlanMunn It's true :( , but in my job there's no other option... I can only use 'WSL' to get out of the way.
 
@PabloGonzálezL but you use Fedora <3
 
@PauloCereda And I struggle every year to install TeXLive without dnf getting angry with the rest of the packages :)
 
@barbarabeeton currently texlive (and miktex) allow the pdf page size to be set as a sitewise install option, so basically everyone in Europe sets it to A4 but latex always took a global us letter default, so the default for latex in most of teh world is a tex block set up for US letter, but placed in a pdf specifying A4 page dimensions. which really isn't a great default. LaTeX could make the typesetting block default to the same default as the page size (it has that information to hand) ...
@barbarabeeton ... which would mean the default here was A4 in A4 and for you US Letter on US Letter, but with the big downside that if you send me a latex source and I process it all line and page breaks will change (unless the \documentclass has [a4paper] or [letterpaper] etc to force the interpretation. I'm not sure that is a change we can do...
 
3:25 PM
I have implemented your reccommendations, and it still does not work for me. — Juan 35 mins ago
We could just blame @egreg
 
@PauloCereda -- Thanks. Agreed and noted.
 
@barbarabeeton <3
 
@Skillmon -- An attack rabbit!!
 
@PauloCereda I had reviewed it before (jejjej), the problem of fedora (like other distributions) are the dependencies, it costs a lot to leave according to dnf.
 
@PabloGonzálezL ooh :)
 
3:31 PM
@FaheemMitha -- The origin of this form for this use is Mathematica.
 
3:42 PM
@PabloGonzálezL * [new tag] release-7.00d -> release-7.00d
 
@barbarabeeton I see.
 
@DavidCarlisle Great, thank
 
@PabloGonzálezL I didn't change the theorem style patching this time, ran out of time and needed to push this out as link borders were completely broken with dvips and new gs.
 
@Skillmon -- Fairly often, a submitted paper shows up at AMS specifying A4 paper, and when it's sent to the laser printer to get a copy to edit, it always hangs the printer. That's merely an annoyance, but it does take time and ties up the printer until someone goes to reset it.
 
3:58 PM
@barbarabeeton that will happen anyway (already now) if any draft that specifies[a4paper] uses graphics or hyperref or geometry
 
@DavidCarlisle For the next :), apss, add to your list update Copyright at hluatex.dtx
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Unless I grossly misunderstand, the type block dimensions established in a document class won't be changed by changing the dimensions of the paper. (Provided, of course, that geometry isn't used, which really fouls up everything if a document is submitted to a publisher that provides dedicated document classes.)
@DavidCarlisle -- As I said, A4 vs. letterpaper is only an annoyance. It's the use of geometry (or something like savetrees) that causes real problems, because proper breaks in math are critical.
 
@PabloGonzálezL I have a "portable" TeXLive in a subdirectory, so I can test with the bleeding edge and with the released Ubuntu packages (which I think it's important, given that most users are practically stuck there). I struggled a bit to set it up at first but (with unvaluable help from this chat) it is working...
 
4:14 PM
@barbarabeeton no we are not discussing to change the typesetting, only if we should ensure that the pdf page size is always (and not only if graphics or hyperref or a modern class is used) equal to the latex lengths \paperwidth and \paperheight.
 
@barbarabeeton that's what I suggest above changing the type block would be one way to avoid the current situation that for most of the world they default to a type block designed for us letter but set on A4. (But I don't think that is workable, so the question is what to do...)
 
@UlrikeFischer -- Oh, I didn't think that the typesetting would change, but if the default letterpaper is changed to A4, that really would be a dislocation for users in some areas. At the AMS it's easy enough to figure out that the reason a printer is hung because of the requested paper size, but if the same thing happens unexpectedly on someone's home system, it's likely to be more confusing.
 
@barbarabeeton Well the paper would only change to A4 if the document requests A4 with \documentclass[a4paper]{article}. So probably they would want it. Beside this: currently the pdf page size doesn't change if you do \documentclass[a4paper]{article}, or it suddenly changes if the user adds a package like hyperref or graphics and this is imho much more confusing.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- I agree that always changing the type block would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. How many document classes start with paper size and calculate the type block from that, rather than specifying explicit dimensions?
 
@barbarabeeton the standard classes do that but use a definition of "paper size" to mean "US Letter or size specified by a4paper or similar option" The question is whether it should default to using the size specified by the pdftex primitive \pdfpagewidth or equivalent which is set by a site configuration to be US Letter for you and A4 for everyone else
@barbarabeeton the safest thing to do (which would be no change to you) would be to act as if graphics or hyperref were pre-loaded, but then everyone gets the annoyance that you describe above that by default they generate USletter pdfs which can hang a printer waiting for the us letter input tray to be filled
 
4:31 PM
@Rmano I have a "portable" TeXLive in a subdirectory, so I can test with the bleeding edge and with the released Ubuntu packages (which I think it's important, given that most users are practically stuck there). I struggled a bit to set it up at first but (with unvaluable help from this chat) it is working...
 
@DavidCarlisle -- I think you've got that backwards. A USletter pdf would hang a printer that has only an A4 paper tray.
 
@barbarabeeton yes exactly, and most of the world have A4 printers but latex by default generates US Letter documents, so if latex was "fixed" to make the pdf page size match the typeset area, most of the world would have documents that do not match the printer they have.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Maybe the solution (a bad one) is to require every job to specify the desired paper size.
 
@barbarabeeton well yes you could make \documentclass{article} an error and it has to be \documentclass[a4paper]{article} (or letterpaper) which avoids the problem but invalidates every latex tutorial ever written and a large proportion of the exiting corpus of latex documents. Basically there is no good answer here:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle -- The typeset area often has nothing to do with the paper size. The AMS document classes are mostly directed at a final trim size of 7x10 inches, and some to a final size even smaller (think "pocket books").
 
4:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle But this is already the case for say 95% of all documents using one of the standard classes. Our document hang in my printer too because we used hyperref and graphics. If this were such a large problem we should remove the code from graphics and hyperref ...
 
@barbarabeeton yes sure and in classic tex (including classic latex) there was no notion of papersize anyway the di just starts at 1 inch in and you typeset the text and the page size is whatever size your paper is, but real people these days use pdf and theer you need a size to tell the viewer what to do. and pdflatex (including pdflatex in dvi mode does know the size it is specifying)
@UlrikeFischer yes I think not changing the typeset area but making the pdf page size match (ie acting as if graphics loaded) is the only possible change, even though I'm tempted to want to go the other way and allow typeset area and page size to be set as a site default...
@UlrikeFischer actually could have an explicit option for that \documentclass[sitepaper]{article} meaning pick up \pdfpagewidth and do something sensible.... if you wanted the document to modify itself to local conditions
 
@DavidCarlisle that would be an option.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- While "sitepaper" sounds nice, consider the case in which a draft has lines numbered for the purpose of identifying editing comments. A pdf would keep everything valid, but reprocessing would foul things up seriously. So we're back to "no good answer".
 
@barbarabeeton you could drop letterpaper and use A4 too ;-)
 
4:55 PM
@UlrikeFischer -- That would be very expensive for the AMS, not to mention the relative difficulty of obtaining a reliable supply of "odd-sized" paper. Plus needing new office furniture, and not being compatible with the government, etc., etc. (But you did include a smiley.)
 
@barbarabeeton yes but if you explicitly opt in to that then don't reference line numbers, just as you would not reference a line number in a displayed html page
@barbarabeeton I think @UlrikeFischer meant the country not just the AMS
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Within the past few months, I was required to read and comment on a paper that was line-numbered. AMS doesn't use that method, but other publishers do. Publishers are loath to change their procedures; it's very costly, and a switchover can take years. (Sigh.)
 
@barbarabeeton yes sure but you simply wouldn't accept that manuscript if it was opting in to site-specific formatting
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Do you really want to try to change the practices of this government? (As much as I'd like to, for some things.) You can't even affect what happens with your own.
 
@barbarabeeton The UK changed to A4 from imperial sized paper within my lifetime, it's not impossible
 
5:02 PM
oopsie
 
@DavidCarlisle -- No. If the subject editors accept a manuscript, the office can't reject it. The only option the office has is to have it re-input.
 
@barbarabeeton I am aware that the USA is bigger than the UK :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Unless the U.S. educational system becomes more effective (and fact-based), I fear it's close to hopeless.
 
@PhelypeOleinik you have an email :-)
 
@barbarabeeton the [sitepaper] option would just be the same as this that you could do now, so in theory it wouldn't change anything, just make some options easier (which is not necessarily good)
\ifdim\pdfpagewidth=597.50787pt
\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\else
\documentclass[usletter]{article}
\fi

\begin{document}

zzz
\end{document}
 
5:10 PM
@barbarabeeton TUGboat submission on it's way to you :)
 
@JosephWright -- Thanks!
 
@JosephWright lualatex-dev ;-). Is the consolas font for you so large too?
 
@UlrikeFischer It's a bit big, yes, but I'm not sure @barbarabeeton will keep it anyway :) I picked it only because I need the glyph coverage for things like Greek accents and grosses Eszett in monotype
 
@JosephWright ooh
@UlrikeFischer ooh
 
5:36 PM
@DavidCarlisle I am sure they'll change back one of these days, just to spite the EU.
 
ooh let's use B4
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen The UK adopted the standard in 1959 according to Wikipedia, so you'd need some revisionist history to do so. But that's pretty much the Brexiteers' modus operandi so who knows.
The article is quite interesting. It also explains how the sizes of technical drawing pens are designed to match the scaling factors of the paper, something I had no idea about.
 
> Microsoft is Testing Ads in WordPad in Windows 10
 
@PauloCereda Soon to be extortion-ware?
 
@AlanMunn yep :)
 
5:51 PM
@AlanMunn I had noticed scaling factors of technical drawing pens before, but never connected that to paper sizes. Interesting.
 
@JosephWright I don't quite get the difference between \TEST and \TESTEXP from the description :(
 
6:03 PM
@JosephWright also in the documentation of the Epoch setting (2.7) there is a 1463734800 variable referenced, afaik that's not a legal variable name in any programming language, so I assume an error here.
 
@PabloGonzálezL Will take a look in a minute
 
Ok \TESTEXP can only test fully expandable code it seems. Maybe that was too clear?
 
@Skillmon Ah: \TEST is for non-expandable things, so you have to actively print them, \TESTEXP is like \message: the content needs to be expandable
@Skillmon ER, possible
 
1 min ago, by Skillmon
Ok \TESTEXP can only test fully expandable code it seems. Maybe that was too clear?
I could've guessed based on the names...
 
6:28 PM
@PauloCereda foolscap more likely
 
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
6:48 PM
@DavidCarlisle That's a term I haven't heard in a long time.
@DavidCarlisle And I think when I learned it (in Canada), it was used to refer to US Legal size in fact.
 
@PauloCereda you have an issue on git :)
 
7:08 PM
@AlanMunn -- A quick survey of definitions for foolscap on the web shows a great deal of inconsistency. The use of paper of this size appears always to be legal, but the location of its use is British or European, not the U.S. The measurements also vary, but are invariably not identical to the standard U.S. legal (8.5x14 inches). It is considered to have been superseded by A4. (Not intending to be contradictory here, but I was curious, being myself uncertain.)
 
@barbarabeeton Yes I suspected that was the case, since Canada uses US sizes for paper, and both UK foolscap and US Legal are oddly long sheets.
 
@AlanMunn -- One of the sets of dimensions given for foolscap (the closest) is 8.5x13.5 inches -- just a bit shorter than that for U.S. legal paper. Other examples differ wildly.
 
7:34 PM
@PabloGonzálezL Thanks. :)
 
7:46 PM
@PabloGonzálezL replied. :)
 
@PauloCereda Thank you very much :)
 
8:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle Very kind David in relation of this question: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/524949/… the name of the book is: Necessary and Sufficient Conditions for Absolute Continuity of Elliptic- Harmonic Measure. see this link: jstor.org/stable/2006966?origin=crossref&seq=1
 
@PauloCereda They are doing the “name this thing” thing again: mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/participate/name-the-rover
@PauloCereda I think “Rover McRoverface” should be an option
 
@Sebastiano yep I got there but I hadn't noticed it is one of the documents jstor makes available without an account
 
@PhelypeOleinik Hi, very kind.
 
@Sebastiano Hello :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle In fact. If you seen the preview it is an old book and I doubt that there a source with free pdf without account. It is since 1984 and peraphs it is written in TeX.
@DavidCarlisle If you seen at this link link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02392215 you have a free pdf. But it is a scan of the article/book.
 
8:22 PM
@Sebastiano '84 doesn't seem that old to me:-) but yes you are right, it's a scan of annals of math (someone (@barbarabeeton?) would know what fonts they were using) but the question is nonsense anyway a phi is a phi
@Sebastiano you could point him to any one of 1000 answers to your questions where I have said you should not select individual characters from individual fonts:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle :-):-) Yes, of course :-):-). For my humble opinion there is not a pdf....for the 2nd your comment: aahhah. Certainly.
@DavidCarlisle Look here: projecteuclid.org/download/pdf_1/euclid.acta/1485889737 there is the famous \phi.
It is only a scan.
 
@Sebastiano yep but even if we found out what fonts the journal was using at the time, knowing the name of a lump of lead moulded into that shape doesn't really help, so I'm ignoring the question now. it's just a \varphi
Oh you made my day. My guess was right (missing am fonts) and @egreg's was wrong:-) — David Carlisle 9 mins ago
 
@DavidCarlisle -- A lot looks like the paper was set with TeX, but some features of the fonts are questionable w.r.t. cm. Maybe am, but I don't have a good example of those to compare. Questionable clues: the numerals; the shape of \in; the fact that it's a scan shouldn't make any difference there. So I'm not sure. (But you're correct about the \varphi.)
 
@DavidCarlisle Dear David, mine was just a curiosity: the research concluded that we cannot identify the fonts used, considering that they are only scans. I did the research and did not understand the last part of your comment. :-):-)
@barbarabeeton Hi barbara
 
8:46 PM
@Sebastiano yes I left a comment under the original question correcting my earlier comment that the acrobat font menu would list the fonts.
@barbarabeeton annals of math in '84, were they using tex already?
@barbarabeeton the fact that it's a scan means you can't just load it into acrobat and ask what fonts are there
 
@Sebastiano A phi is a phi. Even if you like the particular shape in some font, there's no point in importing it when you use a different font.
 
9:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle Ok! On acrobat -> propriety I have seen only times, arial, and peraphs Courier.
@egreg Yes I agree with you. But the user he wanted that specific \phi or \varphi.
 
@Sebastiano yes but that's the jstor cover page fonts, there is no information about the actual document as there are no fonts just an image of each page.
@Sebastiano the user asked for that (as you have asked in the past) but users can be wrong:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Update on the article in question ... On rechecking, the entries at both the Springer and projecteuclid sites show the publication date as December 1972. So, way before TeX. But since the appearance is very close in many ways to what TeX output would look like, I suspect that it was composed with Monotype Modern No. 8, the model on which CM was based.
 
@DavidCarlisle ahahahaahahh of course. But I've stopped asking those kinds of questions
 
9:18 PM
@DavidCarlisle I have been comfortable with spaces but I will consider your point by replacing them with dashes.
 
@barbarabeeton I agree.
 
@DavidCarlisle I just needed to run it once. From the security point of view, I don't realize how dangerous running -shell-escape is but I face many questions where their solutions need it enabled.
 
@Sebastiano -- Hi to you too.
 
If we're now done identifying old fonts, how about some jazz from Catalonia?
 
9:41 PM
@JosephWright I wanted to test whether all errors are correctly caught and found a peculiar difference between LuaTeX and pdfTeX: They're shortening context of errors differently. The context in *.log has 11 characters more than in *.tlg for errors thrown with \errmessage.
 
@Skillmon Yes :(
@Skillmon We know that: a reasonable number of .luatex.tlg files are due to differences in logging
 
@JosephWright is it possible to run one specific test file with a different format?
@JosephWright funny enough that was only true for \errmessage the undefined control sequences errors have the same length.
 
@Skillmon It's not all exactly easy to follow ;)
@Skillmon Easiest method is to use a separate configuration (see l3build itself)
 
@JosephWright so I'd have to run l3build check twice :(
 
@Skillmon No
@Skillmon You tell the main build.lua about the configs, then it runs each of them
 
10:08 PM
@Skillmon look at eg hyperref checkconfigs = {"build","config-pvt","config-3","config-xetex"} where the config-xetex tests just use xetex
 
@DavidCarlisle thanks. Same is done in l3build's own build.lua as I know saw.
 
@Skillmon oh yes Joseph just said that, sorry:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle no problem, I tend to don't be mad because people wanted to help me.
 
@Skillmon you'll never get on on the internet with an attitude like that.
 
yo'
10:35 PM
@UlrikeFischer Thanks. So basically unicode-math increases the options for math fonts by a couple fonts. My question is mostly whether it's stable enough and reasonably bug-free. I remember some older versions were very problematic...
 
10:47 PM
@PhelypeOleinik YES! :)
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh
 
@yo' Pretty stable, yes
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen gringos singing Brazilian Portuguese, how amusing. :)
 
yo'
11:13 PM
@JosephWright that's great to hear!
Btw, I'll be in London April 19-25 (probably), any chance to catch one of you guys? @DavidCarlisle @JosephWright I'll then probably be goind north to Scotland (never been there, so I have to!)
 
11:37 PM
@yo' I just heard ams are using it (and xelatex) for most of their books
 

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