12:01 AM
@marmot Of course, and in fact that's one of the particular properties of belief contexts generally. But what I'm saying is that as scientists we don't go about our work thinking everything we do is false, but instead we assume it's true and then work to both support and disconfirm it. And in this respect the formal notion of truth isn't particularly helpful.

@AlanMunn True ;-)

@marmot Whew. Time for dinner. :)
3
@marmot ^^^ :)

1:08 AM
@barbarabeeton @mickep @samcarter More tail-wagging marmots ;-)
2

4 hours later…
4:38 AM
@barbarabeeton OMG!

5:03 AM
2

1 hour later…
6:13 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ah, right
@UlrikeFischer Do we need 15? Isn't just suppressing PTEX.FileName enough? (Plus PTEX.FullBanner, which is already done by regression-test.tex)

@marmot Nice! I like also the green side on this one.

6:54 AM
@JosephWright I don't know yet, it was too late yesterday. I will check today.

7:14 AM
@UlrikeFischer Cool

1 hour later…
8:17 AM
@DavidCarlisle, @egreg As Bruno is busy, I guess I should put some ideas together for the peek business

9:06 AM

9:17 AM
@JosephWright There is something curious going on. In one document I have a fullbanner even if I set the value to 3. Will have to minimize ...

@UlrikeFischer Ooh, odd

@JosephWright It was the graphic (which explains why it said texlive 2017 ;-)). One can suppress it with bit 8, but it is probably not needed -- the graphic should be the same on both systems.

Image to LaTeX mathpix.com

9:42 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ah right: I think I'd rather keep that data, as you say

10:01 AM
@JosephWright I found a problem with the new -H behaviour: I did run the check, this involved three configs, in the first there was a failure but the fc-file wasn't in the test folder as l3build seemed to have cleaned up when doing the other config.

10:12 AM
@DavidCarlisle YES! <3

@PauloCereda oh the duck is there ;-). You were missed: tail-wagging marmots are taking over.

@PauloCereda End of the world as we know it:(
Apr 11 at 13:01, by TeXnician
@PauloCereda Have you finished the arara 4 manual?

@UlrikeFischer ooh
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle YES! <3

@PauloCereda oh no, now what can I do?

@DavidCarlisle Let's keep the never-ending thesis thing going on. :)

10:17 AM
@PauloCereda good plan, give 'em a week to forget then I'll ask again.

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@PauloCereda did you like the photograph of the menu board?

@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@DavidCarlisle Have a look at his profile, you'll find enough questions like "Have you finished [dandelion/ArTeXmis/learning LaTeX3/…]?" :)
@PauloCereda Btw: Your profile is not quite up-to-date, attending a TUG conference is still a todo there…

@TeXnician oh no
@TeXnician oh no
/quacks in despair
@DavidCarlisle: you could poke me about l3build which will make @JosephWright happy
By the way, @JosephWright is a real duck

10:26 AM
Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

@DavidCarlisle oh

@PauloCereda much tastier than the plastic ones

@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle He is a tall duck.
Paulo: Joseph, you are really tall.
Joseph: I want to consider myself as normal size, and consider you all short.
^^ This happened at a breakfast

@PauloCereda finished artexmis?
@PauloCereda @JosephWright's reply seems reasonable to me.

@JosephWright the pdftex passed with suppressinfo = 3. luatex failed: The format of creation date is different on my system from the one generated by travis. (D:20160520110000+02'00') <-> (D:20160520110000Z). And I had to set the trailerid. - and now it still fails due to a difference in the font count ;-(.

10:32 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@TeXnician ^^
@DavidCarlisle :)

@PauloCereda Btw: You got mail.

@TeXnician you are mean. :)
@TeXnician ooh hold on

@PauloCereda Well, you should not feel bored after having finished your thesis…

@TeXnician good point. :)

11:02 AM
@marmot :) Maybe they could start walking if the feet are displayed alternately?
@HenriMenke If the program gets expanded to "draw this image for me" they could automatically answer 99% of the questions here :)

@UlrikeFischer That's expected: each config is independent - hence adding the warning

@UlrikeFischer There's no way to tell up-front if configs might interfere with one another
@UlrikeFischer Hmm: I've really only looked at pdfTeX thus-far, I'll see if I can peek at LuaTeX shortly

11:19 AM
@AlanMunn This theory is easy to disprove -- there is at least a third user: konoyonohana.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-488.html

11:49 AM
@JosephWright yes, makes sense.
@JosephWright I now removed the graphic (and graphicx) which seems to introduce a line about color and a font from the test and now the build passed. And I'm considering a new repository called "travis-torture-tests" ;-).

12:05 PM
@UlrikeFischer Hmm, should I suppress the dates and ID entirely? That might make sense, given what you say, at least for the LuaTeX case (which can be picked out as it needs \pdfvariable)
@UlrikeFischer Are you happy with that? I can change the behaviour but it will be non-trivial
@UlrikeFischer We'll likely be working quite a bit on normalisation: once I know what I need to zap, I can sort it from the post-processing

@WillRobertson asked me a really good question in a comment, and I think this might be a better place to discuss it. But I'll make a new room if people here prefer.

@JosephWright Yes, it is ok. But what I would really like is a file with the sum up of the check which doesn't disappear between tests. New results could be prepended.

@UlrikeFischer I've have to think a little about how to pull it off: give me a few days
@UlrikeFischer Probably for the next release: I'd like to fix a few bugs by doing one today (before 5, when I head for the coast on holiday)

@JosephWright no hurry. Actually I could do it with a redirection I only need to look up if it was &1> or 1&> or whatever ...

12:25 PM
@UlrikeFischer Can you show the following code to the Bär?
\documentclass{standalone}
\usepackage{tikz}

\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}
%  mitte: x=0.925

% Body %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\fill[brown!70!black] (0.925,0.7) ellipse (0.55 and 0.65);
\fill[brown!50!white] (0.925,0.65) ellipse (0.35 and 0.4);

% Feet %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
\fill[brown!70!black] (1.35,0.25) circle (0.28);
\fill[brown!70!black] (0.50,0.25) circle (0.28);
\fill[brown!50!white] (1.35,0.25) circle (0.17);

12:49 PM
\pdfvariable suppressoptionalinfo \numexpr
0
+   1 % PTEX.Fullbanner
+   2 % PTEX.FileName
+  32 % CreationDate
+  64 % ModDate
\relax

@PauloCereda I confirm, however, I've known this since Darmstadt.

\pdfvariable suppressoptionalinfo \numexpr
0
+   1 % PTEX.Fullbanner
+   2 % PTEX.FileName
+  32 % CreationDate
+  64 % ModDate
\relax
@UlrikeFischer Odd: dates should already be zapped by setting

@Davislor Do as you prefer, maybe a new room would stay more focused.

I think people here are able to handle multiple conversations at a time. (By the way, as a native speaker of English, I'd interpret "Could experts be lenient about the existence of MWEs?" to be either a polite request, a sarcastic complaint, or a neutral question depending on context.)

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright @PauloCereda btw, I'm back in Europe, I visited Amsterdam and now I'm in a train to catch my last flight of this whole journey.

12:54 PM
Anyway, the short version is that I think I would rather have commands like \textsb and texteb than commands like \bolder and \lessbold.

@JosephWright well I did reset the variable to 3 so both settings were overwriten. More interesting is why I got a FileName if you already had 2 in it.

I'm curious what other people have to say, but here's why.

@JosephWright but perhaps I had it only with pdflatex. Did you already use the variable there too?

@Davislor Maybe you should ping the person that should notice it (else it is really hard to follow a conversation).

@TeXnician Good suggestion.

12:57 PM
@UlrikeFischer Ah

@WillRobertson The short version is that I think I would rather have commands like \textsb and texteb than commands like \bolder and \lessbold.
@WillRobertson I'm curious what other people think, but here's why.

@UlrikeFischer Originally I didn't have suppression for the name, now I do

@yo' Welcome back to Europe!

Is it only me or is picture upload broken?

@Davislor and @WillRobertson Just from a non-TeXnical viewpoint I would state that \textbolder and \textlighter are semantically easy to understand and much easier to remember than the whole NFSS. Maybe even better semantic markup would be \textstronger and \textweaker (although it sounds horrible). I would not disagree with the other commands for formatting rather than markup though (\textsb etc).

1:00 PM
@WillRobertson Most of what I've written in LaTeX is math or CS papers. Like (I suspect) most people here, I have a personal stylesheet I've refined over the years, and when I use something else, it's because that's a requirement.

@UlrikeFischer I just got "Failed to upload image, please try again!" when trying.

2 days ago, by Ulrike Fischer

@WillRobertson For those, I've never needed to use more than two font weights in the text. My use case for something like Semibold or Extrabold in a math paper would be that Bold wasn't the right weight. In that case, I would probably want to set the bold math alphabets to match the bold text font, or otherwise, use arrows over my vectors instead of ISO style.

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@PauloCereda I actually want only to sent the link but the system fooled me ;-) (there was a caption below the picture ...)

1:03 PM
@Davislor and @WillRobertson I do not use such a personal stylesheet, because I use LaTeX (including different fonts using fontspec) for anything ranging from letters to technical papers which is for me a very good reason to use semantic markup instead of specific formatting, because I do not want to remember "I use light font in my letters, hence I have to 'shift' from there" or "I use regular font in the manual I am writing and have to know the font weights from there".
And believe me you will need more weights (light and bold) in a long manual than in a CS or math paper if you want to stay in the same font family.

@TeXnician I think we agree? All the specific font loading goes into the stylesheet, including setting \textbf to Semibold, and that allows me to use semantinc markup exclusively in the document.
So, for example, when I need to compile with PDFLaTeX, I can just change the stylesheet.
@TeXnician @WillRobertson And yes, I was getting to the more complex cases.

@Davislor Yes, in this respect we agree, but I understood your first comment as "Don't introduce something like \textbolder or \textlighter". And I think these commands would be handy – at least sometimes.

@WillRobertson I could see myself using a different font weight in, for example, titles and headers. In that case, I probably define a new font family or face, but I also might specifically find it useful to add \ebseries (or something like \ebweight from nfssext-cfr) to the fancyhdr/titlesec/memoir/scrbook command defining my headers.
@WillRobertson That’s not a situation where I’d write \bfseries\bolderseries\selectfont.

@Davislor and @WillRobertson I would still favor a context-aware command like \textbolder or something along these lines, because it is much better for the document. Sometimes I only want to write a document and not a whole stylesheet and even then I do not want to remember which font weight I initially chose, but make LaTeX choose it from the context and my semantic markup.

@WillRobertson I’d be more likely to want to use \emph{} within a title than \strong{} when it’s already bold. One case I could imagine where I might want to is if a title wants to both emphasize something and use italics for a different purpose, such as the title of another work or a foreign phrase.

1:13 PM
@WillRobertson But to come back to your proposal, I do not think that the specification BoldFont=x, BoldFont=y, BoldFont=z is a good way for the user to input the bold fonts. Maybe you should make a simple map for the user like weightorder={light, regular, extrabold} and have a key for every weight available.

@WillRobertson In that use case, I would want to write it as \strong{} and \emph{} within a title that’s already bold, and I think the package supports redefining nested emphasis.
@WillRobertson I could see authors wanting to specify, “The title should be the same font family as the body text, but ExtraBold.”
@WillRobertson I confess, I've also attempted to start a novel in LaTeX.

@TeXnician — the problem there is that I need to allow the user to set font features for specific font faces. (Well, for varying bold shapes it's unlikely but I don't want to design myself into a corner.) I was thinking something like

@WillRobertson It would honestly surprise me to see "They are coming. They are coming," in darker and darker font weights, outside of a children's book. But I could imagine someone like H.P. Lovecraft doing it.

BoldFont=x,
BoldFeatures={...},
BoldFont=y,
BoldFeatures={},
And as part of that I could also have something like BoldSeries=eb so the NFSS series could be specified explicitly

@WillRobertson If I want something like that, I probably want "Four roughly-equal increases in font weight between normal and ExtraBold," rather than, "Whatever the next-bolder weight is."

1:19 PM
ExtraLight=x,
Light=y,
LightFeatures={},
ExtraBold=z,
ExtraBoldFeatures={},
weightorder = {light, extralight, extrabold}
@WillRobertson ^^ That's what I thought of (maximum flexibility due to even weird order of weights which could be triggered by bolder/lighter).
Maybe a default order would make sense though.

Hmm, it's not crazy as long as ExtraLight etc are pre-defined as series keys. E.g.,

\NewFontspecSeries{ExtraLight,Light,ExtraBold}

@WillRobertson So: \textmd{They are coming.} \textsb{They are coming.} \textbf{They are coming.} \texteb{They are coming.} rather than They are coming. \textbolder{They are coming. \textbolder{They are coming. \textbolder{They are coming.}}} Which might end up as ExtraBold, UltraBold, or Demibold.

Oh no, they are coming!

Also, if you add a Medium between Regular and Semibold and a Demibold between Bold and Black, that doesn't mess up the "semantic" markup to mean something different.

1:22 PM
@Davislor — while I want to allow that usage, it's not really the goal. More that I think there is a definite need to specify more than one weight in a style file and then decide later which should be the default and which should be the "bold" one.

@WillRobertson That does not sound too bad. One should map such a series to the NFSS equivalents however.

/quacks in despair and in fontspec

@TeXnician Possibly :) I'm not convinced that all the semi-standard NFSS designations are used enough in practice. But if the old interfaces can be supported, so much the better.

@Davislor But the whole point of semantic markup is to adjust to what you have, so inserting another weight should affect the document. The other way, the formatting markup should of course stay the same.

I haven't thought this through extensively, but maybe it'd look something like this?

1:24 PM
@WillRobertson We could ask the other way around: Have you finished XFSS? :)

@TeXnician I need to be able to dedicate more time to that than I currently have available :(

@WillRobertson I guess that using the "semi-standard" specifications may be the exception, but it's really handy once you need them. And with modern fonts its even more important to make detailed gradations.

\newfontfamily{SomeFont}[ MediumFont = *-Medium , SemiBoldFont = *-Semibold , BoldFont = *-Bold . DemiBoldFont = *-Demibold , ExtraBoldFont = *-ExtraBold , Bfseries = SemiBold ]
@WillRobertson Okay, there's at least one typo in there, but you get the idea.

@PauloCereda Seems the Secret Duck Service knows everything :)

@Davislor While this sounds good, I personally would miss the option to mess up control the order of fonts used. With your version I would get the reversed order by specifying a light font as BoldFont which satisfies semantic markup, but then the mapping to NFSS would be gone and therefore formatting markup would be destroyed.

1:31 PM
@samcarter we are very efficient. :)

@Davislor So have a whole bunch of weights pre-defined, and allow the user to define more? I think this is quite a user-friendly solution, and I hadn't thought about having an extensible set of weights for the keyval keys themselves.
@TeXnician When you say "control the order", we could also have some macros for indicating how progression along a series would work.

@TeXnician In this case, though, I think I either want to specify the exact typeface of my title or graphic, or I want to specify four gradations between Regular and Black, or I want to specify "Something stronger than this text that’s already bold, but distinct from italic."

@PauloCereda And look good in dinner jackets :) chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/45916198#45916198

@WillRobertson the names don't matter much. Nobody prevents you to define a series with name "blackbear" and map it to a heavy font. So a simple alias system should be able to handle semibold versus sb. The main point imho is that you need an order if you want to define bolder and lighter commands.

@WillRobertson That was my point with the weightorder key I mentioned above or what I would have taken your \NewFontspecSeries for. So basically I would suggest using something like @Davislor's key system which maps to NFSS and simply having a command or key for the order which could be used by semantic markup.

1:34 PM
@samcarter ooooooh

@UlrikeFischer Image upload seems to be very unstable today. I had problems earlier, too!

@TeXnician That third case, \strong{This is really \strong{really} important!}, is the one where it might make sense.

@Davislor But maybe some class I can't control (which are more than I could think of) uses a specific NFSS mapping, so I would use the DemiBold key, but usually this font is meant to be a light font, because I write with heavier weight…

@TeXnician @Davislor @UlrikeFischer — thanks all for comments, I think I'm getting a decent idea about how some of the interfaces here could work. Have to run now — good night!

@WillRobertson Good night.

1:37 PM
@TeXnician I think in that case I define a family that defines BoldFont = *-Semibold and FontFace = {sb}{n}{*-Medium}?
Then the semantic markup in that other class works.
@TeXnician But I'm glad to hear other people's opinions. Can you think of a specific use case?

@Davislor Well no, the other class uses formatting markup, because it uses NFSS mappings, and I want to use semantic markup. But basically your idea should work. Probably I simply would have been too lazy for looking up these commands ;)
@Davislor For which point?

@PauloCereda passed the security ... well, with a twist, but passed. On the way from Bocaina, I found a wrench on the road, I picked it up and put in my backpack thinking I'll leave it to you or your dad. However, this never happened, the security at GRU didn't care and now they found it in AMS. However, they even let it through and didn't throw it away.

For using \textbolder in body text rather than \textsb{} or nesting \strong{}?

@yo' ooh! :) A new souvenir, then. :)

@PauloCereda exactly! And with quite a long story :)

1:42 PM
@yo' :D

@TeXnician It'd certainly be useful for defining nested \strong{} to do that.

@Davislor Basically my point is that I simply want to have that option independent of knowing the weight, so \textsb would be formatting markup and not my style for the document. Concerning the nested \strong's this would be an option. But I would miss the opportunity to switch back, e.g. I have a bold heading and want something one level less bold which could be a good use-case for \textlighter.
As example: I want names to be typeset a weight lighter than the "normal" text, so I would define a command \def\myname#1{\textlighter{#1}} which would work in headings and normal text (while this is a definition I do not want to do context-sensitive definitions relying on NFSS on my own).

@samcarter you got mail ...

@TeXnician Right; in standard LaTeX, that's \fontseries{l}\selectfont. You can define a different font family for your headers so that FontFace = {l}{n}{*-Semibold}, but there isn't presently a way to write \strong{My name is \name{Jan Jansen.} I come from Wisconsin,}
@TeXnician So that's a use case.

@Davislor Well, it's not \fontseries{l}, because maybe I use b for the text and want it one weight less, maybe m for quotes and want it one weight less and ub for headings and want it one weight less. And I certainly do not want to change my headings only because one may contain a special command like this name (like \section{My friend \name{The Duck}}, defining a \sectionWithName wouldn't make sense).

1:52 PM
@TeXnician The best way to do that at present is the method packages such as sourcesanspro use.

8

Currently I'm unable to upload an image to everywhere on site: e.g. posts or chat. Is this problem with imgur?

@UlrikeFischer ^^^ we are not alone

That is, they define sourcesansprolight and \sourcesansproheavy (might not be exactly right) that shift all the font weights up or down by one step.

@Davislor Yes, but we are talking about the future, aren't we? And personally I would love if a package like fontspec would ease this kind of definitions. But in this case I'm just a user, so I only try to get my needs across.

@TeXnician So, you could set the font family in your headers to \sourcesansproheavy and write my example by switching the font family.

@TeXnician Sounds good

1:55 PM
@Davislor I don't want to use a specific command from a package I do not even want to include, but I hope to have an option in fontspec in the future which allows me to do this easily. If I wanted I could have the effect today, but sometimes I do not want to write LaTeX code, but simply use LaTeX the way others have designed it (e.g. package authors).

@TeXnician Team discussed things at the TUG meeting

@JosephWright Unfortunately I have missed the live stream of Will talking about fontspec :(

@WillRobertson Also, \lighter and \heavier could coexist pretty well with built-in support for sb, eb, l and so on: when you set the font, the package knows what weights you just defined.

@TeXnician Video is online, but I meant a chat we (Frank, Will, Chris, me) had the day after the meeting

@TeXnician but such a definition is easy: you only need a sequence with the series names and then go left or right.

@JosephWright Oh really? The last time I checked it wasn't there. Thanks. Okay, so a "real" chat discussing these things. What was the result?
@Davislor Thanks for the link, I will definitely watch it.

@TeXnician 'ACTION: Frank/Will' in the notes :)

@TeXnician That's his presentation. I haven't seen what @JosephWright is talking about, either.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, it is. And basically that's what \strong does at the moment if I'm not mistaking (just using a sequence), but I just had the hope that the user would not have to define it in the future (and the whole discussion started talking about a possible fontspec enhancement).

@PauloCereda oh no! I have to take stairs to board the plane! (I would have uploaded a picture, but imgur...)

2:01 PM
@JosephWright I love the conciseness :)

@yo' oh my! :(

@Davislor We talked about it walking by the sea: the only notes are those I wrote for the team
@TeXnician Team meeting notes are very 'focussed': the Secretary prefers it that way ;)

@PauloCereda I'll manage I think, I'll just look pretty funny you know, a sporty guy with a sporty backpack not being able to go one floor down and up :D

@yo' oopsie :D

Also, are there a lot of fonts that don't fit well into the Regular/Medium/Semibold/Bold/Demibold/Extra Bold/Ultra Bold schema? With perhaps some name changes such as Book for Regular, Black for Extra Bold?
More than two weights in between Regular and Bold, more than three heavier than Bold?

2:07 PM
@Davislor, @TeXnician Perhaps mail LaTeX-L with ideas, so they are 'captured'

@Davislor Aliasing sounds more reasonable as most fonts I use do have a Regular weight and only some a Book weight. But the extensible approach which was mentioned previously might be preferable for edge cases.

@Joseph Not familiar, I'm afraid, but I probably want to subscribe?

@JosephWright Maybe if I find the time to do a structured write-up, but perhaps @Davislor will do it faster.

@WillRobertson Oh, while you're here, can I bring up two issues I've had recently? It's a great package, by the way.

@Davislor It's the open list for LaTeX development: you could if you prefer just mail directly to the team (latex-team@latex-project.org)

2:10 PM
@JosephWright point taken :D

@Davislor Sometimes issues of general interest are discussed there. It's quite interesting :)

Or better, \latex_point_taken:D

@yo' Doesn't :D mean Do not use?

@Davislor Yes, you should not use a point that is taken. That's why \latex_take_point:w #1\q_stop probably only eats its argument :)

@yo' Means do not use, unless you are on the team ;)

2:16 PM
Is this something they might be interested in? tex.stackexchange.com/a/444453/61644
We have FakeStretch, FakeBold, FakeSlant in fontspec, why not FakeSmallCaps?

@samcarter Is today "Metropolis day"? ;-)

@WillRobertson Anyway, the first issue I ran into was when I was trying to use the ebgaramond package. The version of EB Garamond 12 that ships with TeX Live 2018 comes only in normal weight, but there's a more complete set of weights on the repo I wanted to use.

@marmot Seems so. It also seems that this theme became very popular in the last few months - more and more questions are using it.

@Davislor Have you also seen the expl3 here: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/64582/…?

@marmot ooh Daily Planet

2:20 PM
@WillRobertson I was thinking at first I could patch it with \defaultfontfeatures[EBGaramond12]{ BoldFont = ... }, but unfortunately, it already defines BoldFont = *-Regular.

@samcarter Need to try it out (or dry it out? ;-)
@PauloCereda Is metropolis a planet?

@WillRobertson And there doesn't seem to be a way to partially redefine a font that's already loaded. So, I have to rewrite essentially the entire package. Granted, maybe that's something the package should fix.

@Davislor Another expl3 fakesc: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/236635/…

@PauloCereda Well, you are most likely right. Even if it is not now, given the speed with which the exoplanet guys discover new planets, it certainly will be very soon.

@TeXnician I don't think I'd seen that one specifically, but I'd seen other solutions that set \footnotesize.

2:22 PM
@marmot I was referencing Superman... :)

@Davislor Well, I just wanted to point you to one of our famous uses who already used l3 for this. However, I didn't compare the answers.

@TeXnician That one has at least two deficiencies. One, ironically, is exactly the same one you were talking about with regard to font weights: it doesn't scale the relative sizes, so it breaks if you use it at any but the default size.
@TeXnician Two, it doesn’t stretch the figures.

@Davislor You are referring to the 236635 currently, aren't you? Or to the other one I linked (64582)?

@TeXnician Also, mine does one or two useful tricks like detecting if the font supports real small caps and falling back on fake only when necessary, and autodetecting the language being used and applying its special rules for capitalization.

@Davislor Well I dislike most of the fakes since they do not work with LuaLaTeX (as far as I remember), so I have only used the non-package fake small caps…

2:26 PM
@TeXnician I can't keep them straight. Absolutely, egreg's a mainstay here who knows a lot more about this than me.
@TeXnician In fact, I took on that project to teach myself expl3.

@Davislor :)

@Davislor Well, he definitely deserves his reputation (don't tell this the other high-rep guy here) :)

@Davislor That's how I ended up writing notes2bib ...

@Davislor That's always a good incentive.

@TeXnician I've learned a lot from his answers! But, once or twice, I've been able to improve on one. :)
@TeXnician And mine certainly could be improved; one major flaw is that formatting commands inside my \ersatzsc don't work, so you can only write \emph{\ersatzsc{foo}}, not \ersatzsc{\emph{foo}}. I'm not exactly sure the best way to fix that, but probably parsing the input and recursion?

2:29 PM
Starts at 4:30

@Davislor Parsing the input? That doesn't sound very robust. Maybe one has to live with some restrictions…

@TeXnician Well, every other text command makes it work somehow. :)

@JosephWright I thought it's :DavidApprovesUsageByEnrico

@Davislor What do you mean with every other text command? Some commands are simply hidden switches and do not work on intermediate boxes.
@Davislor Also just look at the soul package…

@TeXnician I just mean that normally you'd expect to be able to nest \textbf{}, \large{}, \emph{} and so on in any order.

2:34 PM
@yo' More :FrankFeelsEverythingShouldGetAnotherNewNameToo

@TeXnician I ended up not using boxes in the second version; it just calculates a Scale and a Stretch.
@WillRobertson Anyway, the second thing I was thinking about was the part in your talk where you spoke about deprecating the display names and switching to specifying the exact filenames.
@WillRobertson That seems like a step backwards; I'd much rather be able to write \setmainfont{Palatino Nova} and have things Just Work.

@Davislor the first bit of that is easy, it's the second bit that can be hard to do

@WillRobertson So maybe we should consider shipping a bunch of different .fontspec files that allow the font families in the distro to Just Work, and also turn on the font features they support, such as Common/Rare ligatures?
@WillRobertson I’m particularly concerned that a lot of the filenames could change. It seems pretty likely to me that there could someday be an OTF version of DejaVu replacing the TTF one we have now, for instance.
@WillRobertson And that'd break any document that included Extension = .ttf.
@WillRobertson But, if there's a DejaVu Serif.fontspecon CTAN, just update that and everything that had \setmainfont{DejaVu Serif} will keep Just Working.

@UlrikeFischer I've shipped l3build to CTAN: have to see what the next set of bugs are :)
@DavidCarlisle, @PauloCereda I'll try to review the l3build upload stuff whilst away ...

2:51 PM
@JosephWright working on it as well
@JosephWright but my branch will be highly experimental :)

@PauloCereda That's OK
@PauloCereda Great
@PauloCereda I still need to do the 'dynamic tagging' for e.g. biblatex @moewe

@JosephWright ah

3:43 PM
@HenriMenke Processing all posts in the postgres database to re-generate the HTML? Note, TeXwelt is django-templatish with Python below and postgres behind. Do you have experience with it?

2 hours later…
5:20 PM
Sorry for just shouting into the crowd but does anybody know why one cannot upload screen shots any more, and/or when this will be fixed?

@marmot to the chat or to QA?

@Skillmon Main site...

@marmot Do you mean the button in the editor is not working? I usually press C-g and this worked the last time I tried.

@samcarter No, marmots do not post anywhere where the title is "animals lovers" marmots are beings.

5:31 PM
@marmot just tried, the uploading takes some time today (meaning it hasn't finished yet)
@marmot yup, not working, imgur is rejecting...
@marmot perhaps SX hasn't paid the bills.

@Skillmon Yes, and, I found a comment by @egreg that "imgur is experiencing problems" but cannot find the post anymore.
@Skillmon Maybe they have decided to donate to the marmot recovery foundation instead? ;-)

@marmot more likely they ate a huge duck dish :)

@manooooh -- forwarded image of t-shirt to husband (retired systems programmer/security administrator). his comment: "Much too optimistic."
2

@Skillmon Unfortunately you are right, but I would have preferred the donation. ;-)

0

I am using \rotatebox{60}{\textcolor[rgb]{0.45, 0.98, 0.53}{$\vrectangleblack$}} which provides me with the following symbol: https://pasteboard.co/Hy5yYf9.png Although it works for generating the correct symbol on pdf - it gives me the following errors in compiler: Argument of \Hy@tempa has...

5:41 PM
@marmot chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/46077090#46077090 , but there is no reason or official reply either

@samcarter Thanks a lot! You are a true supporter of the marmot species! ;-)

@marmot Because the only thing worse than a question with just an image, is an answer without one... :D
5

6:03 PM
Picture upload seems to work again!

6:38 PM

6:53 PM
@marmot In trying to push me for the limits of my "just do it for me" definition, you're conflating the question of what the definition is with the (implicit) question of whether such a question should be answered or not. I'm sure we can find some questions which are definitionally JDIFM but are in fact reasonable questions, and conversely, questions with unrelated code that don't meet the definition but are clearly JDIFM.
@marmot But code posted in good faith, even if somewhat far removed from the requested image is still better, IMO than no code at all, and therefore not really JDIFM. (And yes, "in good faith" is purely subjective...)

@AlanMunn In agree with all that but would like to add a "in dubio pro reo". ;-)

@marmot I thought you didn't believe in the principle of charity. :P

@AlanMunn I do not believe in its existence. (Plus that is not how charity is defined, is it? ;-)

@marmot Yes, that's more or less what it means in the philosophical context.
@marmot It's a separate meaning from the common use of the word (as in your gifts to marmot saviours).

@AlanMunn You know that gift and the German word "Gift" have the same origin but by now somewhat different meanings? ;-)

7:09 PM
@marmot Well given that they're both Germanic languages I'd hope they have the same origin. But I had no idea that 'Gift' meant 'poison' in German. The meaning in Old English was 'dowry' or payment for a wife or also 'wedding'. This meaning was around in Old Norse. But Old High German has the poison meaning too. So the split is very old.

@AlanMunn No, it is more that Germans used presents to end discussions, I think. ;-) (BTW, the word retained its meaning in the German word "Mitgift", which is the presents that the parents need to give the new husbands family when they get their daughter married. "Mitgift" is usually not poisoned although its literal translation means "with poison". ;-)

Sorry that wasn't quite right. The Old English meaning didn't persist into Middle English, and the modern meaning seems to have come from the Old Norse meaning (which could mean 'gift').
@marmot Although that's a backwards etymology. I.e., Mitgift preserves the non-poison meaning, and only now people think it's literally 'with poison'.
@marmot Sorry that's what you said, basically.
@marmot I wonder how that change happened. It's an interesting cultural effect.

@AlanMunn Not quite because it comes with a different gender. As everyone would have expected, "Mitgift" is female whereas "Gift" is neutral.
@AlanMunn Well, I guess once enough people die after eating presents, the meaning will gradually change. ;-)

@marmot I don't know enough about gender in compound nouns. In Dutch 'gift' is feminine and 'gif(t)' (poison) is neuter. So both seem to exist with the gender distinguishing them.

7:27 PM
@AlanMunn Actually I was joking. Nobody understands German genders. Trees, which you like so much, translates to "der Baum" (male), but a birch tree is "die Birke" (female). Very logical, isn't it?

@marmot No, it was a sensible observation. Of course gender is arbitrary, but looking at gender in the context of etymology is definitely relevant.

@AlanMunn OK, now I understand why that's a science. (Just kidding ;-) (I just know that these genders are one of the greatest challenges when learning that language.)

@marmot And when you're done with that, you can move on to prepositions. :)

@AlanMunn I prefer marmot language. Very logical. ;-)

7:44 PM
@marmot Apparently it's very simple: (golden) marmot calls reflect perceived risk to the marmot: fewer notes in greater perceived risk. They may also encode properties of the individual (sex, age). Just down the road from you. blumsteinlab.eeb.ucla.edu

@AlanMunn Oh yes, I know that link very well. And he does his field work in very close to Aspen, which I really love and where I will be soon. (But I will try to avoid Gothic, not that he puts me in a cage. ;-)

@marmot Well Gothic died out in the 6 c. so it's easy to avoid. :)

@marmot I was talking about the language... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_language

@AlanMunn The language does not try to catch marmots anyway. ;-)

@marmot btw "not that he puts me in a cage" has to be "so that he doesn't put me in a cage".

@AlanMunn Correct. I was just too worried. ;-)

@marmot So you used fewer words. I should have figured that out. :)

8:06 PM
@AlanMunn Precisely. These marmot researchers make me panic. ;-)

@AlanMunn This was interesting. In Norwegian, too, “gift” means “poison”. But “gift” can also be an adjective, and then it means “married”. Many bad jokes were built on this foundation. We also have the word “medgift”, which, like the German “Mitgift”, means “dowry”.

8:25 PM
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@samcarter ^^^^now that upload works again ....

1 hour later…
9:32 PM
@UlrikeFischer Yeah! I hope the Bär will have fun with the tikzbear!

9:43 PM
Sorry for just shouting into the crowd again. If you have a second, could you perhaps kindly check if the link to the image is broken as it is claimed here?

@marmot looks ok here.

@UlrikeFischer Dankeschön!

@marmot Here I get “too many redirections”

No wonder, you are in Italy. ;-)
More seriously: Mille grazie! what should I do, reupload?

@marmot I think it's a problem with Imgur

9:50 PM