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3:50 AM
@barbarabeeton Thanks barbara. I'm subscribed, although I don't read it regularly. But the question is very vague. There might be a solution using XeTeXinterchartoks but it would be nice to have an example.
 
4:18 AM
Hello everyone
The term LaTeX is used for two different things: as much for a program as for the specification of a language (of macros written in TeX). Is the second option correct? Why?
A site uses [tex]...[/tex] syntax to write the math. Is it certainly correspond to the LaTeX language (in fact, to be more precise, to a subset of it, which are the mathematical macros, since LaTeX also supports macros like \section, `\documentclassp, etc.)?
Although when I right click on a formula the window that appears is the same as in math.SE
With this information, can we say that site use LaTeX instead of MathJax? Why?
 
4:58 AM
@manooooh No. Web site implementations are never really LaTeX but use syntax that is based on real LaTeX.
 
5:18 AM
@AlanMunn thanks. "but use syntax that is based on real LaTeX" = "MathJax"?
In that site I can use \(\) and \[\] as LaTeX's syntax (with the possiblity of [tex][/tex], it is the same as \(\)), but I cannot use $ nor $$ like math.SE. Is it weird or it is just a MathJax configuration?
 
@manooooh That I don't know, sorry.
 
@AlanMunn ok np
 
 
2 hours later…
7:37 AM
@manooooh Most of the time it's MathJaX: one can find plugins that do run LaTeX itself, but they are rare (and normally serve up image files)
 
7:56 AM
@manooooh the default mathjax configuration doesn't use $
@manooooh there are several javascript implementations of tex syntax, mathjax and katex being the two best known these days. other web sites accept tex syntax but run tex on the background and serve up images (there is a google server that does this) and then websites like overleaf do something different again 9again runing a real tex system on the server) so it all depends.
 
8:58 AM
Excuse me everybody. Is there any user that can help this user? Thank you very much.
1
Q: Tabular (height spacing) for \lstinputlisting and picture

K. PaulI have a lstlisting environment in one column and an included picture in the other. according to the MWE, the following is printed: MWE: \documentclass[10pt]{article} \usepackage[margin=0.75in, top=1in]{geometry} \usepackage[onehalfspacing]{setspace} \usepackage{kotex, titlesec, titletoc, fan...

 
@Sebastiano sorry there is no sensible MWE. If the user correct the code I will perhaps look if I have some time.
 
@UlrikeFischer:
*** ./build/test/iflang-test1.luatex.tlg	2018-12-05 09:03:07.495820200 +0000
--- ./build/test/iflang-test1.luatex.log	2018-12-05 09:03:11.444809900 +0000
***************
*** 4,20 ****
  LaTeX Warning: You have requested package `',
                 but the package provides `iflang'.
  Package: iflang ....-..-.. v... Checks for the current language (HO)
! (infwarerr.sty
  Package: infwarerr ....-..-.. v... Providing info/warning/error messages (HO)
! ) (pdftexcmds.sty
  Package: pdftexcmds ....-..-.. v... Utility functions of pdfTeX for LuaTeX (HO)
@UlrikeFischer The test just fails as the packages in the "other" parts of the split now get taken from the default installation tree (so affecting white space in the log), as a matter of policy do you think I should adapt the tlg file or try to arrange the test support set up so that those files become local for the test..
 
9:14 AM
@DavidCarlisle Good question. I'm tending to a clean split and to view other packages as "foreign" packages. One could later install the lot in a local tree and test also against this local tree.
 
@UlrikeFischer yes that was my thought as well but I wanted to pass it by you first. I'm just doing things in bits as time allows but the top level is now empty, everything is in ho-* sub directories so now trying l3build in each to see if the tests still pass:-)
@UlrikeFischer the mkctan build script builds (I think) the right thing in each cases for each of the ho- subpackages except I have avoided ho-sub so far. I should probably do that first before getting l3build check working
 
@DavidCarlisle Fine ;-).
 
10:12 AM
@DavidCarlisle I assume that it is not LaTeX, because if y es then we can use packages that do not have to be manually installed, such TikZ. And we know that any site cannot support that package, so at least LaTeX is not used
 
10:32 AM
@JosephWright cctab ;-). But the \number and \int_use:N looks both really a bit odd.
 
10:51 AM
@UlrikeFischer Yeah, I know
 
11:34 AM
@UlrikeFischer I think we should have a 'Lua name': the alternative is using \def so we have something expandable ... thoughts? (@DavidCarlisle)
 
@JosephWright a lua name would be good - so that the code also works in luacode environment and external files. It is cumbersome to have to switch between lua and other syntax when moving code around.
 
@UlrikeFischer Exactly: it's an area we probably need to thing about more, and also avoids needing to have some integer values with different expansion behaviour to others
 
@manooooh not really. tikz isn't installed if you install a minimal texlive for example. But on a web page you can tell if they are using tex as if it appears as tex rather than an image they are not.
 
@JosephWright but we should avoid to fill the global environment, so probably something in luatexbase?
 
@JosephWright probably both, if we had a helper macro that used def and a matching lua definition then that could beused in the allocation macro instead of \chardef
 
11:45 AM
@DavidCarlisle thanks for the forward. It triggered me to remove more stuff from my local copy ;-).
 
@UlrikeFischer Thanky you very much. Best regards.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:16 PM
@DavidCarlisle that is another of the reasons why in that site (and in math.SE) there is no LaTeX but MathJax :). What do you mean by "But on a web page you can tell if they are using tex as if it appears as tex rather than an image they are not"?
 
3:55 PM
@StefanKottwitz golatex is horribly slow currently.
 
4:09 PM
@manooooh look at any questions posted to this site any tex typeset mathematics is an image not text. Oh sorry I meant to say" If it appears as text rather than an image"
 
4:20 PM
@DavidCarlisle I do not know where you want to go. What does it have to do in TeX.SE to use images instead of the MathJax output?
In other different context, do you guys recommend me to post "Can LaTeX be replaced by something better?" in TeX.meta? I only find two references: Let's find something better than LaTeX, Is LaTeX dead? If yes, what are some modern alternatives?, but none of those there dare to mention any current program that is better or that can be developed
 
@manooooh I don't understand your question sorry. What I ment is that without knowing anything about how the servers are set up you can tell that the math site uses mathjax (or similar) as the math is text you can select it with the mouse etc, but the math on this site is images. that applies to any site, if you look at the math, see how it is being displayed
 
@DavidCarlisle but we can actually do stuff with the math of MathJax, from the output that MathJax made we can copy the output
 
@manooooh you could post but it would (and should) most likely be closed as too broad or opinion based. Also it would be off topic on meta, as that is for questions about the main site not for questions about tex
@manooooh yes because, as i say it is text not an image
 
@DavidCarlisle opinions based on arguments should not be censored. In any case, the people (the admins and the rest) could be aware of people that are doing some tests with new tools, or that they themselves develop new programs, that we do not know, and want to share some idea (not all because it will be stolen haha)...
 
@manooooh it's not censorship it is just the basic mechanism of the entire network where you are told to ask focussed question that get specific answers and general discussion questions are closed. I don't make the rules, just look at the standard "close" reasons on any post.
 
4:29 PM
@DavidCarlisle ok. Can you share the main site please?
 
@manooooh in any case the question in that generality is meaningless and could have no sensible answer (which is why the site mechanisms discourage such questions)
@manooooh I do not understand
 
@manooooh The entire network model is that it works really badly for discussion or opinion (how do choose to vote on which answer is 'best'?)
@manooooh The issue with any 'why not replace X with Y' question is it tends toward a rant
 
@DavidCarlisle if nobody wants to show any actual work of new developments of a program capable to destroy (La)TeX then that question should be open, not closed!
@DavidCarlisle "Also it would be off topic on meta, as that is for questions about the main site not for questions about tex"
 
@manooooh you may as well ask if there could be something better than english, or Spanish or whatever. Clearly there could be but whether that is a useful observation is doubtful.
 
@JosephWright easy: questions not based on their votes but views :). In the site I was referring about [tex][/tex] tags they do not have a system of votes, only views. And is a good site
 
4:33 PM
@manooooh on meta it would be off topic, on the main site it would be opinion based, either way it would b eclosed
 
@manooooh Sure, but StackOverflow is explicitly a network for question-and-answer posts
 
@DavidCarlisle do you mean that I have to change "Can you share the main site please?" to "Could you share the main site please?"
 
@manooooh I suspect there is a translation problem as I do not understand either of those phrases.
 
@JosephWright the site I was referring is for math-questions-and-answers, too
 
@manooooh there are other sites with other rules but that is not relevant, you are using the site made freely available by the stackexchange company and they make the rules here.
 
4:36 PM
@DavidCarlisle what main site do you mean? What is the link? Is TeX.SE the main site? Which one?
 
@manooooh oh. if you want to ask about tex use tex.stackexchange.com if you want to ask about tex.stackexchange.com use tex.meta.stackexchange.com by "main site" I meant tex.stackexchange.com
 
@DavidCarlisle of course, they have different systems. What I mean is that is possible to have a great site without vote system, we would save the eternal discussions of when a question is good and when it is not (positive or negative votes, respectively)
Anyway, this is already another completely different debate, this arises thanks to @JosephWright
@DavidCarlisle thanks!
 
@manooooh One could argue the voting is silly (see the comment of mine in the starred list) but for whatever reason the stackexchange model proves popular and has largely replaced previous systems such as comp.text.tex newsgroup or texhax mailing list. Anyone is free to set up a vote free forum and encourage people to use it.
 
@DavidCarlisle do you like/use Facebook?
 
@manooooh I have an account but don't use it. I have a niece who seems to use it to remind me it's my birthday once a year but that is all
 
4:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle haha okay. Why do not you use it?
 
@manooooh nothing interesting there that I have noticed
 
@DavidCarlisle Facebook and SE are very similar when we talk about quality of posts based on "Like" = "Positive vote", "I do not like it" = "Negative vote" (Facebook also has its own posting policies, porn content censorship, etc.). What we conclude is that if you do not like Facebook then neither does SE
It's funny because neither you nor I know why it's like that; that is, why vote people like a lot
 
@manooooh a big difference is that all content here is public which isn't the case on facebook
 
@manooooh This makes no sense. The content on FB is completely different and serves a totally different purpose.
 
@DavidCarlisle that's right
 
4:46 PM
@manooooh so they are not at all comparable really.
 
@DavidCarlisle I do not think that the private pages/groups of FB have crutial information
@AlanMunn are you sure? There are people chatting, here we have people chatting. Theres use a vote system, here we use a vote system. If you don't follow the rules, you are banned. Here if you don't follow the rules, you are banned
 
@manooooh you don't know what they have, but also because you have an account you can already see more than people who do not
 
@DavidCarlisle we should investigate what flow of information circulates through public and private pages to ensure such affirmation
 
@manooooh Most information on FB is semi-private. E.g. most of us who use it have most things set so that only our FB friends can see things. And some people have even more strict settings. I for one don't like/comment on public posts at all.
@manooooh Perhaps saying 'most information' is too strong, since there's obviously tons of public posts around. But I see mainly what (some subset of) my friends post, and a very few things that I choose to have fed to me. Of course if you 'like' tons of public pages, they will feed you stuff too.
 
@AlanMunn that's right, we can see that every day there are tons of public post around, but... what happens with the hidden information? It is more or less? We do not know
 
 
2 hours later…
7:25 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle did you see on the context list the announcement about the upcoming beta and the new context variant?
 
@UlrikeFischer Hadn't read it: doing so now
@UlrikeFischer Hans has noticed they need a stable version?
 
@UlrikeFischer Better now?
 
@StefanKottwitz yes.
 
@UlrikeFischer Memory was low and the server was already swapping.
 
@UlrikeFischer Did you get what lmtx stands for? l=lua?
 
7:32 PM
@mickep I guess so
@mickep 'Lua Maintenance TeX' perhaps?
 
@JosephWright But mtx? Yes, maybe.
 
@JosephWright I don't really understand what it is about (and what is (if there is) the difference between "use luatex" and "runs luatex")
 
@UlrikeFischer I think the stability business ...
 
@mickep perhaps this "metatex" mentioned lately.
 
The thread about new stuff in MetaPost/MetaFun/Graphics could be interesting, though.
@UlrikeFischer This?
 
Oh, I see.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:31 PM
@UlrikeFischer obviously I read and studied the documentation at great depth
@ChristianHupfer good evening, lurking here again for old time's sake?
 
@DavidCarlisle ;-)
 
9:47 PM
@DavidCarlisle Good evening to you too... I would not use the term 'lurking' ... Sometimes it is just clicking at the wrong position ... or not logging out...
 
9:57 PM
Nov 10 '15 at 17:18, by egreg
@DavidCarlisle Excuses, excuses.
 

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