TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2012-06-21 (page 1 of 2)

egreg

08:42

@tohecz There's an even simpler way:

\newcommand\atoi{\mathpalette\atoistyle\relax}
\newcommand\atoistyle[2]{\mbox{\rotatebox[origin=c]{180}{$#1\iotaup$}}}

tohecz

@egreg And \mathpalette inserts the correct style in between its #1 and #2?

David Carlisle

@tohecz yes

egreg

That's its job: `\mathpalette\A\B` expands to

\mathchoice{\A\displaystyle\B}{\A\textstyle\B}{\A\scriptstyle\B}{\A\scriptscriptstyle\B}

and you can check in the case above. Two arguments are needed, because sometimes `\A` has a "variable part"

tohecz

Ok I get it, and you say \atoistyle[2] instead of [1] to gobble the ending \relax, right?

egreg

@tohecz Yes.

tohecz

08:58

Ok, thanks a lot! :)

egreg

@tohecz You may link to this

6

A: The mysteries of \mathpalette

\mathpalette comes very handy in many situations where similar token lists must be passed to \mathchoice, that is, we want an expansion of the form \mathchoice {<something in \displaystyle>} {<something in \textstyle>} {<something in \scriptstyle>} {<something in \sc...

tohecz

Recently I seem to be in the "One inernal command explained by @egreg a day" training...

2

egreg

@tohecz :)

tohecz

how many of them does LaTeX have? Around a thousand? In three years, we are there ;)

egreg

@tohecz :) Did you see the crash course on \ooalign?

tohecz

09:09

no, not yet

pity I have to go out for some 2 hours...

egreg

19

A: \subseteq + \circ as a single symbol ("open subset")

Here is a possibility: \newcommand\opn{\mathrel{\ooalign{$\subseteq$\cr \hidewidth\raise.225ex\hbox{$\circ\mkern.5mu$}\cr}}} \newcommand\cls{\mathrel{\ooalign{$\subseteq$\cr \hidewidth\raise.225ex\hbox{$\bullet\mkern.5mu$}\cr}}} The symbols will change size according to the context. They d...

tohecz

Shouldn't all your examples there contain \mathpalette to be scalable?

egreg

@tohecz In that case I doubt that \mathpalette is useful: the amount of raising up usually needs to be fine tuned for each style.

And the OP didn't need the symbol in subscripts. ;-)

tohecz

well ok, I seem to agree... but generally with \ooalign in maths, \mathpalette or \mathchoice is a necessity, right?

egreg

@tohecz Quite often.

Stephan Lehmke

09:17

@tohecz Whenever your implementation contains a $.

tohecz

ok thanks

it seems that we are over the limit today ;)

Andrew Stacey

@egreg Okay, installed Skim. Now how do I tell texdoc to use it?

egreg

@AndrewStacey export PDFVIEWER_texdoc='open -a Skim %s'

You may use Preview or even Adobe Reader, if you prefer. But I like Skim.

Andrew Stacey

@egreg Ah! I can use %s in the PDFVIEWER variable. That's nice. Then I could use xpdf directly and include the & if I really wanted to stay within X11. (I'm trying to be a good Mac OS X user, but when things don't work quite how I want, I have this strong urge to run to X11 for cover.)

Even if I stick with xpdf, Skim looks like something I was looking for as it has annotation capabilities.

So thanks for the pointer.

egreg

@AndrewStacey In general, open -a <application name> <filename> is like using right click on a file and choosing "Open with…"

Of course, if you hand something to an X11 program, the & is needed

Andrew Stacey

09:38

@egreg The oddity is that running texdoc 21 on a Linux machine doesn't need the ampersand ... a-ha, found texdoc.cnf and all is explained.

David Carlisle

10:53

@AlanMunn code.google.com/p/dpctex/source/detail?r=15

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle GoogleCode :)

N3buchadnezzar

Man this is strange, my figure loads only if I include \begin{tikzpicture} and exclude \end{tikzpicture}

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda not as trendy as github, but it does the job

Paulo Cereda

11:09

@DavidCarlisle I can relate to that. :) I was using SourceForge since 2005. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda also when I started using googlecode I had this naive idea that they wouldn't do evil, and previously they were checked in to an svn repository on my laptop disk, which has certain obvious fail points....

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Uh-oh. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda actually I lie, several of them were checked in locally but once I started that google code collection I discovered several packages on ctan that claim to have been written by me so I checked them in as well. has anyone ever used grfpaste?

Andrew Stacey

@DavidCarlisle "Hold on lads, I've got an idea." Whenever I publish a package to CTAN and I don't want to be bothered by bug reports, I'll make it claim to have been written by you. Solves all problems in a stroke.

6

David Carlisle

@AndrewStacey I'm not convinced that that isn't an accurate description of some of them....

Andrew Stacey

11:20

@DavidCarlisle Your middle name isn't "Bourbaki" by any chance?

David Carlisle

@AndrewStacey I couldn't possibly comment

Patrick Gundlach

12:00

yay! just finished an article for the DTK (German "Tug boat")

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach Yay! What's the subject? :)

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda Hyphenation checking with LuaTeX

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach Cool!

Patrick Gundlach

Mostly the packages showhyphens and my new one lua-check-hyphen

I think I'll make an english translation of it and publish it in the tugboat as well

Paulo Cereda

Yay! :)

How's the book going, BTW?

Patrick Gundlach

12:09

@PauloCereda sunday I'll have 8 hours for it (on the train, can't be disturbed by anyone)

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach :)

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda slowly

Paulo Cereda

Happy number

A happy number is defined by the following process. Starting with any positive integer, replace the number by the sum of the squares of its digits, and repeat the process until the number equals 1 (where it will stay), or it loops endlessly in a cycle which does not include 1. Those numbers for which this process ends in 1 are happy numbers, while those that do not end in 1 are unhappy numbers (or sad numbers). Overview More formally, given a number n=n_0, define a sequence n_1, n_2, ... where n_{i+1} is the sum of the squares of the digits of n_i. Then n is happy if and only i...

This is news to me. :)

Happy numbers, unhappy numbers, sad numbers, naughty numbers... :)

Andrew Stacey

12:23

@PauloCereda Oh ye of little ... numerology. Knoweth ye not that there be many types of numbers? Numbers can be deficient, happy, lucky, narcissistic, odious, perfect, twin, and just plain down-right weird. For example, we were discussing 22 last night. It is a competent, deficient, odious, lazy caterer.

Paulo Cereda

@AndrewStacey Wow! :)

egreg

@AndrewStacey What about 43?

Andrew Stacey

@egreg It is a deficient, evil, lucky, odd twin. (missing off a few boring ones)

Paulo Cereda

13:14

なんだこのパッケージは？！ RT @TeXgallery Fun with gnuplot and arara - Paulo Cereda introduces a new TeX automation tool: http://latex-community.org/know-how/435-gnuplot-arara

Tweeted by so2akt on June 20, 2012 at 12:23 PM

Google Translate tells me "What is this package?!". :P

egreg

@PauloCereda Japanese and Chinese have a clear advantage with Tweeter: they can put novels in 140 characters. :)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Indeed! :)

egreg

@PauloCereda 1444 to go. :)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Yay! :D

egreg

13:30

@PauloCereda Next week, it seems. :)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg We will have a big party. :)

I'm thinking of providing an OSTYPE parameter for arara rules, which will tell the underlying operating system. So I could write this rule:

!config
identifier: clean
name: CleaningTool
command: '@{OSTYPE == "windows" ? "cmd /c del" : "rm -f"} @{file}'
arguments: []

egreg

@PauloCereda That's wrong:

command: '@{OSTYPE == "windows" ? "cmd /c del C: " : "rm -f"} @{file}'

Paulo Cereda

@egreg LOL that's a good idea too. :)

@egreg: we need to make it better (newer Windows versions don't have the useful deltree command):

command: '@{OSTYPE == "windows" ? "cmd /c rd C:\*.* /q /s " : "rm -f"} @{file}'

I like this idea! :D

egreg

@PauloCereda The difficulty is to launch the installation of a GNU/Linux system, but maybe we can make something up. :)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg haha

@egreg Found wubi: ubuntu.com/download/help/install-ubuntu-with-windows

Now I need to find a way to run it in silent mode. :)

N3buchadnezzar

13:59

Hi =)

Paulo Cereda

Hello.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda del /s

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar Did you buy cinnamon buns for Andrew?

N3buchadnezzar

Summer vacation at the moment, so I am eating them myself. They are very delicious!

Homemade

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar Yummiest!

Paulo Cereda

14:01

@JosephWright Ah! :)

Speaking of cinnamon buns, I'm hungry. :)

N3buchadnezzar

A very quick question is there anything wrong with declearing
\tikzset{xaxe style/.style ={>=stealth,->}}
in the preamble of a document? Yes, I want these changes globaly.

Paulo Cereda

@N3buchadnezzar I think I do that too. :) (I don't use TikZ too much)

@egreg: today is a holiday here (city's anniversary), so mom prepared a nice dish for lunch: galinhada. :) It's a typical dish from Minas Gerais, specially in the countryside areas. Yummy. :)

Found a nice pic:

N3buchadnezzar

@PauloCereda Seems jummy!

Paulo Cereda

@N3buchadnezzar It is! :) And it's very easy to do too. :)

N3buchadnezzar

@PauloCereda Rice, some yellow sauce, chicken and vegetables?

Paulo Cereda

14:11

@N3buchadnezzar Yes, cooked all together. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Buon appetito!

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Grazie! :) It's not ready yet, but the aroma is reaching here. :)

tohecz

@PauloCereda I guess that you'd find a very similar dish as a "local special's" all around the world... ;) but still, it looks delicious :)

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz Indeed. :)

tohecz

I think that the real "special's" are the ones you see and say "Oh my god what's that?"

Like Fried cheese (a la Wiener-Schnutzel) in Czech Rep.

Paulo Cereda

14:21

@tohecz hmmm sounds yummy!

egreg

@tohecz I like guláš, gulyás, gulasch (they are three different things). :)

Paulo Cereda

@tohecz Brazil is a continental country, so every region has its own "special" which totally contrasts with the others. :) And we also have some common specials, like "feijoada", but made with different ingredients (I know in Bahia they use cassava leaves instead of beans). :)

David Carlisle

half past three and still at 0. My plan to get to 100k before egreg seems to be failing.

3

Paulo Cereda

BTW, feijoada is a common "OMG" dish. :)

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

@egreg Really?! I thought it was only one dish. :)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Too busy with xcolor bugs? :P

David Carlisle

14:28

too busy with windows

(well .net actually)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Cool! Any language in particular?

David Carlisle

fortran of course:-)

egreg

@PauloCereda The concept is the same, but the realization is different. We mostly do it according to an original Hungarian recipe given by a mathematician's wife, but sometimes with a German recipe.

Czechs use beer, which is not used in Hungary.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg It looks very yummy! :)

egreg

@PauloCereda It is! Add paprika. :)

N3buchadnezzar

14:37

@egreg Ahoy thar egreg, what was that secret package to make everything bold?

I tried \usepackage{bf} but alas ^^

Heh, bm not bf silly me.

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar Ask David for the difference. :)

David Carlisle

14:56

@egreg I wonder if I should flag that comment as unfair and hurtful

cmhughes

@egreg thanks so much for your help on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/60434/draft-mode-for-pgfplots ... the document now compiles in 9 seconds in draft mode compared to 49 seconds in 'non-draft' mode- brilliant!

N3buchadnezzar

15:12

@DavidCarlisle Sorry for not getting the joke =(

Hey @percusse! NEw avatar?

percusse

@N3buchadnezzar I lost track of it. The system gives me random haircuts.

N3buchadnezzar

@percusse I`ve been working more with tikz lately =)

percusse

maybe due to the home/work computer differences

well, you are becoming a power user.

N3buchadnezzar

@percusse Well getting to 10k purely by asking questions would be considered an achievement would it not ? ^^

percusse

@N3buchadnezzar Nothing wrong with that :)

N3buchadnezzar

15:18

Is there any reason to preffer using
\begin{axis}
\addplot[blue, ultra thick, domain=-2.25:3.5,samples=200] {(1/2)*(\x)^3-(\x)^2-2*(\x)+4};
\end{axis}
over
\draw[blue, ultra thick, domain=-2.25:3.5,samples=200] plot (\x, {(1/2)*(\x)^3-(\x)^2-2*(\x)+4});
?

percusse

@N3buchadnezzar Well, I would go with pgfplots if I really do something with the plot+data, if only for illustration I'd go with plain TikZ

N3buchadnezzar

Hmmm

Stephan Lehmke

@AndrewStacey I love the normal ones, because they are so... normal ;-)

N3buchadnezzar

There are no plain normal numbers ;)

Stephan Lehmke

15:33

What? I learned the non-normal ones are a Lebesgue zero set, so they are in the majority even ;-)

Paulo Cereda

0

Q: How to Properly Align an Equation

I want to put down an equation of the form A=B. Both expressions A and B are long. What I'd like is for A to be aligned at the left, drop down a line and have =B a little right of left aligned. Bonus points if you can have it so an expression A is left aligned, drop down a line and have =B a l...

equations

My dad looked at my screen and saw this title. He asked about what it meant, then I translated the title. Then, my dad (which is a Word user) said, "align an equation? It's easy! space space space space space space space :P

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar Just a private joke, don't worry.

Paulo Cereda

15:48

@DavidCarlisle new plan: start downvoting egreg. :P

4

Stephan Lehmke

@PauloCereda Is there a rep cap to that? ;-)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda yes I suppose that would work. But I only have 40 votes a day I think, I wonder if that is enough to bring him below rep cap on a typical day.

Paulo Cereda

@StephanLehmke It might work with a regular user, but not with egreg. :) He has so many extra votes that he'd still reach rep cap even with downvotes. :)

@DavidCarlisle #include <sockpuppet> :)

Great, now my suggestion is starred, out of context. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda join the club

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Karma strikes back. :)

egreg

15:55

@DavidCarlisle You need to downvote just before 00:00 UTC so no later upvote can be computed. But if you downvote too much, the system would nullify the votes. :)

David Carlisle

@egreg sounds like too much bother. Anyway it's not needed now, I'm off zero and catching you fast without resorting to foul play.

... for some definition of "catching up"

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Oh, well, it's easy: just manage to get 10000 rep a day for the next seven days. :)

2

David Carlisle

bounty anyone?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle How much? :)

egreg

16:11

@PauloCereda I doubt that you can find somebody offering, say, five 15000 bounties. :)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg :)

tohecz

@PauloCereda French people would not agree, in their opinion, we are destroying the cheese by frying it ;D

egreg

@tohecz We do fried cheese too! Everything can be fried.

tohecz

@egreg I have heard about it but I doubt you cover it in flour, egg and bread-crumb...

egreg

In Sicily they prepare a ball-shaped mixture of rice and meat sauce, then they fry it. They call those things "arancine" (small oranges).

@tohecz Yes, of course!

But a Wienerschnitzel is better. ;-)

tohecz

16:19

Oh really? I have shown the meal to our Italian colleagues and they were quite scared by it ;)

egreg

/Note to self: go and meet lockstep, asking him for the best Wienerschnizel in Wien

tohecz

My mom's rule is: "Wienershnitzel is Wienerschnitzel"

egreg

@tohecz It depends on where they come from.

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg Nooooo

tohecz

@egreg Not sure exactly, I think from Bologna

Paulo Cereda

16:22

@tohecz :)

Stephan Lehmke

@tohecz Even the french do that!

legourmand.over-blog.com/article-camembert-pane-107064914.html

egreg

@tohecz I guess they don't fry cheese there: it's not a cheese zone. But they have other good things!

tohecz

@StephanLehmke It looks a lot different

egreg

@tohecz You don't have Camembert!

tohecz

@egreg We have some similar cheeses

this is the Czech way: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/…

Stephan Lehmke

16:29

@tohecz Looks like a fairly lo-carb dish... ;-)

tohecz

btw, McDonald's started offering "smažák v housce" (burger with fried cheese) in Czech Rep. They have not found any good international name for it, so they simply call it McSmažák (with the diacritics) ;)

@StephanLehmke That's why we love it :D

egreg

@tohecz Tatarka! :)

tohecz

@egreg yeah, you like it?

egreg

@tohecz Of course!

tohecz

which reminds me, I just ran out of tatarka two days ago ... buy a glass of tatarka

but you can make it at home if you wish

David Carlisle

16:32

@egreg I have an Italian friend who gets very upset by that name and says we're supposed to call it a something from Milan, I think:-)

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle no no no, you are wrong, it should be called by the Czech word, "řízek"

David Carlisle

@egreg In England they take fish and potatoes fry them, cover in vinegar and eat them out of old newspaper. You have a lot of catching up to do in refined culinary tastes

Stephan Lehmke

@DavidCarlisle Isn't that one done with pork?

tohecz

@StephanLehmke And what do you do schnitzel of?

Stephan Lehmke

Wienerschnitzel should be made from veal.

tohecz

16:37

ok, I have never had that. In Czech Rep. it's mostly of chicken and pork...

egreg

@DavidCarlisle They are actually two different things: the "cotoletta alla milanese" should have the bone.

Stephan Lehmke

Well in germany they mostly also take pork (which is cheaper) and then call it "Schnitzel Wiener Art" ;-)

tohecz

German and those "names" ... in Czech, you need just 5 letters for it, and then you add the "meat adjective" *SARCASM*

I think I'm about to test the free fall with my laptop

12th floor

Stephan Lehmke

... which means, btw, "something which is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a Wiener Schnitzel".

Paulo Cereda

18:27

Cheese?! :)

►

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda I didn't know that one :))

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach My favorite part is when John says, "Have you - WILL YOU SHUT UP THAT BLOODY DANCING?" :)

Paulo Cereda

18:49

At last, Thunderbird integrated login/password in a single screen for newsreaders. :)

Out of curiosity, what you guys use for newsreaders? :)

N3buchadnezzar

19:04

@PauloCereda Bookmarks with newsfeeds =)

Paulo Cereda

@N3buchadnezzar :)

N3buchadnezzar

Could not be much simpler

Paulo Cereda

@MarcoDaniel: how do you like the idea of including a built-in arara variable in the rules for OS-specific commands? :) See: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5051347#5051347

Patrick Gundlach

19:23

@PauloCereda newsreader? Like uucp news? or rss? Rss: gruml

... or nntp (not uucp anymore, I guess)

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach Sorry, I meant software. :)

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda software for what?

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach for reading news. :)

Better, newsgroup. :)

Sorry, I'm slower today. :)

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda ah newsgroups

@PauloCereda telnet :)

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach WOW! :)

Patrick Gundlach

19:35

@PauloCereda (Just joking, of course)

I used to use emacs for that, but I have given up on Usenet News loooong time ago

Paulo Cereda

@PatrickGundlach emacs can read newsgroups?

Oh my.

Patrick Gundlach

@PauloCereda really well - emacs is fully programmable and as a rather nice UI API. GNUS is a very popular reader (popular... among emacs users)

gnus.org

Paulo Cereda

Cool!

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda emacs can do everything, (I used gnus for newsreading until I stopped newsreading not so long ago, and I used it for mail until very recently)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle How nice! I should try emacs again.

David Carlisle

19:52

@PauloCereda You should never have killed emacs the first time.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle It's not dead, only buried. :)

I have aquamacs on my Mac. :)

David Carlisle

20:08

@PauloCereda pining for the fiords no doubt.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle LOL

Patrick Gundlach

20:25

@DavidCarlisle my emacs is in the background (ctrl-z) for years now - it even survives reboots

tohecz

"emacs is a nice operating system, pity it lacks a good text editor..."

*sarcasm*

leo

20:46

hi

why this: \addplot {(sin(deg(x)))/(x)}; does not work in pgfplots?

N3buchadnezzar

21:07

I think you need to use \r

I tend to use
\addplot {19-4*cos((pi*x/180)r)}

Hello, hello, hello

Is there anybody in here?

osjerick

Hi all!. Somebody can say me if can I create a Bibliography with thebibliography environment without numbering for each bibitem?

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar We are mourning together with @tohecz.

Alan Munn

@osjerick Yes. But are you creating the bibliography manually or using bibtex?

N3buchadnezzar

I am thinking about asking a question, but I am unsure how to structure my question.

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar So ask a metaquestion first.

osjerick

21:13

@AlanMunn Manually

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg I will ponder about it. It is about how to distinguish answers from questions. I was thinking about either tinting the background, or changing the text. But I do not want it to be distracting to the reader. Now they blend in too well.

egreg

@osjerick Simple way (maybe too simplistic): \makeatletter\def\@biblabel#1{}\makeatother and \begin{thebibliography}{}

But your readers will have a hard time consulting the bibliography. :)

Paulo Cereda

@N3buchadnezzar Just nod if you can hear me. Is there anyone at home? :)

Alan Munn

@egreg Right. @osjerick It sounds like you want an author/year type of citation scheme, in which case you really should use bibtex and natbib (or biber and biblatex). Also this will save you lots of time in the long run, since you enter your bibliography information once and then you can reuse it in future documents with any bibliography format you need.

The amount of work it takes to enter your bib items into a reference manager such as JabRef (Cross platform) or BibDesk (Mac) is no more than it will take you to enter the bibitems manually.

osjerick

@egreg Thanks... Yes, this way it's very ugly.

@AlanMunn Thanks!

Paulo Cereda

21:36

If I opt for @{OSNAME}, I'd map all possible OS'es, like Linux, Windows, Irix, Unix, Mac, Solaris, etc. Another suggestion is to either map Unix and Windows, or include a new @{OSFAMILY}. :)

David Carlisle

so how does one "briefly explain" how to poke some random tokens into breqn internals?

I don't quite understand the part starting with {\catcode`+\active.... are those pure TeX code instead of LaTeX code? Can you briefly explain what they do? — Rich 9 mins ago

osjerick

@AlanMunn you are right because the @egreg's code works well but other problem appears, using \cite the reference appears with square bracket and I need use parenthesis.

Alan Munn

@osjerick Yes, exactly. Of all the things to learn about LaTeX, basic use of bibtex is really simple. Most of the commonly used bibliography styles have been already created, so unless you have very specific and weird requirements, you should be up and running in no time.

egreg

21:56

@DavidCarlisle The real answer is that breqn never breaks at commas. And that multline would be surely better. :) Would you really make the comma into a binary operator in all situations?

David Carlisle

@egreg no, But breqn code wasn't that easy to read when Michael produced it and I find it harder to read the L3-ized version (oops I said it) I Tried to define something like \comma that would be a punctuation comma followed by some breakable space but failed so did what I could do in the time:-)

@egreg actually I should put a warning about that making , a binop in that answer.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Adding \penalty0 after one of the commas makes the break.

David Carlisle

@egreg I tried that first I swear:-) perhaps you're right. I think the TeX force isn't with me today:(

tohecz

22:20

@egreg Even though I'm not sure what do we mourn for this time, I'm sure we do mourn :D

egreg

@DavidCarlisle I've added the trick. :)

David Carlisle

@egreg yes well I put that in my answer as well, feel free to post an answer and pick up the 15, or if not consider it my contribution to @PauloCereda's plan

egreg

@tohecz I'm sure you'd easily beat Portugal in ice hockey. :)

David Carlisle

@egreg ah quite nice version actually +1 from me (not that you need it:-)

tohecz

@egreg me? not, I'm not able to skate on ice...

egreg

22:24

@tohecz You seem to be a very untypical Czech. :)

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg Did you watch Czech lose today ? =)

tohecz

@N3buchadnezzar lose what?

N3buchadnezzar

@tohecz football ofcourse ;)

tohecz

(sorry, I have no TV and I don't follow news on the web)

ok, whatever

one favourite Czech idiom says "it won't make the bread cheaper"

egreg

@tohecz At Euro2012 (football) there was Czech Republic vs. Portugal. The final score was 0:1.

tohecz

22:28

ok, whatever blows their minds...

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar I saw the goal and also when Ronaldo hit the goal post. Great player indeed.

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg Italy is not doing so good huh ?

egreg

@N3buchadnezzar Why? We'll play England next Sunday.

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg and lose! ^^

tohecz

@egreg Well, I think I'm at all an untypical person ;)

egreg

22:31

@N3buchadnezzar We'll see. Of course I'll buy David a beer in the dreadful event.

David Carlisle

@tohecz you don't need to follow all news but you need to follow football, cricket, english grammar and national culinary dishes, in order to have the faintest hope of following conversation here which only rarely touches TeX

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle ummmm cannot agree I think...

btw, do you watch snooker?

David Carlisle

@tohecz not regularly, sometimes watch the world championships when they are on at easter each year in sheffield (not that far from where I grew up)

tohecz

oh ok

David Carlisle

why, Do you play?

tohecz

22:35

I do not

I just like to watch when I'm at my parents'

David Carlisle

@tohecz it's a lot harder than it looks on TV:-)

tohecz

I know, I play billiard occasionally

Alan Munn

@tohecz So you can skate on water?

N3buchadnezzar

@egreg Although Portugal, Italy, Spain and Germany would make an interesting quarter final.

David Carlisle

@N3buchadnezzar I think You mis-spelled England in the above

Alan Munn

22:39

@DavidCarlisle And bugs in your packages.

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle but I like the game, it is nice that people are able to follow such "slow" and "calm" game in these fast times

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn I believe that it has been previously established that there are no bugs, only features

N3buchadnezzar

@DavidCarlisle Where? Oh, the Italy part ^^

David Carlisle

@N3buchadnezzar where you used the letters I t a l y

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Oh right. Sorry about that. The bugs are in other people's packages.

David Carlisle

22:43

@tohecz yes snooker was re-invented (as a spectator sport for non-players) by the BBC when they needed to showcase colour TV and outside broadcasts were tricky if they had hardly any colour cameras, so a game constrained to a table with lots of coloured balls was just the thing

4

N3buchadnezzar

Over to something unrelated, I have almost written 2000 lines of Latex code during my summer holiday so far.

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle you really use "showcase" as a verb?

egreg

@tohecz Now the grammar part begins. :)

Alan Munn

@tohecz Now you're getting the hang of it: a grammar question. :) Yes. In English almost any noun can be verbed.

David Carlisle

@tohecz existence proof would say yes. It's probably a nasty american habit to use nouns as verbs

Alan Munn

22:45

@DavidCarlisle And here comes the grammar jingoism. :)

tohecz

(3 answers in a roll calling me, I think I scored a hattrick!)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn there are certain standards up which must be kept:-)

N3buchadnezzar

porn!

tohecz

@N3buchadnezzar what? standard porn?

Alan Munn

@N3buchadnezzar Was that a verb?

@DavidCarlisle Would you like a cigar with that?

David Carlisle

22:47

@AlanMunn no thanks, nasty habit (like verbing nouns)

N3buchadnezzar

@tohecz Oh, I just wanted to see if I could top your hattrick by sputtering out an attention seeking word ;)

tohecz

@DavidCarlisle that is indeed nasty, and we even use it in the Czech speech, to "google" something, to "photoshop" something (btw, the best program used to "photoshop" something is of course GIMP)

Alan Munn

@tohecz I know I'm going to get myself into hot water here, but what makes it nasty?

N3buchadnezzar

I guess one of my most hated words is sexting.

Alan Munn

@N3buchadnezzar It's a great word. Extremely elegant: gets the point across completely.

tohecz

22:51

@AlanMunn I don't like people using "cool" words just because they are "cool" (that's the situation here in Czech, people tend to use words from English just because they are from English)

(and they screw up the word completely so that no English native speaker can understand it at all)

N3buchadnezzar

@tohecz "I will perambulate down this jolly street, to fancy myself a nice pint, in this jolly good weather." Something like this?

David Carlisle

@N3buchadnezzar code as in programming tex stuff of 2000 lines of a book?

Alan Munn

@tohecz Oh, that's a different issue, I agree. Of course English is a Germanic language with a huge amount of French vocabulary, not to mention all the other borrowed words.

N3buchadnezzar

More like 2000 lines of code.

tohecz

@N3buchadnezzar excuse me?

David Carlisle

22:53

@N3buchadnezzar what does it do?

Alan Munn

@tohecz A German friend of mine recently had that experience. He'd been living in the States for more than 10 years and recently went back. He found himself thinking that some English words with German pronunciation were very obscure German words, much to his embarrassment.

tohecz

@AlanMunn I was at a bi-lingual conference in France, only one person spoke French there (the others English), and I distinguished between French English and pure French just by the end of the talk ;)

N3buchadnezzar

@DavidCarlisle Texifying old exams

Alan Munn

@tohecz LOL.

David Carlisle

@N3buchadnezzar ah so maybe we have seen snippets of that on site:-)

tohecz

22:56

@AlanMunn And I must admit that I have had the same problem repeatedly, French people speaking English and me not recognizing it's English

on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that many people cannot understand my spoken English ;)

N3buchadnezzar

@DavidCarlisle plenty ;)

David Carlisle

@N3buchadnezzar I shall have to appeal to @AlanMunn to validate getting from TeX the name of a software system to TeX the verb to Texifying the verb thingy...

Alan Munn

@tohecz If you're not a native speaker of a language, recognising that language spoken with an accent can be very tough. Even if you are a native speaker, it can be difficult, but as a second language speaker I think it's much harder.

N3buchadnezzar

I always find scandinavia a fun place to be.

tohecz

@AlanMunn still, you cannot miss some accents, besides French it's Russian :D

egreg

22:59

@AlanMunn In some cases it's difficult to recognize that somebody is talking English. :)

tohecz

@egreg that's my point ;)

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