TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:28 AM

@samcarter the vote for the best talk at TUG won Paulo for the tikzducks talk.

8

5:57 AM

@UlrikeFischer You're mean! These are not marmots! (are they referring to tourists when they are speaking of invasive species ;-)

Faheem Mitha

6:20 AM

@DavidCarlisle Many other people besides OUP prefer it.

@marmot There seems to be a lot of meanness in this room. :-)

marmot

7:23 AM

@FaheemMitha Yes, the average user is mean ;-)

David Carlisle

8:04 AM

@FaheemMitha it's still illogical and wrong though:-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

8:18 AM

@marmot Hey, you stole my joke! You are mean!

Sep 5 '17 at 15:18, by Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda No, just average.

marmot

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I am certainly not average ;-) and I am sorry, I was not aware of your post...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@marmot Hmm, median, perhaps?

marmot

@HaraldHanche-Olsen No, marmots live at high altitude (but this does not mean we are often high! ;-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@marmot Ah, in the 90th percentile or so … surely, you can't be mean then.

marmot

@HaraldHanche-Olsen There is a much simpler check: load @samcarter's tikzmarmots package and try \marmot[mean]. I'm sure you'll get an error. And @samcarter is not mean, so I guess this won't change ;-)

Skillmon

8:44 AM

@DavidCarlisle It can make things more clear: "There were two prostitutes, Tom and Steve" could mean there are two people, while "There were two prostitutes, Tom, and Steve" are clearly four people.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon not really: you should use a colon not a comma in the first case. and there are clearly too many commas in the second:-)

Skillmon

9:04 AM

@DavidCarlisle so you'd advise me to leave it out in scientific writing (I don't think I'll ever be published in OUP, I'm not sure whether something written by me will ever be published anywhere :)?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

9:22 AM

@Skillmon Usage of the Oxford comma is quite widespread outside of OUP. But there are also many who are strongly opposed to it. If you really want to get into this sort of discussion, I can recommend two books: Mary Norris: Between You & Me: Confession of a Comma Quen; and Lynne Truss: Eats, Shoots and Leaves. Both are highly entertaining.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon wikipedia has a long article on it. Views differ (English Grammar isn't an exact science:-) I deliberately phrased my initial comment to say that it is called the oxford comma as OUP use it, which is true, anything else is likely to be just variable opinions:-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle @HaraldHanche-Olsen I guess I'll use a macro then, which I can turn on and off :)

David Carlisle

9:57 AM

@JosephWright flying back?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Later on (early hours UK time)

@DavidCarlisle Frank, Will and I are going to meet for breakfast and head out for a bit: my flight is not until nearly 10pm today local time, and Will is 5am tomorrow!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright have fun:-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:10 AM

@Skillmon And name it \DavidDoesntLikeTheOxfordComma

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen or \DavidDoesntLike,TheOxfordComma to make things more interesting

@egreg Italians can play golf, it seems.

egreg

10:29 AM

@DavidCarlisle Now we just miss cricket.

Faheem Mitha

10:47 AM

@DavidCarlisle It seems reasonable to me.

TeXnician

106

A: LaTeX vs Word; improvements of LaTeX over the years

This is not about any improvements in (La)TeX. It is only about stability. It is very likely that an article created (and published) in 2000 in LaTeX can be re-used directly today in a volume of "collected works", whereas such an article created at the same time in Word will most likely require...

Some just added capital letters to a post by @barbarabeeton :)

So maybe he has not read her profile…

yo'

@TeXnician right, I rolled back.

David Carlisle

11:14 AM

@FaheemMitha would you write "a, and b" ?

Skillmon

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I thought of \DPCcomma but I guess your name is better.

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle No, I wouldn't.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@TeXnician Heresy!

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha which is common but illogical (not your fault, just English isn't well defined:-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@TeXnician @yo' has fixed it

David Carlisle

11:28 AM

@egreg and football.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle and cheese rolling? (@egreg)

David Carlisle

11:51 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen they need to be able to make cheese first

Joseph Wright

12:10 PM

@DavidCarlisle I have a T-shirt for you ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright :-)

BrainStone

12:44 PM

Hi. I hope someone can help me a little

It's probably me not quite knowing what I do and it's probably very user specific, so I opted to ask here instead of asking a question

My issue is the following:
But right now I can't even seem to add it to the right spot.
I put it in the user install path detailed here: https://miktex.org/kb/texmf-roots
And then refreshed the file name database (as detailed here: https://miktex.org/howto/miktex-console) but when trying to typeset it won't find the cls file
I keep getting the error: `! LaTeX Error: Fileconnectingmedia.cls' not found.`, but I have the file `connectingmedia.cls` in `%AppData%\MiKTeX\2.9\tex\latex\connectingmedia`, as it should be. The path `%AppData%\MiKTeX\2.9` is configured as a TEXMF root dir in MiKTeX

Faheem Mitha

1:07 PM

@BrainStone Sounds like a reasonable question for the site to me.

BrainStone

@FaheemMitha alright. If there isn't a simple answer within an hour or so, I'll post it as a question to the site

Faheem Mitha

@BrainStone Like you, I often wonder if a question is really of sufficient general interest for the site. There is already an awful clutter of trivial questions on all SE sites. But I don't think it really matters.

@DavidCarlisle What's common but illogical? Not thinking a comma is necessary for two, but thinking it is necessary for more than two? I think it's a grouping thing. The idea is to be clear than the n items in the list are separated into their constituent elements (assuming they are). In a list of 2, subgroupings aren't really possible.

To put it in set-theoretic terms, to have non-singleton subsets, a set larger than two elements is required.

At least, that's my off the top of my head take on it. But I'm not a grammarian.

BrainStone

1:28 PM

If someone can help me out: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/442866/…

David Carlisle

@BrainStone you'll need a miktex user, someone will answer at some point

@FaheemMitha but as I said to Skillmon whatever my personal views on whether it is good or bad, it is undoubtedly the case that it is called the oxford comma as it is a not usually used in UK english but is used in the OUP style. As it is a document-specific style choice there can never be a "yes" answer to the question "should there be an oxford comma" you can only say you would like one or would not like one, you can not say there should be one

egreg

2:16 PM

List of Italian cheeses

This is a list of Italian cheeses. Italy is one of the most productive cheese regions, with well over 450 varieties. In terms of raw production volume, Italy is the third largest cheese producer in the European Union, behind France and Germany.See List of Italian DOP cheeses for a list of those Italian cheeses which have Protected Designation of Origin under EU law, together with their areas of origin. == A == Abbamar – Sardinia; a semi-soft cheese made from a mixture of cows’ and sheep’s milk Accasciato – (usually mixed) sheep and cow's milk cheese from Tuscany Acceglio – from Piedmont; a fresh...

@DavidCarlisle Compare with

List of British cheeses

This is a list of cheeses from the United Kingdom. The British Cheese Board states that "there are over 700 named British cheeses produced in the UK." == Blue cheeses == Blue cheese is a general classification of cow's milk, sheep's milk, or goat's milk cheeses that have had cultures of the mould Penicillium added so that the final product is spotted or veined throughout with blue, blue-grey or blue-green mould, and carries a distinct smell, either from that or various specially cultivated bacteria. Bath Blue – overall winner at the World Cheese Awards 2014 held in London. Made by The Bath Soft...

Of course 700 is a gross overestimation.

David Carlisle

2:36 PM

@egreg but they are only good for melting to stick pineapple to a pizza base:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle That's for cheddar

marmot

3:13 PM

@egreg just from the shape of the missing pieces you can tell which cheese is preferred by the marmots ;-)

egreg

3:26 PM

@marmot I had no doubt!

David Carlisle

@egreg OK good for melting and feeding to rodents

barbara beeton

4:19 PM

@marmot -- hmmm. with that blacked-out bit, i read it as "marmosets". smaller than marmots, not burrowing, rather cuddly looking. but none participating in the chat here. (often when being told not to feed some creature, it's because it might bite. but i don't think mico bites; he's much too polite.)

@yo' -- thank you.

marmot

@barbarabeeton Yes, I agree, he wouldn't bite. But according to Wikipedia "Marmoset, from the French marmouset, is of uncertain etymology", so maybe they are afraid to be swallowed by a quantum fluctuation when there are too many of those around. And I stress that we marmots have absolutely nothing to do with them ;-)

barbara beeton

@marmot -- as i said, marmots burrow. marmosets live in trees. (hmmm. it's possible that if someone went into the brazilian "back country", it might be possible to encounter a marmoset. but not a marmot.)

marmot

@barbarabeeton Yes, precisely. And marmots prefer pineapple cake and honey liquor, which these tourists wouldn't have anyway, so this sign would not make any sense for marmots. ;-)

barbara beeton

@egreg -- i have a musical question for you. yesterday evening, we attended a concert. the program consisted of pergolesi's "stabat mater" and vivaldi's "gloria". unfortunately, the singers, especially the soloists but even the chorus, indulged in so much vibrato that the only words i understood in the "stabat mater" were those two words and the final "amen". is heavy vibrato the preferred style for that musical period?

(i do really like to be able to distinguish words, even if i don't understand the language that something is being sung in.)

Faheem Mitha

4:39 PM

@DavidCarlisle I'm not really aware of how much it's used. I don't notice punctuation much. Though when the subject was bought up recently in U&L chat, my first reaction was that the Oxford comma was wrong, but when I tried writing a list myself, I found myself automatically using it.

samcarter

@UlrikeFischer Oh, nice to hear! Paulo really did an excellent job! All praise be his!

@marmot Not everybody agrees with this: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/38978380#38978380 :)

marmot

@samcarter No, @PauloCereda's statement simply reveals that he (not you) is mean...

samcarter

4:55 PM

@marmot I'm sure @PauloCereda has a suitable quote to disprove this theory

manooooh

Hey guys, good afternoon/night. I have one question: suppose we have asked a question and then realized that, with the help of one user, we had to add a comment to the original question, disabling the answer that they have given us (and we have clarified it by editing our question). My question is, would it be nice to open a new question in response to this request? Perhaps this will attract more attention than seeing the edit of a question, but I do not know if it is morally good :).

Please see this question. I really need it to work outside the environment of my computer, but I think it does not attract attention if I edit it.

If you want, you can attach a link explaining this. Thank you!

egreg

@barbarabeeton I don't think vibrato was used extensively in baroque and preclassical era, neither in singing nor in string playing. Maybe as a momentary effect, but not for the whole piece.

TeXnician

5:13 PM

@manooooh Well, meanwhile I can reproduce your problem, but really this seems to be a viewer issue with pdf.js and is definitely independent of sharing it (which way you choose is irrelevant). I guess if you ask a viewer dependent (follow-up) question it will soon get closed…

manooooh

Thank you @TeXnician. What do you mean about "I guess if you ask a viewer dependent (follow-up) question it will soon get closed…"?

Btw, I tested the PDF output uploading it in Google Drive and it fails too :'D. Should I uninstall my Adobe Acrobat and install it again?

TeXnician

@manooooh I mean that I can reproduce your problem with pdf.js, but not with Atril, Okular, Evince and Adobe Reader. So it's probably a problem with a specific viewer, pdf.js , which is widely used, e.g. in modern web browsers. As this is unrelated to TeX it is off-topic for the main site.

@manooooh As I mentioned, it has nothing to do with Acrobat. I guess you are using a browser with an integrated PDF viewer (e.g. Chrome, Firefox, …) which does not make use of Adobe's plugins.

manooooh

@TeXnician I think this is related to TeX because involves one of the packages...

@TeXnician I use this extension of Google Chrome. That's the problem?

David Carlisle

@manooooh I can't see how your edit about uploading can be right. As @TeXnician says what is changed is which pdf viewer you are using, if some do not support the actualtext settings that is an issue with the pdf reader and not really on topic

TeXnician

@manooooh No, it probably involves the PDF output stream and how it is interpreted. As far as I understand the accsupp package it writes the actual text as a suggestion to the reader to use that when selecting/reading out. And pdf.js doesn't seem to follow that.

@manooooh No, because that isn't the viewer. You have to check the viewer preferences (does Chrome open it in a plugin or in its native viewer).

David Carlisle

5:22 PM

@manooooh that plugin doc says it is for converting html to pdf so how is that relevant to tex output?

manooooh

@DavidCarlisle thank you. I assume that my version of Acrobat Reader is wrong. What would be the program that makes this package work correctly?

TeXnician

@manooooh I just searched the pdf.js issues for accessibility implementation and the most posts seem to agree that there is currently no canonical support for that.

David Carlisle

@manooooh ?

manooooh

@DavidCarlisle never mind...

David Carlisle

@manooooh it is rather unusual (for last 10 years or so) to use acrobat reader as a browser plugin. Are you sure you are looking at an acrobat rendered pdf?

manooooh

5:25 PM

@TeXnician OK. I will leave things as they are. Thank you for your time.

@DavidCarlisle you are right, I don't use a acrobat rendered pdf. The description of this extension says "Convert the current web page to an Adobe PDF file (Windows only)"

David Carlisle

5:52 PM

@manooooh so that is definitely not being used for tex output

barbara beeton

6:13 PM

@egreg -- thanks. i wasn't sure, but didn't think the effect would have been intended by the composers.

@marmot -- this one's for you ... npr.org/2018/07/23/630181622/… . quite a nice picture, i think.

marmot

6:34 PM

@barbarabeeton Thanks! (The place is actually not far from Aspen, one of my favorites. ;-)

percusse

6:46 PM

So do we have some links to watch TeXperts and make fun of them?

@PauloCereda I'm looking at you.

!!/videos

!!/allofthem

!!/cricket off

David Carlisle

@percusse no, you could watch live but the videos won't appear until they have been cleaned up and edited (hopefully removing all mention of ducks)

percusse

@DavidCarlisle psmith is also asleep. Dr. Cereda is drowned in post-thesis laziatry syndrome

Faheem Mitha

7:00 PM

@DavidCarlisle I assumed that the star option would correspond to an edge/special case, and the non-star option would correspond to the standard/normal case.

samcarter

7:20 PM

data.stackexchange.com/tex/query/876034/…

^^^ Maybe interesting for @egreg and @DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha yes perhaps but what is special or normal is very much a matter of judgement. technically they do not have to do anything related at all.

@samcarter data.stackexchange.com/tex/query/876034/…

@FaheemMitha for example what is more normal a filled circle or an open one (\circle*) or processing options in the order they are defined or the order they are used (\ProcessOptions*)

samcarter

@DavidCarlisle :)

egreg

7:37 PM

@samcarter 1125863

@samcarter I'd be ahead of @DavidCarlisle even if he didn't have rep cap: just 621950. :-P

yo'

8:24 PM

@barbarabeeton you are welcome! (Sorry, I was in downtown Rio for the afternoon)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- i hope you enjoyed your excursion. i liked your comment earlier (maybe even before you left prague) that winter in brazil sounded rather like summer in prague. it's been rather warm here, and rainy the past few days (although summer so far as a whole has been without rain, though humid much of the time). enjoy the rest of your stay -- i'm sure you'll enjoy the falls and the power station.

yo'

@barbarabeeton enjoyed? Quite! Especially the part when I got off the metro at a wrong station and appeared in a not quite touristic quarter; that was slightly scary

barbara beeton

@yo' -- were you exploring on your own, or with companions? (somehow, it always feels safer when one is with somebody, even when totally lost. i've learned to be prepared, and try always to carry a good map, and sometimes a dictionary as well.)

David Carlisle

@yo' I suppose away from the tourist areas the locals all dress as ducks and play cricket? or is my impression of Brazil faulty?

yo'

@barbarabeeton I was alone. The thing is, I knew where I was and had a good idea how to get to better-looking places, but still, I felt like that if I got assaulted, it wouldn't be a surprise

barbara beeton

8:41 PM

@yo' -- well, all's well in the end. to demonstrate that, you're back online. have a good rest of your stay, and a safe trip home. unfortunately, i wasn't able to watch your talk, but i'm looking forward to the writeup and the video.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton know anything about amsthm ? (any back story for recent changes... ?) vvv

github.com/ho-tex/hyperref/issues/66

barbara beeton

8:59 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- the only change to amsthm.sty since march 2015 is the version number. (since it's generated from amsclass.dtx. any change to that -- and there have been a few small ones -- results in a version number increment.) so no, there shouldn't be anything that would affect hyperref interaction. i'll explore. thanks for pointing it out.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton it may be a change to hyperref, report just came in and I haven't had energy to look this evening:-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- i've been otherwise occupied, and haven't really had a chance to check the main question site for nearly a week. away all weekend. (lot of catching up to do. will try to do something useful about it tomorrow.)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton thanks

yo'

9:16 PM

@barbarabeeton "writeup"?

barbara beeton

@yo' -- the "formal" paper for tugboat. you will have one, won't you?

yo'

@barbarabeeton that's a tough question. The thing is, I don't even have any keynotes or slides, and the package is still not quite in a production version

barbara beeton

@yo' -- oh. well, if you finish it up by fall, we'll be glad to get it then. i guess i'll just have to wait for the video.

yo'

@barbarabeeton that's a tough deadline, actually.

(even though it's mostly tutorials, documentation and manual that are missing)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- yeah, i understand. gotta keep the actual journal flow going. infrastructure gets to wait, never mind describing that for somebody else.

time to turn this off and go look for dinner. my chariot awaits.

yo'

9:27 PM

@barbarabeeton oh I should look for something too. Bye for now!

Joseph Wright

9:37 PM

@yo' @barbarabeeton Karl's asked me for one ...

David Carlisle

10:04 PM

@barbarabeeton the OP has closed that hyperref issue...

Zarko

10:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle, thank you give mi link to this chat room. i don't know why recently i don't see it in my browser. i working on mwe which should show my struggle with tabularx. so far i can't reproduce my problem from big table :-(. it seems that something else is wrong. i had to extend it to not so minimal version ...

David Carlisle

@Zarko there is a link in the footer of the main site ^^^

Zarko

@DavidCarlisle, thank you very much for the link

David Carlisle

@Zarko if things give errors at 26 it's normally due to something using \alph counter representation

Zarko

@DavidCarlisle, it seem that will not finish my mwe this night. i will come back today late evening. now i need to sleep, today i should finish lot of work ... by

David Carlisle

@Zarko just ping me here whenever, no rush:-)

Joseph Wright

11:11 PM

@DavidCarlisle Enjoy your action point from TUG2018 ;)

David Carlisle

11:26 PM

@JosephWright ah just seen mail:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Had to do something whilst waiting at the airport ...

@DavidCarlisle You are lucky you didn't get the amsmath one ;)

David Carlisle